
Break out the bean pies, the Public Enemy CDs, afro pics, the dashikis, the "Final Call", and the black berets. I am going through a black militant phase.
OK not really, but Miriam posed a question over at Soila's blog about black militancy and what it is. Since I am not the spokesperson for the black folks, I will tell you my definition of black militancy and how I deal with it. See how it is always about me, hence the name Siditty.
My militant streak runs from frustration and anger often times than not. Today my frustration was that it appears race relations are not improving, not enough to impact IR relationships between WM/BW. White men for the most part are so concerned about their namesakes and inheritance staying white, that to date a black woman is still a risk, and it seems that it is an obligation for a white man to even consider dating a black woman, and to me I don't want to be an obligation, I don't want to know how risky you are, I want you to like me period, damn the family name and inheritance. It shows you how truly racist this country is. These guys will go safe and marry an ideal minority like "asian" so they can get their dark features, but not get shunned.
Not to mention learning that your stereotypical features of black women, big booty, big lips is seen as a positive for white or other races of women, but a negative for me as a black woman. My husband's step father used to threaten him when he was listening to that dangerous, evil hip hop that he was going to have to kiss some "big greasy n*gger lips". I was told my hair was ugly, my butt too big, and even to this day I hear white woman walk around saying how gross Beyonce or J Los butt is, and how could anyone want that, as it looks gross to have such a big ass. I even had a coworker less than six months ago explain to me how white men could never find a big booty attractive.
I read stories, where even when universities give up on race based admissions, there is still talk about "reverse racism" and discrimination. It is incomprehensible for a black student to do as well as a white student. Blacks get their jobs on race quotas alone, never merit, and there is no need for quotas because every thing is great in America. The ironic thing is that me and many of our friends had the same conversations with our parents. Getting a "B" or "C" wasn't going to cut it, you needed an "A". You can't just do the bare minimum and expect to keep a job. You have to be twice as smart and twice as hard working to be considered an equal to your white counterparts. I had this proven to me at school growing up every day. I experienced this at work as well. My parents never told me not to worry because they had quotas set aside for me at any job I wanted. They told me I had two strikes against me. I was black and a woman, so I had to be better than anyone and every one else or I would fail in this world.
When I start to think about things like this, how horrible race relations are, how slow progress is in IR when it comes to WM and BW (not so much BM and WW, they seem to have no problems). I get a bit angry and racist towards white people. It is like a big let down, yeah they are even more racist than I thought. I must really hate myself to even entertain the thought of being around or being married to a white person. White people overall see me as a liability, not as an advantage, heck asians and hispanics can get a free pass, but I am still seen as the undesirable.
When I get to this point, I sometimes think, maybe black people are better on their own. Maybe we should just stick together, we are too hated, and people think so lowly of us, no matter what the reality, we will always be the bottom of the barrel.
I went through a particular black militant phase and even questioned my marriage at one point a couple of years ago over a five minute conversation with my husband. We were in the car, and I don't even know how the topic of race came up, as believe it or not, we rarely if ever talk about race. Anyway we were discussing how there is a white power structure in this country that gives whites preferential treatment. He didn't believe it was all that bad, and that things have changed. I obviously felt different. I started shooting off my stats about discrepancy in the black and white middle class, working wages between whites and blacks with the same experience and education, housing woes, and how people still negatively view IR. He responded in talking about being the majority, and that if blacks were the majority, they would enslave and institute Jim Crow just like white people. I went silent. I didn't talk to him for exactly 4 weeks aside from "hello", "good bye", "i'm going to be late tonight" or something of similar ilk. In the meantime I broke out my copy of "The Mis-education of a Negro" and "The N*gger Bible" and read them from beginning to end over and over, and in my mind I was referring to my own husband as the "Alabaster Man", and feeling that he could never ever truly relate to me or show empathy for me as a black woman. What he had said had hurt me so much, made me so angry, my only solace and way to keep from beating him down was to stay quiet and stay distant.
I will also admit after watching "Roots" I do this on occasion as well. I will just go into my "white people are the devil" phase and think long and hard about myself, and reflect on myself to ensure I am not a self hating wanna be house negro.
This is my racist rambling. This is what goes through my mind when I am angry and frustrated with race relations. This is my way of dealing with the hurt of reality.
53 comments:
"I will also admit after watching "Roots" I do this on occasion as well. I will just go into my "white people are the devil" phase and think long and hard about myself, and reflect on myself to ensure I am not a self hating wanna be house negro."
