I am noticing as I get older, I get a bit more vocal and a bit more militant when people say things to me. For instance I was having a "discussion" with someone at another blog who started talking about Affirmative Action as a way to give minorities a free pass without merit or talent and that black people should just get over slavery. I didn't really back down with those statements. I actually thought, typical for a white person. That was obviously a racist thought, not all white people think that way, and hello I am married to a white guy, I really shouldn't think that way. But the older I get my experiences seem to make me more racist. I find it typical for white women in IR to think they are no longer racist and believe what their black men tell them about black women. I guess I get this from things I have read on IR message boards and maybe three white women who have said things similar to this to me in real life. Obviously this isn't all white women. I also get really irked that people in IR typically pretend that they aren't racist because they are in IR. I would say 99% of the people in this world have had a racist thought. I have and if you read this blog you know I love the white guys, and I am black as coal. My husband has had to check me a few times with my thoughts.
Am I racist, yeah I am, but I guess I should work on it and try to decide why I do harbor racist thought. Is it my upbringing? I was born 6 miles from a "sundown town". I grew up in places like Paris, TX, known for their Shaquanda Cotton debacle. The truth of the matter is though I have lived in more than two towns in Texas, I grew up moving all over Texas because of my father's job. Could it be because I grew up the majority my life as one of few blacks where I lived and where I went to school? I was asked the silliest questions about race and told stupid things. I had a friend in high school whose mother liked me because my family had a nice house and didn't live like most blacks who don't work and just loiter. Or grew up with people who didn't believe I lived in the house I lived in because I didn't live in the projects, and they believed that most black people lived in poverty. White people talking ebonics so they can relate to me, or asking me about hip hop or r&b.
I know not all people think this, but I guess my upbringing has either made me more racist, or more weary. Maybe I just lost faith in people. I know I haven't always stereotyped or had expressly racist thought, that I knew to focus on the individual. How does one change, how do you fix racist thought? Can it truly be fixed?
33 comments:
I think it's the weariness of so much exposure to biased if not downright racist people. It's perfectly human to internalize some of your life experiences and create an armor against the most negative, it's hard to discount that impact on your life.
Whether you are becoming more racist or not, I don't know but at least you are self-aware which might lead you to make some positive changes in yourself.Peace
I have so much to say about this but little time. It is my belief that the more one obsesses about race and racism or is racist themselves the further away they get removed from their own humanity and the humanity of others. So it in ones own interest to fight sentiments of racism with in themselves.
Hey, everyone's a little racist, as they say. You seem allot better than most of the black folks blogs that I visit. I'm talkin about people so obesessed with race and whitey hatred that the only person it ends up hurting is them. Think white folks care that they dont like them? Hell no, they don't, that's not you though, so don't worry :)
Mysteredancer:
I definitely am weary. I think I get a little positive about race relations and something scares me back into the same negative mindset. I think the visit to my husband's grandparents set it off this time. I never realized how much they talk about race. It is never about black people, but it makes me wonder if they think the way they do about hispanics, jews, and asians, what do they think about black people? I also think I get angry because my husband doesn't really say anything about it. Like his half brothers used to feel the need to tell me what their biological father would say about me and his relationship with n-word and all and they would ask me the sillest questions (what do chitterlings taste like, why don't you speak ghetto, etc.). I would get offended and he would blow it off as young ignorance because when I first started dating my husband they were only 13. I shouldn't be surprised he never really has been that way when his family had said things, where I am a bit more vocal and will say something to my family.
I had an uncle that kept talking to my husband and calling him "dude" in a surfer voice. I politely cursed him out for it. My new sister/cousin said something about my husband's whiteness a few weeks ago and I corrected her. She is 10 so she did not get a cursing out just a correction and I made her apologize to him even though he didn't seem offended.
Me and my husband are just really different. Maybe I harbor ill will because of that kind of thing? Who knows? I could just be overly sensitive at this point?
