Why black women are doing the white thing
BY Janelle Oswald
MIXED BLESSINGS: Black women and white men are the changing face of relationships
Frustrated with the ‘shortage’ of ‘good’ black men, black women are expanding their horizons and are dating outside of their race.
Statistics show that more black women are dating white men worldwide, and black female/white male marriages have increased by fifty per cent.
Some argue that this increase in relationships between black women and white men may be attributed to educational attainment.
"Some black men will look at you a certain way. They know that you have a lot going on and that they can't play games. Sometimes it's harder to attract black guys when you have a lot going for yourself," says Renea D. Nichols-Nash, author of Coping With Interracial Dating.
Oscar-winning actress Whoopi Goldberg, who dates white men, found this to be the case. Black men, she says, have a hard time dealing with a black woman with power.
Now, rather than sitting around dreaming about the perfect black man, black women are considering the possibility that ‘Mr. Right’ could be white.
Casting aside reservations about interracial relationships – for some, due to the atrocities committed during slavery – they are beginning to look past race when choosing a potential mate.
"I'm not saying that white men are the answer to all our problems," 35-year-old Chantelle Perry says. "I'm just saying that they offer a different solution."
Many black women, who are becoming increasingly frustrated as the field of marriageable black men narrows, share Perry’s view.
Black men are nearly seven times more likely to be incarcerated than white men, and more than twice as likely to be unemployed.
Another arguable reason for black women opting for white men is social environment.
Race doesn’t matter to Paul Kennedy and Michelle Clarke. Best friends since primary school, they are now in a relationship together. Kennedy is white and Clarke is black.
”People are finding people with common interests and common perspectives and are putting race aside,” says Clarke, 26, a Middlesex University graduate who works at Barclay’s Bank.
Clarke and her friends are among the new generation of black females that are opting to date outside of their race due to their social environment.
Like Clarke, the majority of young people have friends or acquaintances of different races and nationalities, and are seen as more tolerant and open-minded than previous generations.
Unlike their parents and grandparents, today’s teens and twenty-somethings have grown up hearing the buzzwords ‘diversity,’ ‘multicultural’ and ‘inclusion’, and are used to seeing interracial friendship and romance portrayed in films and on TV – especially in soap operas and adverts.
“I don’t see colour as an issue,” states Clarke. “We have been very happy together and apart from a few isolated incidents, we have not experienced any open hostility towards our relationship.”
Admitting that at first her parents disapproved – she was told while growing up never to come home with a white man – Clarke explains that her parents have come to accept her relationship decision because she would not back down, and Kennedy has proved his commitment to her and, most importantly, her family.
“I come from a stereotypical Caribbean black family and I am the first Clarke to date a white person,” she says.
“At first my parents were dead against my relationship with Paul, but our commitment towards one another has outshined any doubts.”
Clarke, who lives with her parents, says that her three-year relationship with her present partner is no different to previous ones with black men.
“I don’t believe being with Paul is any different from any of my past relationships. Being with Paul feels so natural because we have known each other for years, and I do believe that one of the secrets to a successful relationship is friendship.”
Asked whether sex is different, Clarke says: “No! Why should it be?”
However, 25 year-old Simone Thomas from south west London found it difficult to enjoy an intimate relationship with dates of a different race from her own.
“Believe it or not I have tried to have a physical relationship with several white men, but when it came down to the bedroom action I could not see it through.”
“I know it sounds crazy saying it out loud. Trust me, I’m an educated woman, but whenever I saw their private parts I was totally put off sleeping with them.”
Asked if it had anything to do with size, Thomas responds: “No, not really. It was just the colour, and all the black men I have dated have been circumcised and the white men were not.”
Cultural differences and religious beliefs are some of the reasons why numerous black women are reluctant to date outside their race.
“Life is hard enough without having to add any unnecessary stress. I just want a man that I can relate to,” declares Charlene Clifford from north London.
“A man that will know and understand me, and vice versa. Dating a white man would just be too complicated.”
Historically within the black community, people are more used to seeing black men dating white women. Black men as a group are three times more likely to date and marry white women. But black women are now exercising their options like their brothers.