Omg I thought I was the only one that did this. I swear you have echoed my very reaction. One time I was so affected by a racist movie I saw that I treated my white male friend like crap, then somehow twisted the situation so that he actually thought he did or said something wrong. He never quite figured out what he did but he apologized profusely. Till this day I haven't told him why I really got mad that day. Lol.
And it was so weird seeing the title of your blog because I had the EXACT SAME title on my current one. Then I changed it to "No Longer At Ease," the second book Chinua Achebe wrote after "Things Fall Apart." You're mind stalking me my friend.
I think this is the greatest benefit of not having a 'preference.' I know that the overwhelming majority of white men will either not find me attractive at all, or, at least, will never act on that attraction. And frankly, I don't give a damn.
White men, like black men, like men of all races and colors are simply an option amongst many to me. I took into consideration that there are billions of men on this planet and surely all of them aren't stupid.
There's something truly liberating in that notion, and I think it's the main reason I'm not angry with stupid white men and their racial hang-ups. Or stupid black men with their skin color issues. Or, whateverothergroup out there who doesn't see me as the fabulous human being they are. Their issues are not MY issues and I refuse to see it any other way.
Roslyn pretty much said it all.
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Dag! and here I was still posting at Soila, wondering where everyone went. I 've got to keep track of y'alls migration. lol
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One thing I don't understand is this: there are racists on all sides of the issue.
Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?
Why isn't it that they are creating a new thing that attempts to balance both worlds.
Sometimes I think of marriage and how some people view it is thw same as in Zod and his friends trying to understand "Love" in the old movie "Superman": all they could come up with was: "...like pets?"
Now marriage is like a business proposition, money, prestige, etc. is at play.
But I think marriage is a joining of two souls, to create a new oneness. Its not belonging to another world. It can, if the people are all about conforming and "succeeding socially" or something.
(of course there are practical things to consider too!)
But I think focusing too much on these doesn't make for a good marriage in the end.
Make sure to read Michele Wallace and netflix Bamboozled & Drop Squad while you're at it. : )
And I don't think it's 'racist' to become aware of racism. How can that be?
Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?
____________________________________________
Miriam, interesting...
I'm friends with a few black women in BW/WM marriages, and I'm their only black friend. I go to their parties. It's me, them, and a whole lot of white folk.
I think for the most part, BW & BM leave the BC when they marry a white person.
One friend dated a WM for a long time. She never totally assimilated. She ended up marrying someone of another race.
roslynholcomb said...
I think this is the greatest benefit of not having a 'preference.' I know that the overwhelming majority of white men will either not find me attractive at all, or, at least, will never act on that attraction. And frankly, I don't give a damn.
Roslyn you are correct. This attitude keeps you sane. If we actually think about the type of vitriol we see/hear, we really would be mad all the time. I have to take a step back sometimes. Having said that, I totally understand where you are coming from Siditty. Plus, it sounds as if your hubby "gets" you.
BWU said:
I think for the most part, BW & BM leave the BC when they marry a white person.
~~~
Granted, I live in a different country and didn't deal with any of this until I got there. So I don't know how it is in America.
But I have black friends over. Or I go over by them.
True, I am not as much associated w/non religious folks as much. Is that what's going on?
That many of these American BW who marry WM are leaving a certain something within the BC?
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but all my friends are black. Granted, I don't have many friends, and never have. But the ones I do have are black.
"White men for the most part are so concerned about their namesakes and inheritance staying white, that to date a black woman is still a risk, and it seems that it is an obligation for a white man to even consider dating a black woman, "
And of course I agree. These are factors that can not be denied, even when some want to pretend. You know, I would love to see more Black women and Asian men couples.
Roslyn said " Their issues are not MY issues and I refuse to see it any other way.
"
Good point. Somtimes I get conflicted and I care what men in general think of black women, but for the most part, I'm starting to care less.
Miriam said "Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?"
I wonder sometimes if white men even assimilate at all. I just posted something that's already getting me in warm water :)
Sid sd:
"I will also admit after watching "Roots" I do this on occasion as well. I will just go into my "white people are the devil" phase and think long and hard about myself, and reflect on myself to ensure I am not a self hating wanna be house negro."
I get this way too after watching Roots, Amistad and the likes. I get so mad and furious that I wanna butcher every white person I see. Does this make me racist?
I have heard alot of white friends claim that we (blacks) blow things out of propotion when it comes to racial injustices. My feelings are, if we are going to have a race discussion, it's good to be honest and not take up for out "race" when we very well know some of the things we are defending are redunkulous to even the dumbest person.
