OK We have Barack Obama as our Presidential Candidate. Many women were upset Hillary didn't get the nomination. They indicated that Obama was too junior or inexperienced. People like Gloria Steinem and Geraldine Ferraro attributed his nomination solely to his race. Even Hillary and Bill got in on the "he's got there because he's black" diatribe. I know many people at the Democratic National Convention were going to do everything they could to let everyone know that Clinton was their candidate. Some staunch democrats decided that they will vote republican if Barack Obama gets the nomination. I don't have to tell you why that is.
Now McCain has selected Sarah Palin as the Vice President in his campaign. She is young, relatively new to politics, and pro-life. I personally think she was selected due to her ability to pull the woman vote, which I think she definitely will. NOW was upset that Oprah backed Obama and not Hillary a woman. Those same women will be eager to vote for Palin, who is a self proclaimed Feminist, and a member of the Feminists For Life group. She is pro-life, and opposes same-sex marriage, but I have a feeling many Hillary supporters who are feminists will rally behind Palin. Those who don't want to vote for Barack Obama for obvious reasons will vote for anyone like not him. So I think this will be a very close race.
As much as I think Barack Obama is the best thing since sliced bread, the republicans are using some great strategy to get those feminist and pro-women voters as well as the voters not so crazy about Barack Obama.
The republicans have drawn the line in the sand. It will now be a campaign of race vs. gender. CNN and other stations will be going to black hair salons every where to ask the black women if they are torn and how will they vote.
63 comments:
CNN and other stations will be going to black hair salons every where to ask the black women if they are torn and how will they vote.
this drives me nuts, contrary to popular (racist coontastic) belief black people do not spend all their time in salons/barbershops!
I was thinking the same when I heard that McCains VP was gonna be a woman. They're trying to pull in the women votes.
Its ridiculous that someone would vote for the next president just because their VP happens to be of the same sex
It is brilliant and the whole thing is there to counteract the shine on Obama:
She's got an interesting backstory.
She's been all over the Republicans in her state because of ethics. That helps the party's effort to show that it's cleaning up its act after they lost control of Congress because of all those scandals.
It appeals to the angry Clinton supporters that think a woman should be President before any man or woman of any other group. I thought that reeked of the uproar over voting rights when black men were enfranchised before white women.
It partially negates the argument over whether or not black people voting for a black man is racist. If all those women that said they would vote for McCain jump ship, they can't be accused of being sexist.
In Palin, they have just enough diversity to show they're "progressive" because of her gender, but at the same time she re-enforces traditional party values (motherhood, NRA, budget cutting, etc.).
It also freaks me the fuck out that she looks exactly like my friend's mom.
I wont lie. I am worried about this VP pick. I finally realised that there are certain PUMAs (hard core Clintonites) that Obama can never reach and this current VP pick is a gambit directly for that ilk. I suspect that deep down inside these PUMAs are resentful of the fact that the woman who will be sleeping with the president is a Black woman. They are used to f***ing Power, they see it as their sole right. They hate that the kids that the whole world is fawning over are a Black woman's children. They HATE it. You know the Black woman is supposed to be the perenial best friend but never the main act. With Michelle as the First Lady and Jill Biden as the 2nd everything these women thought of themselves has been swept away……Now enter the pretty cookie-cutter from Alaska. The PUMAs can claim their feminism back without owning their racism…well, well,well…Geraldine Ferraro alert.
Forget that she is running on the ticket that wants WAR WAR WAR and thinks that the economy is a-okay and doesn't care about your healthcare, at least these PUMAs will be f***ing power again and that is all that matters
Anon again
I was so fricking tired of the whole white woman vs. black man dialogue that was shaping this election cycle and I thought after the primaries it would be over but now here we are again.
Also I think that the DEMs can hit back on this by reminding everyone how old McCain is. Basically if McCain were to conk out tomorrow (he has already battled cancer 4 times) then this lady would be President. They should ask the general populace if that is really what they want?
please define PUMA
I could understand being upset Hill didn't win, but they are taking this too far, and their true colors are showing.
White women just happened to cleverly find a way to hide behind gender to disguise their racism and bigotry in this. I agree these particular white women will vindictively flock over at the McCain camp out of spite, even if he didn't pick a woman. They were threatening this before.
You know, I wonder where they would really stand if he had picked a black female for vice. Bad enough there's a chance a black woman will take the place of the first lady, for the first time ever. They hate that too, I tell ya.
They just don't want to lose their white privileged place on the totem poll beside or even behind the WHITE man. That's all this bull is about. Liars.
you would think that women would be pro-choice. here's an excerpt from the chair of NOW's Political Action Committee who said:
"Gov. Palin may be the second woman vice-presidential candidate on a major party ticket, but she is not the right woman. Sadly, she is a woman who opposes women's rights, just like John McCain.
The fact that Palin is a mother of five who has a 4-month-old baby, a woman who is juggling work and family responsibilities, will speak to many women. But will Palin speak FOR women? Based on her record and her stated positions, the answer is clearly No.
In a gubernatorial debate, Palin stated emphatically that her opposition to abortion was so great, so total, that even if her teenage daughter was impregnated by a rapist, she would "choose life" -- meaning apparently that she would not permit her daughter to have an abortion.
Palin also had to withdraw her appointment of a top public safety commissioner who had been reprimanded for sexual harassment, although Palin had been warned about his background through letters by the sexual harassment complainant.
What McCain does not understand is that women supported Hillary Clinton not just because she was a woman, but because she was a champion on their issues. They will surely not find Sarah Palin to be an advocate for women."
CNN and other stations will be going to black hair salons every where to ask the black women if they are torn and how will they vote.
