2008-03-22

Why Black People Dislike Biracials and High Yellow Folks: An Explanation of Colorism Within The Black Community

Let me put a disclaimer on this post. Black people do not really dislike biracial or light skinned people, but rather there is some animosity, in my opinion of the black community when it comes to colorism within that community.



I am going to say this. Black people tend to dislike biracial folks. I say this as I am married to a white man and there is the possibility of having biracial children. I say this having limited exposure to those who are biracial.

Why do blacks hate biracials? A little background.

At one time, biracial people were just black folks. Heck you could be 75% white and only 25% black and still be just black. The shame of having an ounce of black in you, made those who didn't even look black, black.

Back in the day even though these biracials were just black, they were the upper echelon of black society. The black upper class was overwhelmingly those of obvious mixed ancestry. There were light skinned folks using the brown paper bag test to determine marriage partners. There were schools and organizations (The Blue Veins) they discriminated against darker skinned blacks.

That being said since the biracials were considered on top of the totem pole of down trodden blacks you then had the issue envy and jealously. Even to this day there are black men and women who want "high yella" or "redbone" partners, with light eyes, and long, wavy hair. Biracials blacks are considered the ideal, and that does nothing to improve the self esteem of us regular black girls who are of the darker hue, already having to compete with white beauty ideals we can never attain. The rationale is a biracial or light skinned person is closer than we will ever be to the beauty ideals shared by pretty much most people.

Biracials or lighter skin black folks or also seen as less threatening to their white counterparts. I have a friend who is very fair skinned with green eyes who say white people tell her the craziest most racist things about blacks, because they don't feel she is completely black, even though the woman identifies as a black woman.

Now we fast forward to the present society. The concept of biracial folks not being just black is a fairly new phenomenon, I would say the last 30 or 40 years has been the uprising of the struggle of biracial folks. I once heard someone made the point, when it was black women having white men's babies they were just black, but once white women started having black men's babies there was an outcry for them to be identified as other than black. I have met white women like this. They try to quickly identify how their child is not black, be it skin color, eye color, or hair texture. It is like there is a goal to distance themselves from black. I have met black women like this as well. I have heard black women say that black women make biracial babies with more European features than white women do. I have met those who dote on their child's eye color, hair texture, and skin tone. In this distancing of one's self to be less black, there is also a question of when does one stop becoming black and become biracial or multiracial. Most African Americans are of mixed ancestry, at least those of us with slave ancestry here in America.

You then have biracial folks themselves. Some tend to be sheltered from one aspect of their ancestry. You have those who have been immersed in black culture with virtually no contact with white society and vice versa. Since I grew up in predominantly white areas myself, I knew many biracial people who had no connection to being black. I went to school with a biracial girl who was scared to death to let anyone know she had a black father. She was quick to point out she was raised among whites and wanted nothing to do with her father or black people. I will note she was raised by her redneck grandparents, which probably didn't help her cause at all. Or those who wanted to distance themselves so much from blackness, I think if they could pass for white they would.

You also have the other end of the spectrum . I once worked with a woman I assumed to be hispanic or olive complected white woman. For about a year I never really thought of her race, until one day she came up to me and said something about "Sistas Sticking Together". I just looked at her strange, and then finally someone explained her mother was black and she identified as black. She was steady immersed in black culture, identified strongly as black, and I won't say she disliked white people (she was married to a white man), but she would make off the cuff remarks about white people often.

I will make the admission, I am scared my child will end up like Peola Johnson in Imitation of Life. Hating her mother her entire life because she kept spoiling her plans to pass as white. Running away from her mother, saying cruel things, wanting to distance herself from her blackness as much as possible. That and I am scared I will be asked if I am a nanny to my own child. I've made jokes to my husband I intend to make my children lay out in the sun to enhance their natural tans so they appear more black and that they will join the Black Panther Party. Much like Kalinga and his wife's children:

145 comments:

Yanmommasaid said...

That's kind of an inaccurate statement to say black people hate biracial folks, as though that's a universal statement. I think your kids will not try to reject you as long as they get a positive view of blackness FROM you. If you convey that you are ashamed of your blackness or of black people, than your children will pick that up.

Anyway, I've never witnessed more reverse colorism IRL as I have on the IR blogs, with the snotty comments implying that lighter bw are shut out of the dating scene b/c bm they can get ww now and therefore don't need a substitute and wm only desire darker bw. And the whole deal with Kola Boof where all too happy to shove lighter bw out of blackness all together. Pretty ironic considering they would then have to consider the daughters they hoped to have as not being black enough either.

Black identity is a curious thing. It's more state of mind than genetic destiny.

Yanmommasaid said...

P.S. I would LOVE it for someone to make some dumbass comment about how I was my kids nanny. I would make them excruciatingly aware of their own ignorance. "Can't you see she's my daughter? Why would you even think otherwise?"

Yanmommasaid said...
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h sofia said...

Tariq Nelson, an AA Muslim blogger, wrote a post in 2006 about "the new passing" - a phenomenon he describes as "moving away from a white/non-white dichotomy to a black/non-black dichotomy."

This is the "everything/anything BUT black" scenario. It is interesting .... What will happen to the monocultural black American?

I've always identified racially as black, but it's interesting how people have viewed me. I was told by a white (immigrant) friend that I was NOT black. I think because I was raised as a Muslim, and have an Arabic name, and am with a non black man, and speak a little Spanish, and don't go to a "black church," she had it in her head that I was something other than or "more than" black. She even told me, no, "You're Arabic, or Cuban, or something."

When I pressed her for more information, she told me I couldn't be black because I was "too nice" and "black women hate me."

I often worry that people will attribute my niceness and good qualities to my latino heritage or my religious upbringing - I know this happens. I even had a coworker come up to me and say, "You have white ancestry don't you?" When I asked her why, she said because I was pretty and wasn't very dark skinned. ????

It bothers me. People have crazy ideas about black culture and when you don't fit that idea, they will try to find a way to separate you from it. Unfortunately, a lot of black people will try to separate themselves from it, too.

Grata said...

'It bothers me. People have crazy ideas about black culture and when you don't fit that idea, they will try to find a way to separate you from it. Unfortunately, a lot of black people will try to separate themselves from it, too."

People,

Please keep in mind that this is the case in America.

I once referred to myself as black and my then hispanic room mate and he told me I was not black.

Then I happened to lecture some rowdy teenager about disorderly conduct and her defense was that she was black. I told her that I was black too and she said "but you are not a N****R"! I had no reply.


As for biracial people, I wish they could simply be accepted as that. Unfortunately America's history does not let it be.

TBT said...

Controversy!

I like sidz blog 'cause she never shys from opening that can of red, fleshy worms. :o)

"Anyway, I've never witnessed more reverse colorism IRL as I have on the IR blogs, with the snotty comments implying that lighter bw are shut out of the dating scene b/c bm they can get ww now and therefore don't need a substitute and wm only desire darker bw."

I agree. I've read this too. Come to think of it, I've probably said a few insensitive things in regards to you high-yella'z myself.
(I should probably start correcting this by ceasing to use the term "high-yella":)

Grata "I told her that I was black too and she said "but you are not a N****R"! I had no reply."

Whoa. Don't worry. She'll probably be more inclusive when the moment calls for it or when it becomes politically expedient. I'm sure she has that ever-useful "We all ain't nuthin but N****RS to the white man" line tucked in her back pocket somewhere.

That reminds of the AA author Debra Dickerson who made the case Obama was not actually black because his ancestors did not go through American slavery or Jim Crow. I don't remember what she called him, maybe "African-American".

It seems one consistent feature of racial identity is no one knows how to properly articulate it and the criteria is ever shifting. Maybe this actually a good thing. People need to be forced to think beyond racial terms.

Amazing said...

As a "high yellow" women, I hate whenever I read the myth that light skin Black women have it "easier" than dark skin Black women. It's assumed that light skin women just walk out the door and they have to step over loads of men that drop at their feet. This is a topic that comes up a lot in Black Women who date interracially groups,websites,
blogs, etc. As a light skinned Black Women, I am quite shocked at the amount of negative comments regarding light skinned women.

Let me be the first to tell you, I do not believe Black men or men in general, have flocked to me because of my skin color. Just as dark skinned Black Women are called names, so are light skinned Women. "Red Bone", "High Yellow", "Oh, she thinks she's all that cause her skin is light?!" It was assumed that I was stuck up, not "Black enough", or I was prissy because of my skin color.

I read things like, "Black men
only want White women or light skinned Black women." Oh, so light
skinned Black Women have it a lot easier in relationships? Lol.

And yes. I know my children will be biracial. I wouldn't be
surprised if my child did not have any "Black" features. I'm light as
it is and my man is White. My great-grandfather was half-white, but who knows what the finished product will look like. Either way, it doesn't matter. I do not have a complex when it comes to skin color.

Light vs. Dark, Natural vs. Perm, Weave vs. Real, Thick vs. Thin...
Who gives a damn?! I really wonder how the women who make such
distinctions will raise their biracial daughters. Will they teach them that they have it easier? That they won't have to go through name
calling? That Black men will jump over hurdles to date them? That
they won't have to struggle in life simply because of their skin
color? What a logical thing to conclude.

Anonymous said...

I think your kids will not try to reject you as long as they get a positive view of blackness FROM you. If you convey that you are ashamed of your blackness or of black people, than your children will pick that up.

Most biracials who have that sense of superiority usually were raised by a white racist parent. Thank God Barack Obama came into his own to become black and proud. You can raise them to be black and proud but you better make sure that you dont have a white partner who wants to make him feel that he/she is better than other blacks because they have white in them. That is the major reason why they act like that. Halle Berry, Alicia Keys, Barack Obama and other biracials who have pride experienced very positive black influences at an early age. If I have a biracial child they will be black and proud cause we aint havin no "Imitation of life" episodes.

Amazing said...

I've just read your other blogs. They're great and I can relate to a few of them. Especially the one titled "Black People Hate Me".

LaReinaCobre said...

Grata,
True. I haven't lived anywhere other than the US, so I can't comment on how it is in other countries for black folks. I know when I traveled to Cuba (where my father is from), my cousin (old enough to be my uncle) told me that I was "mulatta" which took me aback. I was like, "No, I'm black," and he was like, "oh no, honey, you aren't black; you are mulatta." In cuba, "black" means you literally have dark skin. If you have brown skin you are mulatta.

People (including Cubans) like to say that there is no "race" in Cuba, but after talking to some black Cubans there, they definitely seem to have a different take.

Oh well, I'm getting off topic now.

RockNRollSista said...

In terms of biracial people I think that they should be who ever they think they should be. They are not hurting anyone with their beliefs. Those who choose to think that being black is bad well sucks for them.I don't think being black is bad I think having a fatal disease is bad.

I agree with all u said in the article.

Casper said...
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Yanmommasaid said...

Casper,
Would you be ready to handle a nonracial retort? because I can think of a dozen nonracial quips that would probably cut alot deeper.

In which direction would these quips be flowing? I'd be doubtful that someone dumb and tactless enough to blurt out a racist assumption would have the ability to make a quick and graceful recovery. And, with my avowed non-spawner status, I am not going to be in that situation anyway, but ever the librarian, I did find

a resource of responses to this very situation!

I would definitely go with, "Yes, but I am also f-ing his dad".

TBT,
yeah, drop the high-yella bit. Not every light-skinned bw fits the high yella description anyway. From what I've been reading, that might only be the Jennifer Beals type of bw. Anyways...did you all know that was what 'The Yellow Rose of Texas' was about?!

Casper said...
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Siditty said...

Yan I edited my post so not to cause any more friction to this sensitive subject.

If you convey that you are ashamed of your blackness or of black people, than your children will pick that up.

I most definitely agree with that statement.

Anyway, I've never witnessed more reverse colorism IRL as I have on the IR blogs, with the snotty comments implying that lighter bw are shut out of the dating scene b/c bm they can get ww now and therefore don't need a substitute and wm only desire darker bw.

Yan, that is definitely animosity, resentment, and insecurity. In terms of wm desiring only dark skinned women,I have met white men who dated everything but dark skinned women. If you are lighter skinned you are acceptable, but to be dark skinned, they could never date you.

Black identity is a curious thing. It's more state of mind than genetic destiny.

It is definitely a state of mind.

I knew a woman that happened to, but I also met a white woman who was accused of stealing her child because her child appeared black.

--------


h. sofia:

Thanks for the link. I am looking forward to reading that article. I have a feeling I will agree with the assessment to an extent.

I am starting to hear more and more the usage of "black/non-black" more and more.


When I pressed her for more information, she told me I couldn't be black because I was "too nice" and "black women hate me."


It is so sad that is the perception she received from black people, and that being nice cannot be associated with being black. I think it is sad, but I think many immigrants to this country of all races look down upon American blacks. I think it has something to do with many of the negative stereotypes of black people in the media.

I even had a coworker come up to me and say, "You have white ancestry don't you?" When I asked her why, she said because I was pretty and wasn't very dark skinned. ????

