For the past few weeks, I have actually been going to other blogs, mostly blogs focused on interracial relationships between black women and white men. I myself am a black woman married to a white man, which is why I have an interest in these blogs. One thing I have noticed increasingly as I have looked at these blogs, is that there is a way more active black female participation in the discussion of these blogs than white men. One blog I have noticed though has a increase in the number of white men participating than others I have been to. The women that writes the blog is a self proclaimed conservative. The white men love her!!!! As you notice my blog is not about interracial relationships, race relations are discussed, but I talk about politics or whatever is on my mind the majority of the time. I curse, have no valuable input and strictly do this for myself. So I am wondering, do white guys who date black women tend to lean toward the conservative/republican gals? Do you as a black woman, have to like Bush and Cheney to get love from a white guy? I know when I get approached by white men in republican dominated Texas, the issue of politics doesn't normally come up in conversation, but the issue of me being married does, and so the conversation lasts maybe five minutes at most and then they go away.
Back in my dating days though, I dated a couple of conservative guys, but for the most part they were more middle of the road. I have had a few ultra conservative guys approach me in the dating days, but it never turned into anything.
I typically have this stereotype that conservative men are the guys that come up to you wanting sex, but not wanting a relationship because it would in their minds alter the course of the world and their families would reject them. I did know a black girl who fooled around with a conservative white guy, and that was indeed his mentality. She was good enough to screw, but not good enough to bring home to mom. Maybe that is why I have that perception?
I also get the perception that being conservative = "more white acting" than if you are a liberal. The kind of black women that would stereotypically like a white man, because she has turned her back on the black community by simply being conservative. Conservative =white, liberal=minority, woman, hippie, or gay. Or she would read this book, and seek out white men. For the love of God don't read this book, unless you are into feeding racism, hating black people, and love stereotypes.
Why is it white guys seem to gravitate, at least in the blogosphere to women who are more conservative than liberal? Are most white men more conservative than liberal? Do they feel conservative black people "act whiter" than the black liberal counterparts? Is it so they can watch Fox News and read Ann Coulter books together?
26 comments:
I am more liberal than my husband. He is fiscally conservative, which I think has to do with the type of work he does and also where he grew up. He however, I think is more middle of the road type of guy. In being a black woman having a relationship with a conservative guy, it all depends on the type of guy.
There are those conservative white men, who believe that racism does not exist, that slavery was not as bad as everyone says, etc., etc., etc. I don't think I would be hanging with or having sexual relations with a man who believed that stuff. I have to much self-respect to resort being with a man like that. However, there are black women that do.
I have also met conservative men, where loving BP (black pu...you know) and a@@ but would not marry a black woman. I have also met liberal men (not often though) who think the same way. It all depends on the man. If a black woman who wants or choses to date interracially, she just has to be aware of these facts. Eventually his true colors will show and run if that is not what you want.
I am not sure that white men who date interracially are more drawn to the more politically conservative black woman. It seems that way sometimes. It could be for numerous reasons, I guess. From reading blogs and message boards, it would seem that way. But in "real" life, I am not sure if that is correct. However, if a white man is more politically conservative I think he would feel more comfortable being with a woman who held his views, as a more liberal man would want to be with a woman who held his views.
I feel like I've been rambling on...I hope that helped though.
Just one more thing...I also think that because there are so few white men who discuss dating/marrying black women on message boards and blogs, there are some that think they can say whatever they want (be it something racist, sexist or classists) and not be called on it. Like we should be thankful that they are there???
I am not sure what the mentality is behind that kind of thinking. I am a member of a couple of boards and visit several blogs, and its crazy what some of the white guys will say. I know they wouldn't say it to black women's faces and it seems safer for them to post it online, I guess.
No matter what race or political ideology of the man you want to date or marry, eventually his true colors will come out.
Conservative white males are very prone to being critical of black people, paricularly black males, and there is likewise a tendency for black females who participate in these IR blogs to be very critical of black males. Thus, white conservative males are more attracted to such blogs despite being less inclined toward serious IR realionships than liberal white males.
Thanks for linking to my blog :). I am a BW and my husband is WM and liberal. I can be myself :) I have noticed that white men who declare themselves republicans or conservatives are not at ease around black woman who are "comfortable" with being black. It's the case even in corporate America. When I first started my last job I had micro braids.They loved me. When they hired me on as full time employee, I took my hair out and wore an afro and there was no love. Three months past and I put my hair in braids again and viola! instant celebrity status.
Why is it white guys seem to gravitate, at least in the blogosphere to women who are more conservative than liberal?"
Well I'm a wm and here is my point of view. I am politically conservative but sociallly liberal. I'm not a fan of Bush but would NEVER consider voting Democrat. Here's why. The democratic party is the self proclaimed party of "Women and Miinorities". Guess who doesn't fall into that category. White males.
While I have no problems dating a BW who is a democrats, it just seems that many democrates harbor subconscious resentment towards white males and I just get tired of feeling like I have to apologize for all of the world's problems.