If I am willing to admit the faults in my community ie. Massive bloodshed by Africans on other Africans or say the almost uncontrollable HIV/AID's pandemic in my continent, then what is so hard in admiting that there are racial injustices?
I'd rather have a self proclaimed racist who makes no apologies for being racist say crap to me than have someone who you think of as cool and you think sees only your humanity try and tell you how "Blacks blow racial stuff out of proportion".
I dont like talking or dwelling or race but it sucks to know that some people think you dont run your mouth about race like a NOI member coz you share some of their sick sentiments about how blacks are crap.
Ok, I am rambling. I shall stop now.
One last thing, A time to Kill makes me want to torch every white male alive :(
I dont think there's a movie that gets me depressed and arises my killer instincts as that one.
Miriam sd:
"Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?"
Miriam,
If this is how it works, I guess I aint ending up with a WM after all then. It would be quite difficult to "remove" me from how I was raised and have me "cross over" to the white side. I was raised in a very Western setting but I am still very African nevertheless. I couldnt be anything else and I am for sure not going to try to be just coz of a man.
Guess I'll be the first white person to enter the room.
*tip toes in*
"in my mind I was referring to my own husband as the "Alabaster Man", and feeling that he could never ever truly relate to me or show empathy for me as a black woman"
I'm sure your husband feels empathy for you but he probably can't ever completely relate to you. White people can't really relate to many of the problems of black people becuase they are so foreign to them, even if you explain they won't understand. I think you hubby is allot naive though, shockingly so it would seem.
I have a hard time taking most black militants seriously. Outside of Louis Farrakhan, who is one bad mofo, many of them are hot air. I had to laugh recently when I heard Quanell X, from your neck of the woods, is married to an Asian woman, that's not keeping it very real.
"Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?"
Becuase your a woman, that's why. The whole proposition is a sexist one. Men are allowed to though and they can still keep it real.
Now I'm leavin before the Fruit of Islam comes and gets me *tip toes back out*
Omg I thought I was the only one that did this. I swear you have echoed my very reaction. One time I was so affected by a racist movie I saw that I treated my white male friend like crap, then somehow twisted the situation so that he actually thought he did or said something wrong. He never quite figured out what he did but he apologized profusely. Till this day I haven't told him why I really got mad that day. Lol.
Emeritus:
I feel guilty after I do this, but I always end up doing this. I don't know why. Maybe I expect too much of people.
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I think this is the greatest benefit of not having a 'preference.' I know that the overwhelming majority of white men will either not find me attractive at all, or, at least, will never act on that attraction. And frankly, I don't give a damn.
Everyone has a preference. Some people exclude. I prefer white guys, but I have never turned down hispanic, black, or asian men as dating partners. People have a favorite soda, but most are flexible enough to switch it up every once in a while.
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Why is it, that when a BW marries a WM, its as if they've gone over to the white side? She's an assimilationist?
Miriam to many people in the black community, going to a white man is the ultimate betrayal so it is automatically assumed you have turned your back on black people and have assimilated into white society.
Now marriage is like a business proposition, money, prestige, etc. is at play.
Marriage has always been that way I think for a lot of people. People are scared of what others think, they have an image to uphold and image is everything to some people.
But I think marriage is a joining of two souls, to create a new oneness. Its not belonging to another world. It can, if the people are all about conforming and "succeeding socially" or something.
I agree miriam.
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Make sure to read Michele Wallace and netflix Bamboozled & Drop Squad while you're at it. : )
BWU:
I need to revisit Bamboozled so I can see Michael Rapaport. It seems like in every other movie he is in, he is married or with a black woman. Even in Bamboozled he was saying some racist stuff, and still with a black woman. I hear he is crazy in real life though, he stalked Lili Taylor. I've never seen drop squad.
I'm friends with a few black women in BW/WM marriages, and I'm their only black friend. I go to their parties. It's me, them, and a whole lot of white folk.
I think for the most part, BW & BM leave the BC when they marry a white person.
Me and my husband work a bit differently. I have my friends. He has his. There is only one couple we hang out with together and it isn't people we like to hang out with on a regular basis, (my husband's best friend and his crazy racist ass wife). I have more black friends now, than I ever have in my life. I hang out with maybe five or six people on a regular basis, and four of those are black women, none of them IR married. The white girl and Indian girl I hang out with, both IR date. I don't think to be honest I never fit in with the black community, I never fit in when I was younger, and it isn't like the black community has welcomed me with open arms, but being black I do feel that is the one true group I can belong to and relate to best in issues of racism.