I so hate that sentiment. I have heard from both black and white people that they think I am pretty even for a dark skinned girl. I am just in shock when I hear such stupidity.

People have crazy ideas about black culture and when you don't fit that idea, they will try to find a way to separate you from it.

Most definitely, people have done that to me based upon how I talk and my interests, which I think is really sad, it is like it is expected blacks are one dimensional and incapable of being varied.

--------

It seems one consistent feature of racial identity is no one knows how to properly articulate it and the criteria is ever shifting. Maybe this actually a good thing. People need to be forced to think beyond racial terms.

TBT:

That is exactly the issue. The definition of being black changes continuously. People do need to think beyond racial terms, but I don't think that will ever happen in America.

---------

I hate whenever I read the myth that light skin Black women have it "easier" than dark skin Black women.

Amazing:

I don't think light skinned women have it easier than dark skinned women. But I do know that I have met way more black men blatantly say they would prefer a light skinned woman than I have met black men who prefer darker skinned women. I do know that in the media, it has only been the maybe last decade or so that when black women were seen as beautiful in the media, they could be darker than a brown paper bag. There is a trend in many black TV shows in which the wife is almost always lighter than the husband, and most of the "black kids" were in reality mixed race or biracial.

I think this is where the stupid comments come from, you might not have it easier, but it is perceived you have it easier because in the media and to black men (at least black men in the south), you are the ideal black woman, where as dark skinned women are still considered not as attractive.

I wouldn't be
surprised if my child did not have any "Black" features. I'm light as
it is and my man is White.


I am in the same boat, as with many black Americans. We honestly are many times mixed race. My mother's family is from East Texas and Louisiana, both my great grandmothers on that side of the family were very fair skinned, both with green eyes. I have dark skinned relatives with blue eyes (like the baby Grata and Yan thought were creepy looking LOL). My parents are my shade, but my brother is very fair skinned and he has the hazel eyes to go with it. I honestly thought when I was 8, that all black babies come out white and darkened over time because of my brother. I don't know how I jumped that conclusion, but I did. My dad had to think hard about my brother when he was born because he didn't obviously look as if he had anything to do with my brother's then blonde hair and very fair skin. Of course my dad has red hair, and we have no idea where that came from, as we have no idea if he has any white relatives. My husband is always teasing me, as I tease him about tanning my kids, that for punishment of my teasing him about darkening our kids, that our kids will come out as white as him, and my husband is very pale. LOL

Light vs. Dark, Natural vs. Perm, Weave vs. Real, Thick vs. Thin...
Who gives a damn?! I really wonder how the women who make such
distinctions will raise their biracial daughters. Will they teach them that they have it easier?


I hope not. Of course obviously there is deep seated issues within black women for us to continually have these issues come up time and time again. I used to get the "she think she better than us because she got good hair" nonsense.

Amazing, thanks for reading the other blogs.

---------

Casper:

There is tons of ignorance when it comes to colorism in the black community.I have met black men and women who want to have white spouses so they can have lighter skinned children with "good hair". My cousin did this, and she is excited her two oldest kids are very fair skinned, one with blue eyes, one with green eyes. They really easily could pass as white, except for one whose hair is probably considered more kinky.

Siditty said...

Yan:

I knew about the Yellow Rose of Texas. I remember vividly in 4th grade we did a program in which we sang the song and our teacher chose to put a blonde in a yellow dress, as she thought that the yellow rose of texas was about a blonde woman

Siditty said...

Casper:

Don't encourage TBT, you know he stays crunk. When he gets real riled up is when he starts pissing off folks.

oh and Casper. I am scared of your Obama comment. You are going to get got.






and oh yeah OBAMA '08. Yeah I think I am voting for him LOL

Casper said...
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Casper said...
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Grata said...

"I don't remember what she called him, maybe "African-American"."

I suspect she used American-African. That is normally used to distiguish Africans that naturalize into Americans.

"Whoa. Don't worry. She'll probably be more inclusive when the moment calls for it or when it becomes politically expedient. I'm sure she has that ever-useful "We all ain't nuthin but N****RS to the white man" line tucked in her back pocket somewhere".


LOL! So true.

"(I should probably start correcting this by ceasing to use the term "high-yella":)"

Yeap. Stop already. Colorism in the BC makes my head spin. Even the terms are offensive, high yella, red bone etc.

"People need to be forced to think beyond racial terms".

This is very important. However some other identity has to replace the vacuum left.

Grata said...

"Light vs. Dark, Natural vs. Perm, Weave vs. Real, Thick vs. Thin..."

Natural Vs Weave do not fall into that category simply because a weave is not part of ones natural self. And no philosophical reasoning can change that fact.


"People (including Cubans) like to say that there is no "race" in Cuba, but after talking to some black Cubans there, they definitely seem to have a different take".

Lareina,

Latin America has successfully sold that lie. As long as you are dark skinned and have kinky hair, Expect the same treatment from the rest of the world regardless of location. NEVER buy that lie. How would you explain the fact that in mexico the 1% 'real' black population is not counted in the national census.

If you want to see this condition perfectly played out. Look at Brazil and Colombia. Each of them has a big population of black people. But do you see them in their media? There is a slogan in Colombia, "Be a patriot, kill a N****R". And by this obviously they mean the dark skinned ones.

I think having the one drop rule helped the progress of blacks in this country by increasing their numbers however it messed up the identity of the mixed raced people that would like to identify as such.


"If you are lighter skinned you are acceptable, but to be dark skinned, they could never date you".

I have met one like that but he was a plain racist. It was about who was more acceptable. So I am not sure that this kind is the type anyone would want to date.

I know that in East Africa the WM are ususally in for very dark skin. Alek Wek type. I met afew that referred to light skinned blacks as pale. At the time I didn't understand exactly what they meant but I got it later. I have a lighter complexion back home, so I did not have the ideal tone.
There are particular tribes that have that tone so it is generally accepted that those are the women they date. Interestingly these same tribes are more open to IR while those that tend to have lighter skinned people. They are not that open to IR.
So there may be other factors at play other than the skin tone.

All the WM I knew wanted the much darker girls. So this could be true in some places.

Miriam said...