They know not to waste their time. Black people vote for democrats at a rate of over 90% and I doubt many black women look at that white woman and feel she is "one of us" or "on our side". It will be interesting to see if NOW abandons their pro-choice platform to endorse a woman. Doubtful.
PUMA=Party Unity My Ass. I'm going to disagree on the effectiveness of this little ploy. Are they pissed now? Sure. Will they still be pissed enough come the general election to vote against their own interests? Maybe. It's a classic Republican tactic, ignore all the stuff we disagree with you on, we care about this one issue (abortion, gay marriage, whatever) so vote for us on moral grounds. But that was the game the Republicans had already started playing before they made this choice.
This is risky for them because they're placing someone with zero experience at national politics who actually asked what a vice president was supposed to do everyday. This is risky for the rest of us, because while a lot has been made of the risk of something happening to Senator Obama, the odds of happening to Senator McCain may be even better and the notion of this woman going from 2 year governor of Alaska to President of the United States scares the crap out of me. And I doubt I'm the only one. Admittedly the difference between the amount I'm scared of McCain being president and her being president isn't exactly huge...
this drives me nuts, contrary to popular (racist coontastic) belief black people do not spend all their time in salons/barbershops!
What!!!!!! I went to a salon like five years ago. As you can tell, as a black woman I live in a salon!!!
------
Its ridiculous that someone would vote for the next president just because their VP happens to be of the same sex
It will happen. That or that will be their excuse as to why they wouldn't vote for a black candidate.
-------
In Palin, they have just enough diversity to show they're "progressive" because of her gender, but at the same time she re-enforces traditional party values (motherhood, NRA, budget cutting, etc.).
Exactly. She doesn't necessarily speak to the NOW audience. She is a life long member of the NRA and staunchly against abortion, traits not usually associated with progressive politics.
------
I wont lie. I am worried about this VP pick. I finally realised that there are certain PUMAs (hard core Clintonites) that Obama can never reach and this current VP pick is a gambit directly for that ilk.
It is genius on the Republicans part. They gotta look progressive. Not only were the major contenders in the democratic political campaign a man and a woman, it made them look like the stereotypical white, Washington insiders. They had to diversify, and a white women would appeal way more to the Republicans than a black man.
-------
The PUMAs can claim their feminism back without owning their racism…well, well,well…Geraldine Ferraro alert.
You hit the nail right on the head.
-----
Also I think that the DEMs can hit back on this by reminding everyone how old McCain is. Basically if McCain were to conk out tomorrow (he has already battled cancer 4 times) then this lady would be President. They should ask the general populace if that is really what they want?
To borrow Yanmomma's term. Some folks do have the ABB syndrome, anything but black.
-------
please define PUMA
It stands for the group Party Unity My Ass. It was organized by Clinton supporters after she dropped out of the race. They refuse to accept Obama as the Democratic candidate. They have been very vocal. There is also the "Just Say No Deal" and Clinton 4 McCain folks who plan to vote republican, as Obama is so inexperienced and has single handedly ruined the democratic party in their minds.
------
I could understand being upset Hill didn't win, but they are taking this too far, and their true colors are showing.
I agree. I wonder how many Romney for Obama groups will be popping up.
-------
Emeritus,
At least NOW isn't trying to push McCain, they know better.
I'm sorry I know this is off topic but I'm completely annoyed by this comment I saw on a popular black blog
I was once in Adam’s Morgan and saw a Black girl dancing with a white guy. He looked exactly like the guy above and she looked like darkness. In my inebriated state I walked up to them and chanted “light skinned babies.” She said I was jealous, I told her “Jealous of the fact I could fuck the gap between your teeth?” He tried to fight me, I got thrown out for beating up a white man. Thank God I didn’t get arrested.
1. he is using "darkness" as an insult to her looks, because apparently beautiufl black women don't look black
2. he harassed a woman who had done nothing to deserve such verbal abuse other than dance with a white guy
All I know is I'll bet you Hillary is PISSED!
McCain's choice is so reactionary. He's taking his cues for Obama's campaign. I like the pick only because conservative pundits have to swallow their disappointment and fear as they justify a woman VP with less that 2 years experience as govenor of a sparcely populated state and zero experience on the global stage.
The women who won't support Obama should remember that a vote for McCain/Palin means conservative courts, never ending presence in Iraq, and the ever present stink of the party that gave us Karl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, and Don "stuff happens" Rumsfeld.
If feminism means letting my vagina dictate who I vote for, I want NO parts of it.
I would say race trumps gender every time out.
I was listening to radio all day and heard some analysts say that the women's vote is not going to be split that easily.
This woman looks good on paper but its obvious why McCain chose her and women are not stupid. Secondly this woman is Pro life, and considering the probable Supreme Court appointments in the next few years, not many women will want two Pro lifers in office.
When she was introduced, her resume was very impressive except for her history as a beauty queen. If you thought the Primaries were sexist, wait and see the attacks on this one. I was abit unnerved by her credentials until she spoke and OMG!
She has the most irritating voice for a female politician. Many people will be reminded of the nagging wife or mother and who wants that as Commander in Chief. I have only female Siblings and they are all older than me so my position was that of a nag taker, so I feel the pain of men when they speak of nagging. This woman has that incensant pitch that really gets to you and trust me, you will hear people reference it. Her speech is not commanding, I can't imagine how she would deal with an international crisis. She is credited for fighting corruption and Big oil. I get the feeling she nagged them into complaince by constantly complaining.
I know I sound like I am anti female but this particular one doesn't cut it, I now appreciate Hillary more. My Ideal female leader would be like Margaret Thatcher, even Condi Rice though she is on the other side.