Often times I feel like I am being talked DOWN to when I am with a girl who is a democrat just because I am white and male. This isn't jut from black democrats though because I get the same thing from white democrats.
Actually, I'm not even a very political person. I don't follow politics closely. I just hate feeling like the weight of the world lies on my shoulders and when I'm with a girl who is a democrat (black or white) it seems like I am always feeling that way, as if I am somehow at fault for everything wrong with the world simply because I'm a white guy.
When I'm with a non-political girl or conservative girl (black or white) I don't get all that extra guilt.
Purple_moonflower123
There are those conservative white men, who believe that racism does not exist, that slavery was not as bad as everyone says, etc., etc., etc. I don't think I would be hanging with or having sexual relations with a man who believed that stuff. I have to much self-respect to resort being with a man like that. However, there are black women that do.
No matter how wrong it is, that is how I see most conservative white men. That they think that black people are still whining about slavery and that there is no racism in this day and age. I could be wrong, but that is my stereotype.
I am not sure what the mentality is behind that kind of thinking. I am a member of a couple of boards and visit several blogs, and its crazy what some of the white guys will say. I know they wouldn't say it to black women's faces and it seems safer for them to post it online, I guess.
The internet makes everyone brave and they feel they can say anything, it is really quite annoying sometimes, but it is a reality I have to deal with :)
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Todd
Conservative white males are very prone to being critical of black people, paricularly black males, and there is likewise a tendency for black females who participate in these IR blogs to be very critical of black males.
I agree sometimes there is a tendency for SOME black women to be critical of black men based upon their experiences with dating and being around black males. I personally don't like to group black men into some group to be villified to justify my preference for my husband. I know there is also some white men who have perceptions of black people that are less than stellar.
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Ms.ABC
Thanks for linking to my blog :). I am a BW and my husband is WM and liberal. I can be myself :) I have noticed that white men who declare themselves republicans or conservatives are not at ease around black woman who are "comfortable" with being black.
You are quite welcome, I sat and read the entire thing in a couple of hours this past weekend, it is an awesome blog. It is very different to have to perspectives of two people in the same relationship. Very genius :)
I agree about conservative white men who in general are uncomfortable about being with a woman comfortable being "black". I dated more conservative men in the past before getting married and I remember those men wanting to change me or having an issue with my natural hair or saying off color remarks. Personally I don't think I could date a ditto head or any fan of Ann Coulter. My husband now loves my hair straight or natural, I have been natural 8 years, and hot iron free since earlier this year and he is fine as long as the hair is not in a ponytail, he hates my ponytail LOL I can say I have never had an off color remark come from his mouth either.
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Sangraneth
The democratic party is the self proclaimed party of "Women and Miinorities". Guess who doesn't fall into that category. White males.
Sangraneth do you feel that party is exclusionary of white males honestly? Most politicians that reflect both the democrat and republican parties are white males, not women and minorities. Remember Strom Thurmond was at one time a democrat.
While I have no problems dating a BW who is a democrats, it just seems that many democrates harbor subconscious resentment towards white males and I just get tired of feeling like I have to apologize for all of the world's problems.
Do you honestly think that, democrats blame white men for all the worlds problems? I personally don't think that. I do however recognize that you, and my husband as a white male have the priviledge of not having to worry about racism, about having an upper hand in corporate america, and have a perceived status in America based upon American history with racism.
"Sangraneth do you feel that party is exclusionary of white males honestly?"
I don't feel that it is exlusionary, but I do feel that the interests of white males will never be catered to by the democrats. I've actually heard the democratic party being referred to as "the party of women and minorities" by democrats themselves. How else am I supposed to take it if members of a party refer to their own party as "the party of women and minorities"? Would you support a party if the members of that party referred to it as "the party of men and non-blacks"? (Sorry, I know it's a stretch, but I had to think of something that excluded only black women. LOL!)
" Most politicians that reflect both the democrat and republican parties are white males, not women and minorities. Remember Strom Thurmond was at one time a democrat."
My oh my, why did I not see this coming. LOL! I did not mean to turn this into a political debate. But the actual color of the politicians themselves mean nothing. You think that because George Bush is a white male that he caters to the needs of white males? George Bush cares only about George Bush. Al Gore cares only about Al Gore. Bill Clinton cares only about Bill Clinton. As a general rule, politicians tend to be corrupt and care only about catering to those that can keep them in power.
Keep in mind that women and minorities make up about 65% of the voting population and could vote in a woman or minority if they truly wanted to. Do you honestly think anything would be different if a black person or woman were voted for president? Trust me, your world won't suddenly turn to roses simply because you "have representation" in the white house.
And to be honest even though I'm not a democrat, I hope Obama becomes the next president. For one, if he's not good, he can't possibly mess things up any more than Bush. For another thing, I get to stop being "the man". Even though my personal life won't change, I can shed the "illusion" that I somehow have power that other people do not. Then "you" guys can feel what it is like to "have power". LOL!