Casper said:
I have issues with the fact that his policies would destroy the country from the middle class on down.

~~~~~
interesting!

Anonymous said...

As a "high yellow" women, I hate whenever I read the myth that light skin Black women have it "easier" than dark skin Black women. It's assumed that light skin women just walk out the door and they have to step over loads of men that drop at their feet. This is a topic that comes up a lot in Black Women who date interracially groups,websites,


I beg to differ that light women have it so so good. I know soooo many pretty and I do mean pretty light skinned women who are raising babies by themselves and others who are over a certain age and still single. I used to think that light skinned women had it much much easier until I started seeing what I saw. Black women have it rough period.

Anonymous said...

People (including Cubans) like to say that there is no "race" in Cuba, but after talking to some black Cubans there, they definitely seem to have a different take.

Cubans are some of the most racist people around. I have Cuban friends and they are quite interesting.

Anonymous said...

High yellow doesn't mean a thing if your ugly. Physically or otherwise.

HOLLA!

RockNRollSista said...

I don't believe being black is bad. I think that the way people box in black people is bad thus why many biracials do not define themselves as black. We need to broaden the definition end the stereotypes.

CW said...

A White person would only ask "If you're the nanny" only to try and knock BW down a peg or two....There would be no other good reason to ask....Nanny's have been the same color as the kids they sit for...I wonder about getting "those questions" too if i become the mother of a bi-racial child...

roslynholcomb said...

I can't really comment on black folks hating biracials because that hasn't been my experience. I will comment on the idea of folks asking if you're the nanny or looking at you askance with your biracial child. In my particular case the person would have to be blind or particularly obnoxious to say such a thing to me considering that my little guy looks so much it's scary.

Further, even if my child were fairer complected, I have to assume that someone asking such a question is irretrievably ignorant and trying to start some mess. I've lived in Alabama for most of my life and have been seeing biracial or 'mixed' kids all my life. I've never thought to ask a white woman with a clearly black child if she were the nanny, why would I do otherwise with a black woman?

My dh and I had a funny incident back when we first got married. We'd taken some of my nephews out to the mall, and Whit was taking one of them to the bathroom. He was about four at the time, and clearly a black child. A black man walked up to my nephew and asked him what he was doing with that white man. Before Whit could get stupid with him, my nephew piped up, "That ain't no white man, that's my Unca Whit!" The man's concern could've been benign, but I wonder if he would've queried a black child with a white woman in quite that same way?

I see children with parents who look different from them all the time. This is particularly true of Asian children. But I see white people with children of all hues. They could be foster parents, adoptive parents or just friends, neighbors or relatives. Unless the child is in some obvious distress, I'm unlikely to question it. If other folks haven't evolved to this point, that's THEIR problem. America is finally growing up, but we'll always have those stuck in the pre-adolescence of stupidity and bigotry.

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
roslynholcomb said...

Leave it to Casper. Obviously I meant, 'my son looks so much like me, it's scary."

Anonymous said...

I agree that a lot of dark skinned women resent light skinned women because of the black male thing. I remember looking at the new Govenor of NY and his wife thinking "look at these high yella negroes" and I was just basking in their embarassment over the whole infidelity thing. I also wondered if they think they are better than other blacks. I feel so ashamed of thinking this way because I have two really good light skinned girlfriends who would do anything for me and they are very loyal to me. Yes some darker blacks resent but a lot of lighter blacks think that they are better. It is the nature of the beast. As far as light people getting better jobs... any good looking, dark skinned, educated, articulate, black woman can get a good job. Believe me... people are fascinated by a classy, dark, good looking woman. You are like a novelty item. I have never better been treated less than by whites in a job because I was darker. Case in point, on my last job there were only two black women... me and another biracial woman. Now she had that typical biracial woman mentality. She acted like she was all superior and I felt that I had nothing in common with her and I barely talked to her. We were both attractive and the white people made a big deal out of both of us. They always told me I was beautiful and had beautiful skin right in front of her and complimented her in front of me. In fact one thing people dont realize when they say that lighter people have it better is that the wealthiest blacks in America are actually dark skinned blacks. Light skinned blacks are not the most successful. Who are the most famous doctors? lawyers? executives? business owners? They are not light skinned blacks. Darks skinned and brown skinned people do quite well. My only problem with light skinned blacks is that some think they are better.

brownskin said...

I don't think that light skinned women have it easier. However I do believe that there is a hierarchy of beauty amony blacks and it goes like this: 1)biracial women(ideal
black
beauty)
2)light skinned women
3)darkskinned women
I also think facial features play a huge role also. European features are valued over afro features. Some have said that a darksinned woman can move up in the ranks if she has European features. If you have afro features and are darkskinned who have a lot of black people who will consider you to be unnatractive. If you have afro features but you are light skinned you get a pass. If you have European features and are light skinned you are high on the list. If you have European features, light skinned, and "good hair"(biracial) who hit the jackpot. Even thought people may tell you "There are plenty of beautiful darksinned women" they still believe that a beautiful light skinned woman is higher on the beauty scale than a beautiful darkskinned woman no matter what. That is the point that most darkskinned woman try to make that people don't understand. When it comes to me I believe that this hierarchy thing is ridiculous. bw of all skin tones and facial features should have equal oppurtunity in the media. I am still waiting because it has not happen yet.

Grata said...

"I think that the way people box in black people is bad thus why many biracials do not define themselves as black. We need to broaden the definition end the stereotypes".

I don't think broadening the definition of black is the solution. And trying to encompass Biracial people too is unfair on their own identity. It should be left for them to choose.

There is a major problem with identity being forged on skin color. In the entire world, this is only the case with Black America, its a tough one to resolve.

Grata said...

This whole conversation is so bizzare.

lam said...

"My only problem with light skinned blacks is that some think they are better."
______________________________

Well, here we go again.

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
La ~ msviswan said...

Sorry this is so long, I'm in that mood tonight...

First let me say... due to rampant colorism within the BC, I don't see too much lighter skin discrimination in comparison. Yes I have seen darker skin men and women snicker among themselves about "high color" blacks. But even they would hop, skip and jump for that very "high color" black person, before they would do it for another dark skin black person. I've seen it.

I have to admit there was a very dark skin female substitute teacher in my elementary that would punish us differently. This was in the 80's. Medium and dark skin kids would simply stand up in class with the gum on their nose, while the light skin kids would be the only ones to stand up outside in the direct sun. Even as kids we knew what that was about. We would laugh at the lighter kids because now they would be getting darker. Yet, there was another dark skin teacher that would treat all the dark skin kids awful, yet she would treat the lighter ones as pets, and smile when they come up to her.

Another thing, my daughter was born very very light in complexion, straight wavy hair, and with light brown eyes (I'm medium and her father is even darker than I). We all know how genetics work. Anyway, I do remember getting funny looks up until she was about eight (she then began to engage in daily outdoor activities for school, in an all year round sunny region). People would always ask me "what's her father". I would either ignore or tell them "he's" a man. Eventually I got accustom to it. So I always joke, if I had to marry a white male and get a "biracial" child now, it would be a piece of cake for me. However, raising that child regarding identity, that's another topic.


Ok people, I'm being candid here, don't go for my jugular: Sometimes I wonder about people who insist on being called "biracial" and get offended when you refer them as just "black". I also wonder about white mothers in particular who are so adamant about their children being called "biracial" and God forbid just black. For most people I always wonder if it's a hidden cop out to deny blackness. Isn't it possible some black biracials in question thinks promoting a white or non-black parent gives them more "self worth" among blacks, or possible privilege consideration among whites and non-blacks? The same motive goes for some white parents. I often hear them say their black biracial child should not have to deny their white heritage. But I think deep down, many don't want their black biracial child to be denied of white privilege. And, or they want to use it as a separation tactic to "protect" their child from being stereotyped or labeled as other blacks. I don't usually see white parents get so defensive when the child is mix with other minorities, especially Asian. Just my opinion. I could only say this is a very emotionally loaded topic for me. I realize this also has a lot to do with the amount of melanin, the maternal background, and the type of societal environment a black biracial child is living in. In my opi.

Yanmommasaid said...

Grata,

There is a major problem with identity being forged on skin color. In the entire world, this is only the case with Black America, its a tough one to resolve.


I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. Is it that black Americans are the only sticking to racial classifications? Wherever I go in this world, no matter what I choose to call or think of myself, I will be identified as black. Same for the whites, yellows (Asians), reds(Indians), and browns (Hispanics). This identification based on race is NOT unique to black Americans, and hardly did we create these distinctions.
__________________
La,

But I think deep down, many don't want their black biracial child to be denied of white privilege. And, or they want to use it as a separation tactic to "protect" their child from being stereotyped or labeled as other blacks. I don't usually see white parents get so defensive when the child is mix with other minorities, especially Asian.

That's an excellent point. I have noticed that as well. But it seems a some biracial children of all backgrounds struggle with their identity and have a sort of "I was almost white" sort of angst over it. Like Jessica Alba and her famous comments like "My grandfather...He tried to forget his Mexican roots, because he never wanted his kids to be made to feel different in America. He and my grandmother didn’t speak Spanish to their children. Now, as a third-generation American, I feel as if I have finally cut loose."

I think that some self-hating minorities marry white people in the attempt to escape their own race and delight in the relative whiteness of their offspring. So I'm not really surprised that a half-black, half-Asian, Half-Hispanic, etc kid growing up with a parent who didn't want to be that race him/herself would want to identify with that race as little as possible.

classical one said...

" I also wonder about white mothers in particular who are so adamant about their children being called "biracial" and God forbid just black."

These are people who more than likely want their children to identify with them as well as their black parent. Some people feel that if a child identifies as just black they are essentially distancing themselves from the other parent and their heritage.

La ~ msviswan said...

"These are people who more than likely want their children to identify with them as well as their black parent. Some people feel that if a child identifies as just black they are essentially distancing themselves from the other parent and their heritage."



Hey Classical One,

You see that's the thing, I would more understand if the white parent was raising that child in Africa.

However, as a white American parent (especially the white mothers) raising a black biracial child in America, what makes them think it would be so easy for that child to "distance" themselves from "white heritage" in this white dominant society? What's the real fear in all of that? I always felt for many of those parents it's something much deeper, and much more pre-meditating than that. In my observation, it seems there's still something alarming or threatening among many white people about being labeled with solo black heritage/blackness, especially if there's a child evolved to protect. "Biracial" is becoming a loaded term. I think in an anti-black society, it has more to do with having a certain privilege or mentality instilled in the child, or in society for hopes of better acknowledgement (it's that deep).

I sometimes wonder if white fathers/males are a little more realistic about this why many don't seem to reproduce with black women as they do Asian.Hispanic. (I could be wrong, and I'm not trying to be negative). I personally feel in the last decade or so, this "only call them biracial" ideology has also been used as a pacifier for those "self hating" black males, as well as many recent white women to tolerate and allow themselves to procreate with black males and not have to think of their off-spring as "black". If that had to be openly admitted, then it would be an obvious form of selective racism (no one wants to claim that). I feel there are some white males that are now also thinking that way too. This is why I cringe when I hear certain people/parents who insist on clinging to that term "biracial" only. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the term, but it puts me to wonder. I hope I explained my point, and I want to explore it further myself another time.

Peace

classical one said...

I sometimes wonder if white fathers/males are a little more realistic about this why many don't seem to reproduce with black women as they do Asian.Hispanic. (I could be wrong,)

Actually, your probably right

Grata said...

"I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. Is it that black Americans are the only sticking to racial classifications? Wherever I go in this world, no matter what I choose to call or think of myself, I will be identified as black. Same for the whites, yellows (Asians), reds(Indians), and browns (Hispanics). This identification based on race is NOT unique to black Americans, and hardly did we create these distinctions".

Granted the color identity was not created by black Americans, it was forced onto them. And I was not implying that they are hanging onto it.

However, though the other groups (including whites) are referred to by their skin color, there is more to their identitities, either ethnic background or country of origin.

My point is that Black America is in a very tight situation because an identity has been primarily formed by the skin color due to as we all know, history, and that is the reason you have problems like colorism. No other group of people has formed an identity primarily on skin color. If there is one, I haven't heard of it.

This concept was brought to my attention by an interview I watched of a curator at the AA Museum, who mentioned that you had Korean Americans, Japanese Americans, Mexican Americas etc

But AAs were the only group that don't have that. As for the Whites who may not claim original nationalities, it is a conscious choice for them.

I am just stating matters as I observe them not a personal opinion.

Grata said...

"I sometimes wonder if white fathers/males are a little more realistic about this why many don't seem to reproduce with black women as they do Asian.Hispanic. (I could be wrong, and I'm not trying to be negative)".

La,


That is why Euro men are the way to go. I met European men and women who wanted Biracial children.

There are 2 white women I know that said they never wanted white children. And indeed they ended up marrying and having children with Africans.

The biggest IR pairing in East Africa is Germans and Africans. You would think with their history of purityof race they would be the least likely to inter breed.

Some of these things are quite complex.

I on the other hand wonder why its so hard for people to accept biracials simply as biracials which is what they are. And continue figthing racism as it affects blacks.

Siditty said...

I don't think that light skinned women have it easier. However I do believe that there is a hierarchy of beauty amony blacks and it goes like this: 1)biracial women(ideal
black
beauty)
2)light skinned women
3)darkskinned women
I also think facial features play a huge role also. European features are valued over afro features. Some have said that a darksinned woman can move up in the ranks if she has European features. If you have afro features and are darkskinned who have a lot of black people who will consider you to be unnatractive. If you have afro features but you are light skinned you get a pass. If you have European features and are light skinned you are high on the list. If you have European features, light skinned, and "good hair"(biracial) who hit the jackpot. Even thought people may tell you "There are plenty of beautiful darksinned women" they still believe that a beautiful light skinned woman is higher on the beauty scale than a beautiful darkskinned woman no matter what.


Brownskin this is very true sentiment in my opinion. I have people in my family who refuse to associate with each other based upon skin tone. Some of us can pass a brown paper bag test, some of us cannot (me included), and that has caused a rift. Maybe it is a southern thing, but the "bright, light, close to white" has long been desired where I grew up. It was normal for me to hear the "your pretty for a dark girl', or "you got that good hair", or the you must be "mixed with something to be so pretty"(even though I am pretty darn black). have family members who have used skin tone as a criteria for dating and marriage partners.


-----

. For most people I always wonder if it's a hidden cop out to deny blackness.

Ls:

I have always wondered the same thing.

----

These are people who more than likely want their children to identify with them as well as their black parent. Some people feel that if a child identifies as just black they are essentially distancing themselves from the other parent and their heritage.

C1:

I am curious, if you ever were to have a child with a black woman, would you want the child to identify as biracial, black, or white, or would you let them decide? I am curious because my husband feels that our children (if we ever have kids) should identify as biracial so as to not deny him or his family.

-----

I sometimes wonder if white fathers/males are a little more realistic about this why many don't seem to reproduce with black women as they do Asian.Hispanic.

Ls:

Do you think that white men are less likely or less willing to have children with black women.? Or do you think the reason we see such small numbers is that most white men don't tend to be open to dating or having serious relationships with black women?

------

C1:

Are you saying white men are not willing to have children with black women, which would explain why they are apprehensive about dating or considering black women as partners?

roslynholcomb said...

"Do you think that white men are less likely or less willing to have children with black women.? Or do you think the reason we see such small numbers is that most white men don't tend to be open to dating or having serious relationships with black women?"

I think this gets down to the meat of the matter. White men, moreso than white women are invested in their particular culture and the preservation of white privilege. After all white women have so much less to lose. While privileged, they're certainly not as privileged as white men, and as this election so vividly demonstrates, they're madder than hell about it. Any privilege they lose in the white community is more than made up by their elevated status in the black community. Black women and white men will be diminished in both their communities and have no benefit to gain in IRing.

Mating/dating with black women is a surefire way to lose white privilege or at least have it severely diminished.

White men's power lies in their ability to wield white privilege and pass it on to their offspring. Quiet as it's kept, most of them understand this very well, and would rather give up just about anything than to lose it.

This is a crucial issue between black women and white men, and is the reason why I bring the topic up so much. It's disingenuous to imply that black women are the only barrier to relationships between black women and white men. The numbers disparity is glaring, and at the bare minimum it's a 50/50 proposition.

Soila. said...

La ~ msviswan sd:
"You see that's the thing, I would more understand if the white parent was raising that child in Africa."



Could you please elaborate that statement for me?



"Sometimes I wonder about people who insist on being called "biracial" and get offended when you refer them as just "black". I also wonder about white mothers in particular who are so adamant about their children being called "biracial" and God forbid just black."


See I think that's not fair. Why should they be identified as black??? If they are mixed they are mixed. Dont get me wrong, I would find it weird if a mixed person were to freak out if called black. I would read their reaction as more than a mere irritation from being forced into one race if that's not how they normally identify themselves as. At the same time, I think mixed kids are just that. Mixed. I dont think society should try to force them into one race when they are made up of more than that one race.

I think if a mixed person identified as white then peeps would have a problem with it but yet we dont have a problem with them identifying as black. Can you say double standards?

***********************************

Sid sd:
"...I am curious because my husband feels that our children (if we ever have kids) should identify as biracial so as to not deny him or his family."



I am with him on that. I very much believe in raising bi-racial kids as just that. If they want to choose a different identity for themselves when they're older, then that's fine by me. Same way I would feel left out of their identity if they were to be identified by their dad's race only, I would guess he would feel the same if I identified the child as black only.

classical one said...

Sid,

As far as what I would want to classify my bi racial children as, well, in America they are going to be considered black no matter I think.

C1:

Are you saying white men are not willing to have children with black women, which would explain why they are apprehensive about dating or considering black women as partners?

I would say it is probably one reason, after all, a black man can a have a child with a white woman and the child is still considered black; if your a white guy the opposite is true, that's probably way to much for most white guys. Allot of men want a child to look like them and carry on their heritage, at least in the states, it's an ego thing.

Siditty said...

Allot of men want a child to look like them and carry on their heritage, at least in the states, it's an ego thing.

C1:

My question is then this, why are white men so willing to date and have relationships and children with other races of women (Asian, Hispanic) if heritage is a concern? Wouldn't the "whiteness" be diminished some what of that were the case.

I guess I should ask you too Casper. You actually have a child :)

Siditty said...

Another question for the guys.

Why is heritage so important, considering most american whites are a mixture (i.e. my husband is english, irish, and german). Why is the concern of heritage only in regards to when mixing with black folks?

Miriam said...

I wish I had something to add, but this is most interesting.

Do other languages have names for "biracial". I've never been able to say -except in English- that the kids are biracial.

But then (with the exception of maybe one)my kids mostly look like me, so I'm a bit "safe" in that region.

La ~ msviswan said...

soila said: "I think if a mixed person identified as white then peeps would have a problem with it but yet we dont have a problem with them identifying as black. Can you say double standards?"

No, if you're not white, you're just not white. I don't see what's so hard or devastating to understand that. I'm not saying my theory applies to all biracial people or their parents, I'm just exploring the other possible motives for many of them.

You know, I often wonder if the entire world was a black/negroid supremacist world, and the white race in particular was considered inferior, non-respected, destitute, un-appealing etc.. would some of the same black biracials be so quick to correct people if they were presumed just black.

La ~ msviswan said...

Sid's question to C1 ... "My question is then this, why are white men so willing to date and have relationships and children with other races of women (Asian, Hispanic) if heritage is a concern? Wouldn't the "whiteness" be diminished some what of that were the case. "

Good points, and I also respect C1's previous response. I think it's hard to swallow, but I have always suspect this as part of it. Some of these men won't mind "ethnical eyes" on their children, but It would almost appear as if the shade and color of skin is most important above many things.

La ~ msviswan said...

Another thing, I'm not saying something is wrong to indicate oneself as biracial for legal documentation etc. However, in a social construct, why is it so imperative for some to declare themselves non-black. Especially if the biracial individual looks like the average light or brown skin black person. I'm just saying...

roslynholcomb said...

Miriam, I think some Asian Pacific Islanders use the term 'hapa.'

Personally, I've never cared for the term biracial. Being that there's no such thing as race, to say that someone is of 'two races' is well, dumb. Unfortunately, it is the word we have so I have to deal with it. My husband fully understands that to many people my child will be considered black, and he's not offended by that. We refer to him as biracial, but if he at some chooses to identify as either white or black, no biggie.

I don't get what people mean when they say that identifying as either white or black means denying the other parent. I'm the person who taught my son to walk, use the toilet and wipe his butt (he doesn't quite have the hang of that one yet). I'm imprinted all over him. He could no more deny himself from me, than he could change his DNA code. Now, if he said he wasn't my son, that would be one thing, but HIS racial identification is not about ME. I'm far more than the color of my skin. I believe strongly in the right to self-identify. Whatever he decides to call himself is his choice, not mine.

Oh, and btw, to hear him tell it, everyone is brown. Presumably because he's brown. Even his daddy, who is so white he's nearly transparent, is brown as well. And when you call him anything but his name, he'll correct you quickly. "I'm not a boy. I'm a Luke." I really hope he'll tell someone that someday, because it truly is the gospel truth. We're not a race, we're people. We all really need to buy an effing clue.

LaReinaCobre said...