I feel you on this. For me as well there are good and bad days but I try to reflect on the positives. I would have been so thankful if racism no longer existed in my lifetime but sadly I will not have that experience.
Nowadays I tend to avoid stories or movies that depict injustices -it can be tough dealing with these on a daily basis so when I have some leisure time I want to escape.
Having said that, I totally understand where you are coming from Siditty. Plus, it sounds as if your hubby "gets" you.
Thanks Maya, I know this post is kind of hardcore for me, in terms of my views of race relations, but it seems the older I get, the more bitter I become LOL
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I wonder sometimes if white men even assimilate at all. I just posted something that's already getting me in warm water :)
la msviswan:
Our society for the most part does not have to have them assimilate. This society, even though growing more diverse is run by white men, so white male interest is the norm.
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I have heard alot of white friends claim that we (blacks) blow things out of propotion when it comes to racial injustices. My feelings are, if we are going to have a race discussion, it's good to be honest and not take up for out "race" when we very well know some of the things we are defending are redunkulous to even the dumbest person.
Soila:
I would say this is true, but unfortunately it isn't. I vividly remember rodney king and the LA riots, I didn't support the riots, but it irked me to no end the amount of people willing to take up for the police officers that beat the ever living crap out of him, saying their job is stressful. Teachers have stressful jobs, but if the curse out or beat a bad child, they will lose their job. I can't justify being treated that way by police officers. Some white people are so oblivious to race that they have no clue as to what racism really is, because it really doesn't affect their lives on a regular basis, as it does for people of color.
One last thing, A time to Kill makes me want to torch every white male alive :(
Soila, I love that speech at the end with Matthew McConaughey when he has all the jurors imagine the horrible crime and at the end says "Now imagine she's white."
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Guess I'll be the first white person to enter the room.
*tip toes in*
C1:
Come on in, I won't bite LOL
I'm sure your husband feels empathy for you but he probably can't ever completely relate to you. White people can't really relate to many of the problems of black people becuase they are so foreign to them, even if you explain they won't understand. I think you hubby is allot naive though, shockingly so it would seem.
I understand that to an extent, and I do think that is where some of the frustration comes from, my husband is just really naive on all accounts, not just race. He's had a kind of strange life, but he is one who likes to pretend the world is perfect. He wants to give people the benefit of the doubt. He also hates conflict. He is one I have gotten angry with because I felt he didn't take up for me in certain situations, like when his mother took jabs at me, not related to race, or even when my own family members have. If someone says something to my husband, conflict be damned, I will say something, he isn't like that. I remember when we started dating his brothers, they were 12 at the time would ask me the craziest questions about being black and repeat racist comments their father (my husband's stepfather who loved talking to my husband about "n*gger lips")would tell them, at 12 they knew better, but in case they didn't, I wish he would have said something, he then got mad at me when I started talking crazy to them. I just wanted him to know how absurd it was, and he is one to say I blow things out of proportion, but again, that is him giving folks the benefit of the doubt.
Outside of Louis Farrakhan, who is one bad mofo, many of them are hot air. I had to laugh recently when I heard Quanell X, from your neck of the woods, is married to an Asian woman, that's not keeping it very real
It is funny it seems all black militants from Texas were married to non black women. We have John Wiley Price here, and he is the Dallas spokesperson for black folks supposedly, his first wife was white. I think he got concerned about the "white devil" after she left his dumb ass.
Oh and I am not glad to say the New Black Panther Party was founded in Dallas.
So, far I, Roslyn, and Siditty are saying we have black friends. I'm more like Siditty's case in which I don't think the black community ever really welcomed me, but I feel most comfortable among them.
But how did it become that a BW married to a WM, leaves again? Or was that the old way, and we are the new way?
re: Preference. I get what both you, Roslyn and Siditty, are saying and agree.
Siditty said:
he is one who likes to pretend the world is perfect. He wants to give people the benefit of the doubt. He also hates conflict. He is one I have gotten angry with because I felt he didn't take up for me in certain situations, like when his mother took jabs at me, not related to race, or even when my own family members have. If someone says something to my husband, conflict be damned, I will say something,
LOL You have just described my husband to a T!
C-1: Okay, so perhaps the WM doesn't assimilate. But he does acknowledge and deals with the black side of the family. Perhaps that's not "good enough" in terms of calling it assimilating.
But what does the woman do that's so assimilationist? Move into a white neighborhood? Job? "Act White"? Most times, they already have the job they'll be in before and after hubby, and the friends thing -can we say have been disproven by our small statistics of people here? Don't know.
re: act white. Okay I know one lady who seems to stretch out her lips to make it appear thinner. The first time I saw this, I wasn't sure how to think, whether I should eat or not, or run.