“Race is becoming less of a deal in dating. People want to explore their choices,” says Adam White, author of The Interracial Dating Book for Black Women Who Want to Date White Men and The White Man's Guide To Dating Black Women.
“As scary as this may sound, there are more black women than there are black men, which means there are a lot fewer black men available for relationships,” White adds.
“This is mainly due to early deaths, prolonged incarceration, homosexuality, unemployment and marriage to white women or other races. It is a common refrain to hear black women complain that there are ‘no good Black men’ in their social universes.
“Black women are fed up of waiting for a black Mr. Right to come along and now want to explore dating outside their racial box. Black women are now thinking ‘what’s good for the goose is good for the gander’, and like black men they are exploring their options.”
Events manager and mother of two Kerry Jones, views herself as a ‘new age black woman’, who decided to marry a white man because she felt that she could not find somebody compatible for her to date within her own race.
“Let’s be real, if you are a successful black woman you only have two choices: date outside of your race or date other successful black women. And because I’m not a lesbian, I went for the first option,” says Jones, who lives in Surrey.
The 35-year-old adds: ”I love black men. My father is black, I have dated black men all my life, and if I have a male child he will be part black, but many black men my age are just not suitable for marriage.
“Black men over the years have become less and less of value to black women like me, because while us black women have progressed on to higher levels they have stayed the same. Not all, but most.”
Married to her white husband for six years, Jones says: “A black man in my position wouldn't do it, so why should I? My husband and I will raise our mixed race boys together so hopefully he will be a worthy choice for worthy black women. Not the only choice, or ‘there's nothing better out there so I'll settle for this’ choice.
“When you are successful you want the best. The best food, clothes, places to live etc. I want the best man also.”
Angered by statements that black men are failures, Jamilla Staples from south London says: “All races have good or bad and I get really annoyed when black women rubbish black men. Yes, I’m married to a white man, but not because I look down on black men but because I fell in love.”
Staples has been married for fourteen years to her husband Sam, and together they are coming to terms with being parents of mixed race children.
“When I met Sam at work it was instant attraction for both of us. I’m not one of these women that hate on black men just because I’m with a white guy. Sam in one word is ‘great’ and both of our families have gone out of their way to make us both feel comfortable when we are around.”
Staples says that initially her parents wondered if she knew what she was doing – they sat her down and gave her a speech. But, seeing how happy she was led them to eventually accept the relationship.
“I’m still very much black and keep in touch with my blackness. I don’t need to apologise for my ethnicity because that is what Sam loves – I’m a black woman,” Staples says.
“Sam and I have two children and after the birth of each of our kids I decided to save my hair, which is part of ancient African female custom after childbirth. Keeping true to my blackness is vital because I have kids and it is important for them to know who they are.
“Of course there are some differences, but not enough for our relationship not to work. We both listen to the same music and enjoy the same food. In fact, Sam cooks better jerk chicken then I do!”
She adds: “We have gone past the stares and the looks from people in the streets, I think, because we really just look like a relaxed couple.
“In the beginning, a lot of black men used to question my relationship. But over the years more and more couples like myself have become a part of the English norm.”
Published: 28 January 2008
Issue: 1305
41 comments:
Siddity thanks for the article.
I must confess the article has done little to sway my opinion of the bw/wm relationship. I think for a lot of bw (not all) they feel that their man must be on the same socioeconomic level as they or higher. I believe that this is the root cause for many bw opting to date non-bm.
My husband is a bm I love him like no other, however I make more money will probably always make more money. I see this as two reasons in the world bw are seen as less threatening than bm, so I believe it is easier for us to make transitions into higher positions even if a bm is just as qualified. Reason 2 I have gone on to receive a master’s degree my husband was satisfied after his bachelors.
So I say this to say that bw have to be willing to go for a good man regardless of socioeconomic status, you want a man that’s going to be there love you, teach your children from right or wrong, and a protector. I still live the lifestyle I have always wanted, even though our incomes are unbalanced my hubby is a wiz at finances we are able to accomplish and do all the things I have ever wanted because he can budget like no one’s biz.
Your choice was a wm I am glad that decision has worked out favorable for you. However, I can not help wondering if bw are missing or passing on good bm because they feel they are not on their level finically, I hope that this is not the case, but in some conversations that I have had with bw this seems to be there main reasons for dating out. Thanks for the article and your blog I’m still trying to sort my feelings of confusion on the issue, and your blog and others like it are aiding in that.
