Over the past few weeks, I have become a youtube addict. In my exploration of youtube, I have found all types of videos. Of course I go to many videos that discuss race relations and interracial relationships. I have noticed a trend of black women who discuss their preference for white men, or even who support interracial dating, and the ugly backlash they receive from some black men and black women. Now some of it is warranted. There is some black men bashing, but sometimes it is just the fact the girl is with a white guy or non black guy that drives these folks mad.
The biggest response I see on these youtube videos, either text responses or video responses is that these women need to come back home, leeave alone the white man for he will use you, and the inevitable what are you going to do when he calls you "the n-word".
Yes, that n-word. Now, personally I have never been called the n-word by my husband. I don't feel as if he is using me, and I don't think I need to come home. I do wonder though what would I do if I got into a fight with my husband and he did call me the n-word. Personally we don't do name calling when we fight. I've never said he was an asshole. He has never called me a bitch or a ho. We just don't roll that way in our house. But if he called me the n-word, should I be offended? Would he be a closet racist? What type of healthy environment is it to have your spouse to view you or your possible kids that way? What does it do to your self esteem or conscious to know that in his mind, that is all you are to him? Does he have a stereotypical view of blacks, but think you are the exception, or does he lump you in with every other person who looks like you? If it did happen, would you be able to date interracially again? Or would you start to hold animosity towards people based upon this negative experience?
I sincerely hope I have to never answer this question, but I can answer hypothetically what I would do. I would have to roll. That is one of the one things I can't imagine I could accept. I can't accept if my husband called me a bitch either. I think my anger would be that nagging feeling that in the back of his mind he saw me as nothing more than a n*****. If that is all he saw deep down, then if we had kids, would he view them this way as well?
Has this actually ever happened to anyone?
In terms of this argument being used over and over again, why is this the first thing that comes to mind when people object over black woman and white man pairings? Do you ever hear the argument in the opposite scenario (black man/white woman)? Is it assumed white women aren't racist or don't hold the power. Over at grata's she posted a video clip and one white woman in the clip said that she liked the strength of black men and that white men had everything handed to them from birth? Is this the assumption? White men get a free pass and white women don't? Do they not benefit from a white power structure as well? Or is it because they are women they struggle and therefore are able to empathize with the black man?
25 comments:
Do they not benefit from a white power structure as well?
Yes. I try not to get involved with the power struggle between white women and white men because no matter who wins it equals oppression for me.
Some white women have convinced themselves that they're victims of "the evil man's" oppression. And they are. But what they don't want to admit is they've been oppressors themselves.
Or is it because they are women they struggle and therefore are able to empathize with the black man?
I've met a few white women who seem to think that because they're with a black guy that they're now honorary black women. WTF?
Fortunately all the white guys Ive dated were respectful and NEVER called me such a demeaning name. NONE of the guys Ive dated have ever called me names (bitch, fool, idiot etc) even when we argue. I demand respect and I get it, therefore Im respected by them as much as they are respected my me.
If a guy should call me that word... its going to be the end of us, and Ill probably do something really bad to him lol.
Yes, just why is it that this argument is never raised with ww? My brother was married to a white woman and every time she got po'd at him, she'd call him the n-word. Told their kid things like she was not black, she was "Italian", that God didn't love black people and they couldn't go to heaven. She'd use her "poor defenseless innocent ww" status to make false reports to CPS and the cops, call my brother's job and try to get him fired. It took about 10 years for CPS and the courts to finally see she was full of ish and they might never have if she had bothered to show up for court. But I've never experienced a racist incident with any of the white men I've been with.
"Told their kid things like she was not black, she was "Italian", that God didn't love black people and they couldn't go to heaven".
WHAT?
***************************
"Do they not benefit from a white power structure as well? "
I have spoken to some BM who think they have a special bond with WW since they are both oppressed by WM. Seriously. I spoke to one who thought the only free people were BW and WM. Many BM believe this.
The WW I met in Africa that dated only BM had an intense hatred for WM and didn't even want to have White babies.
I think for some of us its hard to believe in the so called oppression of the White woman. Even when they were "oppressed" they benefitted from the oppression of others. So how do we buy that?
The N-word would be a deal breaker in my relationship. I can't conceive of a circumstance where I would call someone I love a racist term.