Anon wrote: "Cubans are some of the most racist people around. I have Cuban friends and they are quite interesting."

I would disagree with that. I don't think Cubans are any more racist than other latinos (or people). Granted, I do not live in Miami or other southern states where some of the wealthier white Cuban Americans live. All the Cubans I know are working class or middle class folk.

Grata said...

"Do other languages have names for "biracial". I've never been able to say -except in English- that the kids are biracial".

Yeap Miriam,

Where I am from they are called "Bakyotera" -plural and "Mukyotera" -Singular, meaning mixed. People go mosly by the hair. If the hair starts looking uncharacteristically black African and your skin is on the un African light side then you are classified as a Mukyotera. Some people may actually call you white.
But those who are raised and embrace the culture are accepted as part of the community.

The English use "Half Caste" which I understand now, is not PC.

Grata said...

"Why is heritage so important, considering most american whites are a mixture (i.e. my husband is english, irish, and german). Why is the concern of heritage only in regards to when mixing with black folks?"


Siditty,

I think you are asking the obvious here. That discrepancy in the acceptance of other races but not black is a clear manifestation of the totem pole order of operations.

We should keep in mind that every other race considers Black as inferior. We should therefore not be too surprised when people act in that manner.

It takes a rare individual to look beyond the rules society has made up and pursue a serious relationship with a black woman. Considering that not many people are free thinkers, the odds are heavily against BW. That is the reality unfortunately.

And that is why WM seriously interested in BW in this society will always be mostly older WM who have reached a certain level of maturity and realization.

There was an article by a WW a while back on why she dates BM and she explains the crisis of WM and why she doesn't date them. Her article is insightful and in a way gives an idea of the crisis among middle aged white men.

White woman explains why she dates BM

Malacyne said...

As the mom of a bi-racial kid, I can attest to colorism. Despite the fact that some people may want to downgrade it, I feel that it's very real, having been the victim of it. The BC is struggling with this and BW are slicing and dicing each other up over it. Need proof? Look at the music videos, look at the ads in the media. No disrespect to the light-skinned posters on the board but you just don't understand. I wouldn't call it easier but it certainly is different.

Well anyways...back to my son. I think black mothers of bi-racial children strongly influence their children to black culture. I've spoken to a few mom's and we all agree that this exposure is important to us. It's beyond the food, music, faith & spirituality...it's little things like using lotion or creams after bathing, oiling the scalp, etc...
I think I shied away from involving myself and my son in his father's side of the family ever since my ex's grandmother referred to our son (her oldest great grandchild) as a jungle bunny. Yep, that did it for me. And as the O-man has said, she's a 'typical white woman'.
When I am with my son, people do not believe that his father is white. And my ex has told me that people give him the stank eye when he has our son.
I think there's alot of colorism and racism in America that makes things rough for non-white people.

Anonymous said...

First let me say... due to rampant colorism within the BC, I don't see too much lighter skin discrimination in comparison. Yes I have seen darker skin men and women snicker among themselves about "high color" blacks. But even they would hop, skip and jump for that very "high color" black person, before they would do it for another dark skin black person. I've seen it.


Not all dark skinned blacks worship light skinned blacks so I dont agree with that comment. I am a beautiful, dark, skinned woman. I would not skip or hop to any lighter skinned person. I know plenty of darker skinned black women and men who PREFER darker skinned mates. Believe me they exist. I was a part of a good looking, dark skinned couple. Dont try to put us all in the same boat. Most of the men that I know like women who have a pretty face and nice body whether the woman is light or dark. The one thing they dont seem to want is an OVERWEIGHT woman.

classical one said...

C1:

My question is then this, why are white men so willing to date and have relationships and children with other races of women (Asian, Hispanic) if heritage is a concern? Wouldn't the "whiteness" be diminished some what of that were the case.


Good question, my guess is that Hispanics are often very European in the sense of their Spanish heritage, you won't see allot of guys with an "Indian" Hispanic, someone that is not mixed with European blood. Asians seem to get a pass, not to sure why but most East Asians are very light.

I should write a blog in this, it's pretty complicated. Most white guys are still attracted to white women of course and it's what they are most comfortable and familiar with.


I wouls also say to you Sid that your husband might not realize how hard it will be to raise a child as bi racial. Blacks and whites in this country still follow the one drop rule. I've met allot of people who identify as bi racial but none of them were of Black heritage.

lam said...

"Another question for the guys.

Why is heritage so important, considering most american whites are a mixture (i.e. my husband is english, irish, and german). Why is the concern of heritage only in regards to when mixing with black folks?"

_______________________________

Siditty,

I am dying to hear the answers.

TBT said...

Siditty "Why is heritage so important, considering most american whites are a mixture (i.e. my husband is english, irish, and german). Why is the concern of heritage only in regards to when mixing with black folks?"

American whites have assimilated with one another to the point where white is white. Ancestral bloodlines have little currency because we are so far removed from them. Blacks are a different story as we are still deeply segregated and the fear is that such segregation could force a child to choose sides.

I've thought about this and have come to the conclusion that if I had a "mixed" child (or hell, even a "white" child) I would be most happy not with a black, white, or bi-racial label but with "non-racial"--that is-- no race. Not just for biological accuracy, but under the premise that the willful acceptance of racial identity is to support racist systems and racial hierarchies.

I think this would be quite bohemian. lol

We might even have a little familial slogan akin to those nifty feminist separatist slogans from the '70s (The Penis is Violence!).
Race is Tyranny.

Of course, first I'd have to find and conquer my own subconscious racial hangups for having grown up in this society.

Grata said...

"Of course, first I'd have to find and conquer my own subconscious racial hangups for having grown up in this society".

TBT,

What have you been eating, drinking, smoking?????

You sound 3 times older than you are.WOW!

TBT said...

Grata "And that is why WM seriously interested in BW in this society will always be mostly older WM who have reached a certain level of maturity and realization."

The opposite point could also be made. Older generations are more likely to harbor racial baggage, and more likely to be set in their ways in regards to their racial views. Racial tolerance of this level is still a fairly new concept in the U.S., and I've found the older crowd to have some of the most archaic racial views. That's not to say there aren't plenty of smart, reasonable, unprejudiced old folks--
there are-- but I think it'd be a mistake to expect old men to be more enlightened when in comes to race by virtue of their age.

Anonymous said...

The blog title is like whoa. Black people do not as a rule dislike Biracials and Lighter skinned blacks. Actually, many prefer it. Remember some of the cruel ridicule from other children?

On the terminology of biracial. I know some people do not like to hear it but actually, most blacks particularly in the US are multiracial. Mating and breeding out for bw has been going on for a long time. So when I hear someone getting offended by someone calling them "black", its nuts. If that is the case, no one who looks black should be called black.

It seems the new-er so called biracials want to be different. First generational biracials. But they or their children are not first generational. Read some antebellum history. No one in the US is one race. What does the term biracial mean then?? Is it mother identified as one race and father another race. Or is it truly people who have mixed ancestry from further back in their gene pool? We are multiracial.

If biracials want to be called biracial, then they should NEVER refer to me as black or AA. I think what is at the ROOT of the biracial movement is the need for people to say, "I don't look black. So I'm not black. I want to honor my white or other parent". So because I "look" black, I'm supposed to be called black? No one knows my true genetic identity but my family (as most in the US) is FILLED with white (european)/black/native.

Anonymous said...

Great thread.

I agree with Siditty, "biracial" ain't nothing new...I'm sure you've all heard of the rooney families in Louisiana... the Quadroons and Octaroons, etc....yes, for most of the history of this country folks have been obsessed with parcelling out just how "black" you are but at the end of the day you were black regardless of biology.

The whole biracial movement has nothing to do with biology. It's about social identity and wanting to have access to the privilege being "not black" gives you.

Speaking of privilege...Roslyn is dead on again. White men who marry black women risk their white privilege....it is just not a status symbol to have a black wife. This is as much a barrier to IR dating as any issue black women may have...if not more so.

In fact, rumor has it one particularly hot Hollywood hunk dumped his black girlfriend because he was getting so much negative flack from fans.

Siditty said...

You know, I often wonder if the entire world was a black/negroid supremacist world, and the white race in particular was considered inferior, non-respected, destitute, un-appealing etc.. would some of the same black biracials be so quick to correct people if they were presumed just black.

la:

Nope

-------

Some of these men won't mind "ethnical eyes" on their children, but It would almost appear as if the shade and color of skin is most important above many things.

la:

I am under the same assumption. I keep thinking of this IR WM/AW couple and their child does not even look remotely white, she is very obviously of asian descent, I wonder if he had issues with his child looking so ethnic? Or did he assume he would have a decent chance of having a child that looked white, with some slight color?
-----

lareincobre:

This is me stereotyping, but I think many hispanics are racist towards those who are darker than them. I know they have their own issues with colorism within their own community, at least in the Mexican population. I once dated a hispanic/white man and his mother nearly died when he bought me home to meet his parents. His father (white) held his composure better, but his mother was adamant we break up, as our relationship would be too difficult for society to handle.
----

Grata:

I read that article from Susan Crain Bakos, and I will say that woman is crazy. She basically said she dates black men because younger black men are attracted to her and make great mandingo lovers, where as white men tend to want younger women (I find most men want younger women, women their age or older are considered damaged goods in our society) and do not look at her. She said black men are more forgiving of her looks than white men and white men aren't interested in her. It had what I felt were some racist undertones to it.

----

I think I shied away from involving myself and my son in his father's side of the family ever since my ex's grandmother referred to our son (her oldest great grandchild) as a jungle bunny. Yep, that did it for me. And as the O-man has said, she's a 'typical white woman'.

Malacyne:

Wow. How absolutely crazy. I am surprised she is still alive after saying that. I would have had to catch a case messing with that woman.

------


I wouls also say to you Sid that your husband might not realize how hard it will be to raise a child as bi racial. Blacks and whites in this country still follow the one drop rule. I've met allot of people who identify as bi racial but none of them were of Black heritage.

C1:

I want to raise my child as black, since I know they will be viewed that way by society. My husband has a more idealized view of race in America than I do. As I said in another blog, I don't even know if me and him will have kids, we have vastly different views on kids. For instance, I recently went back to being vegetarian. He told me it was abuse to raise kids as vegetarians instead of meat eaters. Not that I would raise my kids veg, but I would like to have that option LOL

------


American whites have assimilated with one another to the point where white is white. Ancestral bloodlines have little currency because we are so far removed from them. Blacks are a different story as we are still deeply segregated and the fear is that such segregation could force a child to choose sides.

TBT:

Good point, there is very much an "us vs. them" mentality in regards to race relations between blacks and whites.

Anonymous said...

And that is why WM seriously interested in BW in this society will always be mostly older WM who have reached a certain level of maturity and realization.

That is kind of sad. Dont get me wrong, I dont think that there is anything wrong with a 35-40 year old white man but a lot of younger black women want younger white men. I actually dont mind these men because they are also more established in their careers and quite successful. I meet them all the time when I travel. And on the flip side, white women are getting a lot of these young, handsome black men. That is unfair. Tis life.

Anonymous said...

Good question, my guess is that Hispanics are often very European in the sense of their Spanish heritage, you won't see allot of guys with an "Indian" Hispanic, someone that is not mixed with European blood. Asians seem to get a pass, not to sure why but most East Asians are very light.


C1,

Then what is this new attraction of some white men to black women? I know that overall white men date ww, aw & hw but what about the fact that they are approaching us more? What should we make of that? I am so confused by your comments. Please elaborate. Thanks.

Grata said...

"That's not to say there aren't plenty of smart, reasonable, unprejudiced old folks--
there are-- but I think it'd be a mistake to expect old men to be more enlightened when in comes to race by virtue of their age".


Going by the statistics. Most BW/WM IR couples are usually in the older crowd or those that have been previously married. So I suspect there is a correlation btn age and the ability to be IR married esp for that particular combination.

Grata said...

"It had what I felt were some racist undertones to it".


Sid,

No doubt she is a racist and is riding on her skin privilage to hook up with BM. However even though alot of her stuff is crap she reveals something insightful about WM her age.

According to her, they hit a crisis when they get over 40 when they realize that they were over rated in their youth and the progress of minorities has proven to them that they are not all that.
If this is true, it is no surprise that it is in these ages that they become more open to dating ::gasp:: Black Women

Siditty said...

An infamous example of the one drop rule: Susie Guillory Phipps

Maybe this is why I get confused by the biracial moniker. I know in my family there were biracial folks who married other biracial folks and had kids, are they still biracial or black? I know historically unless they can pass, they were black. I know that there is a lot of blonde and red heads in my family with light skin and green eyes who are calling themselves black. I grew up thinking these folks were black, nothing more, it never occurred to me they might not be all black. It is kind of like when people ask me what I am mixed with (as if I am mixed, I think the hair throws them off). I know I have some white and native american ancestry, like MOST AAs, I just never been excited to trace it, the only white I know of is of the unknown white men (no one told) that fathered both my great grandmothers, and of the possible connection of a slave master having an affair with a slave on the land my mother's side of the family still live. I definitely know one great grandmother on my father's side is native american. I attribute my father's hair texture to that.

Grata said...

"I meet them all the time when I travel. And on the flip side, white women are getting a lot of these young, handsome black men. That is unfair. Tis life".

BW women will do well to understand the realities. I can understand why it is difficult for young WM to get involved with BW.

It is practically a battle against centuries old beliefs. There are some exceptions but the reality is that the dating field is heavily tipped against BW and worse for those young ones that want to date the younger WM.

That is why Euro men are a much safer bet because of the difference in history.

I know some BW hate hearing this but if this society wasn't as racist as we know it then we would have the confidence of having the same chances as our white/Latino/Asian counterparts.

Its not that WM don't want BW. They clearly do but most don't have the nerves for the challenge.

La ~ msviswan said...

Anonymous said: "Not all dark skinned blacks worship light skinned blacks so I dont agree with that comment. "

I didn't say all. And you still can't deny there are some dark skin blacks that do. Well those are the ones that I was refering to.

"I am a beautiful, dark, skinned woman. I would not skip or hop to any lighter skinned person.
"

Well then, that just means you're one of those in that bunch you said exist. So we do agree on something after all.

"Most of the men that I know like women who have a pretty face and nice body whether the woman is light or dark. The one thing they dont seem to want is an OVERWEIGHT woman."

Well, I'm so happy for you. You go girl.

Grata said...

"Asians seem to get a pass, not to sure why but most East Asians are very light".

Asians get a pass because of their perceived intelligence and ass whooping they are giving the whole white global economic structure. You have to respect a person that uses your knowledge and beats you up with it.

That is my personal take on why WM will take Asians. The fact that they have not bowed to white dominance and have turned it around on them. There are other explanations I have heard like their bosy type is closer to whites etc but I think these a weaker excuses.

White's sense of superiority is based on the advancement of technology, medicine, political organization etc. The Asians have the same level of achievement and will soon surpass that of the West. So it a matter of being with the one that is progressive.

Yet if you look at blacks you see the stereotypical black community and stereotypical Africa, not very appealing is it?

classical one said...

Yes, that article was absurd indeed.

"Then what is this new attraction of some white men to black women? I know that overall white men date ww, aw & hw but what about the fact that they are approaching us more? What should we make of that? I am so confused by your comments. Please elaborate. Thanks."


Im not entirely sure what to make about it all. I think time will tell more than anything

Grata said...

"I have heard like their bosy type is closer to whites etc but I think these a weaker excuses".


Make that, ... body type is closer to whites etc...

Soila. said...

La ~ msviswan sd:
"No, if you're not white, you're just not white. I don't see what's so hard or devastating to understand that."


OK.

***********************************

TBT sd:
"Of course, first I'd have to find and conquer my own subconscious racial hangups for having grown up in this society."


Nice one.

***********************************

Grata sd:
"TBT,

What have you been eating, drinking, smoking?????

You sound 3 times older than you are.WOW!"


I concur.
TBT, please, do tell what brought about the change???

***********************************

Miriam,
I grew up refering to mixed people as Half-castes. That's the term that is used for them in former British East Africa. I didnt know it's now not PC.

So Grata,
What's the prefered term now?

La ~ msviswan said...

Anonymous March 26, 2008 7:29 PM,

You hit some points on the nail. You took many words out my mouth.

You know, what is "black", then many African American/caribb blacks etc. should not be considered "black" either. Where do you draw the line?

Another thing, I often wonder what would be the proper term to call an offspring of two black biracial parents. Technically, they are not "bi-racial", because technically both parents are the same "race". Am I not correct?

Sid, many (not all) Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans, P-Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans etc.. are butt racist towards black people, period. I feel many black Hispanics (Dominicans) are so absurdly racist towards other black people. Black people who are even lighter than them. Some of them are darker than the average black person, yet they don't consider themselves apart of the black race. They use their Spanish speaking culture as an excuse to separate themselves from being black, and they're very discriminative (even if their parents were dark and originally from Haiti). This blows me away! I am fluent in Spanish, and all my life I have over heard some crzy delusional sh*t from many of them. Talk about twisted denial. Note: I am not saying all.

Grata said...

"So Grata,
What's the prefered term now?"

In East African English, half caste is still used but I understand its offensive in America. In SA they are coloreds. I am not sure what Britain has at the moment. Probably still going with half caste.

Soila. said...

A lot of people of other races would use anything to distant themselves from being refered to as black. I know the really dark Indians/ Sri-Lankans (SE Asia) use ther hair to distant themselves from being associated with blacks (African ancestry). They could look as negroid as any African but will tell you how much their hair makes them not negroid. Other groups such as that are some Somalis/ Ethiopians/ Eritreans (All pure Africans), Dark Latinas, some Zanzibari peeps and some Omani peeps (Especially if they have middle Eastern lineage). I have no problem with one not wanting to be boxed into a race. I only have a problem if one tries to imply I am inferior coz I happen to be of the race they are looking not to be associated with.


It when I hear crap like "I may be the same skin colour as blacks but thank God I dont have black people hair." bull from some of the above mentioned groups that I want to just step on someone's fugly face. That just annoys the crap out of my life. Oh well...

***********************************

Grata sd:
"In East African English, half caste is still used but I understand its offensive in America."


Oh. I thought you meant that the English are considering it offensive now. I didnt know you meant it's offensive in the States. If you talk to people like my mum and dad, they will refer to a mixed person "Half-Caste" coz that's what they were taught. I started using bi-racial/ Mixed upon moving here.

Anonymous said...

I am under the same assumption. I keep thinking of this IR WM/AW couple and their child does not even look remotely white, she is very obviously of Asian descent, I wonder is he had issues with his child looking so ethnic? Or did he assume he would have a decent chance of having a child that looked white, with some slight color?




I don't know how many times I've seen half white and half Asian kids and those times I've seen them which is a lot, they never look like their white parent. They look like a regular Asian child that has two Asian parents.
I don't do WM have so much concern with that. It obviously doesn't stop them from having children with AW. They don't look anything near white.
My brother's girlfriend sister who is Asian, her husband is white. I've seen their kids and if I didn't know any better I wouldn't know that those where his children.
Not trying to sound mean but at-least when a black and white person has a child, although the child may be brown skin at-least there is some resemblance of both parents with the child.

TBT said...

"The fact that they have not bowed to white dominance and have turned it around on them. There are other explanations I have heard like their bosy type is closer to whites etc but I think these a weaker excuses."

Oh, so that's it. I had thought the Korean girl was cute because she was so petite and quiet and had these adorable pink streaks in her hair. I realize now that my attraction has more to do with the weakening dollar and east asian trade surplus! j/p I see what you mean.

I think sometimes you have to give people the benefit of doubt. I don't think the U.S. Vietnam vets who married their poor, largely uneducated Vietnamese gfs en masse did so because they considered them racial equals. I don't think race was an issue.

And therein lies some of the truth, women who are less tied to their racial identity are more attractive as individuals because they don't carry the baggage for every person in their category, and are subsequently less intimidating as well.

Race talk is very tiring and demoralizing. I'm convinced it's mentally unhealthy as well. An author I really admire, Chris Hitchens, wrote a book called God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.

I've come to realize race is synonymous with religion almost entirely. It's non-existent, relies on falsehoods, plays on mass mental illness, has people fighting and killing one another, and shapes personal identity. It's pure poison. The more one can distance oneself from it, the healthier one will become.

Anonymous said...

That is why Euro men are a much safer bet because of the difference in history.


AMEN! This is something bw in the US really need to consider.

Anonymous said...

"Most of the men that I know like women who have a pretty face and nice body whether the woman is light or dark. The one thing they dont seem to want is an OVERWEIGHT woman."
--------------------------------
La ~ msviswan said...

"Well, I'm so happy for you. You go girl."

You Mis La Msviswan are very classy. That is JUST the way we need to answer those who subliminally mock or scorn. Your comment was short and sweet. There is no way for someone to take you for being bitter.

Soila. said...

TBT sd:
"And therein lies some of the truth, women who are less tied to their racial identity are more attractive as individuals because they don't carry the baggage for every person in their category, and are subsequently less intimidating as well.

Race talk is very tiring and demoralizing. I'm convinced it's mentally unhealthy as well..."



Very well said :)

Anonymous said...

La ~ msviswan said...
Anonymous March 26, 2008 7:29 PM,

You hit some points on the nail. You took many words out my mouth.

You know, what is "black", then many African American/caribb blacks etc. should not be considered "black" either. Where do you draw the line?
-----------------------------

Thank you La Misviswan. My point was that when black Americans point out that they are not are also mixed race no one wants to really hear that. But it is the truth.

I am all for the "lets stop talking about race. there is no such thing as race." But then, DON'T turn around and call me black. What people want is to create a box where new-ER "so-called" biracials can identify separately. All throughout antebellum thru early 20th century, names like mulatto, sambo, quadroon, etc. was used to describe mixed race offspring. These names are seen as offensive to some people now but this is within the historical context.

Unless someone knows the genetic breakdown of all "so-called" US blacks/carribean (where they will see the MULTI-RACIAL genetic make up) then no one should be saying, "black people this and black people that".

Miriam said...

Roslyn said:
We're not a race, we're people. We all really need to buy an effing clue.