Palin just squeeks.
As for Black women supporting a female LOL! Myself I am tripple trodden. Black, foreign and female so I need to prioritize my wars. White women only have to fight gender discrimination while we need to deal with the race issue first and foremost.
When that is out of the way then maybe we can join our white sisters in the gender struggle. For now we still need to be recognized as equal human beings.
Fighting gender wars in this society is too much of a luxury, a little Marie Antoinettish. If we don't have bread, how can we afford cake?
"White women just happened to cleverly find a way to hide behind gender to disguise their racism and bigotry in this. I agree these particular white women will vindictively flock over at the McCain camp out of spite, even if he didn't pick a woman. They were threatening this before"
La msviswan,
Whichever way this election turns out, it will be very revealing. If Obama wins it will show blacks that whites are alot moe progressive thinking than we seem to believe. Afterall Obama does need a substantial white vote to make it. The Latinos will show their true colors by how they vote.
If white women vote for McCain it will set them back more than a hundred years. After years of trying to get off the pedestal that white men put them on, they run back to his protection because those minorities are meanies. And who can take them seriously after that. They will for ever be oppressed having discarded Hillary's achievements.
Obama may loose but to blacks all over the world he is already a winner. McCain may win but white women will be the biggest losers for many years to come. And for America life continues uncertainly.
At this point for me I am quite indifferent to the results of the elections.
"All I know is I'll bet you Hillary is PISSED!"
I agree. She did all the hard work and this woman just expects to sail through. Hillary's supporters would actually be betraying her in a way. The last thing she needs is some woman reaping from her hard work.
"McCain's choice is so reactionary. He's taking his cues for Obama's campaign. I like the pick only because conservative pundits have to swallow their disappointment and fear as they justify a woman VP with less that 2 years experience as govenor of a sparcely populated state and zero experience on the global stage".
After hammering Obama for beind inexperienced, then he chooses her. Obama is looking good in that area right now. There are Republicans crying right now. I think it was a big mistake, even if he ends up winning because they are stuck with her and him for the next 4years. That would be an interesting term. Which ever way the election turns out, its going to be interesting. Hope we all don't end up in hell.
McCain must have the record for the most self sabotaging moves by a candidate yet the election is still close. I am sorry but I can't see how race has nothing to do with it.
I used to be an angry Clinton supporter. But I only thought about and briefly examined McCain. I'm a staunch Dem. and will never switch teams for various reasons. I believe that many of the so called switched women will come around eventually. You'd be surprised how many of them are insulted that McCain is pulling out some little known female governor with anti-abortion mind sets in a pathetic attempt to steal "Hillary's women" from Barack. It's so sad, I don't even know how he could win after this.
Alaska has a state budget significantly smaller than that of many larger U.S. cities. Also, the population is comparatively the size of Memphis. She doesn't really know anyone in Washington and they don't know her. It seems like he's going to streamline her into his fold since she's almost a blank slate.
Also, do you think this will sit well with those who are concerned about McCain's health? If he keels over, Baby McPractice will be in charge...not a good idea to many Americans.
I agree heavily with Emeritus'informational post. I wanted Hillary due to a large deal of the effort I have put forth towards women's rights. Having a vagina is not enough to appease me if you have the wrong ideas for my welfare. I considered pro-life to be equivalent to anti-rights. Also Hillary would have most likely fought for equal pay and better forms of college payment. Both of which I need.
Do you think this "naughty librarian" looking thing is really going to provide most feminists (a solid core of Hillary's audience) with what we need?
I used to be an angry Clinton supporter. But I only thought about and briefly examined McCain. I'm a staunch Dem. and will never switch teams for various reasons. I believe that many of the so called switched women will come around eventually. You'd be surprised how many of them are insulted that McCain is pulling out some little known female governor with anti-abortion mind sets in a pathetic attempt to steal "Hillary's women" from Barack. It's so sad, I don't even know how he could win after this.
Alaska has a state budget significantly smaller than that of many larger U.S. cities. Also, the population is comparatively the size of Memphis. She doesn't really know anyone in Washington and they don't know her. It seems like he's going to streamline her into his fold since she's almost a blank slate.
Also, do you think this will sit well with those who are concerned about McCain's health? If he keels over, Baby McPractice will be in charge...not a good idea to many Americans.
I agree heavily with Emeritus'informational post. I wanted Hillary due to a large deal of the effort I have put forth towards women's rights. Having a vagina is not enough to appease me if you have the wrong ideas for my welfare. I considered pro-life to be equivalent to anti-rights. Also Hillary would have most likely fought for equal pay and better forms of college payment. Both of which I need.
Do you think this "naughty librarian" looking thing is really going to provide most feminists (a solid core of Hillary's audience) with what we need?
The PUMAs can claim their feminism back without owning their racism…well, well,well…Geraldine Ferraro alert.
Forget that she is running on the ticket that wants WAR WAR WAR and thinks that the economy is a-okay and doesn't care about your healthcare, at least these PUMAs will be f***ing power again and that is all that matters
I absolutely agree!!!
I don't trust McCain at all and I figured that he would pull a stunt like this. He loves to harp on Obama's inexperience, but who has ever heard of Palin??? She has zero experience in foreign policy, but if he is elected,she would be a heartbeat away from the presidency if something happened to him. Now that is scary to me.I know that this is a cynical attempt to get the Hillary voters. Many will fall for this and this will make the election very interesting. The question is, are people more racist or sexist?? Many Conservative Republicans will not vote for a woman, but they probably won't vote for a Black man either. This should be interesting..