Seriously though, I actually wish that all white males would get voted out of office so everyone can see that corruption is color blind, and at the end of the day it's "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
"I do however recognize that you, and my husband as a white male have the priviledge of not having to worry about racism"
You just made an assumption about me based solely on my race. Isn't that racism? Seriously, you couldn't possbly know what I have to worry about because you don't know me. Anyone can be racist, and everyone has the power to ruin someone else's life as a result of their own racist beliefs.
Anyway, I hope I haven't offended you for giving my opinion. You just asked the question why white males prefer conservative black women over liberal black women. And, while I am certainly not a spokesman for white males, I only know that while I don't PREFER conservative black women over democratic black women, it's just that I often sense a mild form of passive-aggressive hostility towards me from liberals (of all races).
Also, in case your interested, I started a blog and the first couple of posts concern black female representation in the media. You can check it out at:
http://www.sangraneth.blogspot.com
Sangraneth-
You said the democratic party doesn't cater to the interest of white males. What is/are the interest of white males? I always took the democratic party being the party of women and minorities as the democratic party being inclusive of women and minorities. The republican party in my eyes typically does not do this.
"You think that because George Bush is a white male that he caters to the needs of white males? George Bush cares only about George Bush."
Very true politicians look out for themselves first, but I do want to say because George Bush is a white male, he can indeed push an agenda for white males. The reason why is he can relate to white males in general way better than he ever could a black woman. In America we tend to stick to "our own" meaning blacks stay with blacks, whites stay with whites, and while we may have to work together, typically when we are at home or when we socialize we are with people who look like we do. Most of my girlfriends are black women, I have some white female friends, I have some white male friends, but typically if I go out, it is with my black female friends the majority of the time. I think it is because we relate to each other better because we have the shared commonality of being black. I know that sounds horrible but true. Of course too, these same black women can't relate to me because most of them have not dated or married IR.
"Do you honestly think anything would be different if a black person or woman were voted for president?"
No, and with the Bush administration's policies and overall mess they have left in the white house, the next President we get Democrat or Republican will be seen as a failure for not being able to fix the current mess we are in. Look at Jimmy Carter.
"Even though my personal life won't change, I can shed the "illusion" that I somehow have power that other people do not. Then "you" guys can feel what it is like to "have power"."
You do have power that others do not. You just don't know it. You have the advantage of being able to make more money than me, even though I could have more work experience and a higher education level. You can probably go to a wal mart and not have people follow you around to make sure you are not stealing. You probably don't have random white women coming up to you to ask you if you babysit kids. You also have the advantage of getting promotions faster than me on average. White males still run the majority of Fortune 500 companies. If you are to commit a crime you would more than likely get an lower sentence than I would. You power isn't necessarily obvious, but it is there. You don't have to worry about these things on a daily basis because you don't have to. The world goes in your favor, not in mine.
You are right I don't know what you as an individual have to worry about on a daily basis, but as a white male, the statistics state that you don't have to worry about the things I just mentioned.
By the way I am not offended, I enjoy the discussion. Ask my husband I love to "debate" he just calls it arguing though LOL. I will definitely check out your blog, you have some interesting points of views and thoughts.
aid the democratic party doesn't cater to the interest of white males. What is/are the interest of white males? "
What I mean by that is that they have the best interest of women and minorities in mind, but they don't have the best interest in white males in mind. You mentioned that the republican party doesn't include women and minorities. Why do you think this? I can't think of any policy that they promote that does not include women and minorities.
"Very true politicians look out for themselves first, but I do want to say because George Bush is a white male, he can indeed push an agenda for white males. The reason why is he can relate to white males in general way better than he ever could a black woman."
It's true that George Bush CAN push the agenda for white males, but Just because he CAN doesn't mean he WILL. The goal of most politicians (including BUsh) is to retain power. The thing is ANYBODY in power can push an agenda, but the only agenda that those in power have is retaining their own power.
I'll give you an example. Bush campaigned for presidency on the stance that affirmative action is WRONG. Shortly after he became elected he did a flip-flop and stated that sometimes race SHOULD be taken into consideration in certain instances. This is a perfect example of a white male politician (and a REPUBLICAN one at that) pushing the agenda of women and minorities and brushing off the white male population in order to win brownie points with hopes of re-election.
TRUE representation in the government is a politician who shared my IDEAS = not my skin color. I would much rather have a president who shares my ideas, because a president who simply shares my skin color does not necessarily represent ME.
"You do have power that others do not. You just don't know it."
Here's the thing that always comes up when I have these conversations. Usually someone will tell me that I'm not black so I couldn't possibly know what it's like to be black. And they're right. I DON'T know what it's like to be black. But you are not a white male and you don't know what it's like to be a white male (even if you are married to one). Here's the rub. Not only do I not know what it's like to be black, apparently I don't even know what it's like to be WHITE. But somehow you know BOTH. I can't help but take a little offense whenever a black person not only tells me what it's like to be black, but then tells me what it's like to be WHITE. So are white people that stupid? Black people have the capability to know what it's like for Everybody, but white people are so dense we don't know what it's like to be ourselves?