Respectfully, Jazzy
@Jazzy, I wish someone would retire this 'corporate America is less-intimidated by black women myth.' Black men make more money than black women despite the fact that black women have higher educational attainment than black men do. Don't get it twisted, this country is a white supremacist patriarchy, and patriarchy is serving black men very well.
As for the notion of missing out on good black men because of income disparity, I think I disabused that notion in the above-paragraph. Black women have traditionally been willing to date/mate with black men who were blue collar even when they had white collar positions. I don't see any data that indicates that this has changed. I don't know why people buy into this myth that there's some 'ready reserve' of good, hard-working, blue collar men that black women are turning their noses up at. It's simply not true.
In my conversations with black women I find women who are desperately seeking a good family-oriented man, period. I suspect that many black men are taking advantage of the 'numbers game' and having a great time of it. More power to them, but if a black woman is interested in marrying and having a family it is in her best interest to cast as wide a net as possible. Narrowing her focus to such a tiny percentage of the population is quite foolish IMO. Finding a suitable mate who shares your same goals and values.
Oh, and I wanted to add, for years when I was single, I had family members who would chastise me for dating IR. They'd always claim to know plenty of 'good black men.' I'd always say, "Great, introduce me to one." In more than a decade and a half, none of them ever did. I think that's more telling than anything.
Nice article, although most of it just seems like a repeat of what's been said in the US. As for me, I keep getting told that I intimidate BM...actually, I intimidate most men, period. Why in the name of all that is sacred should I make my self "small" so someone could feel superior to me? Whatevah....
@rosylyncomb I don't know why people buy into this myth that there's some 'ready reserve' of good, hard-working, blue collar men that black women are turning their noses up at. It's simply not true.
Roslyncomb each of us can only speak from our own experiences. So my above statements were from my experiences and observations as I’m sure yours are as well. I would also have to disagree with you when you state that bw who solely limit their interest to “a tiny percent’ of the population are foolish. For me it was a desire and want and to an extent a need to find a black man, I have dated IR with a Korean man and Hispanic men but I find the idea of IR dating and marrying a wm defeating for me. I speak only for me when I say that it would have been given up on black men like my grandfather, like my uncles.
There is absolutely no disrespect meant for other bw who have done this none whatsoever and I hope you don’t read any in to it.
In the circle of women that are among my same profession it appears that finances are one of their enduring qualities when searching for a mate (which there is nothing wrong with, it should not be the deciding factor). However I would have to contend that there are good bm out there I’m surrounded by them only a daily basis. Do they have their share of problems and issues yes (like I’m sure all men do). No matter the race of the individual it is going to be about how much effort is put into the relationship to succeed. Thanks for your above posts. I’m interested in this topic recently because I have a friend who is seriously thinking of entering an IR relationship. So any advice would be appreciated.
Again respectfully,
Jazzy
The article doesn't really mention what economic level their husbands are on. Those women seem to be successful themselves and know what they want in a man. I have never known a BW to reject a BM for being blue collar, and besides a lot of those blue collar jobs pay very well.
They didn't say the guy had to be a millionaire biz wiz, they just want someone stable.
The black UK population is what 5% or less and some of them mentioned they have dated black men. it's not like they shunned them.
"I think for a lot of bw (not all) they feel that their man must be on the same socioeconomic level as they or higher. I believe that this is the root cause for many bw opting to date non-bm."
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Women of other races want this too, not just bw and shouldn't require this of a potential spouse.
Interestingly, most of the bw/wm interracial relationships I am familiar with IRL are not between couples who have lots of education or corporate jobs. There may certainly be a trend - or maybe those educated, white collar bw are the ones who are pushing the numbers upwards more than anyone else - but I don't like how this (and many other) articles keep talking about IR as if they are something black women are resorting to.
I did not resort to dating a non-bm; my mother introduced us.
This article reinforces the notion that the only acceptable "reason" a bw would have for dating or marrying outside of her race is because there aren't any suitable black men around. This may be what inspires many bw to start thinking outside the race box, but I don't think this is even the correct question to be asking.