As an avid follower of politics,and having almost taking it up for a living, I have to give credit where it is due. McCain choosing Palin was a smart decision-period. Of course it's reactionary-that's the mind game called politics. Obama is the same as Palin when it comes to experience, don't get wrap up in the illusion that it's not the same. And likewise, McCain is the same as Biden on having what it takes to do the job. Which will make this election won by those in the middle who just happen to be superfisially/angered/dividedly undecided over the issues at hand. So now we are running on best presentation of agenda upòn the issues-very smart in the end.Also, the PUMAs do have a pt in that there are many who wanted Hillary to be VP if not pres, and now-ironicly- she's going to have to keep on campaigning for a ticket she should have been on in the first place.The whole convention had a feel of compressed unity, in that women for Hillary were being made to something they did not want to do, but we are Women and are all to familiar with doing what we don't want to do. Now, especially if these boys hope to win the election they are being made to go right back to those they thougt they had locked up through "party loyality". So in the end, all that can said is may the best team win this debate contèst!
It doesn't, texasladybird. For most feminists, a "Feminist for Life" is an oxymoron (sort of like how the vast majority of Jewish people view "Jews for Jesus") and automatically makes her a non-option. Most democrats who really aren't Obama fans will 1) hold their nose and eventually vote for him 2) sit this election out 3)vote for a third party candidate who they feel reflects their values or 4) write in Hillary on the ballot.
As for the PUMAS, there really aren't that many of them, and the few that there are may not be what they seem. If you look at the contribution history of Darragh Murphy, one of the groups' leaders, it shows that her only past political donation was to John McCain the first time he ran for President. She also admits to having voted for him in the primary in 2000, despite her self-description as a "lifelong democrat."
http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/puma_pacs_founder_darragh_murphy_proudly_presents_party_unity_my_ass_redux/
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/pumas_are_swiftboats_darragh_murphy/
I would hate to think the women who supported Clinton would be as dim as to defect to the McCain camp just coz he pulled out of God knows where a woman who is a one term Governor of a state with more reindeers than humans.
Months ago I remember telling a friend of mine that McCain was going get a female VP, but he said, "oh hell no"....The McCain camp knew from day one that Hilary would not win the nomination, people are only surprised that he picked Palin, instead of the stronger/more experienced women out there.
If it were REALLY about gender, wouldn't those disaffected Hillary voters move their support to McKinney/Clemente of the Green party?
This is so telling and part of the reason I never drunk that white feminist Kool-Aid. They could care less about non-white women so long as they can be the only ones to share equal power with men.
@ grata
preach!
i haven't heard her voice (don't turn on my TV) but if it's as bad as you say...
i too appreciate Hilary more myself even though i never wanted her for Prez.
I was walking into a store where Obama supporters were encouraging voter registration. An older white woman, who I'm sure was a Hillary supporter, said matter of factly to the young lady...
"Don't worry, I'm voting for Obama. I'd be insane to vote for McCain!"
She sounded more like it would be the "lesser of two evils" type of vote, which for many it will be.
I agree with an above commenter. Either they will sit out this election, vote Obama, or vote independent.
As a woman I'll support Obama, but for me it was never about him being the same skin shade as myself. I know as the older lady did, I want to move forward...not backwards!!!!
Tiga
Grata I see I'm not the only one who thinks this woman has the most annoying speaking voice.LOL. This will be a very interesting Fall. I really think this move by McCain was very insulting to women. Like I'm now suppose to vote for you because you pick this Moose-Burger eating woman from Alaska? Its about the issues.Not race or Gender but I'm not naive to think people wouldn't vote otherwise.
well, you have lots of great comments here, but let me just say I think you are 100% correct on this post. well said-observed-written
http://jezebel.com/5043669/sarah-palin-when-choosing-a-woman-might-not-be-choosing-for-women
Feminists, mostly white, many of whom were Clinton supporters. I've been through about 4 pages of comments, and not one of them has taken the bait. However a few of them do mention women they know that have, and say that uneasiness about Obama's race + Palin may get some women who were "on the fence." Note, not "feminists", but "women". While there's overlap, the two groups are definitely not synonymous.
That being said, don't knock the moose burgers, ya'll. I just might have to try one out.
"Grata I see I'm not the only one who thinks this woman has the most annoying speaking voice.LOL. This will be a very interesting Fall. I really think this move by McCain was very insulting to women."
Jon Stewart is already onto her. When she spoke about finally shuttering the glass ceiling, he said something to the effect that something just got shattered.
She has come with the 'we women need to do this' attitude and I am sure even Republican men are turned off. That was not the way to say it.
I just love the way McCain destroyed his own "inexperience" argument.
Also there is speculation that her baby may actually be her teenage daughter's who took off time from high school for some equal months before the birth of the child. And her pregnancy never showed until the 7th month and her water broke but she had time to have a meeting there after and then fly from Texas to Alaska to have the babay. It all looks very dodgy.
Upset women: He should have picked Hillary, she has a lot of experience and is a great candidate.
McCain Response: I'll pick this woman that no one knows because she's a woman, even though there are other women that are far more qualified. Who cares, it's a woman and she has boobs.
McCain's choice of a VP is, itself, sexist and condescending. He chooses a woman that looks like she won her position in the lottery rather than in an actual election.
I don't even think this is about race/gender. This is complete pandering - a tactic solely designed to insult people's intelligence and garner the votes of people that don't actually think before they drive to their local voting office.