"You have the advantage of being able to make more money than me, even though I could have more work experience and a higher education level. You do have power that others do not. You just don't know it. You have the advantage of being able to make more money than me, even though I could have more work experience and a higher education level."
That's simply not true. Just because white males make more money on AVERAGE does not mean they make more money simply because they are white males. In all businesses, what is the goal? MAKE MONEY. If white males made more money for doing the SAME job, do you think businesses would willingly lose profit by hiring white males?
The current trend of companies hiring illegal immigrants because they do the same job for less is a perfect example. They will hire ANYONE who will work for LESS. If women and minorities actually do the same job as white males but for less money, don't you think companies would hire MORE women and minorities to save money? That's what they do in the case of illegal immigrants so why wouldn't they with women and minorities?
You are basing all of your ideas about me on racial AVERAGES. In other words, you're STEREOTYPING me. I know you would not appreciate it if I were to stereotype you, so why do you feel that I want to be treated that way. This is the type of passive-aggressive mentality that I'm referring to shown by some democrats. I often get labeled with the stereotype of being born with a silver spoon in my mouth, or being pampered, not being compatant at anything and not having to work to achieve anything. In otherwords liberals often stereotype white males as "spoiled brats".
"I enjoy the discussion. Ask my husband I love to "debate" he just calls it arguing though LOL. I will definitely check out your blog, you have some interesting points of views and thoughts."
I enjoy your blog as well. It's good that you and your husband can have healthy disagreements. No two people agree on everything and when you find someone who you can disagree with and still like being with them, that's a good sign. :)
"Why do you think this? I can't think of any policy that they promote that does not include women and minorities."
They have time and time again fought against Affirmative Action. They feel that we live in a racial harmonious world and it isn't needed. Personally that is complete and utter horse pucky in my opinion. When I graduated from college, when I entered the workforce in my job I had to beg for projects, work long hours, and overall fight to move up, whereas my white counterparts were mentored from day one, getting very easy projects, never having to work extra or work on extracurricular projects to get ahead or noticed. People with less work experience, and I can't think of one single reason why these people were mentored so quickly, where as I had to beg to get mentored, except they were white. This was not at some local yocal family owned business. It was a Fortune 500 company in which a lawsuit for racial or gender discrimination was a regular occurrence for them, and they would rather settle these suits, than change.
"Everybody, but white people are so dense we don't know what it's like to be ourselves?"
No, but you have the luxury of not having to think about race every time you get pulled over by a cop, get passed over for a promotion, get followed in a store, etc. The reason I can say I understand the mentality of white people is because I was raised around them. They used to comment on how I was "different than the other blacks", make racist jokes around me because it was ok, ask me stupid questions as if I was the assigned negro representative for their area to tell them how black people are. They are quick to think racism ended with slavery and that blacks should just get over it, ignoring Jim Crow, and the statistical data that indicates for the most part racism still exists. I also ask my husband what his coworkers are willing to say to him, but would never say to me.
"That's simply not true. Just because white males make more money on AVERAGE does not mean they make more money simply because they are white males. In all businesses, what is the goal? MAKE MONEY. If white males made more money for doing the SAME job, do you think businesses would willingly lose profit by hiring white males?"
YES they do. I have a personal example. My father has worked for the same company for over 26 years. About fifteen years ago, my father, along with the five other black people in his position nationwide all received raises and bonuses. The reasoning was a German HR representative, the company my father works for is global, noticed that in my father's division, every single minority and women worker had on average a Phd or Master's degree, more work experience, and made significantly less than their white male counterparts. The white male counterparts made more and on average had only two years of college on average. Why do you think that was overall? All their management was white, and I guess white men deserve more money than women and minorities right? It took them literally years to figure this out. They had to insure they wouldn't get sued so they played nice, put in a committee to cater to women and minorities, and again give my father and his minority and women co-workers raises and a bonus to keep them up with their white male counterparts. So yeah white men in power tend to care for their own a bit more than they would a minority or women and since white men have most positions in big companies this will continue. If they had just paid everyone on the same pay scale they wouldn't have had to do that, but they chose not to, and they finally compensated for it.
"If women and minorities actually do the same job as white males but for less money, don't you think companies would hire MORE women and minorities to save money?"
Companies do it all the time. But they have to protect their own and they need jobs too right? The thing is stats say you make more on average than I ever could, and that when you get the same job I do, you make more. Maybe by default of being a white male you are more worthy of a higher income than me?
"
You are basing all of your ideas about me on racial AVERAGES. In other words, you're STEREOTYPING me. I know you would not appreciate it if I were to stereotype you, so why do you feel that I want to be treated that way."