I will have a relationship with someone who will respect me and even in an arguement, I would never disrespect him and I don't expect to him to disrespect me, but if he happens to use the N word, I am calling down Jesus and the host of heaven on him. I would never want to see him again, he has broken his covenant with him, it is over.
Thank YOU Yanmomma. I know a white woman who called her son's black father the N word when they argued. She even went as far as to refer to his previous black child using the N word. She even once tried to run him over with her car, and the cops let her go because she was pregnant. Also, she once got drunk, got arrested, and called all the black officers the N word. The excuse... they say it was "post partum depression". WTF? This dumb sick black male still went back and had a second child with her. This black guy would also be one to "warn" black women from the "evil white man".
Those type black men are full of sh*t. They just want black women alone, and in abundance for their own sexist disposal. They want us to be "used up" by them instead. Same old same old. getting to know anyone is like a box of chocolates.
But you know Sid, if "he"(white male) made the mistake and threw that filthy word at me, I'm afraid the following retorts out MY mouth might actually put him into shock instead. Just being honest.
You've been married to your white husband for a few decades. Later in his life, he shows signs that he has Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's seriously impairs a person's short-term memory: He cannot remember who he is in the present or the not-so-distant past, yet he recalls memories from when he was a young man, a teenager, a boy. As the disease gets worse, his ability to remember may go back to only when he was a boy. (In some Alzheimer's cases, a person who as a child spoke, let's say Greek, then immigrated to the US and had to learn to speak English, can forget how to speak English, if the memory loss goes back to that person's childhood.)
So, one day as you are caring for your husband, who has Alzheimer's (and it has reached the point where your husband doesn't even remember who you are, has not remembered who you are for a few months), and he blurts out, because he doesn't know who you are, “Get your hands off of me, nigger!” Remember, this is language that he used in his past, this is how he referred to black people in his youth, which is where Alzheimer's has brought him to in my scenario's present/future. He sees you as a black person through the “white” eyes of his youth. You never knew him when he spoke, thought, such a way about black people. What do you do then? Do you leave him?
My bf and I were just talking about this over the weekend. We went to a wedding, and gave a friend a ride there and back. While driving home, the friend mentioned that he once dated a girl who got into argument with him at a party and called him a "k!ke." He said he left right then and there and never spoke to her again.
My bf (Russian atheist Jew) and I continued the conversation after we dropped off the friend, and neither could imagine how a person could call someone they were in a relationship with a hateful name like "k!ke" or "n*****"." We've been together for three years, and we've had our share of arguments, but I don't think it's every occurred to us to use derogatory terms like those mentioned above. I'm not even sure that one of us could "mistakenly" utter such words - a result of both of our upbringings (although in different countries), among other things, such as respect for each other.
I'm with everyone else, it would be a serious deal breaker - and that's in the best case scenario.
What if my black girlfriend calls me "cracka" or "white devil?"
Some white women have convinced themselves that they're victims of "the evil man's" oppression. And they are. But what they don't want to admit is they've been oppressors themselves.
That is what I don't understand with the black men who assume that a wm will say such a thing to their black partner, isn't a ww just as capable of saying that in the heat of an argument. They benefitted and oppressed as well, but this argument never comes up when it comes to them.
----
My brother was married to a white woman and every time she got po'd at him, she'd call him the n-word. Told their kid things like she was not black, she was "Italian", that God didn't love black people and they couldn't go to heaven. She'd use her "poor defenseless innocent ww" status to make false reports to CPS and the cops, call my brother's job and try to get him fired.
That is too crazy. Why do white women get to use the poor defenseless damsel excuse, whereas black women are blamed typically in those types of situations.
-----
I have spoken to some BM who think they have a special bond with WW since they are both oppressed by WM. Seriously. I spoke to one who thought the only free people were BW and WM. Many BM believe this.
I've heard this as well. I have also heard some bm refer to bw as double agents for the wm. I don't understand that at all. I also want to know when we stopped getting oppressed? We are just as oppressed as anyone else, maybe more so because we are the double minority, woman and black.
----
I know a white woman who called her son's black father the N word when they argued. She even went as far as to refer to his previous black child using the N word. She even once tried to run him over with her car, and the cops let her go because she was pregnant. Also, she once got drunk, got arrested, and called all the black officers the N word. The excuse... they say it was "post partum depression". WTF? This dumb sick black male still went back and had a second child with her. This black guy would also be one to "warn" black women from the "evil white man".