But I got used to it and chalked it to insecurity.
But most all others are very into their ways.
Soila -you'll love this one:
I have a friend from Liberia -she married to a WM, but she still cooks her Liberian food! Yum yum. lol.
Even I can't get away from my upbringing. I tried to cook American style for him, but it didn't make me happy and so didn't last. I had to be happy.
The others are American so I don't know how they were before they got married.
~~~
One last thing, sorry, Okay the biracial children. Everyone is angry about the race situation, but shouldn't folks be glad that biracial children are being made, who hopefully will shatter all the myths & hard holds that race has on people -assuming they are raised right?
Miriam sd:
"I have a friend from Liberia -she married to a WM, but she still cooks her Liberian food! Yum yum. lol."
That would soooo be me.
So, if I do get married to a WM, when we visit the village where my grandma lives, he'd have to go without electricity during the day because the power generator only comes to play @ night. He'd also need to know how to economize on water usage as @ my grandma's the water is caught in water reservoir.
Basically, I am not changing or assimilating into his "white side" coz if he loves me, he loved me as an African chic who owns her personality and culture so, why would I want to change into something else? Isn't who I am what made him want to be with me in the first place?
I'm next blogging on how people "loose themselves" when they get into relationships or get married. How people go around changing into what they "think" their partners want. To me, this is a major reason why relationships and marriages fail miserably or if they dont fail, this is 1 among the reasons why partners cheat. Ok, I am rambling again so I am going to go ahead and do a blog post on this now :)
Some of the things in your post REALLY concern me Siditty. I am not gonna analyze this like I typically do. I just have a question.
Does any of this help in a positive way?
From start to finish you just descrbed the perfect destructive cycle.
My father told me the exact same thing about being twice as good as everyone else in order to achieve success.
Soila said:
Basically, I am not changing or assimilating into his "white side" coz if he loves me, he loved me as an African chic who owns her personality and culture so, why would I want to change into something else? Isn't who I am what made him want to be with me in the first place?
And that is EXACTLY it!
When I started IR dating, I had no guide, no body to tell me I must behave in such and such a way; I must not talk of "chickens" lol, etc.
I only knew to be myself. And so I was.
The guy you meet will meet YOU, the woman, exactly as you are (unless someone is faking, but then they'll have to keep faking forever). And they don't expect you to be a WW.
My dh definitely does assimilate when we go to my home. That's one of the things I really love about him, he's pretty much comfortable wherever he is.
I'll never forget the first time he had a 'fish sammich' from Mr. Carlyle's (pronounced Ky-Ly, no I don't know why) down the skreet. These are whole catfish sandwiches on white bread in greasy brown paper bag, and they are seriously the best things you've ever eaten. And these aren't fillets, so you have to 'pick your fish,' which basically means you take a bite and pick the fish bones out of your mouth. (Can you believe my mama was letting me do this when I could barely walk?)
Anyway, we walked down the street, got our sandwiches, then came back and sat on my mama's front porch watching the sunset, drinking Nehi orange sodas and picking our fish. I was pretty sure at that point that this was the guy for me.
Oh, and movies about race and racial history don't really bother me, or at least they don't send me into a tirade against white people. I'm saddened that humanity saw fit to treat other humans so callously, but it doesn't make me angry.
I didn't care for the movie A Time to Kill, though I did like the book. It was Grisham's only decent novel and he agreed with me when I told him so. I really don't need a movie or book to hear about Jim Crow. Both my parents lived through it. My mama was almost raped by a policemen when she was eight months pregnant with me. One of her brothers died in the Navy in the Port Chicago incident and the other one was lynched when she was a child. So, yeah, I'm intimately acquainted with the perfidy of white supremacy and JIm Crow.
Soila: Most men are not unapologetic racists, so whats left? If the average nonracist male doesn't see the world through that tunnel it seems like everything is blown out of proportion.
Your kinda stuck.
damn roslyn. wow to all your experiences.
Roots, A Time to Kill, Do The Right Thing, and even The Color Purple put a chip on my shoulder (the way they did Ms Sophia...).
I tend not to think about the extent to which my black female phsycial attributes arent found attractive by white men - or any men. It definitely goes both ways. Of course I had my Bluest Eye times, but now that I'm grown I see that it goes both ways. I'm open-minded, but I don't find thin lips attractive on any man. I also don't care for light hair or certian kinds of noses. This is all probably a result of Freudian stuff and the way I was raised, etc, but while I'm open-minded Im usually attracted to black men (except for thin-lipped, stringy haired ones).