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Grata:
In America you can't help but think of race, otherwise we wouldn't have blogs about IR dating and so many people vocal about their opposition to it.
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C1:
I am glad I do not sound like a hard core racist. That would be really bad. I guess I should figure out how to squelch my bad thoughts.
I think we (as a society) will end up more racist than we ever were if we keep obsessing over race. While there are things that we cannot let slide, I think political correctness is taking over our lives and not in a good way. I couldnt decide on when to fight about racist remarks and when to walk away and so now I have just become a dummy (read dont address) as far as racial comments.
I personally would fall in your husband's category. I however used to obsess over race too much as little as 4 years ago. I try to brush off remarks that I think of as deragatory and disparaging. If I didnt stop letting some of these things bother me, I would either be in a psychiatric wing or would have hang myself.
I used to be affected by every stereotype people had about me as an African or me as a black person and I had the worst ulcers and depression 24/7.
While I do take a mental note to what people say and hear their words, I choose to for the most part ignore comments of those who are not an immediate part of my life and those that I truly dont care about.
While race is something that we are constantly reminded of, it's doing us more harm than good.
"Think white folks care that they dont like them? Hell no"
Infact there are some people, probably most, who gain a sense of empowerment or ego boost form being called racist. It gives them a sense of superiotiy, I personally avoid ever calling some out blatantly as a racist because I realize that by doing that I am, in a sick way empowering them and demeaning myself.
That is the thing Soila, this is family the comments won't go away. His grandparents have been saying crazy racist things since I have met them. I don't want to have to dread going to see them because they are going to talk crazy.
Sid sd:
"That is the thing Soila, this is family the comments won't go away. His grandparents have been saying crazy racist things since I have met them. I don't want to have to dread going to see them because they are going to talk crazy."
Sid,
It's sad that it's his family saying the stuff. He should either talk to them or exempt you from going over to a place where you have to be subjected to undue discomfort. You wouldnt sit back and watch your family say humiliating and belittling things to him and if you weren't the type to stand up to your family, I'm sure you'd not expect him to go around them if he has told you he doesnt like the things they say.
Ofcourse it would be uncool for you not to be able to go visit his family but if there's so much agony associated with being around them (even after he's talked to them - I dont know if he has) then you really dont have to go around them. It's sad but dont let people make your life miserable with their words while they sleep well @ night.
Soila:
I think that is where a lot of my anger and not letting go comes from. I have defended him from things said by my crazy family. I wish he would do the same, but he doesn't he just takes it and when we leave he talks about it. He is the shy quiet type though and I am not so shy, that may be the biggest problem.
Sid sd:
"I think that is where a lot of my anger and not letting go comes from. I have defended him from things said by my crazy family. I wish he would do the same, but he doesn't he just takes it and when we leave he talks about it. He is the shy quiet type though and I am not so shy, that may be the biggest problem."
In this case, you are very much entitled to how you feel and I presume everyone else would agree that your anger isn't misplaced. When you feel like your significant other aint standing up for you then it kinda feels like he's taking their side or placing higher value in them by not wanting to beef with them and expecting his wife to understand.
If he's talking to you about it when you leave then it means that he's seeing that what they do is wrong. If he's not going to correct them, then it shouldnt even be brought up when it's only the two of you coz one ends up thinking "why didnt you tell them what you are telling me right now?"
I'm sure your hubby is a nice/loving/caring dude. Just tell him it feels really bad when he doesnt stand up for you (coz it does and I know this).
Hope things change. Smile and dont let other people's ignorance eat you up (as much as this may be hard to do). Stay away from people who dont impact you positively even if it's family.
He knows how I feel about it, but he really, really hates confrontation. I think that is the biggest problem. It has gone on 8 years, it will probably go on forever
You already know my opnions on affirmative action so I'm gonna skip it.
I am going out on a limb here, but I think you have the right to be as racist as you want. Warrented or not. You are entitled to your emotions and opinions.