If a black woman worked in a 20 story building full of single, black, six-digit earning, PhD educated men and STILL chose to marry a white, asian, or non black latino man, would she be WRONG? I don't think so.
The question keeps being framed as: What is wrong with black men that black women are marrying white men? Yet, when a white man marries a black woman, the question isn't framed that way. It looks more like, "What obstacles have you had to overcome to marry outside of your race?"
I prefer the second question to the first.
I would prefer a man with the same socio-economic level as myself. And/or a man who has similar interests. I have two degrees and would like a guy who has some form of higher education or who values knowledge.
(I still remember high school, when I would answer a teacher’s question and some ghetto guy would make fun of me for ‘acting smart’)
Economically, I don’t want to be poor and I don’t want to be the main breadwinner. I would love the option of working part time (or staying home) if/when I became a mom.
And Roslyn’s right, a family oriented guy is a must.
‘I have two degrees and would like a guy who has some form of higher education or who values knowledge.’ geekgrl
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting an educated man, but I urge people that I encounter to remember not all educated men are educated at higher education facilities, i.e. Bill Gates. No one will question whether he is educated or not his decision not to finish school and start one of the most well known companies across the globe is nothing short of magnificent. You can find a well read, well inform man of any race with them being educated in the normal sense of the word. Then again we all have our preferences that are unique to us.
I am the breadwinner in our family, BUT my husband still pays the mortgage himself if I should want to go part time (because I could never fully give up working) we may have to adjust our lifestyle but by no means would we come close to being destitute.
Your post had an interesting point of view.
Jazzy
It's an interesting article! The majority of black women want family oreintated man, of whatever colour.
Jazzy - agreed. I was looking for a man with at least a bachelor's degree because this seemed to give a good indication of his interest in learning. Well, it can, but I ended up with a man who has a GED; he's never taken more than a few sample classes at a college. I have more college education than he does. Still, he makes a terrific living, and is very knowledgeable and loves learning - every day he is reading, studying. When people ask about his schooling, they are shocked to learn he is a high school "drop out."
I'll be the first to admit that few Americans who are "drop outs" go on to start their own companies or command six figure salaries, but what's most important is finding the type of person you want; not just checking off a list of criteria.
It's not unreasonable for black women to want a man who has at least as much to "offer" as they do. Nothing wrong with wanting an educated, informed, or skillful man.
A guy like Gates still fits into my definition because he values knowledge.
I know people who went to college and don't know much. And I know those that haven't, but are well read and generally knows stuff.
Well for me personally I am open to meeting a good man of any race or ethnicity. I have been attracted to men of all ages, races, and even body types. What all the men have in common were certain personality traits and a good work ethic.
My mom is a maintenance worker. I am proud of her because she's excellent at what she does. My dad does clerical work for Morgan Chase, I am proud of him because he's also excellent at his job. For me it's not about how much my potential mate makes or how educated he is, because I've met plenty of well educated and financially well off jerks.
For me the biggest questions are, can we run a household together and can we raise children together? It doesn't matter who is the breadwinner or who has the most degrees, it's about us being able to share responsibility without killing each other.
Several of my family members have been in IRRs, including my mother, and she's taught me that ALL men are the same, either they're good or they're bad; either they'll make a good father or they won't.
The article is kind of saying what I've read before, so it didn't really shed any light on the subject of IRR, but it was interesting to hear of sisters from other countries and cultures besides the US. And I like the fact that they included something from a white woman.
I wonder if there are any articles from the perspective of men dating out or opposing it?
I'll do some research and if I see anything I'll pass it along :)
Events manager and mother of two Kerry Jones, views herself as a ‘new age black woman’, who decided to marry a white man because she felt that she could not find somebody compatible for her to date within her own race.
“Let’s be real, if you are a successful black woman you only have two choices: date outside of your race or date other successful black women. And because I’m not a lesbian, I went for the first option,” says Jones, who lives in Surrey.
It seems that without the arrival of certain factors most white guys would not stand a chance with a black woman but being the last step before going lesbian? I hope her guy reads this article and bolts!
C-1, that's not true for all black women, because as I stated before I've always been open to dating out, it's just that I was never around them because of the neighborhood I grew up in and the schools I went to.