~~~
Despite all of this, however, the reason to be worried has nothing to do with her pulling in new female voters. For every female voter McCain gets, he is likely to lose a sexist male voter and an intelligent woman that sees through his condescension. No, the reason to worry is because ultra-conservative women are not going to vote in droves because they get their dream: A Pro-life, homophobic woman. There was talk that the Republican machine may finally stay home more often this election, and this pick virtually guarantees that isn't the case.
~~
Also, I'd like to suggest that the world simply ignore the PUMAs. They're probably not even real. They're probably some sort of swift boat, because quite frankly their entire platform is so nonsensical that it's hard to believe they can influence this election beyond becoming a loud and obnoxious force from a very small minority of voters.
This is completely shallow, but she reminds me so much of Tina Fey for SNL and 30-Rock. And not really in a good way!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tina_Fey_by_David_Shankbone.jpg
I was a Hillary supporter until she lost, so I am all for women rights. However, I think it's very dangerous to vote for someone just because they are the same race or gender, if you don't know one bit about their background or what they can truly bring to the table.
And it's definitly hard for me to ever imagine Palin as the Vice President, let alone the ruler of the Free World, if something ever happened to McCain (who is definitely elderly with major health conditions) What a scary thought indeed!!
It scares me to think there is a possiblility that McCain will get into office and continue the same politics as GWB. I am hoping the disappointed Hiliary voters will wake up and remember the last eight years and vote Obama. I will be honest and say that I am proud of Obama for making it this far, but if he did not support my issues I would not vote for him. I wish people would just focus on the issues and what is best for the country and not vote based on race and gender only. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics etc. I guess that is just me being too naive to think that would not happen.
I believe that McCain definitely made a calculated choice. But the Hilary backers are mostly Pro-Choice anti-NRA. I doubt that they would see Palin as one of them. Even though there is a history behind why she's Pro-Choice. Her 5th child-- who she gave birth to this past April, has Down Syndrome. She knew about this earlier in her pregnancy, but chose to keep the baby. This would make the Conservative Christians who are Pro-Life, really happy. Before, this group has been sitting on the fence about McCain. He's trying to pander to as many sides as possible. He husband is an employee for BP gas and she supports offshore drilling and going into Alaska wildlife as an alternative to conventional methods of drilling. So the environmentalists won't like her too much. Plus, she is under investigation for having her soon-to-be ex-brother in law thrown off the police force. She claims that he threatened her and her family, plus she doesn't like him for cheating on her sister. She definitely has some issues....
"This is completely shallow, but she reminds me so much of Tina Fey for SNL and 30-Rock."
In the above picture she reminds me of Mariska Hargitay from Law & Order:SVU
If I am asked whether I am torn between a White woman VP and a Black man President, I will answer emphatically, "Hell No!" I have always will be an Obama supporter. An anti-choice woman, who is Republican, wouldn't get my vote. This is a no-brainer.
GO OBAMA!!
What I find interesting is how the PUMA people are going after Michelle. If Michelle was white they would be filing behind Obama in the classic Black Man White woman alliance and they would have effectively stuck it to the "Pink" man. That would have been a classic combo and we wouldn't be having these conversations. And I doubt black women would be treating the White Michelle the way they are treating Michelle. Has anyone seen the Lost Michele tapes? WiIl find it and post it.
From people that have way too much time.
Michelle Lost Tapes
@ tenacious bree
Cosign on the moose burger. Elk chops are bomb, too.
Oli said: "Its ridiculous that someone would vote for the next president just because their VP happens to be of the same sex"
I think that its ridiculous that someone will vote for their next president simply because he is a black man. (er Half)
To be fair I also think its ridiculous for vets to vote for their next pres because he is a vet.
On a side note I think McCain would have been better off picking Condi Rice as a running mate, but I really do think McCain is racist.
Either way we have a new precedent being set regardless of who wins.
I have officially given up on voting. They all scare the hell out of me.
I used to be an angry Clinton supporter. But I only thought about and briefly examined McCain. I'm a staunch Dem. and will never switch teams for various reasons. I believe that many of the so called switched women will come around eventually. You'd be surprised how many of them are insulted that McCain is pulling out some little known female governor with anti-abortion mind sets in a pathetic attempt to steal "Hillary's women" from Barack. It's so sad, I don't even know how he could win after this.
I was insulted. I was wondering how stupid McCain thought people were with that selection. A virtual unknown with no experience at all, a strong argument he used against Obama.
Also, do you think this will sit well with those who are concerned about McCain's health? If he keels over, Baby McPractice will be in charge...not a good idea to many Americans.
People will take that risk, many people aren't open to the concept of a black president.
Do you think this "naughty librarian" looking thing is really going to provide most feminists (a solid core of Hillary's audience) with what we need?
LOL No. The fact she is a former beauty queen I could also see as a possible negative for the feminists still on the fence.
--------
The question is, are people more racist or sexist?? Many Conservative Republicans will not vote for a woman, but they probably won't vote for a Black man either. This should be interesting..
For many race will come before gender. This election has shown me you can be a feminist and a racist.
---------
McCain choosing Palin was a smart decision-period. Of course it's reactionary-that's the mind game called politics. Obama is the same as Palin when it comes to experience, don't get wrap up in the illusion that it's not the same.
I didn't know running a state that is scarcely populated for two years, and being on city council for a scarcely populated city is on the same level as lawyer who was president of the Harvard Law Review, who worked as a community organizer, lawyer, and who has seven years as a state legislator, and spent 2 years in the U.S. senate. I don't think they are quite on the same level. Maybe that is just me, of course to me, your mindset just goes to show in order for a black person to be considered an equal they have to go way above and beyond.
Palin also served as a chair on the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission, and she was also a beauty queen, does that put her on the national level as well?