La,
I so don't understand why she didn't get arrested, post partum depression and all. Mentally ill people go to jail all the time, why not her?
But you know Sid, if "he"(white male) made the mistake and threw that filthy word at me, I'm afraid the following retorts out MY mouth might actually put him into shock instead. Just being honest.
Me too!!! I don't know what filth would spew from my mouth.
----
“Get your hands off of me, nigger!” Remember, this is language that he used in his past, this is how he referred to black people in his youth, which is where Alzheimer's has brought him to in my scenario's present/future. He sees you as a black person through the “white” eyes of his youth. You never knew him when he spoke, thought, such a way about black people. What do you do then? Do you leave him?
Redcatbiker:
To be honest, I don't think this scenario is realistic. A person who even in their youth who would refer to all black people as n*gger, would probably not be apt to marry a person of color, as I think our belief systems are developed during this time, and even if he wasn't an outright racist, would a person who lived or was raised in that way be open to dating, much less marrying a black woman.
My husband grew up around racist (his 1st stepfather), but he himself never used the word, as his mother explained to him why it was inappropriate.
-----
My bf and I were just talking about this over the weekend. We went to a wedding, and gave a friend a ride there and back. While driving home, the friend mentioned that he once dated a girl who got into argument with him at a party and called him a "k!ke." He said he left right then and there and never spoke to her again.
See I don't understand why would she automatically go there in anger, unless she actually harbored negative feelings about Jews?
---
What if my black girlfriend calls me "cracka" or "white devil?"
Roll out. If your woman can't get beyond seeing you as a white guy, something is wrong with her. In my relationship, even though I am aware my husband is white, I don't wake up every morning looking at him and thinking, "wow I gotta cute white husband". Noticing the drastic difference wears off. When I am angry with him, I don't think "white devil" or "cracka". The times I ever start to question his race is when I have experienced a racist incident, in which I feel he might not fully understand, or when I watch "Roots", which makes me look at white people funny for about a week every time I see it. Even then I don't refer to him as "white devil" or "cracka"
I've never called him a derogatory name. When we fight. I call him immature, I tell him he is working my nerves, or to back up off me, but never do I call him a name, even in my angriest.
Wel, you see Sid those are allot of the same reasons an IR dating white guy is not going to call you the n word in the heat of the moment.
Siditty said:
To be honest, I don't think this scenario is realistic. A person who even in their youth who would refer to all black people as n*gger, would probably not be apt to marry a person of color, as I think our belief systems are developed during this time, and even if he wasn't an outright racist, would a person who lived or was raised in that way be open to dating, much less marrying a black woman.
My husband grew up around racist (his 1st stepfather), but he himself never used the word, as his mother explained to him why it was inappropriate.
===============================
Siditty,
Granted, for dramatic effect, my scenario may have been written a bit over-the-top. (Although, if you read on, you will see that such an incident can occur.) But, I have to disagree with you that a white man who would have, during his youth, called blacks such a word, would not marry a black woman, during his adult years. Feel free to call me naïve, but I do believe that [some] people can change, and change can happen in both directions. (I read a book, written by one of the children of a Jewish German woman physician who was sent to a concentration camp, and subsequently murdered there. The woman's husband was a goy; he, too, was a doctor. I think they had three children together. Because her husband was a Christian, the Nazis did not send her to a concentration camp. Her husband's Christianity protected her. However, he began to see her Jewishness as a burden, and his eyes started to wander in the direction of another woman; so he took away his Christian protection of her, by divorcing her. He was knowledgeable that divorcing her, the mother of his children, would guarantee that she would be taken off to a death camp. I think she was sent to Auschwitz. I write this as an illustration that a person can change. He started out loving her, but his love was neither compassionate, nor humane, enough to withstand Nazism. He probably believed that Nazism would last forever, as so many Germans did then, and decided that he did not want to be saddled with a Jewish wife in such an environment.)
Also, you might want to check out the book, “White Like Me” by Tim Wise. Tim Wise is what one might call a white anti-racist activist. In his book, he tells the story of his grandmother, whom he never heard utter a derogatory word about black people his entire life. Afflicted with Alzheimer's, she could not remember the name, or relationship to her, of many in her family. But, she was able to remember, from her training during her youth, how one was to consider a black person: She often called her black woman caretaker a “nigger.”