Those are the more pertinent factors to people actually dating out: Location, location, location.
A couple of years ago Chris Rock was on the "Howard Stern Show". Chris Asked Robin Quivers of she was dating a white man and she( said no wasn't(but she is dating a wm now, Jim Florentine). He then followed with, wm are usually a bw's last choice when she gets to a certain age and becomes really desperate.
I thought this was horrible, horrible because not true for all bw. But, I still love CR.
I love Chris Rock and he's a high school drop out, but he's smart. (Funny and smart is a great combination)
Those are the more pertinent factors to people actually dating out: Location, location, location.
Very good point
So I say this to say that bw have to be willing to go for a good man regardless of socioeconomic status, you want a man that’s going to be there love you, teach your children from right or wrong, and a protector
Jazzy:
I definitely agree.
However, I can not help wondering if bw are missing or passing on good bm because they feel they are not on their level finically, I hope that this is not the case, but in some conversations that I have had with bw this seems to be there main reasons for dating out.
I don't know I know my husband was not exactly rich when we met. He was making $13/hour and going to school. He wasn't going to be able to take me away for a whirlwind vacation on his salary. I will also note my husband has lived on his own since he was 17 and he is a high school drop out, he holds a GED . He to community college, transferred to a university and eventually got his bachelor's degree. I was making slightly more than him when we met, but now he makes twice as much as I do, at least when I am working LOL. My point is to say, I don't think economics and educational attainment is the only factor as to why black women are dating white men.
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As for me, I keep getting told that I intimidate BM...actually, I intimidate most men, period.
Diosanegra:
I have been told the same thing. I can come on kind of strong though, my poor husband has learned this from experience, of course I got it from my momma and she married a black man, so I guess she didn't intimidate all black men, my dad stuck around :)
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I did not resort to dating a non-bm; my mother introduced us.
h sofia:
I really hate that misnomer, it is used so often in explaining why BW date and marry non black men. It never ever seems to be because a BW liked a non black man. She had to be rejected and desperate to finally settle with a white man. It is really annoying, some of us actually like white guys LOL It is that whole "black women are so undesirable even their own men don't want them, and the men who do want them are no good, so they have to make do with other men" diatribe.
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I would prefer a man with the same socio-economic level as myself. And/or a man who has similar interests. I have two degrees and would like a guy who has some form of higher education or who values knowledge.
Geekgrl:
I figured I would marry someone with similar interests as well, we have somewhat the same morals, but our interests are completely different. It is still working 9 years together, but I am not saying it is always easy LOL
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It's not unreasonable for black women to want a man who has at least as much to "offer" as they do. Nothing wrong with wanting an educated, informed, or skillful man.
lareinacobre:
I think that is what most women, regardless of race wants. I know many times it seems that men feel that it is an obligation to have a woman, and that a woman should be excited a man even wants her, regardless or not if they have anything to offer. I have met 50 something year old men who live at home with their mammas have a list of requirements for the women they want, or I have met men with three kids refuse to date a woman who has children herself. You also get the infamous overweight, unattractive guy demand his woman be in shape and look like a model. It is just crazy to me.
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Well for me personally I am open to meeting a good man of any race or ethnicity. I have been attracted to men of all ages, races, and even body types. What all the men have in common were certain personality traits and a good work ethic.
Minoritygirl:
That is what most women should be doing. It seems many times a lot of women and men have this long list of demands and they have a hard time finding folks who fit the criteria.
I wonder if there are any articles from the perspective of men dating out or opposing it?
I couldn't find one, it is always about black women liking white men. I think the reality is white guys for the most part don't find black women the ideal women, at least at this message board :(
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It seems that without the arrival of certain factors most white guys would not stand a chance with a black woman but being the last step before going lesbian? I hope her guy reads this article and bolts!
C1:
Not all of us are like that, I would say the majority of women who date IR are not using non black men as a last resort. Some of us actually think white guys are cute LOL
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Those are the more pertinent factors to people actually dating out: Location, location, location.