~~~~~
I remember learning that race and history was "rewritten" around the renaissance time. But not sure if that's true.

Also, I don't understand this concept of "breeding out" or "saving blackness" but I don't want to appear not with the program.

Anonymous said...

Race talk is very tiring and demoralizing. I'm convinced it's mentally unhealthy as well.

Amen

Grata said...

"Oh, so that's it. I had thought the Korean girl was cute because she was so petite and quiet and had these adorable pink streaks in her hair. I realize now that my attraction has more to do with the weakening dollar and east asian trade surplus! j/p I see what you mean".

You can not deny that the Asian challenge and respectability they have earned does not factor into the way they are perceived as potential long term partners. This is just one of other factors.

"I think sometimes you have to give people the benefit of doubt. I don't think the U.S. Vietnam vets who married their poor, largely uneducated Vietnamese gfs en masse did so because they considered them racial equals. I don't think race was an issue".

When you talk of military men you are talking of a different demographic here.

You are not talking of free thinking men in total control of their lives in regular society. So you can not use them to measure overall trends in society. Besides it is well known that the military is way ahead of the country in terms of race relations.

And they married those Vietnamese women because that is what was readily available to them and very convienient since the women were not undergoing some feminist brain washing of the time.

Miriam said...

I think to illiminate the concept of race, a revolution (even a quiet one) would have to be started.

However, it would have to be started by the the most disadvantaged group -the blacks. Otherwise, most others will be too desparately holding on to what little edge this concept gives them.

kenya said...

That is why Euro men are a much safer bet because of the difference in history. "

You ain't never lied about that. I need to go back.

Grata said...

"Race talk is very tiring and demoralizing. I'm convinced it's mentally unhealthy as well".

I would agree with you if I wasn't black. That feeling gives you a glimpse into what it means to be born black and raised in this country and never knowing any other experience.

Many times I get tired of it but I have realized that as a black person in America you really don't have much of a choice but keep yourself in touch with what is going on racially.

"I don't think the U.S. Vietnam vets who married their poor, largely uneducated Vietnamese gfs en masse did so because they considered them racial equals. I don't think race was an issue".

On second thought, I think it would be interesting to compare the rates of marriage of American military men in the different regions of the world they are posted. I know that when there are activities in the East African region. Sex workers come from all directions in Africa and entertain them. I have never heard of en masse marriages vietnamese style. And they don't have to marry the prostitutes, there are local girls that are more than willing.

So maybe even the military is not as progressive as we think.

Anonymous said...