Siddity,
See I don't understand why would she automatically go there in anger, unless she actually harbored negative feelings about Jews?
That was the point I was trying to get across in my comment, but I missed the target! There's a very good chance the girl has used that word in the past, so it kind of boggles my mind why she would date a Jewish guy. It's like a person that uses the n-word or sp!c (or any other offensive derogatory term) in their vocabulary, may very well have negative feelings about blacks or hispanics or jews or asians, and may be more likely to go there in anger, so why would they date one?
I think I missed the mark again - please forgive me. Too much reading for summer classes!
My husband is White and from England. He makes comments such as "No one eats chicken with Macaroni and Broccoli unless they live in the ghetto." I called it a racist comment although he didn't mention Black people at all. He makes sweeping comments like that all the time and hates to be called out for them. I can't stand it when he says things like that.
"Roll out. If your woman can't get beyond seeing you as a white guy, something is wrong with her. In my relationship, even though I am aware my husband is white, I don't wake up every morning looking at him and thinking, "wow I gotta cute white husband". Noticing the drastic difference wears off".
Excellent response. In a relationship, almost immediately the color of your partner should never be an issue or at the forefront. If someone still sees you as a color, something's wrong.
I've known goo-gobs of interracial same sex friends, as well as couples who call each nigga and redneck, bitch and bastard, etc. They speak as friends or lovers who usually grew up in high-density multicultural neighborhoods, and are so comfortable with each other that the words have little or no power to be offensive.
Other couples wouldn't dream of using these words in play - or fighting. It's simply not who they are and invades their space and hurts their feelings when this line is crossed.
As usual, what works for one couple can be the kiss of death for another.
I don't think that word could ever come out of my mouth, even when I'm mad and not thinking, because its not in my repitoire (sp, fuck I butched that word). I mean for that word to ever come up, that person must straight up harbor racist feelings. I don't understand how someone can love someone but say something hateful about them. Personally I think that if you love someone then you definately have to love their race because cleary their skin color is part of their appearence, so for you to love their appearence, which I clearly hope they do for them to love them, then you have to love their race. Its not even a matter of respect, its straight up love, or your not being real. As for using bitch when your mad, well, personally I've let that word come out. No lie, but sometimes women do act like bitches espeacially during that time of the month. I mean I'm fair about it, I can act like an asshole sometimes, espeacially if were competing at something and I'm cocky. Its cool if I'm called out on it. Personally, I think that if your mad and not saying the word to hurt someone, and just calling them out on something its cool. But racist words just aint cool, cuz no excuses, your using the word to be hurtful.
JDR
Personally I think any one who would call thier partner a racist term is not repsecting them and should have stoped the fight before it got out of hand. because now they just lost someone they cared for but they have only themselves to blame.
As for WW being oppressed, Right they have benifeted from all ALL of the oppresson through out the ages yet they don't get looked at with hateful glares like the WM. I live near a native american rez and I get looked at as if I was the one who put the indians there, I'm soory but hey I'm not even from the state I live in, furthermore I have native american in me as well, all my life i have heard of the oppressive WM hey not all the WM were oppressive. the Irish and scotts were oppressed by other WM, the polish, and so one the ones who mainly benifited were the Italians and the british. My ancestors worked the docks on the east coast not able to even walk off the docks for fear of death, my great great grandma worked the cotton fields for less pay if at all then others. so for the WW to just think they Have a free pass and can relate to the BM and then hate the WM because of the past is a joke. WM did alot of bad things to every one but can that be said less of any other color of people. the blacks are still brutalizing eachother in africa, and america, the latinos did so much against each other, the asians still fight eachother over land and what not and commit tourcher that would have most people telling all. self hate is part of our world sadly and even worse is the racist people who hide behind masks of tolarance.
As for if I ever got mad at My Queen would I call her the n word? ARE YOU KIDDING ME, she means more to me then most of my own family. Why would I in the heat of the moment hurt her like that. I'm not racist nor do I care for racism. I think hating some one for any reason is wrong. Sadly though we have far to much hate in this world. Sorry I ranted.
Wel, you see Sid those are allot of the same reasons an IR dating white guy is not going to call you the n word in the heat of the moment.