Minoritygirl:
Most definitely a factor. I know even though I grew up in predominantly white settings, they were very conservative. I know many white people told me growing up, it was against God for the races to mix, it wasn't until my family moved to the dallas area did it even occur to me that it would be ok to have a white boy as a boyfriend. Once I realized that it was ok, no one was going to hell, and white guys would actually ask me out, did I realize that there are people open to dating other races.
I stopped reading the article after the first sentence. I didn't marry my husband because there was a shortage of black men. Sheesh.
C-1, do you know of any other white men who feel the way you do about black women and would you consider like doing a poll or gee, I can't think of the right word, but me and Siddity found a lack of articles about IR dating from the perspective of white men.
I mean there should be more articles from the perspective of white men and it's like none to zil.
I don't know if I made any sense, but I think you get what I mean, right?
"Once I realized that it was ok, no one was going to hell, and white guys would actually ask me out, did I realize that there are people open to dating other races."
I'm a late bloomer, I didn't come out of my "black hole" (living in a black neighborhood, going to black schools, and black churches) until college. Unfortunately, the college mostly consisted of conservative WASP, I mean a lot of my white classmates had never seen a black person in real life (I don't make this stuff up). Being used to being around black folk I was quickly turned off by all the questions about my hair, culture, and what not, so I mostly stayed with the few blacks there and traded horror stories. I even helped speak against this racist professor in the English department and he was quickly fired.
Now this whole time, I was secretly harboring a jones for white men. I say secret, because most of the people outside of my mother and grandmother either strongly opposed IRR w/white men, or just thought it was weird like dating an alien. Then going to college most of the white guys there only liked the ultra skinny "european-looking" black girls.
One time while waiting in line for a pizza, this white guy called me and my friend Aunt Jemima. I had his ass written up, but it hurt because it was so random and unneccessary.
When I left that college, I went through a militant phase and said ALL WHITE PEOPLE SUCK.
Then I went to acting school in New York. The white people there of course were more liberal and they were so much nicer to me and I made some good friends there. I remember a really deep discussion I had with my scene partner. We were doing a scene from a Lanford Wilson play about an interracial couple. We fucking rocked that scene, we got rave reviews. We never hooked up though, but it was all good because I had never been honest with a white person like that before and we really connected. So that dude really changed my perspective in a healthy way about white people and about white men.
Every woman I have dated from different ethnicity has had family issues with me. Almost typically I get the "I don't approve of you dating my daughter/sister" and every time I respond with "I don't require your approval" I think alot of this has come as a surprise as I am not the typical "White Boy" as most of us arn't.
I am a high school drop out. GED grad. I have made six figures. I invest regularly in Gold and Silver. I don't tell people any of this. Some of the smartest people I know are uneducated in the traditional sense of the word, and most of them will never have to worry about money. Also I have know skilled trades workers that make 30-50$ an hour, and thats in the midwest. I know the same trade workers make double that on the east and west coast.
I commonly refer to college grads as dumb smart people. Because most of them don't really learn anything. They learned the curriculum to graduate. Unlike most of you fine readers of this blog who take the time to develope an educated opinion. But how many of you with bachelors degrees have had fellow student that you know should not graduate?
When I confront family member it always start adversarily, and alot of it has to do with my lack of a traditional education. But, it immediatly become ok when they realize I am not one to be trifled with. Its about self respect, and if you have it others will respect you.
C-1, do you know of any other white men who feel the way you do about black women and would you consider like doing a poll or gee, I can't think of the right word, but me and Siddity found a lack of articles about IR dating from the perspective of white men.
Hmmm. Nothing that I've ever found on the internet, as far as guys in San Francisco? I dont really know.. possibly
I couldn't find one, it is always about black women liking white men. I think the reality is white guys for the most part don't find black women the ideal women, at least at this message board :(
This is why C1 exists :)
Now this whole time, I was secretly harboring a jones for white men. I say secret, because most of the people outside of my mother and grandmother either strongly opposed IRR w/white men, or just thought it was weird like dating an alien. Then going to college most of the white guys there only liked the ultra skinny "european-looking" black girls.