The whole convention had a feel of compressed unity, in that women for Hillary were being made to something they did not want to do, but we are Women and are all to familiar with doing what we don't want to do.
Now you have to vote using gender to excuse your racism? Why would these women that supported Hillary vote for a man and a woman who do not have Hillary's views and oppose everything Hillary stood for? Either you're mad because you woman didn't win, and don't really care about the political stances of your candidate, but rather that your candidate didn't win, or now you have the chance to excuse your fears of having a black president.
So what exactly do McCain and Palin share in political ideals with Hillary? If you can answer me that, I would really like to know. Also I didn't know the feminist agenda was ever a strong supporter of Pat Buchanan like Palin was.
--------
As for the PUMAS, there really aren't that many of them, and the few that there are may not be what they seem. If you look at the contribution history of Darragh Murphy, one of the groups' leaders, it shows that her only past political donation was to John McCain the first time he ran for President. She also admits to having voted for him in the primary in 2000, despite her self-description as a "lifelong democrat."
Makes you wonder who the PUMAs really are, doesn't it?
---------
I would hate to think the women who supported Clinton would be as dim as to defect to the McCain camp just coz he pulled out of God knows where a woman who is a one term Governor of a state with more reindeers than humans.
You would hope.
---------
Months ago I remember telling a friend of mine that McCain was going get a female VP, but he said, "oh hell no"....The McCain camp knew from day one that Hilary would not win the nomination, people are only surprised that he picked Palin, instead of the stronger/more experienced women out there.
That's what I don't understand, does the Republican party not have stronger candidates to choose from?
----------
If it were REALLY about gender, wouldn't those disaffected Hillary voters move their support to McKinney/Clemente of the Green party? This is so telling and part of the reason I never drunk that white feminist Kool-Aid. They could care less about non-white women so long as they can be the only ones to share equal power with men.
Makes you wonder huh? I drank that feminist kool-aid, I used to think since sexism was an issue all races of women could understand, they could at least sympathize with racism. Like C1 said, race trumps gender every time for some folks.
------------
She sounded more like it would be the "lesser of two evils" type of vote, which for many it will be.
That's every Presidential election. If Hillary would have won the nomination, I would have voted for her, her ideals match mine way more than McCain ever could.
As a woman I'll support Obama, but for me it was never about him being the same skin shade as myself. I know as the older lady did, I want to move forward...not backwards!!!!
You think we all would want to, but to some that isn't the case.
-----------
Feminists, mostly white, many of whom were Clinton supporters. I've been through about 4 pages of comments, and not one of them has taken the bait. However a few of them do mention women they know that have, and say that uneasiness about Obama's race + Palin may get some women who were "on the fence." Note, not "feminists", but "women". While there's overlap, the two groups are definitely not synonymous.
True, feminist and woman is not synonymous, but you would think in this day and age it would be.
That being said, don't knock the moose burgers, ya'll. I just might have to try one out.
As a vegetarian, I cannot eat Bullwinkle :)
---------
Also there is speculation that her baby may actually be her teenage daughter's who took off time from high school for some equal months before the birth of the child. And her pregnancy never showed until the 7th month and her water broke but she had time to have a meeting there after and then fly from Texas to Alaska to have the babay. It all looks very dodgy.
To disprove that rumor, now we have the family admitting, the 17 year old daughter is now pregnant and plans on getting married to the father of the child.
-----------
McCain's choice of a VP is, itself, sexist and condescending. He chooses a woman that looks like she won her position in the lottery rather than in an actual election.
It seems that way doesn't it? She comes from out of nowhere, to the national spotlight in the blink of an eye, does she know she is a pawn in the "women voter" game. I hope women don''t fall for the trick.
Despite all of this, however, the reason to be worried has nothing to do with her pulling in new female voters. For every female voter McCain gets, he is likely to lose a sexist male voter and an intelligent woman that sees through his condescension
I hope so. I think republican men will still vote for McCain, but curse under their breathe at the thought of Palin as VP.
Also, I'd like to suggest that the world simply ignore the PUMAs. They're probably not even real. They're probably some sort of swift boat, because quite frankly their entire platform is so nonsensical that it's hard to believe they can influence this election beyond becoming a loud and obnoxious force from a very small minority of voters.
I tend to agree, it just seems it is a ploy. I wonder how many PUMAs really exist?
--------
I was a Hillary supporter until she lost, so I am all for women rights. However, I think it's very dangerous to vote for someone just because they are the same race or gender, if you don't know one bit about their background or what they can truly bring to the table.
Exactly.
----------
If I am asked whether I am torn between a White woman VP and a Black man President, I will answer emphatically, "Hell No!" I have always will be an Obama supporter. An anti-choice woman, who is Republican, wouldn't get my vote. This is a no-brainer.
I wish more people would think this way. Who has your best interests McCain or Obama? That is how the vote should be, not white vs. black or woman vs. man.
-----------
I think that its ridiculous that someone will vote for their next president simply because he is a black man. (er Half)
Do you think black folks are going out in droves voting for Obama because he is black? That is kind of insulting for us black folks who support Obama. I can say I didn't wake up thinking one day "damn I gots to get me a black president by any means necessary". If Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson by freak chance got the nomination, I might think about moving to Canada to avoid the hot mess that would be their campaign. Think about this. He is running on the democratic party ticket. Blacks in this day and age overwhelmingly vote democratic. There isn't much attraction to vote republican as a black person, that is why there are fewer black republicans than democrats. Heck if the democratic candidate was a blonde haired,blue eyed man, blacks would more than likely vote democratic. If he was a purple man with yellow polka dots, blacks would more than likely still vote democratic. That is just how it goes in America.