Very true, but the point of my post is, why is it black men use this argument when it comes to IR dating between bw and wm. I was told this by lots of black guys when I started dating my husband. That and he is going to use you, and when he is done, you will come crawling back to the black man. It is like SOME bm feel that IR between BM and WW are ok, because white women have been oppressed, but BW and WM aren't because white men are the "oppressors". I definitely don't understand that rationale. I was trying to get some insight over it.
------
Also, you might want to check out the book, “White Like Me” by Tim Wise. Tim Wise is what one might call a white anti-racist activist. In his book, he tells the story of his grandmother, whom he never heard utter a derogatory word about black people his entire life. Afflicted with Alzheimer's, she could not remember the name, or relationship to her, of many in her family. But, she was able to remember, from her training during her youth, how one was to consider a black person: She often called her black woman caretaker a “nigger.”
I've read this book, and I honestly think it is naive to think his grandmother didn't have racist thought. My husband used to never think of his grandparents as racist, after all to be a racist is considered a bad thing, but little comments and things made him more aware, and he realized that his grandparents had racist tendencies due to the time in which they grew up. They say such things as "Jew Them Down", ask asian folks about Jackie Chan, talk about how the hispanics have taken over their neighborhood. They don't call names, but the sentiment is obviously there.
------
Chickpea:
Don't worry I got you :)
-----
My husband is White and from England. He makes comments such as "No one eats chicken with Macaroni and Broccoli unless they live in the ghetto." I called it a racist comment although he didn't mention Black people at all. He makes sweeping comments like that all the time and hates to be called out for them. I can't stand it when he says things like that.
That is just crazy. Tell him that white and black folks eat macaroni and broccoli with chicken all the time in the south. It is on a ton of menus geared at "country cooking" at restaurants here. It has nothing to do with class, but rather the region of the country. I am sure there are tons of people with tons of class who eat this, as well as we commit the blasphemy of drinking ice cold sweet tea. Again, not a ghetto thing, but a class thing. Explain to him calling stuff ghetto has a racist condescending tone, and unless he has lived in the ghetto, he shouldn't talk about what he doesn't know.
------
I've known goo-gobs of interracial same sex friends, as well as couples who call each nigga and redneck, bitch and bastard, etc. They speak as friends or lovers who usually grew up in high-density multicultural neighborhoods, and are so comfortable with each other that the words have little or no power to be offensive.
KIT,
The question is, are they fighting or joking? I don't think I could let anyone call me a bitch in an argument, but me and my friends will joke around each other using the word to each other. But when I am serious, I just don't get into that mindset.
--------
Personally, I think that if your mad and not saying the word to hurt someone, and just calling them out on something its cool. But racist words just aint cool, cuz no excuses, your using the word to be hurtful.
JDR:
That is my thought. Someone using those words are doing so for the sole purpose of trying to make someone hurt as much as they can, and to me, that means that person kept that in their argument arsenal when they felt they were "losing" the argument. The person used it as a trump card. Not cool.
In general I have been called some really bad things, never to much effect. I think the worst thing you can do is to respond angry, if you keep a cool head on your shoulders you can really do some damage. The worst thing someone can say about me is the truth, there is no recovery from that. Everything else just rolls off.
Yanmomma, I think that if she would have gone to court they would have figured out she was full of ish sooner, probably smart on her part.
I guess my response to being called the N****R (assuming I was black) would probably be dissapoinment. "THATS IT?!? That ALL you could think of??? Out of all the blistering retorts and all you can say is N****R? Your not very smart are you? WOOOOO you called me a N****R, your such a badass... F**King Rock, just get out of my presence"
Casper,
Yanmomma, I think that if she would have gone to court they would have figured out she was full of ish sooner, probably smart on her part.'
Unfortunately, that is not true. They were perfectly willing to strip away visitation rights the few times she went.
I wonder if Tim Wise realizies the only way to really get rid of white privelage is to really get rid of white people?
My grandmother is white and she has definitely said and done her share of racist things despite having half black children. She used to refer to my mom as the nigger of the family. She is crazy/abusive in general so I chalk it up to that and avoid her.
If you think Heaven is segregated think again.
If you think doing evil that others have done is fine, think again.
If you think your hate is righteous, think again.
If you think your thoughts and actions won't be called on one day, think again.
Oh man, may God forgive us. Because I'm tired of the devil trying to be a puppeteer.
Be in the Know. Go with prayer. Just may save your soul from the one who is trying to to take it using hate to keep it.
Post a Comment