Angry and Black Since 1976; Somebody's Momma Since 2010
2008-09-07
I like Paul Mooney, but do I agree with him?
52 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I think you need tough skin to be able to sit through his routine, sometimes. He cuts right down to it, he does not hold back anything. That being said I like his comedy because he is funny. He just talks about stuff alot of blacks talk about behind closed doors. SOme of it is the truth and some of it is just jokes. He came up during a time when racism was still very very ugly and in your face. It is still ugly, but less in your face. I think his emotion comes from that. You cannot go through that kind of turmoil and still not be affected by it. It is better that he turned to comedy to vent than turn to violence. He still pulls in an audience though. I have seen white people praise him. He used to write for Richard Pryor.
I loved Paul Mooney on Dave Chapelle & he's very original and talented, but... tell you what...
many militants _do_ say something is 'too white'
'too white' 'too black'... I bristle at these things.
btw, Richard Prior was one of the greatest comic geniuses of all time. period.
but I don't like him putting down Bill Cosby ....
oh, and he's totally wrong about 'the wiz'. which btw, was directed by Sidney Lumet.
The movie had major problems, creatively (although i still like it) , the stage show was a hit ! -- "they don't like us stealing from them..." good old militant paranoia, sorry. there's a certain point where you can't always frame your entire life in terms of racial tribes.
& lets see. there were many whites galvanized by what they saw in those civil rights days ... i.e. the dogs being let loose on protestors. my mother was one of them (she's American).
"racially, nothing has changed in America except the weather"
flipant, lazy and so easy to say. hmm no difference between now and the south in 1963 really ? it undermines all the struggles of those times, when truly incredible things happened. am i saying it's all good now ?? of course not, i think you know me enough by now that i am not in to simplistic arguments. _____ unrelated:
siditty... you really a Metalica fan ?? I love that !
did you see 'some kind of monster' ? (the doc)
I think St. Anger was one of the most bold and original metal albums. too bad many people didn't get it. so full of real passion of an addict struggling with his demons...
This was good. I watched the whole thing, Siditty, and cracked up at the end, "John McCaine looks like a shaved Santa Claus; he needs to go find himself some elves." LOL!
Yeah, he did; he found Sarah Palin...LOL!
Brotha spoke the truth too about how he knew the sistah had a job cause her hair was relax to relax the white folk, who ain't happy if your hair is nappy. Dang! Now that's the truth in the overwhelming majority of situations. And yeah, you can be too black, but being too white isn't a problem, even if you're a redneck. Anyone who thinks otherwise take note that it's not a concern that Palin's daughter is marrying a self-described one.
Overall, he's right, ain't nothing changed about race except the weather. I wouldn't have believed this until this year when all the haters came out of the closet and made themselves known from the election.
I think you need tough skin to be able to sit through his routine, sometimes. He cuts right down to it, he does not hold back anything.
Very true.
You cannot go through that kind of turmoil and still not be affected by it. It is better that he turned to comedy to vent than turn to violence. He still pulls in an audience though.
The man is a genius, he is a great comedienne. I remember my 1st time seeing him on one of the Robert Townsend Partner In Crime HBO specials back in the 1980s. He was hilarious.
This is how I discovered Robin Harris, he was DL Hughley before DL was probably doing stand up.
'too white' 'too black'... I bristle at these things.
Me too, it makes me cringe. I think it is flashbacks to childhood that do that. Yesterday my mother told me I had no soul because I was getting grossed out at the fact my country daddy was eating pickled pigs feet. Ick. She told me I liked white people food. Ick.
but I don't like him putting down Bill Cosby ....
People are angry at Bill Cosby because they feel he has a superiority complex and to be fair, that man reigned supreme a long time, but he has a propensity to tell others how life should be, without actually being in their shoes. I think he at one point told Eddie Murphy he needed to quit cursing so much, and his last tirade about poor blacks set people off a bit.
I have the Wiz on DVD. Ease on down, ease on down the road!!!!
& lets see. there were many whites galvanized by what they saw in those civil rights days ... i.e. the dogs being let loose on protestors. my mother was one of them (she's American).
True, and credit should be given where credit is due. Many people of all hues, gender, and religions fought and died for the civil rights movement.
siditty... you really a Metalica fan ?? I love that !
did you see 'some kind of monster' ? (the doc)
One is just a great song, I don't know if you would say I was a metalica fan, but I will say that is one great song of my childhood, and I didn't see some kind of monster, but I wanted to, but I think they rubbed me the wrong way with the napster thing. It was like they used to fight the man, but then became the man :)
My question is what is a black conscious and what is a white conscious? Is there an Asian conscious?