There is a difference between averages and stereotypes. The stereotypes are I am in welfare, I have three different fathers for the three kids I have, I am uneducated, cannot talk using proper English, and I am prone to commit crime.
If we were to work on averages, I have a high school diploma, have three kids, I am single, and I work full time.
People stereotype me all the time. I have grown used to it. It is the way of the world. I am a nanny to white women's children in their eyes, my husband is too good for me to the point they blatantly hit on him in front of me. I am less intelligent than my white counterparts. Do you know how many times I have gone to work mentioned something in a meeting to have it shot down, and not even 24 hours later a white male will say the same exact thing I said, and it is welcome with open arms. I am not passive aggressive. I am racist, like you, like the majority of Americans. The difference is I admit I am racist. We don't live in a colorblind society. Whites think blacks get everything handed to them, blacks feel whites are the ones with opportunities presented to them. From my experience, I believe whites are given a better chance in live than blacks and other minorities. That is just me. It doesn't matter if facts are presented to white people or not, they want to believe that racism is over and not as bad as the blacks complain about it. That is my racist thought. Your thought is and if I mistaken, please let me know that black women who are liberal are passive aggressive and belittle or preach to white men. I don't hate white men, but my experiences have given me a view of white males that lends me to have racial thought. Like you stereotype democrats as being passive aggressive.
"I enjoy your blog as well. It's good that you and your husband can have healthy disagreements. No two people agree on everything and when you find someone who you can disagree with and still like being with them, that's a good sign. :)"
Thank you. It is a good sign we can disagree and still like each other. But we are opposites through and through. This is embarrassing , but I was kind of a goth girl when I met him, he was wearing fubu and listening to bone thugs in college. I was a vegetarian, he was and is a hard core meat eater, vegetables are like poison to him. He is a home body, I like to go out. But overall even though we were and are(I gave up the goth look, thank god) drastically different, we still worked.
"They have time and time again fought against Affirmative Action. They feel that we live in a racial harmonious world and it isn't needed."
Well, whether or not Affirmative Action is needed is a whole other argument. But sticking to the point I was merely using it to illustrate the fact that just because a politician is a white male doesn't mean that he will cater to white males. When Bush did a flip-flop, that is a perfect example.
"Personally that is complete and utter horse pucky in my opinion. When I graduated from college, when I entered the workforce in my job I had to beg for projects, work long hours, and overall fight to move up, whereas my white counterparts were mentored from day one, getting very easy projects, never having to work extra or work on extracurricular projects to get ahead or noticed. People with less work experience, and I can't think of one single reason why these people were mentored so quickly, where as I had to beg to get mentored, except they were white. This was not at some local yocal family owned business. It was a Fortune 500 company in which a lawsuit for racial or gender discrimination was a regular occurrence for them, and they would rather settle these suits, than change."
Well, that sounds like a legitimate example of racism. Companies that practice that should be sued for their racism.
I respect your personal experiences and understand why you feel the way you do. But I have also had personal example happen to me to support my claim.
I used to work in a foundry that had different size molds ranging from very light to very heavy. The workers who at the furnaces with the big heavy molds get payed the same as the workers who work at the light molds. The whole time I worked there (which was about 2 years) the heavy molds were ALWAYS attended by white males while the light molds were attended by women and minorities. I asked the supervisor about this (who happened to be a white male) and he said the company didn't want to take any chances of being sued, so they had to do this.
I also worked in a factory for a few years. I have a cousin who wanted to work there but there were no job openings. Anyway, there were only a few black people working there, and one of them quit. This of course meant that until the position was filled the rest of us had to work over-time. This also meant that there was now a job opening that my cousin could apply for. It turns out that that my cousin didn't get the job even though he was qualified and even though NOBODY ELSE APPLIED. The problem was the company needed to hire another black person because there was already "too many" white males working there. So not only did my cousin not get the job because of the mere fact that he is a white male, the rest of us had to continue working overtime until a black person applied for the job. Not only is this example of racism blatant, it's even worse because I cannot sue the company because they were merely following affirmative action laws.
"The reason I can say I understand the mentality of white people is because I was raised around them."
I didn't say whether or not you understand the mentality of white people, I said you can't know what it's like to BE white. Simply being raised around them is not the same. By that line of thinking if I was raised around black people I would know what it's like to be black.
"Companies do it all the time. But they have to protect their own and they need jobs too right? "
I think our fundamental disagreement is what is meant by "protecting their own". When I say protecting their own, I'm referring to an individual. An Individual WILL protect his own, meaning himself and his family. When you say "protecting their own" you seem to mean race. You think that they are protecting their race. The problem with that is that a person is not merely an anonymous member of a group, we are individuals. Just because someone is white does not mean they are "my own", and likewise they do not think that way about me.
Yes, business owners "protect their own" by providing for themselves and their family by making as much money as possible. They have no reason to look out for anyone else, especially if it takes away from their bottom-line.