Roslyn Holcomb said:

Mating/dating with black women is a surefire way to lose white privilege or at least have it severely diminished.

White men's power lies in their ability to wield white privilege and pass it on to their offspring. Quiet as it's kept, most of them understand this very well, and would rather give up just about anything than to lose it.

--------------------------------

Very true. This is why you have older wm (mid-late 40s and up) in the u.s. who seem to be more open to ir with bw than younger wm. These older men have already:

*Climbed the corporate ladder

*Had children with ww (in some cases)

*Moved past the age (20s to 30s) where what parents/society say about who they mate with

Fact is though, when they look to date/mate/marry bw, they are looking for some a good deal younger than they are. If that is satisfactory to a 20-30ish woman, this will not be a big deal.

Grata said...

"Fact is though, when they look to date/mate/marry bw, they are looking for some a good deal younger than they are. If that is satisfactory to a 20-30ish woman, this will not be a big deal".

And that is why by now we should have a dating site for European Men and Black American Women.

Falone said...

I've come to realize race is synonymous with religion almost entirely. It's non-existent, relies on falsehoods, plays on mass mental illness, has people fighting and killing one another, and shapes personal identity. It's pure poison. The more one can distance oneself from it, the healthier one will become.

Its OK, TBT! Jesus loves you, but you're still going to hell. I'll pray for you. :)





Disclaimer: THIS WAS A JOKE!

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
classical one said...

"Mating/dating with black women is a surefire way to lose white privilege or at least have it severely diminished."

What about mating/dating with say, an Asian woman?
Will white privilege be diminished then?

Anonymous said...

Grata said...
"Fact is though, when they look to date/mate/marry bw, they are looking for some a good deal younger than they are. If that is satisfactory to a 20-30ish woman, this will not be a big deal".

And that is why by now we should have a dating site for European Men and Black American Women.



Yes. Agreed. I see them with bw (aa & african, carib) and you definitely "feel" the energy of love when you are in their presence. Its not politically charged.

roslynholcomb said...

"What about mating/dating with say, an Asian woman?
Will white privilege be diminished then?"

I have no idea. I don't live in an area of the country with a large Asian population. On the rare occasions I do see any Asians (outside a nail salon), they're typically with other Asians. It's odd. This is a military town, with a lot of engineers, so we have more Asians than usual for Alabama, but I seldom see a white man with an Asian woman.

Yanmommasaid said...

Grata,
And that is why by now we should have a dating site for European Men and Black American Women.

The one who sees the need should be the one to fill it.
_________________
Miriam, TBT et al

I still don't get how people think that recognizing that people are different races diminishes their humanity. I really don't see it that way. And I really don't see why the onus should be on black people to try to change this. If every black person on earth decided to one day only consider themselves human beings who were devoid of racial categories, I don't think that would change anyone else's opinion or perception.

I also have no patience for white people telling me it is pathological for black people to have a racial identity. I'm black and this is not an issue for ME. Whatever baggage you bring to your concept of what blackness means is yours to deal with, not mine. But don't talk about it too much since it's so mentally unhealthy.
_______________________
La ~ msviswan and Anon,

I think you are absolutely right. When black Americans make mention of their mixed heritage, which nearly all of us have, it is taken as a case of trying to distance ourselves from blackness or to assert superiority. But when it comes to our offspring, we should recognize their diversity. Why is it one rule in one context and a different one for the next?
_________________
Casper,
You are 100% correct. If it weren't for black people bitching about imaginary societal ills and poor treatment, there would be no racism at all. In fact,I am sure you could trace that back as the reason chattel slavery was instituted.

TBT said...

"All this talk about white privelige is fear mongering. I am starting to see a trend in the black community to push blame and retribution against an apparition."


Yes, the peddlers of racial conspiracy do a great disservice to the black underclass and to the country. I don't know how motivated I would be to work for anything if I'd been told from birth I was being held down. It certainly doesn't appear to have done much good for last 40 years.

That's not to say everything is perfect, the fact that our "ghetto's" are synonymous with blackness proves all is not well. I think until the "black community" realizes most of its troubles can be traced to its own cultural illness, there will be no appreciable change in black achievement. America as a whole needs a cultural transformation and to become obsessed with education.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how motivated I would be to work for anything if I'd been told from birth I was being held down. It certainly doesn't appear to have done much good for last 40 years.

I agree. I think that if the black underclass, the rest of America and the world needs to be made aware of the fact the there has been a great deal of progress made within the black community. There is a strong black middle class. For some reason we tend to constantly focus on the negative. There needs to be more of a balance.

lam said...

"That's not to say everything is perfect, the fact that our "ghetto's" are synonymous with blackness proves all is not well. I think until the "black community" realizes most of its troubles can be traced to its own cultural illness, there will be no appreciable change in black achievement. America as a whole needs a cultural transformation and to become obsessed with education."
__________________________________
tbt,

I totally agree.

TBT said...

Yan "I still don't get how people think that recognizing that people are different races diminishes their humanity. I really don't see it that way. And I really don't see why the onus should be on black people to try to change this."

I don't think the onus is on black people. It is more important for whites to detach themselves from racial identity. Until that happens, blacks can't begin to shed theirs (black solidarity is a protection mechanism), but this should be a priority for everyone.

I don't think giving up blackness or whiteness means giving up history or tradition. Black history ain't going anywhere. In fact, it's not even black history-- abolition, the civil rights movement, the Harlem Renaissance, etc. etc. is so basic to the country's foundation it is American history.

To me it simply means refusing to perpetuate a system that is inherently divisive and contentious, and whose very existence is rooted in subjugation.
This is irrefutable. I don't think it starts with black people, it starts with white people.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the onus is on black people. It is more important for whites to detach themselves from racial identity. Until that happens, blacks can't begin to shed theirs (black solidarity is a protection mechanism), but this should be a priority for everyone.

I don't think giving up blackness or whiteness means giving up history or tradition. Black history ain't going anywhere. In fact, it's not even black history-- abolition, the civil rights movement, the Harlem Renaissance, etc. etc. is so basic to the country's foundation it is American history.

To me it simply means refusing to perpetuate a system that is inherently divisive and contentious, and whose very existence is rooted in subjugation.
This is irrefutable. I don't think it starts with black people, it starts with white people.

Very well stated!

Anonymous said...

(black solidarity is a protection mechanism)




This comment is very true. Blacks have a certain level of solidarity because all of us (light, dark, rich & poor) experience discrimination. Minorities who think that they are accepted by whites have no solidarity with black people but as soon as they experience discrimination they try to stand with blacks for example latinos.

Another example would be Middle Eastern people (after 9/11). The same Middle Eastern and Indian people who turned their noses up at black people all of a sudden became our friends when they caught hell from white people.

Grata said...

"Another example would be Middle Eastern people (after 9/11). The same Middle Eastern and Indian people who turned their noses up at black people all of a sudden became our friends when they caught hell from white people".

East Indians are truly comical. In Africa they have such a superiority complex that if they had their way they would segregate even in a foreign land.
When you meet them in Europe esp England they start calling you their sister/brother. First time it happened to me I was in shock.

Anonymous said...

"That's not to say everything is perfect, the fact that our "ghetto's" are synonymous with blackness proves all is not well. I think until the "black community" realizes most of its troubles can be traced to its own cultural illness, there will be no appreciable change in black achievement.


Part of the reason that blackness is synonymous with ghetto is because of the fact that the wealthiest blacks shown in the media are rappers and athletes. So our young people emulate the behavior of these Goons. Before the rap era, wealthy blacks in the media were a lot more classy and polished and represented us well. Whatever happened to the days of Motown when the young black women and men were taught to be refined?

Our young people dont see the black doctors, lawyers, millionaires (who are not in entertainment) etc. I grew up in the inner city but I attended a historically black university so I am around a lot of successful black professionals. I am not around a bunch of thugs or baby mommas.

White America and a part of Black America do not realize this side of Black America. Hell, my Carribean and African girlfriends do not realize how big the black middle class really is. They think that Black Americans dont take advantage of our opportunities. That is why I bring them around very successful American blacks as often as I can.

Hopefully if Obama wins this election, it will help to change the way that some blacks see themselves similar to the Cosby effect on Black America back in the 80's.

Anonymous said...

East Indians are truly comical. In Africa they have such a superiority complex that if they had their way they would segregate even in a foreign land.
When you meet them in Europe esp England they start calling you their sister/brother. First time it happened to me I was in shock

I have an Italian friend who is married to an Indian woman who is from England. Although both of them are doctors, he told me outright that Indians are considered very low on the totem pole in England.

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Grata said...

'They think that Black Americans dont take advantage of our opportunities. That is why I bring them around very successful American blacks as often as I can".

In the early 90s. My primary information on blacks in America was Ebony Magazine and the Cosby show. I had the classy image of blacks. I was actually shocked when I got here and went through the ghettos.

Our media then wasn't heavy laden with the stereotypes.
Infact in my particular country there is a cultural renaissance going on that the negative images of black America don't have that much room or influence. People are too poor to own cable and access that stuff anyway.

One time there was a music channel BET style that was on the free airwaves and was broadcast from SA but with mostly hip hop music. It was considered too graphic and our parliament banned it. The highly sexual content was shocking to their sensibilities. Other sources a sitcoms which show mostly midlle class Americans. The whole ghetto scene is largely unknown.

**********************************

"When black Americans make mention of their mixed heritage, which nearly all of us have, it is taken as a case of trying to distance ourselves from blackness or to assert superiority".

I am guilty of judging people on this one. But I have good reason.

Usually I encounter AAs that right off the bat want me to know their mixed heritage. And in most cases I sense it comes from a point of insecurity ecause the ones that do this the most are usually the "African looking" ones ie the ones that do not look mixed at all. The ones that look really mixed are quick to deny any white blood.

I have a friend who is very light and has light eyes. I see her as mixed but she won't hear of it. And I have met many like that. Why is it the very dark one with village kinky hair that is quick to tell me an, African, how mixed they are?

Grata said...

"I have an Italian friend who is married to an Indian woman who is from England. Although both of them are doctors, he told me outright that Indians are considered very low on the totem pole in England".

Same thing in Dubai. The indians are the laborers and the Africans there are business people. It is strange. Majority of the population in Dubai are foreigners.

The cops will pick on the indians but not the Africans who are mostly West Africans esp Nigerians.

The Arab cops are by law allowed to take the ring off the scarf on their head and use it as a whip.

It is very common to find a Niegerian whipping the cop. So they don't bother them much.

Siditty said...

That is kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that there is anything wrong with a 35-40 year old white man but a lot of younger black women want younger white men.

This was my biggest obstacle in the dating world. When I was 18-21, I was always getting approached by white men in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. I wanted a guy within my own age range. It was frustrating. I do know this men, are much more confident about their looks than women. These men in their 40s and 50s would be quick to tell me how everyone tells them how young they look, and they were steady looking older than my daddy. I was not attracted. Hell when I was 21, I thought 28 was old LOL. Of course when you date older you usually end up with men with kids (which I wasn't into at the time), divorced, or who have way too much experience for someone of that age set. I really want to know what kind of conversation you can have with someone who is so much younger than you are? I always questioned what was wrong with these older men that they couldn't or weren't attracted to women of their own age?

-----



That is why Euro men are a much safer bet because of the difference in history.


Interesting point Grata. They don't have the recent history that many blacks and whites in this country do. I have been known to date euro guys (british, italian, and irish) and did find they were more than eager to approach me. One of the first white guys I considered dating was from England. He just didn't seem to have the hang ups white guys here have. We were virtually in an all white environment and he didn't seem scared to approach or talk to black people in general. Of course I am too a stickler for accents. They could curse me out and I was smitten, I just liked the sexy voice LOL

------
And you still can't deny there are some dark skin blacks that do. Well those are the ones that I was refering to.

la~msviswan:

I think the most difficult thing about being black in America is not only do we have a history of white supremacy , but a history of colorism within our own black community to deal with. We have a history of brown paper bag tests, a history of excluding darker skinned blacks from the upper echelons of black society, the limited media exposure of blacks showing or preferring lighter skinned or bi-racial blacks. There are people who want to deny this history does not effect the black community.

------

90% of white men don't give a damn about race. The more I am exposed to the opinions of some of you the more I realize that its victimized thinking.


Casper,

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. White privilege does exist, and to say it doesn't does not mean it doesn't affect others. It isn't so much fear, but a reality. I have to get better grades, have more education, and more work experience on average than my white counterparts. My father experienced this blatantly at the company he has worked for almost 30 years.

-----


What about mating/dating with say, an Asian woman?
Will white privilege be diminished then?


C1:

I don't think it is as severely diminished, as asian folks are seen as the "ideal" minority. Many times the younger generation seems to be assimilated. I know way more asian women who date white men, than I do black women who will openly admit their attraction to white men. I know many asian women who don't even want to date asian men.

I do however question if white privilege is greatly diminished at all when it comes to wm dating women of any race. WM typically don't lose their status for dating out, that is usually reserved for women of all races.