I dissagree in the fact that you expect your husbands to do the same. I know it feels unfair, but we are individuals. Its unfair to place values on other people based on our own. On the flip side of that coin he needs to understand that he cannot tell you to "calm down" or "Its ok" when you correct your family because in a subtle way that is placing his values on you.
On a personal note I really don't feel your a racist... I think you tend dislike hypocracy and since racism has more than its fair share of hypocracy you tend to gravitate towards it. That and the fact that you are black and married to a white man tends to be a magnet for certain situations that you wouldn't usually be exposed to.
When people annoy me these days, in my head, I think something that could definitely be viewed as racist. Regardless of race. I also use n---a in my head though I don't think I've ever said it out loud. What's odd is that I use it for all men.
Casper sd:
"I dissagree in the fact that you expect your husbands to do the same. I know it feels unfair, but we are individuals. Its unfair to place values on other people based on our own. On the flip side of that coin he needs to understand that he cannot tell you to "calm down" or "Its ok" when you correct your family because in a subtle way that is placing his values on you."
Hmmmm. That's a different way of looking @ it!
"If he's talking to you about it when you leave then it means that he's seeing that what they do is wrong. If he's not going to correct them, then it shouldnt even be brought up when it's only the two of you coz one ends up thinking "why didnt you tell them what you are telling me right now?"
You go therapist Soila!
*doing the running man*
Siddity,
8 years is long enough. Its time for the hubby to bite the bullet. This whole thing is obviously affecting you and though you may not see it right now, it is slowly undermining your relationship by slowly corroding the trust.
So you have to put your foot down so to say and put an end to the psychological torture by either getting him to confront them or to avoid their company and let him know exactly why.
That is the way I would go about it anyway. My peace of mind is paramount.
These peope know exactly what they are doing and the purpose of their acts I believe is to strain your marriage. Their actions sound to me like they are not in absolute agreement with their son's marriage. Its time for you to have a real serious chat on the issue.
I am going out on a limb here, but I think you have the right to be as racist as you want. Warrented or not. You are entitled to your emotions and opinions.
Casper:
But why would you want to be racist? Also take into consideration people who are racist or harbor racist thought are denying people housing and jobs, it no longer just affects them alone, it affects others. To me I don't want that. No one can internalize racism and not have it affect teh decisions they make.
I disagree in the fact that you expect your husbands to do the same. I know it feels unfair, but we are individuals.
I see marriage as a unit. I don't have to have group think, we don't have to be the same, but you gotta back me up on my decisions. I don't let my father talk to him crazy, he shouldn't let his talk to me crazy. He would get mad if I ever cursed out his mother for the times she has called me spoiled. My family is so different. It isn't about shared values, but rather respect. If I started saying crazy ish to his family I am sure we would have a discussion about it.
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Anon:
That is ok, I often call me punk b*tches in my head when they piss me off, I have only said it out loud once though, while drunk in a bar in Mexico when this ugly man kept hitting on me. I am reading a book about feminism and masculinity right now. I have to work on not going below the belt and resorting to such nasty things, even when drunk.
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8 years is long enough. Its time for the hubby to bite the bullet. This whole thing is obviously affecting you and though you may not see it right now, it is slowly undermining your relationship by slowly corroding the trust.
The thing is though the craziness goes on with every family. It does undermine the trust a little because at times I get really resentful.
These peope know exactly what they are doing and the purpose of their acts I believe is to strain your marriage.
Yeah I can see that, but they have never vocally said anything to him or me about it, and I honestly think a lot of it is ignorance on their part. My family is so different. My mother had a big issue with me getting engaged with this guy and she calls him her son. She acts likes she loves him now. My family truly treat us as equals. My parents or grandparents give me something, they give him something. His family on the other hand is completely different. Christmas came this year he got cash from the grandparents, I got his grandmother's freebies from Avon. She claims we were supposed to go shopping, but that never happened. My husband was so sad for me because he knew I got freebie make up that didn't even match my skin tone, he gave me half his cash.
Your right. I should have said you have the right to be as racist or not-racist as you want.
