Gandhi is a highly revered person. Known for his love of peace and equality. He is like a Saint, I remember no one in America knew who Gandhi was until Ben Kingsley played him in a movie, and now we are supposed to love him. I decided years ago to read up on Gandhi and one thing I found was that Gandhi initially wasn't all about equality exactly. He was about equality for Indians living in South Africa, not about black people living in South Africa.
"Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness."
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing -and most insulting - to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered and carry with them registration badges."
"Now let us turn our attention to another and entirely unrepresented community - the Indian. He is in striking contrast with the native. While the native has been of little benefit to the State, it owes its prosperity largely to the Indians. While native loafers abound on every side, that species of humanity is almost unknown among Indians here."
"Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian location should be chosen for dumping down all Kaffirs of the town, passes my comprehension. Of course, under my suggestion, the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population, and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen."
Now reading this article, it is a bashing of liberal ideology. I do want to know though, why do we forget Gandhi's racism, but are always quick to remember his fight for equality for his OWN people?
I cannot understand how we treat this man as a hero. In today's modern age Sharpton would have attacked him with a vengeance. CNN would have blasted his comments all over the place and he would have been dismissed as a racist for the most part.
Why do we as people tend to have only two categories of people. Good and Bad? Obviously a lot of people love Gandhi think he is wonderful, but if they actually read the writings of Gandhi, would they be so quick to think of him as a martyr for equality? Obviously he did do good for Indians, in particular Indians of a higher caste. He apparently wasn't into low caste Indians receiving equal treatment either. So was Gandhi an overall good person or an overall bad person?
18 comments:
I've actually heard about this before and it's not too suprising. As a white man, I hear many comments in general about blacks from Indians in San Francisco. Though many Indians can be as dark as Africans, they can just as readily look down upon them, African culture and African American culture.
I think that the surprise about Ghandi is that we tend to think of "people of color" vs. white people. However, you can just as easily face hate and ignorance from a non white as you can from a white person. Just becuase Ghandi loved the Indian people, doesn't mean that love extended to other opressed peoples.
Yeah one of my friends is Indian, we got into a huge fight over the fact that she one said to me I wouldn't understand expectations because I am black, and it is nothing like the expectations of an Indian family. I didn't talk to her for like 3 months after that.
However, you can just as easily face hate and ignorance from a non white as you can from a white person.
That is so true. I know tons of black people who say the most racist things towards Hispanics and I know of Hispanic people who don't like blacks. I dated a guy once who was half Hispanic and his mother had the biggest issue with me being black. It killed her.
He was a sexual abuser of children as well.
Well didn't Gandhi's reputation get bolstered by Martin Luther King, Jr?
ITA about racism from other non-whites. It's often worse. Especially with Indians. I sometimes think they are paranoid about being lumped in with black people because so many of them are very brown.
I don't know some of the Indian guys love the black girls. LOL I swear when I was single at every club I would go to some Indian guy was trying to come up to me. It was so strange, I always thought they liked lighter hued aka white women. It wasn't the American born Indian guys either. It was always the immigrant ones. Of course they probably thought I was a prostitute. I was all dancing like a hoochie at the club. My husband informed me men don't go to clubs to dance...I had no idea.
I love this blog... LOL If you ever really just want to piss off a hindu just ask them ever so ignorantly "Isn't Ganhdhi like your god or somthing?" I'm telling you it hilarious.
Generally Indians are very racial. They dont have a very high opinion of the british either. I like the Penjabis the most though they are pretty cool about things, mostly.
Siddity,
THANK YOU. I like various angles these IR blogs are taking.
@C1, I love your blog though some people may think villagers presence is ruining it.
Any how back to Ghandi. Hmmm. One of my countries expelled Indians. Why do you think that was?
Because Idi Amin was crazy? No. The same thing that was happening in SA was happening in Uganda. A sort of apartheid was forming with Indians being the Upper class while the Africans were being relegated to the bottom. It was a system that was set by the British and had Amin not gone nuts on them, we would be have the same isssues as SA.
Yeah I totally don't get it when I see AAs uniting with other 'people of Color' in their civil rights activities. The worst racism I have received has been from non whites. I believe this push is mainly by black men in the movement with a never ending dispute to settle but not black people as a whole.