----

don't know how motivated I would be to work for anything if I'd been told from birth I was being held down

TBT:

I was always told as a child I had two strikes against me. I was black and a woman. My parents told me to remedy this, I needed to be the best. I couldn't slack off, I always had to be the straight and narrow. My work experience has found this to be very true.

I don't think the onus is on black people. It is more important for whites to detach themselves from racial identity. Until that happens, blacks can't begin to shed theirs (black solidarity is a protection mechanism), but this should be a priority for everyone.

I don't think giving up blackness or whiteness means giving up history or tradition. Black history ain't going anywhere. In fact, it's not even black history-- abolition, the civil rights movement, the Harlem Renaissance, etc. etc. is so basic to the country's foundation it is American history.

To me it simply means refusing to perpetuate a system that is inherently divisive and contentious, and whose very existence is rooted in subjugation.
This is irrefutable. I don't think it starts with black people, it starts with white people.



OK TBT, all that smart talk makes me proud :)
-----

Was chattel slavery something that directly effected you? Have your parents or even their parents ever been the subject of slavery?

Casper:

The effects of slavery still deeply impact the plight and perception of black people to this day. So it still INDIRECTLY affects the BC. Not to mention my parents were directly affected by segregation, a remnant of slavery.

I don't know to many Jewish people who hold resentment to the German people as a whole, do you? (I am actually refering to jewish people who have lived through the holocaust)

But you are comparing apples to oranges. There was a genocide and enslavement that was never ever addressed here in America. We were never given a country to settle in to reclaim. We were never given anything for our troubles and worries, and hell we barely got an apology. After jews were released from concentration camps, they weren't legally told they were inferior to others and couldn't even eat, use the restroom, or allowed to go to certain places. It isn't the same struggle. There was blatant acknowledgment of their situation. For the BC we didn't get that and slavery lasted a hell of a lot longer than the holocaust, not that the holocaust was not considered horrible, it was, but that situation's length of time was relatively minute compared to slavery.

Maya said...

There was a genocide and enslavement that was never ever addressed here in America. We were never given a country to settle in to reclaim. We were never given anything for our troubles and worries, and hell we barely got an apology. After jews were released from concentration camps, they weren't legally told they were inferior to others and couldn't even eat, use the restroom, or allowed to go to certain places. It isn't the same struggle. There was blatant acknowledgment of their situation. For the BC we didn't get that and slavery lasted a hell of a lot longer than the holocaust, not that the holocaust was not considered horrible, it was, but that situation's length of time was relatively minute compared to slavery.


Whoo! You said a mouthful. Excellent comments. (Along with other posters)

It may very well be that a great deal of non-blacks in the US do not really truly know of Jim Crow laws which were only legally abolished 40 years ago. So yes, people in the bc today indeed remember being affected by the legacy of slavery. Could not go to the same rest rooms as whites. Could not eat in certain restaurants or go to certain public beaches and libraries (for which they paid taxes on). It was a real occurence well into the 60s. Eyes on the Prize is an excellent documentary that provides an excellent commentary on the Jim Crow period.

Even some in the bc do not really mention this recent history and have tried to move on by attempting to live the american dream like everyone else.

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Siditty said...

Casper:

I'm gonna get you. Getting me all riled up for nothing!!!!!!!!

Grata said...

"Was chattel slavery something that directly effected you? Have your parents or even their parents ever been the subject of slavery? You have a copy of a copy of a copy, and a vague notion of what the real atrocity was".

And this is where you see ignorance magnified.

Sorry Casper, that whole statement is clear evidence of white American's indifference/ignorance to the effects of slavery and any self respecting black person would walk away from such arguments.

Grata said...

"I don't know to many Jewish people who hold resentment to the German people as a whole, do you? (I am actually refering to jewish people who have lived through the holocaust)"

And why do we have a whole movie genre dedicated to the holocaust?

I have not met any holocaust survivors but the Jews I have met have had a resentment towards Germans as a whole. And using your analysis they should be the least to carry a grudge.

classical one said...

I don't think you can compare the Holocaust to slavery either. However, Jews have been massacred, arrested and persecuted everywhere in the world they have been for centuries. Jews are easily some of the most hated people in the world. What do black and white bigots have in common? Hatred of the Jews, it's still rampant in the white and black community, even the muslims number one enemy are the Jews, those people can't win.

However, slavery was unique and completely damaging to the black community. In my opinion, black and white realtions will never be repaired over slavery in the states, no matter what happens.

Siditty said...

. However, Jews have been massacred, arrested and persecuted everywhere in the world they have been for centuries. Jews are easily some of the most hated people in the world. What do black and white bigots have in common? Hatred of the Jews, it's still rampant in the white and black community, even the muslims number one enemy are the Jews, those people can't win.

C1:

Very true. But I think many jews, at least here in America have been able to assimilate a heck of a lot better than black folks. I think that Jews have suffered a lot of abuse due to religious prosecution and stereotypes.

Race relations will never improve in America because most people are too scared to say what they really think, and we have to many crazy ass folks thinking they represent most or all white people or black people.

Siditty said...

hey where is miriam when you need her? I would really like her input :)

Miriam said...

Hi Siditty,

I missed so much postings, its taking forever to get to the bottom.

~~~~~~~
Yan said:
I still don't get how people think that recognizing that people are different races diminishes their humanity. I really don't see it that way. And I really don't see why the onus should be on black people to try to change this. If every black person on earth decided to one day only consider themselves human beings who were devoid of racial categories, I don't think that would change anyone else's opinion or perception.

I also have no patience for white people telling me it is pathological for black people to have a racial identity. I'm black and this is not an issue for ME. Whatever baggage you bring to your concept of what blackness means is yours to deal with, not mine. But don't talk about it too much since it's so mentally unhealthy.

~~~~~
Recognizing the different race in and of itself is not a bad thing. I think the problem comes, because the whole system was to degrade the "blacks" if I'm not mistaken.

Its a false, social system created for someone's benefit, and so far it doesn't seem like the BF are benefiting from it.

Does a dark Indian fit black? Aborigins? Fuji Island folks? all those middle grounds people show that color is just a continuum.

Now, I could be wrong and I'm ready to learn, but this is what I see.

And why should the responsibility be on the BF to change it?

Only because, they have the most to lose from it. As things stand, when someone says "black" all kinds of images gets conjured up in the mind of both BF and WF and I really don't think alot of is is positive.

Yes, it may seem like the BF have begun to turn their own wheels of self-hate and what nots on their own --and I think for the most part they have.

But I really don't think its totally only them doing this. I believe that the media helps, what types of music gets the thumbs up helps, "white" fashion helps, statistical studies with the type of results we're all used to help. All these things help to beat down the BF, and they in turn, sometimes make matters worse from their own low self esteem. NOT ALL.

If BF all decided not to fill in the black / white/ hispan. slots I think it would start a revolution, just like the civil rights sparked the feminist one. (if my memory serves me correctly -i'm not checking facts here).

Anyway, the short is: BF have the most to gain if this was illiminated. Everyone else may feel like they have something, a bone, from the WF and may not want to reliquish that bone no matter what -until they see -usually by the BF- that they can stand on their own individual confidence and capability and they can defy this system.

(All this is kind of ironic because I'm about to write a post about divide and conquer vs divide and win. But I don't think that this contradicts what i'll be posting.)

Finally, Yan said:
Whatever baggage you bring to your concept of what blackness means is yours to deal with, not mine.

But that's the whole point, I don't think BF even came up with the concept of black, white, etc.

When you have a baby -YOU give it a name. Its yours and you know its essence. Why should we be with a given name?

Miriam said...

Hi again,

I'm not sure what the question is?

I do know several Jews who hate anything German. They refuse to buy anything related, built, manufactured, appears to be german.

There aren't that many, I don't think. Mostly that fading out from what i've seen.

I once went by this guys house -a Jewish guy- and he was poking fun at Germans with their blue eyes and blond hair.

Maybe I had too much to drink (J/K) but I asked him, "hey! you have blue eyes and blond hair! How can you say that?!"

He looked at me so seriously, I almost choked on my drink. And he replied, "American slavery wasn't the only time that rape happened."

The place got so quiet I could hear the pitter patter of a cockroach.

Grata said...

"However, slavery was unique and completely damaging to the black community. In my opinion, black and white realtions will never be repaired over slavery in the states, no matter what happens".

What a sad reality. Condi Rice just refered to it as America's birth defect.

Yes, the Jewish experience and the black experience are different and it is disrespectful to both to try and equate them.

I always hear of black anti semitism but little about Jewish racism towards blacks. Both here and in Israel.

Casper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I don't think black people hate biracial people, but I think some black people are finally realizing that maybe biracial people need their own identity. The hitory of the one drop rule is very racist and demeaning. Think about every race can be pur except the black race. You can be asian and black your black white and black your black anything mixed with black is black. That is some really deep stuff. and black people are finnally waking up and saying wait a minute why do we have to except all these biracials it's racist and insulting. I think biracial should have their own category, because white people do not except them and some blacks don't.

alicia banks said...

hi

love your blog!

see more on colorism and obama...at

OUTLOOK
aliciabanks.blogspot.com

peace
alicia banks

Anonymous said...

Your right some blacks have animosity towards light skin biracials and light skin blacks.I'm black and light(yellow)skin.I had lived in Philadelphia(ninth-poorest city,blacks are the majority)for many years.In Philly many brown skin and dark skin black young adults prefer,date,and marry only brown skinned and dark skinned blacks.I lived in cities that weren't like this.My light(yellow)skin and my brown skin black young adult cousins lived in some zipcodes in Philly that have many sex offenders and none of the black men would date my light skin cousin and many black men wanted to date my brown skin cousin.There are few light(yellow)skin and brown skin or darker skin black young adult couples in Philly.

Anonymous said...

While many good points have been made, I will say that I'm offended by some of the comments here.


What is a "typical biracial woman mentality?" The person who said this should look within herself before judging somebody else based on color. It sounds like you're insecure and in competition with your biracial coworker. Maybe you should stop projecting your issues onto people of a lighter hue and start seeing them as fellow human beings.


There will ALWAYS be people in this world who have a superiority complex. There will always be people who are more successful and privileged. There will always be women who are prettier, sexier, thinner, lighter-skinned, darker-skinned, more intelligent, etc. It is unfair but that is life. How you deal with people says a lot about you.


Hating biracial or lighter-skinned folks will not make you a better person. Don't make erroneous assumptions about people without first giving them a chance. Many darker blacks complain about this...then they turn around and dish it out to biracial people who do not deserve this treatment. So basically you don't want to be judged by your exterior but you're judging people, too. I'm a biracial woman who looks completely white. I love all of the "sides" that make up who I am.


Treat others as you would like to be treated. The next time you decide to be unkind to another person because she happens to be biracial or have light skin/European features, stop and reflect on your feelings. Is it the PERSON that you have a problem with...or is it your own insecurities about being a darker woman of color? I will assure anyone who says otherwise that there are no perks to being damn near white. It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? But in reality women like me have problems too. We have to deal with racist attitudes from nearly everyone. And no offense to anyone here, but it seems like other people of color delight in tearing down women like myself because we look different.


I have white skin, blue eyes, a button nose, a small mouth, and long hair. I'm shy. I'm softspoken. I attended rough schools in rough neighborhoods with black children who looked nothing like me and most of their cruelty was aimed at me because of my color. Never mind the fact that my clothes were not new or the fact that I came from a broken home. Then when I started dating at 16, my very dark-skinned AA boyfriend AND his family AND his friends thought it was okay to disrespect me because of my color. His mother was possibly one of the most hateful, bitter, jealous individuals I've ever come across. She had severe problems with her son dating somebody who looked like me and she let me know it whenever she could. The constant spiteful comments behind my back AND in front of me about my color went on for as long as I knew him. Oddly enough, she considered herself to be "light-skinned" when in reality she was not. She also bleached her hair platinum blonde and straightened it, starved herself to be thin, and generally acted in a snotty stuck-up way. She was definitely insecure around white women and biracial women. It was obvious in her attitude and actions. I wouldn't be surprised if she was part of the reason his relationship with girl #2 (a white woman) failed.


I will not pretend to know what dark-skinned women experience based on their color...and they should not presume to know what I experience as a result of my color. I wish that in 2008, colorism and all "isms" could become nonexistent. I realize, however, that the world is cruel. A biracial or light-skinned woman often has it much harder than you realize. Maybe in a different way but it is still no fun. I do not see dark or medium-complexioned women as being beneath me. The only people that I feel superior to are small-minded, petty individuals who judge people based on hair length and skin color. Such people are not worth my time.

Victoria Grace said...

Hello, I came across your blog entry and felt like I could offer a perspective on this issue myself, being a light-skinned African-American. I'm the daughter of a light-skinned Black woman and White father and I am very comfortable and proud of my Black heritage and family. I was raised always knowing who I was, having a good deal of contact with and knowledge of the Black side of my family, of Black culture, and of Black history. I, myself, have witnessed certain Biracial people with a notion of "supremacy" and/or ignorant mentality towards Black America. I view it as extremely sad and detrimental, not only towards other Black people but to themselves, for people who feel this way have a serious lack of comprehension about what type of people they descend from and a loose grip on reality for they are neglecting the fact that in the eyes of many White Americans, they are included in the community who they want to separate from. In my opinion, a light-skinned Black person will never end up like a "Peola" if they are taught to have an understanding, appreciation, and respect for their heritage and history. The days of "passing" are over, thank God.