I never said that by internalizing it that it wouldn't affect their decisions. If you don't like the fact that your going down the path of a certain mindset, your the only one who has the power to change it. Why is it you feel your becoming more racist? We ultimatly control our perceptions. Its your choice if you want to perceive things as racist and its your choice on weather you want to become bitter about it. If you don't like becoming racist CHANGE IT before the neural pathways get so engrained you start to like it.
"He would get mad if I ever cursed out his mother for the times she has called me spoiled."
He shouldn't. You have a right to defend yourself. When he gets mad at you for cursing out his mother, you are perfectly justified in your defense when you say to him "If you defended me then I wouldn't have to defend myself" And if he retorts with something like "Its my mother!" or "I don't work like that" or whatever, then you can lay it down anyway you want. Either way the ball is in his court and you have the upper hand. "I have made a decision, I am right by my decision, if you don't like it what are you going to change it" This is where compromise and negotiation comes in. If you want to negotiate you have to make sure that your on level ground before it begins.
Siditty you have every right to be angry with your husband. Frankly, I would never go around the grandparents again, but that's just me. My husband and I have a simple agreement––I deal with my crazy family and he deals with his. We've never had a racial incident, but certainly we've had plenty of other crazy isht where those rules apply.
I can't believe he sits by while his grandparents say racist isht around you. That's absolutely intolerable and I have no idea why you've put up with that crap for 8 years.
My husband is very shy and low-key type of dude. But he will jump all into somebody's ass about racial stuff.
Sid sd:
"I see marriage as a unit. I don't have to have group think, we don't have to be the same, but you gotta back me up on my decisions..."
IS ALL I AM SAYING!
And especially when you are backing each other up on issues that deal with the basic concept of humanity.
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Grata sd:
"These peope know exactly what they are doing and the purpose of their acts I believe is to strain your marriage. Their actions sound to me like they are not in absolute agreement with their son's marriage..."
Sid sd:
"Yeah I can see that, but they have never vocally said anything to him or me about it, and I honestly think a lot of it is ignorance on their part..."
Which goes back to a point that Grata always likes to bring up on topics related to race in America, HUMANITY.
Looks like to them you are a BW and they cant seem to move past the Blackness. When you meet someone, yes you usually see their race and gender first but @ some point it should stop being about the colour of their skin and be about the human being in them.
8 years is a mighty long time for people to still be hang up on race and still be saying crazy racial ish.
It seems like it's a psychological thing that they are doing with your marriage to put a strain on it to a point of no return.
Their son's silence is an indication (to them) that they can keep doing whatever they are doing.
It may be ignorance but truth is, a lot of the people who say the racist things they say know exactly what they are doing.
So when do they plan to stop looking @ you as a BW and start seeing a fellow human being and a family member?
Let me clarify when they say racial stuff, it isn't about me or black people. It is usually about hispanics, asians, jews. This indicates to me that they might talk about blacks too when I am not there.
Sid sd:
"Let me clarify when they say racial stuff, it isn't about me or black people. It is usually about hispanics, asians, jews. This indicates to me that they might talk about blacks too when I am not there."
I agree with you that it still doesnt make it right just coz it's about other people.
That is the weird thing. They act like they like me, they jsut start saying crazy ish about asian people. The sad thing is they I don't think realize what they say. They have this business associate that is from india and they have really bonded with their family, but they ask them crazy questions all the time too. I honestly don't think they know. I also need to note my husband's father is not all there. He has never had to work a day in his life and is completely out of touch with reality. He is like a 50 something Paris Hilton, no real purpose in life.
Sid sd:
"...The sad thing is they I don't think realize what they say..."
Actually I take back the coment I made earlier that most people who end up saying racist stuff know what they are doing.
Some of the people born in a different time and age are still stuck in those times and dont see what's wrong with somethings they may say. It maybe the reason your hubby doesnt bother correcting them. Coz they just wont get what the big deal is. They are from a different time and there's little we can do to change their mentality. I think they people we should attempt to correct (if we even decide to bother to) are people of our generation. We are the generation that's changing the world and so I think it's mainly our generation's mentality that matters so that our kids tomorrow is not the same as ours.