I was scared to death to tell anyone I dated white guys, white or black. I remember the first white guy I dated in high school, my white friends were like you can't be serious, what about his parents, as if me getting a white guy would be a step up, but for him it would be a step down? Ironically, his parents didn't seem to mind, they like me, I was consider good kid, plus they knew my mom as he was a student in her class, yeah my mom taught at the high school I went to, I got away with nothing. My parents, particularly my mom, like the guy, but at that point they assumed my white man loving was a phase, so they were cool with it. When I went to prom the same thing, it rocked the school, because the guy was actually popular, but he was a really cool guy, we got along, and went to prom, and started dating until the end of school. If you can call hanging out in grocery store parking lots and hanging outside of clubs dating.
Even when I went to college and went through my militant phase I was scared as hell to tell my black friends I had dated white guys in the past, even though I swore them off. The ridicule when some found out was horrible, it was like flashbacks of middle school, being called Oreo and white girl. Some of my friends were great, I had really pissed off this black guy that I had considered dating, I was then considered damaged goods to him. When I did actually start dating my husband, I was accosted by some black guys and got a come to Jesus about how he was only using me for sex and how he would never show me to his family.
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Every woman I have dated from different ethnicity has had family issues with me. Almost typically I get the "I don't approve of you dating my daughter/sister" and every time I respond with "I don't require your approval" I think alot of this has come as a surprise as I am not the typical "White Boy" as most of us arn't.
Casper:
Why you fighting folks parents? I would have been scared to bring you home to my daddy if I knew you was like that LOL
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This is why C1 exists :)
YAY!!!!!
That wm or lesbianism quip was a killer but that reflects why SOME bw go into IRRs just as WWSuck reflects why some wm do. Maybe that should be a new question on the dating site. Why are you IR dating? "Because I am unsatisfied with the men/women of my own race and am forced to look elsewhere."
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Siditty,
I saw that sciforums link a few years ago. I feel that the evangelicals MUST have come across this and other sites like it since they are so intensely searching for the opinions of white men. But if you allude to things like this, you are "discouraging bw". My thought is, why feed them lies about there being "far more wm interested in bw than they are bw interested in wm" "wm don't approach bw b/c they don't think we're interested". It's just not true. Are there white men out there who like black women and will actually enter into meaningful relationships with them. Absolutely. Are there enough to meet the demand? I'd like to say yes, but nothing I've seen so far makes me think so. To borrow a phrase from the evangeicals- bw need to cast a wider net indeed.
You know me LOL pissed off at the world.
seriously though, I always found it better to get the ugly stuff out of the way first. Afterwards I have always gotten along famously. When I was dating this hindu girl they have a tradition of kneeling down to touch their parent feet. That was an issue for me. But after the dad had a couple of pints w/ me on ST. Pattys it was cool. He was willing to participate in my culture, so I returned in kind.
Oh, I forgot to add that I think despite these oft-repeated myth about the myriads of interested white men out there who are too nervous to approach black women, a lot of bw are aware of this to an extent. But they would rather police other blogs and wail that the only reason wm aren't stepping up is because some other bw turned them off of us. Lame.
"It seems that without the arrival of certain factors most white guys would not stand a chance with a black woman but being the last step before going lesbian? I hope her guy reads this article and bolts!"
LOL! You forget about those that have a preferance/inclination for WM. I did not know that BM were highly desirable until I came to America.
Mhen, some times I wish I was into the BM, I would have no problems switching dates esp with the Africa men that have not completely bought into the BHBE standard.
Didn't that Kerry Jones quote show up in that fake Serena Williams interview? And Adam White is a... rather unsavory character, putting it mildly. Part of the advice in his book includes mimicking the clothing style of white women (which is monolithic, I guess... no difference between Nicole Kidman and Amy Lee's sartorial stylings at all) and distancing oneself from black people and "black interests" in public spaces.
"To borrow a phrase from the evangeicals- bw need to cast a wider net indeed."
What does this mean from your perspective, Yan? I've seen the sciforums thread before, among many, many, many other forum threads & personals from many different types of men where the same sentiments dominate, and sometimes I wonder who in the hell does our potential non-black dating pool consist of, because there are so many men who really don't want any part in it.
I did find this blog posting on this guys experience with dating a black girl, but it is full of stereotypes and the comments are full of nonsense.
Status-conscious yuppie troglodytes like that usually want nothing to do with BFs -- note the "dating black chicks is so beta" comments -- and I, for one couldn't be happier about that development.