I think people vote blindly on political issues. They either vote straight democratic or straight republican, few people vote on the case by case basis.
"It seems that way doesn't it? She comes from out of nowhere, to the national spotlight in the blink of an eye, does she know she is a pawn in the "women voter" game. I hope women don''t fall for the trick."
Are you kidding? I am absolutely positive she knows she is being used and I think she loves every minute of it. Her political career is set for life now, regardless of whether she wins or loses. Most everyone in America knows who Palin is at this point where as two weeks ago I would have been like...Huh?
"Do you think black folks are going out in droves voting for Obama because he is black?"
Um sorry but I do. People are stupid, and the stupid gene is indiscriminate to race and gender. I am not saying that well educated and intelligent people like yourselves are going out in droves to vote for Obama because he is black, just the mainstream. Just the same as with people who will be swayed by a woman VP. There are people who support candidates for specific reasons and then there are those who just vote because they identify with that person. Sad but true.
"If Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson by freak chance got the nomination, I might think about moving to Canada to avoid the hot mess that would be their campaign"
I think I would vote for Sharpton or Jackson specifically because I think it would start riots in the streets if they got elected. I think America needs a good riot, it would be fun.
So you think most black people are voting for Obama simply because he is black. If black people wanted to vote for a black candidate, they could have voted for Jesse Jackson or Alan Keyes.
Heck women and blacks should vote for Cynthia McKinney as President. She is a twofer, but yet no one is talking about her campaign.
Are white people voting for McCain strictly because he is white?
Are white people voting for McCain strictly because he is white?
Yeah, some are, that's for sure.
So you think most black people are voting for Obama simply because he is black. If black people wanted to vote for a black candidate, they could have voted for Jesse Jackson or Alan Keyes.
Many black people did vote for Jackson when he ran. Keyes is considered a house negro, so forget about him. I would say the vast majority of African Americans vote democrat no matter what, that's been the same since Johnson signed the Civil Rights act. I would think Mckinney would be more popular, though whites would never vote for her because of her anti Jewish baggage and connections to black supremacist groups.
"Heck women and blacks should vote for Cynthia McKinney as President. She is a twofer, but yet no one is talking about her campaign."
There reason no one is talking about McKinney is because the MSM can only see red and blue. They can't even consider the fact that other parties even exist. The only other person they can think of is Nader.
I'm a Green and I like Obama but I plan to vote for McKinney.
"Many black people did vote for Jackson when he ran."
But what about Sharpton and Mosley-Braun? They didn't get much traction out of this presumed race loyalty. They were from the right party, too. Seriously, people act as if black people were 50/50 split between major parties and decided to vote 90/10 for dems this election because there's a black guy involved, when we've been voting that way all along. I will say that record black voter turnout is possible, but these are people that would've never thought of voting for any color of republican in the first place. I'll ask: is it just a hunch on the part of those who believe that blacks are voting for Obama based on race, or is there any evidence ya'll have? Polls, (because the question has been asked by pollsters) otherwise unlikely phenomena, something? Is it because eventually (months into the campaign and after much "why don't blacks like Obama?" handwringing from the media) blacks chose Obama over Clinton?
Siditty, and C1:
"Are white people voting for McCain strictly because he is white?
Yeah, some are, that's for sure."
I agree unequivocally. White people will come out in droves, that have never voted in their lives to prevent a black man from getting into the white house.
"I will say that record black voter turnout is possible, but these are people that would've never thought of voting for any color of republican in the first place. I'll ask: is it just a hunch on the part of those who believe that blacks are voting for Obama based on race, or is there any evidence ya'll have? Polls,"
Just as whites that have never voted before will come out and vote against Obama, There will be blacks that have never voted coming out to support him. The fact is that most people just don't vote. When you have a situation where the masses of average Joe Sixpack and Sally Housewife are gonna see it as black VS white, they are gonna vote according to which side they perceive themselves to be on. In fact I am sitting here trying to think of when the last time I heard either one of these candidates mentioned anything about the others issues or political platforms... All I have heard for the last week has been the black man vs the white woman or some variant. Baaahahahaha
And just FYI all of this is just a hunch. For every Poll or Statistic that you pull I can find another that says the opposite. I don't even use stats when I argue anymore because it just comes down to destroying the credibility of the others poll or stat, and from there it breaks down into mudslinging. People just believe in what they want to believe and I find people will tend to latch onto the stats, polls and evidence that suits theirs point of view best. If you can't beat the other persons logic then no amount of facts and figures are gonna change anything.
I agree unequivocally. White people will come out in droves, that have never voted in their lives to prevent a black man from getting into the white house.
I definitely agree. I think there are more people afraid of a Black man becoming president than a White woman becoming Vice-President or even President regardless of experience or lack-thereof.
"In fact I am sitting here trying to think of when the last time I heard either one of these candidates mentioned anything about the others issues or political platforms"
Um, what about the DNC where Obama addressed McCain's platform in his speech, or when McCain criticized Obama's shifting stances on the issues in a campaign ad? And without stats/polls, there's only anecdotes, stereotypes, and opinions substantiated by the two inherently faulty and subjective sources of information. Sure, stats aren't perfect, but they're the best we've got.
"Is it because eventually (months into the campaign and after much "why don't blacks like Obama?" handwringing from the media) blacks chose Obama over Clinton?"