Siditty,
I think it's important that your husband speak up to HIS people (meaning family, not white people) when they are doing something that offends you. Your situation reminds me of 2 things:
1. The plight of Regina in this article. Read it and see how she resolved it.
and 2. another article I can't find written by a black woman and how she could not be with a man who was not race aware or race conscious. It might suit some people to let everything roll of their back, but there's no denying that race matters, race does affect us. I'll get over it when it's over. I couldn't be with a man who felt it would just go away if we pretended racism didn't exist.
Also, how do you cuss someone out politely? "Excuse me, dear sir, would you please be so kind as to eat s*** and die?" LOL!
_________________
Grata,
I don't think most racists feel empowered by being called racist. Usually they will behave in racist ways and say racist things, but protest vigorously at being called racist or bigoted. This is the problem with PC- people have learned it's wrong to be thought a bigot or racist, but it hasn't changed the way anyone thinks/acts.
Check out this piece about aversive racism. After I read it, I finally understood how so many people think they are so open-minded and liberal when they are total bigots.
Side note:
I sometimes wonder if bp are the only ones who get so uncomfortable when people talk about other races? Somehow I just don't think your average Asian person or whathave you would feel paranoid that the person was racist against THEM if they were talking about blacks or another different race. Of course there would be exceptions. I could totally be wrong but I think we tend to feel that way b/c we feel ALL groups are racist against black people and the MOST racist towards us. So of course, "if he hates them , he must REALLY hate us".
I sometimes wonder if bp are the only ones who get so uncomfortable when people talk about other races?
I wonder myself. My husband did say his mother and him used to get uncomfortable when his former step fatehr went on racist tirades.
In terms of the link to the Regina story. I have threatened to do that once, and his reaction was defensive and that I was over reacting. Nothing changed family wise.
Hi Sid, Everyone has given you great food for thought because it seems you're able to dissect the reasons you feel this way...which is a good thing!Here's another little snack for you to nibble on: You can't change how other people say, do or believe, you can only change your situation and your response to it. If his family continues to act in a manner that upsets your peace of mind, then limit your exposure to them. As a honest person, just tell your husband that their comments are uncomfortable...it has a negative affect on you and you would rather not deal with them on any given occasion. This is why I understand how some people do not have constant contact with family members.Personally, I'd rather beat someone else's head against the wall than my own!!
Peace
'The thing is though the craziness goes on with every family".
And you can decide that the craziness stops with you. I come from the Oscar winners of crazy families. At some point you as an individual have to take control and steer your life.
"Let me clarify when they say racial stuff, it isn't about me or black people. It is usually about hispanics, asians, jews. This indicates to me that they might talk about blacks too when I am not there."
Ofcourse they do. No one would believe that they don't trash blacks in your absence.
Those are some miserable people.
"He has never had to work a day in his life and is completely out of touch with reality. He is like a 50 something Paris Hilton, no real purpose in life".
Hah! Fun guy, I can tell.
"They are from a different time and there's little we can do to change their mentality. I think they people we should attempt to correct (if we even decide to bother to) are people of our generation. We are the generation that's changing the world and so I think it's mainly our generation's mentality that matters so that our kids tomorrow is not the same as ours".
If people can hang onto their prejuidces with out affecting anyone directly, I believe that is their right.
However these people's conduct is affecting you. So their racism, known or unknow to themselves has to be delt with by YOU since it is obviously affecting YOU!
"I don't think most racists feel empowered by being called racist. Usually they will behave in racist ways and say racist things, but protest vigorously at being called racist or bigoted".
I can not site any studies right now but on a deeper level a person accused of racism gets a perverse pleasure because in away the accuser has placed them selves in a surbodinate position and the accused in a postion of power thus creating a power dynamic with the accused in a superior postion.