If white people "looked out for their own" in the way you think they do (meaning protecting other white peope) then illegal immigration and outsourcing wouldn't even be issues, would they?
"The thing is stats say you make more on average than I ever could, and that when you get the same job I do, you make more."
First of all your making the mistake of interchanging -me= with "white people" and -you- with black people. I am a white male, but I am not synonymous with "white people". The white race is not some monolithic entity that is a living sentient being, just as the black race, or indeed no race is. We are all individuals. There are some very rich white males and some very poor white males. You have know idea where along that line I am as I don't know where you are. I can't just assume you are the "average" black woman anymore than you can assume I am the "average" white man.
Another thing is that while there IS statistical evidence to support your claim that white males make more ON AVERAGE than others, there is none to support the claim tha white males make more for doing the same job. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist. But there can be empyrical evidense that show racism exists both ways. You have personal experience that shows that white males have an advantage. I have personal examples that show that white males have a disadvantage.
Here is a link to a article that might provide some insight. The topic of the article is why men on average make more money than women. While the reasons listed explain the differences in the average wage between men and women, the points made could also be applied to white white people ON AVERAGE make more money than black people. By the way, for what it's worth, this article was written by a democrate:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/career/20050307a1.asp
"There is a difference between averages and stereotypes. The stereotypes are I am in welfare, I have three different fathers for the three kids I have, I am uneducated, cannot talk using proper English, and I am prone to commit crime."
Stereotypes are based on averages, or at least the popular perception of them. STATISTICALLY speaking, there is a higher rate of black people who have been convicted of a crime than white people, hence the stereotype. STATISTICALLY speaking, children born out of wedlock is more common in the black community than the white community, hense the stereotype of three children by different fathers. STATISTICALLY speaking, black people are less likely to pursue a college degree than white people, hense the stereotype of uneducated.
Don't get me wrong. I am not defending these stereotypes, merely pointing out what they are based on. I hate stereotypes and have for quite sometime invested a large amount of my time and energy on doing away with them and improving race relations. In case you haven't noticed I have not applied any of those, nor any other racial stereotypes to you.
"People stereotype me all the time. I have grown used to it."
I believe you. Let me ask you this. Do you like it? If not, then there is a saying that might apply here: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. While it may be true that other people might stereotype you all the time, keep in mind that - I - have not.
" Like you stereotype democrats as being passive aggressive."
It is quite different to generalize about a voluntary group such as a political party than it is a biological group such as race which is involuntary. A person who is part of a voluntary group has a CHOICE whether or not to be in that group and is usually a part of that group because he or she AGREES with the policies and ideas promoted by that group. Therefore it is fair to assume that a member of a particular political group thinks or feels a particular way, otherwise they would not be a member of that group.
Race, on the other hand is a completely different situation. While one can assume that members of a political party, or other voluntary organization are somewhat on the same page as each other, one cannot make such assumptions about members of a race.
"Thank you. It is a good sign we can disagree and still like each other. But we are opposites through and through. This is embarrassing , but I was kind of a goth girl when I met him, he was wearing fubu and listening to bone thugs in college. I was a vegetarian, he was and is a hard core meat eater, vegetables are like poison to him. He is a home body, I like to go out. But overall even though we were and are(I gave up the goth look, thank god) drastically different, we still worked."
Why is that embarrassing that you used to be a goth girl? Did you just like the goth "look" or did you like the music? If you liked the music, what bands did you like? I actually like some old school goth bands like Fields of the Nefilim and Sisters of Mercy as well as some goth metal like Type O Negative and Moonspell.
I think it depends on what type of white guy your with. I am very liberal, my husband was conservative, however as we were dating he started to turn more liberal & he went from republican to democrat.
I was the first black woman he dated and there were so many "black" & racist issues that he was unaware of till he started dating me, and he became more sensitive to those issues.
I do think most white men are more conservative than liberal.
I don't think conservative black people act more white than black liberals.
And I never watch Fox News, I prefer CNN
wow, I didn't realize politics played such an important role.
I am younger middle aged white man. I am pretty far to the right on my politics, but for the most part I am a Libertarian first. My credentials are pretty simple. A whole lot of tragedy and a whole lot of blessings. No formal education.
I have spent the middle five years of the last decade in the USMC. I have been to war to the point I am sickend by it, but I understand its purpose. I also have been an MMA fighter for the last three. I love my job. I have a biracial daughter who I love dearly and will viciously protect at any cost.
What I hate most is hypocracy. Racial issues on both sides are hypocritical. No one race is superior. The fact is that it comes down to the idividual. We are NOT individually created equal. Liberal bias states that you have to have affirmative action in order to create equality. That goes againt every basic insinct. It completly negates the idea of competition.