I read the dude's post from the other blog site.
The money shot was this line:
"Plus, it made finding the mess easier for cleanup."
I retract my idea from earlier, if this is what other white men think of black women, I sure as hell don't wanna read about it.
So this guy thinks there's nothing wrong with saying someone's skin color is a convenience for cleaning up cum. Nice, real nice. The fucking asshole!!!
Roslyn said:
I suspect that many black men are taking advantage of the 'numbers game' and having a great time of it. More power to them, but if a black woman is interested in marrying and having a family it is in her best interest to cast as wide a net as possible. Narrowing her focus to such a tiny percentage of the population is quite foolish IMO.
Amen to that!
Ava said:
I personally prefer professional men and I am beginning to date white men because I want to broaden my horizons. Regarding dating the blue collar black man, I have 2 girlfriends who are nice, college educated and beautiful. They dont really care about the whole blue collar or professional thing (like I do). They dated blue collar black men and got treated terribly. I am not saying that all black men are like that. However, let's get off of that notion that just because a man is blue collar that he is going to be a better man. MOST black men feel that they have a lot of options and they exercise them whether they blue or white collar.
C-1 says:
It seems that without the arrival of certain factors most white guys would not stand a chance with a black woman but being the last step before going lesbian? I hope her guy reads this article and bolts!
Ava says:
C-1, I have always been somewhat attracted to white men but never wanted to go there. Then I started seeing all of these interracial bm/wf couples. Then at the same time I got approached by a white guy who I did not trust...for all of the typical reasons. Then I finally gave in to him and became as attracted and excited by him as I have been about any black man. A woman could love anyone! Just because I was too scared to go there initially because I was scared of what people would say (and his intentions) does not mean I dont have love for white men. I am no longer seeing this white guy but we are still friends. I have two friends who are dating white men. Both of them said that they would have never gone there but now they are with white men and very happy. It does not matter why you sought out white men what matters is your reason for staying. As long as you care for each other nothing else matters.
I must admit, i find these comments annoying. I am a young black men in college. There are plenty of black women who like white men. it is not because there is not enough black men on campus. they like white guys for their own reasons. mostly because we live in a white dominated world and some people men and women get caught in they hype in believing white people are more attractive. black women who dates black men and like black men are not likely to date white men. those who already like white men will date them. period. all the rest of the excuses about black men not being on their level is BS. and besides we could care less if black women date white guys. there is plenty of white women to go around. as far as i can tell they cant get enough of us so its all good.
. I am a young black men in college. There are plenty of black women who like white men. it is not because there is not enough black men on campus. they like white guys for their own reasons.
Anon:
I know when I went to college, there were way more white guys on campus than black guys, and the majority of black men I went to college with preferred white or non black women, and that is what they went after. I live in the South, the preference for most black men here is lighter skin, lighter eyes, and "good hair". I am dark skinned, with plain old brown eyes, and I wear my hair natural. I grew up in predominantly white areas, was asked out by way more white men than black men, and I am primarily attracted to white men, probably due to my upbringing. I make no excuses for why I married a white man. He was my ideal, and thankfully I was his. It worked out for the best.
mostly because we live in a white dominated world and some people men and women get caught in they hype in believing white people are more attractive.
I agree both black women and black men do this. I went to school with black men who swore up and down they would never date a black woman due to whatever stereotype and felt non black women were the complete opposite of black women. I met black women with the same mentality.
. black women who dates black men and like black men are not likely to date white men.
I have gone on dates with black men, but I have only had actual relationships with white guys. I don't know why that is. I think that there is in some instances a difference in ideas of relationships for black men vs. white men. I think this is due to upbringing and family situations though as opposed to race.
all the rest of the excuses about black men not being on their level is BS.
Not necessarily. If a black woman wants a college degree black man, her chances are smaller than if she chose a white man. There are more black women in college than black men, and let's face it, not all those black men and black women will mesh together, and a lot of those black men won't date black women.
besides we could care less if black women date white guys. there is plenty of white women to go around. as far as i can tell they cant get enough of us so its all good
It is good to know there are black men out there supportive of IR between BW and WM. You should definitely date a white woman, if that is what you prefer, and as you say "they can't get enough", so that makes things better for you.
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