I see this dynamic working in African dominant groups. The more they are accused of being oppressive and tribalistic the more they act it out. It is purely a psychological game. I am sure some psychology expert out there can explain this dynamic better.
From personal experience I have seen non black minorities display pride at being called racist towards blacks. Being in SoCal I am continously exposed to them and have witnessed this behavior numerous times.
I had previously read the article Yan referred to in her comment, and I agree with that article's author completely. I have ended relationships with lovely men who I felt minimized and marginalized the importance race plays in not only our social world, but in our conception of self and identity. While I would never define myself solely as African American, that is certainly an intrinsic component of who I am, and I could not have a partner who failed to acknowledge that, value that, and recognize the impact of that on many aspects of life. I love Grata's sentiments about trying to move closer to both our own humanity and that of others, but for me, humanity is not honored by a society that enshrines inequality, privilege, power differentials, and lack of access to resources and opportunity for many in its very political and social infrastructure. Anyone I allow to share the most intimate aspects of my life must be cognizant of those realities and must value both me and themselves enough to at least address those issues at the most personal level: within the family and in immediate social networks.
As a therapist, I constantly tell clients, as a poster mentioned above, that you cannot change other people, only your response to the input you receive. This is true. However, Siddity, you were 100% right when you said that marriage is a unit and this is about shared respect. You also said it wasn't about shared values, but I would disagree slightly and suggest it is about shared "valuing". A valuing of the totality of your partner's humanity and identity that compels you to protect them, defend them, stand up for them, and recognize that it may be uncomfortable or inopportune at times to do so, but it is an important part of showing your love and honor for that person. No one ever said love was supposed to be easy, and even the most passive person can get engaged over the right issue. Perhaps you and your husband might need to discuss why this issue which is of obvious importance to you doesn't particularly resonate with him, even though it is obviously causing you pain. Even if you had the option of no longer associating with his family, I suspect that would not address the more substantive issue.
You are a trip for laying out your uncle.
You are a trip for laying out your uncle.
My uncle is a toothless alcoholic who doesn't take care of his kids. I have a bit more liberty with him than my other uncles. Plus he was the one coming up to folks crazy LOL
If people can hang onto their prejuidces with out affecting anyone directly, I believe that is their right.
However these people's conduct is affecting you. So their racism, known or unknow to themselves has to be delt with by YOU since it is obviously affecting YOU!
Grata:
Thankfully I only have to see them a few times a year, so maybe I can think on it before the next visit.
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I have ended relationships with lovely men who I felt minimized and marginalized the importance race plays in not only our social world, but in our conception of self and identity. While I would never define myself solely as African American, that is certainly an intrinsic component of who I am, and I could not have a partner who failed to acknowledge that, value that, and recognize the impact of that on many aspects of life.
Winnowill:
In my husband's defense he is becoming more aware, he is probably more aware than most white people. But he is still on a learning curve like we all are.
You also said it wasn't about shared values, but I would disagree slightly and suggest it is about shared "valuing". A valuing of the totality of your partner's humanity and identity that compels you to protect them, defend them, stand up for them, and recognize that it may be uncomfortable or inopportune at times to do so, but it is an important part of showing your love and honor for that person. No one ever said love was supposed to be easy, and even the most passive person can get engaged over the right issue. Perhaps you and your husband might need to discuss why this issue which is of obvious importance to you doesn't particularly resonate with him, even though it is obviously causing you pain. Even if you had the option of no longer associating with his family, I suspect that would not address the more substantive issue.
I have mentioned numerous times my husband's upbringing. His family is very distant and isn't really all that close. I think that is the biggest issue in regards to our relationship. We function and come from totally different families. I had the nuclear family of a father, mother, and brother. He didn't have that at all. His father really wasn't in his life, and his mother, I could write a book on his mother. This is just a part of that issue. We have discussed this before, but he likes to avoid conflict so we drop things easily. He is also a guy, they don't like sharing feelings so I don't push too much :)
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