CASE IN POINT:
Percy L. Julian was one of the first black chemists. He was around when there was open discrimantion and was indeed turned down by the Dupont corperation. "we didnt know you were a negro" He was chosen later by the Glidden company because he was the best man for the job. Percy made millions for Glidden. Millions which Dupont surly missed out on. This is how racism in the work place is fought. Fierce competition, drive and deturmination. NOT by government intervention. I can site more cases by request, however for the sake of time I will move on.
Another thing I hate is Pride. I have fought a lot of people in competition. How many steriotypes do hear about asian people. the worst beating of my life was at the hands of a japanese man. To this day we are close friends. When your get cut (physical or otherwise) it either makes you bitter or it makes you humble. The people who become bitter are the ones who want revenge. I feel when a person is subjected to persecution or taught that they are being persecuted, its easy to blame. Its hard to be humble. Its hard to look at things from the other side of the board. Why did this thing REALLY happen.
I would really love to go on and I may continue this tomorrow, but I have to go get my daughter from school.
In closing:
a conservative white man who dates a black woman will more likly choose one that is conservative in my opinion because there is more intelectual honesty.
I am younger middle aged white man. I am pretty far to the right on my politics, but for the most part I am a Libertarian first. My credentials are pretty simple. A whole lot of tragedy and a whole lot of blessings. No formal education.
I have spent the middle five years of the last decade in the USMC. I have been to war to the point I am sickend by it, but I understand its purpose. I also have been an MMA fighter for the last three. I love my job. I have a biracial daughter who I love dearly and will viciously protect at any cost.
What I hate most is hypocracy. Racial issues on both sides are hypocritical. No one race is superior. The fact is that it comes down to the idividual. We are NOT individually created equal. Liberal bias states that you have to have affirmative action in order to create equality. That goes againt every basic insinct. It completly negates the idea of competition.
CASE IN POINT:
Percy L. Julian was one of the first black chemists. He was around when there was open discrimantion and was indeed turned down by the Dupont corperation. "we didnt know you were a negro" He was chosen later by the Glidden company because he was the best man for the job. Percy made millions for Glidden. Millions which Dupont surly missed out on. This is how racism in the work place is fought. Fierce competition, drive and deturmination. NOT by government intervention. I can site more cases by request, however for the sake of time I will move on.
Another thing I hate is Pride. I have fought a lot of people in competition. How many steriotypes do hear about asian people. the worst beating of my life was at the hands of a japanese man. To this day we are close friends. When your get cut (physical or otherwise) it either makes you bitter or it makes you humble. The people who become bitter are the ones who want revenge. I feel when a person is subjected to persecution or taught that they are being persecuted, its easy to blame. Its hard to be humble. Its hard to look at things from the other side of the board. Why did this thing REALLY happen.
I would really love to go on and I may continue this tomorrow, but I have to go get my daughter from school.
In closing:
a conservative white man who dates a black woman will more likly choose one that is conservative in my opinion because there is more intelectual honesty.
I am going to ask can you be intellectually honest and a liberal?
Also do you assume that every person in every corporation is open for the best person. Do you not think prejudices and other factors weigh in when it comes to hiring someone, i.e. someone is hired because their father is the president of a company, hiring someone that you went to college with, hiring your friend who is down on their luck.
You also site one example of one man who was able to get ahead in a time of Jim Crowe. My grandmother was a degreed woman who cleaned houses for a living in a time in which degrees were far and few in between. Why do you think that is, do you think she didn't have the skills to make it in the corporate world? That she was scared of competition, or that there was institutionalized racism and sexism that created a barrier for her to get ahead in a corporate world?
Why is that embarrassing that you used to be a goth girl? Did you just like the goth "look" or did you like the music? If you liked the music, what bands did you like? I actually like some old school goth bands like Fields of the Nefilim and Sisters of Mercy as well as some goth metal like Type O Negative and Moonspell.
Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, This Mortal Coil, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Echo and the Bunnymen. High school was depressing and lots of black LOL.
Absolutly there was racism then, and even to this day. I never refuted that. The point I was trying to make was that racism in the work place is its own downfall. You hurt your own growth and prosperity by limiting your work pool. If I only hire from a specific ethnicity, I could be throwing out a prodigy.
OK, another example would be Albert Einstein. Due to the ethnic cleansing of germany starting in 1930 (just prior to WWII) Albert fled to the USA, who then proceded to help push for the atomic bomb, which in turn made a decisive victory for America. (I am not advocting nuclear force, and neither did Einstein. Albert simply did not want Nazi Germany to have the monopoly on nukes) German pride and racism helped to fuel its own demise.
As far as your Grandmother is concerned. May I ask a few questions? Was cleaning houses what she wanted to do? What was her degree in? I know a man very close to me who worked his way up to third from the top of Libby Glass in Toledo OH. Now he is retired in Illinois and because a lack of stimuli he does landscaping and grass cutting to keep busy. In three years time he is now making more than his annual wage at Libby. I am positive your Grandmother was(or is) an awsome person. I generally like senior citizens and typically I learn at least something from each of them. It is entirly possible your Grandmother was the subject of discrimination, racial or gender or both. And the area in which it was occuring.