"One last thing, A time to Kill makes me want to torch every white male alive :("
Ok, that is pretty irrational. Remind me never to watch such movies with you, lest you butcher me and feed my remains to CAT.
This reminds me, Hollywood takes shit from just about everyone, but I'm not sure there has been a tool more effective in making people empathetic to grievances than the lucrative cry-for-my-plight genre. Which even affects me. Though I prefer actual history to Hollywood's version.
"If this is how it works, I guess I aint ending up with a WM after all then. It would be quite difficult to "remove" me from how I was raised and have me "cross over" to the white side. I was raised in a very Western setting but I am still very African nevertheless. I couldnt be anything else and I am for sure not going to try to be just coz of a man"
Same here, once a villager, always a villager.
"I must not talk of "chickens" lol, etc."
For a while at that time I thought I had committed IR dating suicide.
"My dh definitely does assimilate when we go to my home. That's one of the things I really love about him, he's pretty much comfortable wherever he is."
Roslyn,
Your husband reminds me of British and Australian tourists in Africa. mostly the back packers. These guys are so comfortable in the most rural environments that your average American would be squimish about. Its like they accept people as they are and try to fit in respectfully without any airs of superiority. I am always amazed by their attitudes.
Sid sd:
"Soila, I love that speech at the end with Matthew McConaughey when he has all the jurors imagine the horrible crime and at the end says "Now imagine she's white.""
Sid,
That was the best part of the movie. I liked the way the jurors opened their eyes after he said that.
*Crying my head out now*
Sid,
I believe in constructive anger. That way the energy is redirected and its less destructive to you as an individual.
Those movies do arouse certain emotions in me but when I feel that they may be destructive to my welfare I let them go or redirect that energy. And the best way to redirect your race anger is partly what you are doing. A form of activism or working in the community.
Redirection of that anger is very important.
Looking at the bigger picute, blacks and whites do have a horrible history in this country, but does anyone ever give thought on what the future of blacks is as the demographics start to change and the Hispanics getting into more positions of contol. If I am to judge by my experiences, black people have a very tough road ahead and just being angry is not going to bring progress.
Roslyn,
Its so refreshing to read your post! I love it.
Basically, I am not changing or assimilating into his "white side" coz if he loves me, he loved me as an African chic who owns her personality and culture so, why would I want to change into something else? Isn't who I am what made him want to be with me in the first place?
Very well said Soila.
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Does any of this help in a positive way?
From start to finish you just descrbed the perfect destructive cycle.
My father told me the exact same thing about being twice as good as everyone else in order to achieve success.
I was venting. I don't think I described a destructive cycle at all, but rather went through a range of emotions. If I told to blow off a joke or comment, I get frustrated, then I blow, and then I am ok again. That is just how I am.
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When I started IR dating, I had no guide, no body to tell me I must behave in such and such a way; I must not talk of "chickens" lol, etc.
That is why I get confused by the evangelical talk Miriam.
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Roslyn:
My dh definitely does assimilate when we go to my home. That's one of the things I really love about him, he's pretty much comfortable wherever he is.
My husband can assimilate in that way as well. He definitely isn't scared of black folks or anything of that ilk. Before I decided like a fool to go veg, we could both go down to Big Mamma's Chicken and Waffles off of Skillman and Audelia (i.e. the ghetto) and chow down. He is also cool with going to Oak Cliff or being around black folks. My concern with him is his lack of empathy and naivety when it comes to race relations.
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I really don't need a movie or book to hear about Jim Crow. Both my parents lived through it. My mama was almost raped by a policemen when she was eight months pregnant with me. One of her brothers died in the Navy in the Port Chicago incident and the other one was lynched when she was a child. So, yeah, I'm intimately acquainted with the perfidy of white supremacy and JIm Crow.
I don't think a Time to Kill was about Jim Crow. My parents remember Jim Crow very well. I was born six miles from a sundown town. I am all too familiar with Jim Crow and it's legacy. The movie to me tugs at you because you do realize that many Americans feel that way. They were eager to put this man to death because his anger at what happened to his daughter. They were more concerned about race than the motives behind his crime. The justice for his daughter.
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Casper:
The thing is most people are racist, even if they don't realize it, they are to a certain extent. Are they in the KKK or New Black Panther party? NO, but they hold certain beliefs based upon life experiences. Everyone does it. And the frustration lies with the argument everything is blown out of proportion. Instead of stepping back and looking at things, people are quick to say you are just upset, it isn't all that bad.
have a great weekend all!