We have tens of thousands of African students studying in India because tuition is like 700$ a year. They are treated poorly even by the beggars on the street.
So please black is black anywhere you go. How you deal with it is the issue.
'He was a sexual abuser of children as well.'
Wouldn't surprise me. though they would attribute that to their culture where underage girls are married off.
"Generally Indians are very racial. They dont have a very high opinion of the british either. I like the Penjabis the most though they are pretty cool about things, mostly."
Its their caste system. As for not having a high opinion of the British. I dont know about that. The ones in Britain seem to want everything British. Even the ones in Africa don't shy away from it.
I met an Indian form South Africa who was pro segregation. Imagine that! You are not even on your continent and are a minority.
Where I come from they are not very popular due to that caste mentality. Although they have since slowly returned they are constantly on their toes.
Casper sd: "..."Generally Indians are very racial..."
Copy that!! I know this first hand and know it only too well...
Indians/ SE Asians can be more racial than anyone will ever be.
The caste system is a huge contributer to this. The dark skinned Indians are the lowest in the Caste system in their country and so whenever thay meet a black person they are happy that blacks are universally considered bottom of the barrel and only too eager exert on the blacks what has been exerted on them by other Indians.
Anyway, good post :)
Grata said - "As for not having a high opinion of the British I dont know about that. The ones in Britain seem to want everything British. Even the ones in Africa don't shy away from it."
The two family of Hindu's I am aquainted with, still harbor ill will towards the British from when they were a colony. Not the individual britan but the United Kingdom as a whole. They are a quite prominant family in the U.S. and in India to this day. But then again they still enjoy the game of cricket.
Think a bit about time and the evolution of personal positions. Gandhi arrived in South Africa in 1893, thity five years after Honest Abe Lincoln said he was "not in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races." His prespective of human universality grew over the years. One of the things I most love Malcom for was his willingness to revise his philosophy based on his experiences, and ultimately admit that his anti-white racism was wrong. We are all products of our experience - the relevant character question is "can we grow?".
The caste system is a huge contributer to this. The dark skinned Indians are the lowest in the Caste system in their country and so whenever thay meet a black person they are happy that blacks are universally considered bottom of the barrel and only too eager exert on the blacks what has been exerted on them by other Indians.
I do believe that caste system is the biggest issue. It is like the ones with the racist mindset must continue to have the system, even though it really doesn't exist here. It bothers them that anyone can be seen as an equal.
Think a bit about time and the evolution of personal positions. Gandhi arrived in South Africa in 1893, thity five years after Honest Abe Lincoln said he was "not in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races."
imotep:
But if he saw the injustices of his own people, why would he still continue to view others in the same ignorant light that eh felt the British saw him and indians like him?
I think a lot of Gandhi's admirers elevated him to a god-like status because he brought so much to many mid-century Indians. Later generations apply the godly template to him and discover that he was, lo and behold, a human with human foibles. That's not Gandhi's fault that later generations judge the man by a standard that he can't possibly equal.
However, I recently read Hind Swaraj, his treatise on Indian Home-Rule written in 1909, and I was blown away by it. Anyone, anywhere who feels oppressed by anything or anybody from a national government to a bossy aunt ought to read this little book. It's being recommended, BTW, by the Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile as the one text that all Tibetans in exile should read as they contemplate their very uncertain futures in India and elsewhere.
I'd recommend it too.
Siditty sd : "But if he saw the injustices of his own people, why would he still continue to view others in the same ignorant light that eh felt the British saw him and indians like him?"
I have come to note that most of the time, subconsciously or consciously, an oppressed often becomes an oppressor whenever the chance avails itself.
One has to make a conscious decision not to fall into that (oppressor) category although some do make a conscious decision to oppress others whenever they can just coz they went through it. Sad, but it's the way of the world.
One has to make a conscious decision not to fall into that (oppressor) category although some do make a conscious decision to oppress others whenever they can just coz they went through it. Sad, but it's the way of the world.
This is so true. Instead of saying, "I would never want someone else to be treated the way I was", it's often, "let me hurry up and find someone I can treat like this".
After readying this I am most def going to read up on Ghandi. Thanks for this post.
The sad thing is, I been given the look so often by Indians that when one treats me well I am truly shocked.
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