Louis Armstrong the great jazz musician moved all over america for greener pastures from New Orleans to New York to Chicago back to New York to California. All the while taking care of his adopted mentally retarded son. That takes fortitude. Just like I am sure it took a great deal of fortitude for your grandmother to clean houses for a living knowing in her heart she could do more. I don't pretend to know all the circumstances that your grandmother has been through, and I wouldn't dare to impugn her honor.
A person can be intelectually honest and liberal. example: If a person is a socialist they can be intelectually honest. They believe in the fact we should all work together for the greater good of the society. Sounds great! but never works on a large scale. there is no incentive to work harder people are greedy people lie cheat and steal and there is racism and sexism that thrive in a socialist/communist over government regulated vacuum.... ok this is a whole nother subject for another day. But it is intelectualy honest if its what you truly believe. It becomes disshonest when you force it on someone else...
Post Script: My daughter says hi to everyone. (((waves to the computer)))
"As far as your Grandmother is concerned. May I ask a few questions? Was cleaning houses what she wanted to do? What was her degree in?"
Cleaning houses was not her option, but in the 1950s a divorcee with three kids had very little options in Waco, TX. Her degree was in Nursing. She eventually later in life went nursing, but it took many years for her to get to that point. She basically sacrificed her career for her kids. Unfortunately as of last year, my grandmother has dementia, so it is difficult for me or my family to have a conversation with her like we once did.
PS: Tell your daughter Hello, I am waving back at her :)
PSS: I hope your daughter did not see the tacky booty babe art. Can you tell I have no kids LOL
Don't sweat it. My daughter is still young enough to where modesty hasn't sunk in yet. Its hard just to get her to keep her own clothes on. I think the smiling faces on the dolls would catch her attention before the nudity would. Then she would pull the arms off and chew on them.
Well, here is one white male who is not conservative. I'm not religious, never voted Republican, played in a punk band and protested the war. I guess there are some of us who lean to the left.
"Well, here is one white male who is not conservative. I'm not religious, never voted Republican, played in a punk band and protested the war. I guess there are some of us who lean to the left."
Yeah I guess there are a few of you out there!!! LOL I just sometimes feel, and I think living in Texas has something to do with this, that everyone but me and five other people in the world are conservatives. It is downright frustrating!!!! Of course in defense of Texas, we are our own country, separate from the rest of the US, or so some would like to think :)
My husband on one hand has no interest in politics (gasp, how scary), but he is an atheist. I am more agnostic, leaning towards a Unitarian Universalism lifestyle, and was a Political Science major, yes I LOVE politics. :)
My husband has never voted Republican either. He never voted before me, and I make him vote, I tell him who to vote for. I know bossy :)
I can say I have never played in a punk band, but love punk music, older stuff, I don't know who the new kids are, and I DO NOT consider Greenday punk. I almost punched someone out for making such a ridiculous statement.
black woman lover (strong bm) FYI:WASP as much as they like different they also fear it. Color and culture. Africans and AA have always been conservative before and after slavery. This perception of acting more white (when being conservative) is the issue, I will reiterate, our culture although dismantled (not destroyed) have always been rooted in tradition ie, families, royal families and tribes and kingdoms then to nations. Consider the Ashanti of Ghana the Mali, Igbo of Nigeria, Ethiopia and finally Zulu. Having the ability to have standards for one's civilations is not a white thing. Consider this the US including our people complain about today's hip hop on a daily basis for being putting down majority black women, this opens the opportunity for a todd or sangreth to speak sweet NOTHINGS into a BW ear since their culture is tired of them watching PORN (which puts down majority white). So now a BW has a choice between Uncle Luke R Kelly or Hustle Hugh Heffner. Due to the white washing of Hugh she choses him cause white is right and black with an afro does'nt fit and will not be hired or EQUALLY accepted among its peers. So slap some creme in your hair straigthen like their women see your culture second and become HANNITY'S GREAT AMERICAN DREAM. Just dipped in chocolate. Me I'm not an automaton. I am a BM that is proud and have stood up and won and lost opportunities with my white counter-parts. My family heritage does not walk across a room with its finger up and head low. My mother taught me to hold held high hair twisted or in corporate camo cut. Father taught me never to quit. From this WP know it I am an individual, and defined myself attached to my BW and culture will not not allow either to be disrepected.
I think most women are more lieral than their husbands. I hate generalities. They are usually fiction used in place of fact. First, I fell in love with my black wife before I knew her politics. She is liberal and I don't like politics or politicians.
That may make me antipoitical but not racist. I have supported my wife and children and loved doing it. I'm older, 58, than most of you. My wife and I have been treated with ugliness and disrepect by both blacks and whites during our years together. The only thing that kept us together was our mutual belief in God and our love for each other. If someone can find an ounce of peace and happiness in this world, there will be a self righiteous fool picking them apart.
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