Thank you for pointing this out, as it has been conveniently forgotten in the ensuing months. Hillary Clinton enjoyed sizable support among African Americans at the outset of the primary season. The ugly tone of the primary, with comments perceived as race-baiting emerging from many in the Clinton camp, soured many blacks on Clinton, and the denials and attempts to associate media-generated sexist attacks on Clinton with the Obama campaign did the rest. There was no unconditional, wholesale support for Obama because he was black. There was much discussion within the community of who he was, where he came from, what experience did he have, and did his upbringing prevent him from identifying with the concerns of the poor and underclass in particular, and the African American mainstream in general. All those "Obama is an elitist" discussions in the media recently? Already happened in the black community, although different terminology was used. But it's comforting to some to believe that blacks are a monolith afflicted with a unique and paralyzing form of groupthink.
In case I am unclear, let me reiterate: Blacks do not mindlessly go to the polls muttering "must vote black or I'll have to go back". If that were true, Alan Keyes, JC Watts, Kenneth Blackwell and Lynn Swann might all have different day jobs. I have been an Obama supporter from day one. I used to consider myself a feminist, but this primary forced me to vomit up the kool aid. I made my decision based on policies, positions, and potential. Despite Clinton's years in Washington, I felt that her divisive reputation would make the collaboration and bipartisan work that is necessary to avoid the constant stagnation and bickering that marks life inside the Beltway too much of a pipedream. And would probably prevent her from getting to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in the first place.
I voted with my head and heart, not my vagina. I'm not immune to the power and promise of the place in history that marks Obama's nomination, but had Clinton won the nomination, I sure as hell wouldn't have thrown my vote away over anger at being denied that place in history. And any woman stupid enough to vote for ovaries or race over policies, and to bargain reproductive freedom and economic parity for someone who looks like you...deserves the president she will get. I just wish they didn't have the power to inflict their horrible decisionmaking on the rest of us.
Many black people did vote for Jackson when he ran. Keyes is considered a house negro, so forget about him. I would say the vast majority of African Americans vote democrat no matter what, that's been the same since Johnson signed the Civil Rights act. I would think Mckinney would be more popular, though whites would never vote for her because of her anti Jewish baggage and connections to black supremacist groups.
Yeah people did want Jesse to win, but I think many blacks knew that was a lost cause, he was trying to run after the "hymietown" comments. Alan Keyes I still wonder what the hell is wrong with him, yeah I am admitting I think he has house negro tendencies, especially after disowning his daughter because she was lesbian, and Cynthia McKinney is kind of scary, she is kind of a loose cannon with the 9/11 comments and her criticism of Al Gore.
----------------------
There reason no one is talking about McKinney is because the MSM can only see red and blue. They can't even consider the fact that other parties even exist. The only other person they can think of is Nader.
Very true, I don't know if we will ever have more than a two party system in this country. It seems any other party has no chance to win.
------------------------
. Hillary Clinton enjoyed sizable support among African Americans at the outset of the primary season. The ugly tone of the primary, with comments perceived as race-baiting emerging from many in the Clinton camp, soured many blacks on Clinton, and the denials and attempts to associate media-generated sexist attacks on Clinton with the Obama campaign did the rest. There was no unconditional, wholesale support for Obama because he was black.
Bob Johnson was a big supporter of Hillary, that should honestly could have swayed my vote for Obama. That fool angers me. My dad also voted for Hillary in our primary.
I used to consider myself a feminist, but this primary forced me to vomit up the kool aid.
Me and you both. I was extremely disappointed in the feminist organizations and those who were considered integral to the movement.
McCain pulled the oldest trick in the book-appealing to men’s testosterone. A lot of red-blooded white males are going to put their guns and bibles aside and vote for McCain and Palin because she’s “hot” and very fertile. A lot of white women who can’t relate to Michelle Obama because she is so obviously the epitome of Claire Huxtable, with the unnerving ability to effortlessly do the spinning plate act of a great mom, wife, and career professional, will find more currency with the beleaguered hockey mom whose tarnished but reflects their core values and because she looks like them.
I have no respect for Alan Keyes because he publicly disowned his daughter for being a lesbian. To me, that's low...
Bree sd: "Um, what about the DNC where Obama addressed McCain's platform in his speech, or when McCain criticized Obama's shifting stances on the issues in a campaign ad?"
I just said that I was trying to recall when the last time was, not that it hasn't happened. Remember that I am a fighter and my short term memory is not all that great. The good thing about it is I have a great reason as to why I forget things, even if I do remember them I can just say that I don't. The down side is that sometimes I really just can't remember.
Bree sd: "And without stats/polls, there's only anecdotes, stereotypes, and opinions substantiated by the two inherently faulty and subjective sources of information. Sure, stats aren't perfect, but they're the best we've got"
All polls/stats are, are stereotypes and opinions substantiated by inherently faulty and subjective sources of information. Stats are the antifisis of perfect because they are made by people, and people are biased to varying degrees. The lesser degrees are worse because they are more subtle and easier to make it through the filters you have to decipher the truth.
If I told you nothing but the truth all the time you would always know the truth, If I told you nothing but lies all the time you would always know the truth. Deception comes from a mixture between the two. Everyone lies regardless of the intention or motive whether its in the best interest or whether its malicious, the difference is what I may think is in your best interest may be in stark contrast to what you feel is in your best interest.
In my opinion, stats are the worst we've got and potentially the most dangerous because they are generally accepted as a gauge of where the truth really is.
In my opinion, stats are the worst we've got and potentially the most dangerous because they are generally accepted as a gauge of where the truth really is.
This statement should be on billboards. I agree 1000 percent.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree, Casper.
Fair enough.
Just to end on a quote from someone who said it better than me.
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
- Benjamin Disraeli, 1st Earl of Beaconsfield, Prime Minister of England from 20 February 1874 – 21 April 1880
Post a Comment