Siditty sd: "The thing is most people are racist, even if they don't realize it"
The thing is most people arn't racist Siditty, Even if you don't realize it.
I understand that the cost of this statment is that you may not talk to me for four weeks, but its the truth.
This is how hatred perpetuates, and I refuse to be a part of it. I will reserve my opinions for the individual not the group.
Casper:
That statement won't keep me from talking to you silly :p
It takes more than that to piss me off.
TBT sd:
"Ok, that is pretty irrational. Remind me never to watch such movies with you, lest you butcher me and feed my remains to CAT."
Never said it was rational. I was stating how some racial movies can work me up. I'm most harmless when highly upset so you'd be fine watching such a movie with me. I'd cry through the entire thing :(
"Though I prefer actual history to Hollywood's version."
Real life documentaries get me even more worked up.
Siditty,
The thing is most people are racist, even if they don't realize it.
I would not go that far. I think most people are prejudiced/biased to varying degrees, as those Implicit Association Tests show. I don't think most people have the sort of active antipathy that is characteristic of racism.
I also wonder if we do blow things out of proportion sometimes. I don't feel like making a long drawn out comment about it, but often your expectation of how you will be treated can influence both your behavior and in turn, that of the person you interact with.
OK Most people stereotype and have bias. I will also say that making the assumption someone is blowing stuff out of proportion is mind numbing to me. Yes some people do, but shouldn't you step back and evaluate before making decisions on what is blown out of proportion and what isn't? What test do we refer to when determining when someone is blowing something out of proportion?
Of course it is not always a case of blowing things out of proportion and it's inappropriate for someone to make that statement in a lot of cases. But sometimes, the constant conspiracy cases I come across in reading this various blogs and comments are a bit much. And I think it can carry over into real life. If you are in defensive mode and viewing everyone as your enemy, it's not likely your demeanor will be one that fosters rapport-building.
When I have an encounter with someone that is not as pleasant as it could have been, "that ww doesn't want me to have any happiness b/c I'm black" or "that bw didn't speak to me because I'm not 'black' enough" is not what goes through my head.
I think the main reason why white men are hesitant to approach and possibly date black women is because they often assume that we aren’t interested in them romantically, that has been my experience. Black women have been conditioned by the black community to feel guilty about being attracted to white men (or any non-bm for that matter). Our loyalty is immediately called into question (how could you love the slave master none sense). And don’t forget our public displays on many talk shows; declaring love for only black men. I am sure they have witnessed all of this and they are convinced that we are not interested in them. I don’t know how many times I have heard or been told by wm that they don’t think bw are interested in them romantically. No man wants to be rejected by a woman especially in public, so they are very careful when it comes to us because of the fear that we will reject them.
The black woman and white man interracial relationships are relatively new so, of course, they are going to raise some eyebrows at first but people will get eventually get over it, like they did with other irr. I am sure that black men and white women interracial relationships (the most stigmatize at one time) had their rough start but now no one even bats an eye lash when their seen together and there seems to be very little stigma attached now, as well. The more bw/wm enter into relationships the less people will care. I think the black community will get over it because it will have no other choice in the matter.
“I am sorry to have to say that the vast majority of white Americans are racist, either consciously or unconsciously."
Martin Luther King Jr.
This is what I don't understand about this conversation on movies making you feel angry about racism...
Don't you feel that way everyday, by just observing the racial dynamics between folks?
“I am sorry to have to say that the vast majority of white Americans are racist, either consciously or unconsciously."
C1:
Who said this? Did I? If I did I apologize.
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This is what I don't understand about this conversation on movies making you feel angry about racism...
Don't you feel that way everyday, by just observing the racial dynamics between folks?
BWU:
I don't think it angers as much in real life, because in movies most things are made blatantly obvious to set a tone. In real life you don't have this on a day to day basis.
Sid,
That's actually a Martin Luther King quote
Oh man now I feel like a dumbass,I should know that.
"Don't you feel that way everyday, by just observing the racial dynamics between folks?"
BWU,
On a daily basis I guess some of us cannot afford to be constantly angry. We learn to manage the anger. With a movie, its a different dynamic working.
The cause of anger arousal is all concentrated with in a short space of time and you are in your own private space with all your defenses down. So I guess that is why people get so angry after watching such movies because they are watched when they are very vulnerable to arousal.
On the outside world you can't go off at every injustice you develop a stong defence mechanism.