Anonymous said...

Why is "RACE" so important anyway? I view myself as mutiracial, to anyone that pisses off... SORRY. My father is half black/half puerto rican and my mom is plain white. I am pround of the fact I have a black grandparent, but having one black grandparent will not make me say that I am all black because that's only PART of the story. Whether anyone likes it or not, I include ALL my heritage PROUDLY. I have to tell you the racism I have recieved has been from blacks. I always get the stank eye from both black men and women. It was never as bad as it is until my husband and I moved to Austin,Tx. Whether I'm alone or with my husband, blacks have literally stopped in thier tracks and stared at me. I have been pointed at and given blatant nasty looks ALL from blacks. I have yet to recieve that kind of hatred from whites. My husband is white so I'm sure that's why I get some of the looks, but I don't know since I get the same shit when I'm out alone???????? I have been told that I look like Mariah Carey, so who knows. Oh yea, I did not intend on marrying a white man, but I fell in love and we have more in common than anyone but the two of us will ever know. Why is it the black community here seem to despise me without even knowing anything about me????? STOP THE HATE.... It's no better than the fucked up KKK!

alicia banks said...

i understand the rage of mixed race persons who choose not to be called "black"...

but, i also understand that those same persons are often eurocentric and would NOT be similarly offended if they were called "white" (as they are in jamaica etc...

i also know that those same mixed race persons were not absolved from being slaves in amerikkka, no matter what they called themselves then...

i admire barack obama because he CHOOSES to call himself BLACK and love a black woman...as he knows that he exists in a BLACK reality....irrespective of any racial labels

this racist election has proven that the one drop rule is still in full effect in amerikkka...even as his black grandmother/other ebony african kin have been omitted from tv...

peace
alicia banks
OUTLOOK
http://aliciabanks.blogspot.com/

Siditty said...

Why is "RACE" so important anyway? I view myself as mutiracial, to anyone that pisses off... SORRY. My father is half black/half puerto rican and my mom is plain white.

Puerto Rican can encompass those with black ancestry, just FYI. If you feel multiracial great. I just want to know when can I call myself multiracial, since most black people in America are multiracial. My great grandmothers by today's standards would be white, they were 1/8th black, but in their time,they were black by law. If race is so unimportant, why would you get offended at black people calling you black. Why is it you only notice black people giving you hell, when Austin is overwhelmingly white. I am happy for you, that white people love and embrace you, but don't stereotype black people because you met the three in Austin that looked at you funny.

I am married to a white man too, but you are what I don't want my kids to be, angry at "black people" and trying to distance yourself from them, and loving anything and everything white.

Anonymous said...

Siditty,
I was pointing out the fact that you can't judge a persons genetic makeup by just looking at them. How manys time have you been asked "What are You"? I include ALL of what I am. I never said I wanted to distance myself from anyone. I am not willing to go around and basically act like over half of my family dosen't exist and exclude them. FYI Austin is about 53% white NOT overwhelmingly white I might add. I don't go around saying I'm white, but NOONE will tell me I'm not apart of the only family I've EVER known. And NO it's not been "THREE black people" giving me NASTY ASS looks it's OVERWHELMINGLY MOST. With all that blacks have done FOR this AMERICAN culture why in hell would I want to distance myself from that. I hate racism in all of it's forms. MOVE on already, the one drop rule need not apply anymore. Oh yea FYI, No shit that SOME PUERTO RICANS have black in them they are a mixed people. If it were the other way around and I had one Grandparent that was "completely" white it would be a lot different. I probably wouldn't be asked "What are you"? There is a big difference between having a drop of white in you and being 50% or more white. I hate to go here but dogs are more accurately described in more detail and it's acceptable. If a dog is a mix then they are descibed as such because you can tell they are not "purebred". Oh yea, when in my post did I say Black People call me black and I would me mad about it? DO NOT put words in my mouth. Question are one thing but making stuff up is completely different.

Siditty said...

53% of a population that isn't just black and white is a huge portion of the population. I went to school in Austin for a while, I was surrounded by white people way more than black people. If 53% of the population is white and 30% is hispanic. That leaves another 20% of all other races, and let me tell you, it is not all black. Austin is not like Atlanta, please don't pretend otherwise. So that 10% of black people in Austin do not make up MOST the population of black people in America. That was my point.

I love how all your racism has come exclusively from black people. No white person in the history of America has never inflicted any type of racism upon you.

There is a big difference between having a drop of white in you and being 50% or more white. I hate to go here but dogs are more accurately described in more detail and it's acceptable.

What you keep failing to miss is there are indeed people in this country who have and continue to identify as black who have MORE than 50% white ancestry, and again why is it we have a threshold percentage of what constitutes multiracial? What constitutes a drop 4% or 20% or 50%?

I also hate to burst your bubble there are many black people in this country that are pretty much half and half and don't even realize it. It is just a fact of life that most of us are mixed, we just aren't obsessed with trying to distance ourselves from blackness to figure it all out.

Anonymous said...

Where is your proof? You have no right to tell anyone how they should see themselves. Again, who said I was trying to distance myself from blackness? ONLY YOU SAID THAT! Why don't you check out Biracial Tiffany on YOUTUBE and educate yourself a little bit. You just don't like the fact that people who have one white parent and one black parent are different than you. Sorry, but there is a difference between being "mixed" with one white ancester you never met and having one of you parents white. Educate yourself a little more because you are very ignorant.

Siditty said...

Where is your proof? You have no right to tell anyone how they should see themselves. Again, who said I was trying to distance myself from blackness? ONLY YOU SAID THAT! Why don't you check out Biracial Tiffany on YOUTUBE and educate yourself a little bit. You just don't like the fact that people who have one white parent and one black parent are different than you. Sorry, but there is a difference between being "mixed" with one white ancester you never met and having one of you parents white. Educate yourself a little more because you are very ignorant.


Yes you got me, I am ignorant and dumb. I should be killed off. Where in my post did I tell anyone how to identify themselves? Why do you care what the hell I think about biracial people anyway?

How did you determine all black people are exactly alike to assume I am upset you have two parents of two different races? Do black people all look and act alike? That is kind of racist on your part, don't you think?

Tiffdjones is one person on youtube, she is not the representative of all biracial people. I, unlike you don't assume "your kind" to be all alike.

In terms of "white ancestors" we never met. I have a "biracial" cousin with a white mother who identifies as black. I know who my white ancestors were, I have met them, they live across the town from my family. So please don't make assumptions about all of us lowly black people. Thanks.

houstonengineer said...

I want to get in on this topic because of my life experience in this subject.

I was rised in an all black family start at three days old of my life...you need not to know how that happen.(its personal)But I have three sister's whom each married white guys and have been with their husbands since the late 70's. Now all of them have Biracial children and I have to honestly admire my sister's for the way they all raised their children. They did not allow for them to accept someone telling them they were black or they were white because they aren't. They are "BIRACIAL" and my oldest sister formed a group of women whom are all black that took on the Gov. in how they viewed Mix Babies, especially White&Black mix. When these women gave birth to their baby the hospitals nurses would automatically list on the birth certificate the baby as "other" rather than put what the mother would like to see on the birth certificate. Many states would only see thae baby as black and not even acknowledge the father who is white.

But any way, they won the law siut and today a mother has the legal right to have her child listed on the birth certificate as "Biracial". And their children did not grow up not know about either side of who they are and to embrace both sides of these cultures. They love their mothers for having taiught these things them and if you are going to have children which will be Biracial, then its you and your husbands responsibilty to teach them who they truly are and not have them stuck between to cultures because if you do your will find yourself hurting for them very deeply. I am married to a black woman and have been for some time now. She is 45 and I am 50. We put of career first for so many years that we found ourself not having had that one experience yet and so about a year ago we became pregnant. I only say that it was the best moment I have ever had in my life because seeing our baby when I come home this bundle of joy is the grestest feeling I know of other than loving my wife. Which she has always been someone special but having my bay has made her more special than I could ever find words to describe this feeling for her. But she knows where I came from and how I was raised. Though her family in the beginning just simply was not for this because they are from, Mississippi...that should tell you a little there. But Once that baby came whatever thoughts they had before change so that you would have never thought that any of them thought ill of the whole Interracial relationship they way they started off thinking. Its really amazing how a Baby can change a person. Siditty, its your responsibilty to raise your child with how you want them to view who they are or what you want them to embrace about being Birracial or not.

Anonymous said...

LOL @ Victoria Grace..."Peola"?


Surely you can do better than that.


Listen, what you call the "superiority complex" on the part of biracial people is a response to the EXPECTATION that we're supposed to be that way. In other words, there are many black people who have issues with mixed people (especially those of us who identify with ALL of what we are) and they project this animosity onto us.
We are stereotyped as thinking we're above black people, we're better than everyone, etc.


It is divisive. I had a "friend" once who clearly had issues with her dark skin and to make herself feel better, she would constantly put me down. She would make snide comments about the fact that she attended a four-year university while I was only in community college and working hard to resolve the problems in my personal life. I suppose this was her way of saying: "You might be mixed/lighter/prettier but I'm better than you because I have more formal education". I cannot deal with insecure individuals.


There IS a lot of reverse colorism and hate within the Black race...people are blind to it because of the politically correct world we live in.

Siditty said...

Listen, what you call the "superiority complex" on the part of biracial people is a response to the EXPECTATION that we're supposed to be that way. In other words, there are many black people who have issues with mixed people (especially those of us who identify with ALL of what we are) and they project this animosity onto us. 
We are stereotyped as thinking we're above black people, we're better than everyone, etc.

This is history, not perception. Jack and Jill, the Links, the HBCU admission requirements of yesteryear, the brown paper bag tests, instilled this perception and belief system. Even if this history exists, why would you fulfill the stereotype. Why fall victim to expectation.


There IS a lot of reverse colorism and hate within the Black race...people are blind to it because of the politically correct world we live in.

No one is saying otherwise, but I will say that reverse colorism hasn't hindered you from making more money than a dark skinned person, automatically seen as more attractive, nor kept white people from thinking you were a "safe" black in comparison to a darker skinned individual.

APGifts said...

.

It is often a surprise for people
to learn that, in reality, there
is actually No Such Thing As a
"Light Skinned Black" person.

The term "Light Skinned Black"
is really nothing more than
a racist oxymoron that was
created by White Supremacists
in an effort to forcibly deny
those Mixed-Race individuals,
who are of a Multi-Generational
Multiracially-Mixed (MGM-Mixed)
Lineage, the right to fully
embrace and to also received
public support in choosing to
acknowledge the truth regarding
their full ancestral heritage.

The people who have been slapped
with the false label and oxymoronic
misnomer of "Light Skinned Black"
person are simply Mixed-Race
individuals whose family has been
continually Mixed-Race throughout
their multiple generations.

For more information on MGM-Mixed
lineage, feel free to view the
information at the found at
the links listed below:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/3331
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1399
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1747

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1570
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1573

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1402
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1400

Source(s):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MGM-Mixed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FGM-Mixed


-- AP (soaptalk@hotmail.com)

.

saint james said...

What? Casper, Just because white military men have sex with other races doesn't mean they are not racist. I am not saying that white men are racist as a whole. White men have sexually been involved with black women and latino, asian, etc.for many years. It didn't mean that they believed these "exotic, sultry, vixens" were equal to them. The white slave master spent much time in the cabins of black women ala Thomas Jefferson. Race Mixing (to use an old term) is not proof of a belief in racial equality among the participants.

diane77 said...

Your right some blacks have animosity towards light skin biracials and light skin blacks.I'm black and light(yellow)skin.I had lived in Philadelphia(ninth-poorest city,blacks are the majority)for many years.In Philly many brown skin and dark skin black young adults prefer,date,and marry only brown skinned and dark skinned blacks.I lived in cities that weren't like this.My light(yellow)skin and my brown skin black young adult cousins lived in some zipcodes in Philly that have many sex offenders and none of the black men would date my light skin cousin and many black men wanted to date my brown skin cousin.There are few light(yellow)skin and brown skin or darker skin black young adult couples in Philly. continued In Philly sometimes brown skin black adults date light skin blacks,they are more willing than dark skin young adults to date light skin blacks.

Anonymous said...

I have a mixed child.And I want him to be able to identify the good from the bad in all people based on their characters rather than their skin color.I have expressed to him that evil can exist in any one regardless of skin colors.I don't enforce for him to identify his self as white or black.It is his personal choice of what makes him feel comfortable.I want for him to be happy with the choices that he makes.His success and being a good parent is what matters most to me.I am teaching him more about characters.Cause it don't matter rather we are tan,fair complected,dark complected or light complected.Cause beauty must come within.