BWU said: "Don't you feel that way everyday, by just observing the racial dynamics between folks?"
I am most of the time blissfully unaware or I simply don't care what anyone thinks of me or my skin color. I also don't notice racial dynamics between folks that much.
However, when I do hear about or see race relations, of course it upsets me. Attending a school next to Bel Air (think Fresh Prince) that is 70% asian, which is a veritable gold mine for the other 25% white population and knowing that many WM find you attractive but like someone said, won't ask you out because they are unsure about your preferences, then yes, I do get upset. I mean, am I supposed to nun it out for the rest of my school career? This is all I have to work with and it's very upsetting when your environment won't work with you.
But racism is usually the last thing I consider when I am passed over for something or something happens unless the slight/oversight is blatant. Whenever I do reach that conclusion, I know I am deeply hurt and often moved to tears.
But I am largely unbiased and unprejudiced myself so I honestly rarely see it in other people (maybe it's because I'm African). I know this makes me incredibly naive and I hope and pray that some vicious act of racism won't be what changes my mind but I do know that it exists. I'm just so me that my 6th sense for dishonesty and BS filters out most ppl who have undesirable traits.
I guess like someone said, you just direct your energies and anger elsewhere and the whole injustice thing doesn't register until you are watching a movie where the whole thing is less subtle and literally in your face.
I guess like someone said, you just direct your
On a daily basis I guess some of us cannot afford to be constantly angry. We learn to manage the anger. With a movie, its a different dynamic working.
energies and anger elsewhere and the whole injustice thing doesn't register until you are watching a movie where the whole thing is less subtle and literally in your face.
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grata & emeritus -
So you are willing yourself to become ignorant so you don't have to experience racism? But it's okay to get it second-hand from a film?
That makes absolutely no sense to me. It's not about anger. It's about acknowledgment. It's about understanding the air, the ambiance, the time in which we are living. How can we live in the truth, if we don't accept it?
I don't see the difference between a film and real life. It's the same to me. Maybe it's because I am always volleying from the real to the scripted.
I dunno. I've always have been an observant person. The things I notice most others don't until moments, or days, weeks, or years later. Sometimes I feel isolated by my scope and the scope of most others.
@BWU
I am not ignorant or unaware. And racism will happen regardless of how aware or unaware I am of it. Unfortunately (for you I suppose) my life isn't like a film where acts of racism is concentrated. Day to day life for me usually goes racism free. So in essence, while I am aware that the white guy over there just gave me a look, or the blonde chick I just walked past swept her eyes over my braids, I am not going to attach it to racism or let it bother me. I have to get to class and frankly I have other things on my mind.
Personally, I think so highly of myself (although I don't say it aloud often) that I could care less what someone of any race including my own thinks of me. I don't set out in my day to take umbrage at everything that smacks of racism or that might be colored with ignorance. I am not unaware. I am learning something from this pricey college I am going to and I educate myself daily, partly by reading blogs like these and blogs like yours. And everyday, I tell someone about what I read.
I do acknowledge the times we are living in. I do understand the air and ambience of this day and age and I do live the truth and accept it. And the truth is that I am a black woman living in America and to the powers of darkness and principalities that reside in dark places who control America, that is tantamount to being a piece of toilet paper stuck on the bottom on their shoe.
Do I care? Not really. Am I aware that at any moment I can be a victim of racism? Absolutely. Do I live everyday in fear of this future, nebulous moment? Hell no.
That's all. Because do not believe for one moment that because I do not speak of all I have experienced or choose outspoken 'acknowledgement' that I am not as aware as you are or that your scope is somehow better than mine.
Do I care? Not really. Am I aware that at any moment I can be a victim of racism? Absolutely. Do I live everyday in fear of this future, nebulous moment? Hell no.
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Golly gee Emer, your response has made it clear you just don't seem to understand what I am saying to you. I will blog about this matter soon. There is too much to say, here.
@BWU
til then, then
I think I can relate to what your husband said that upset you so much, in the sense that I may have myself said things that came off sounding similar, but the way they came out did not reflect very well what I had meant. Which is that whenever a group of people had the power to oppress another group of people without any consequences, abuse happened, as slavery, rape, serfdom, looting, you name it. People did (do) that to people of the same race and religion, and, of course, when the race and religion are different, that gives the oppressor an extra-feeling of justification. Power without responsibility always leads to that, no matter what color the hands that hold it. Justice is not innate to humans, maybe what your husband said reflected a general distrust in the idea that people are naturally good and just. Of course, I don't know him, so I may be way off.
Peace.
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