I don't know, I question this myself, on a regular basis since the eurocentric vs. afrocentric debate.
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Brotha spoke the truth too about how he knew the sistah had a job cause her hair was relax to relax the white folk, who ain't happy if your hair is nappy. D
KIT:
I am going to be honest, I know that there is an expectation of what is professional in the workplace and that my hair can hinder me there, but most of my negative reactions to my hair came from other black people. People asking me when I planned to comb my hair. I never had a problem obtaining employment while keeping my hair natural. I just want it kept neat looking. I do think there is prejudice in the workplace about african hair though. People are still trying to fight locs, and consider them unclean and undesirable and that to me is completely pathetic and sad.
I watched Analyzing White America on Netflix. You can watch it instantly. I love his take on things. I don't see him as extreme just a little too truthful.
"My question is what is a black conscious and what is a white conscious? Is there an Asian conscious?"
I guess with Black Consciousness its being deeply aware of what blackness really means in America. A foreign black can live here for decades and still not understand black consciousness.
I think its understanding exactly what blackness means to you as a black person and what it means to the rest of society.
One thing I have learnt from these elections is the power of definition. The Mainstream culture gets to define things. The mainstream culture has always defined what blackness means to socieity and the blacks themselves are at odds with that definition. Its the understanding of these two opposing dynamics that makes black consciousness.
I am a huge Mooney fan, this clip was great. I think Mooney speaks a lot of truth and yeah I do agree with him. I think that the more we think things change the more they stay the same, the powers to be just work hard to dress up the BS.
Like Kit that line about relaxed hair really leaped out me, maybe its because I am a dreadlocked sista, but I swear white folks seemed a lot more at ease around me when I wore my hair relaxed. It may seem like a silly little point but its really deep when you think about it.
I remember Paul Mooney from way back and Richard Pryor. Yeah, he would definitely offend the "mainstream" crowd. He would be considered militant and I guess angry because he remembers everything that happened during the Civil Rights Movement. He may be abrasive, but he brings up some valid points about race in America, but to compare racism 40 or 50 years ago to how it is today-- I don't think it is as bad, maybe more covert. He tells the truth about some things even if it's difficult to face.
but to compare racism 40 or 50 years ago to how it is today-- I don't think it is as bad, maybe more covert. He tells the truth about some things even if it's difficult to face.
That's where he goes wrong with Cosby. Fifty years ago you couldn't drink at the same drinking fountains, eat in the same restaurants, ride at the back of the bus. Blacks were being killed, including little children in bombings etc. None of that exists now. I don't agree with everything Cosby says but he makes good points.
That's where he goes wrong with Cosby. Fifty years ago you couldn't drink at the same drinking fountains, eat in the same restaurants, ride at the back of the bus. Blacks were being killed, including little children in bombings etc. None of that exists now. I don't agree with everything Cosby says but he makes good points.
James Byrd Jr. and the Jena 6 and scenarios such as that still exist, they just don't receive media attention.
It isn't as often, and usually those who commit the crimes don't get off as easily, but it still happens.
My critique of Cosby is the fact he has no room to talk. He is no more innocent than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. I do agree to an extent with Cosby's points, but he makes the mistake that most people do when they critique blacks, he applies the ills and issues of the black underclass to the whole entire race. We are the only race of people in which it is ok apply whole entire generalizations based upon how the lower class lives. Mainstream media embraces the "lower" classes as the norm, where as the middle and upper classes are virtually invisible, unless they are entertainers.
My guess is that with situations like Jena and the Duke Univ. rape case and the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson being seen as racial agitators, White people get sick of being generalized and blamed for all of the ills of the Black community. Mooney would definitely be considered militant, but Cosby, I'm not so sure about. Pryor started out like Bill Cosby, but then he got angrier and more militant. The White mainstream could tolerate Cosby more because he wasn't as controversial as Pryor or Mooney. Cosby was more successful than either, so I'm guessing there was/is some jealousy there. I don't know if Mooney is a separatist, but he seems to have contempt for White people, but people of that generation seem to. Chris Rock talked about that in one of his stand up specials about how older Black people pretend to love White people, but when their back is turned, they call them names and say they hate White people. That was how my Father was. He was very good at pretending to their face,but at home it was totally different. If you grew up during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement, I guess it's hard not to be paranoid about racism and White people. It's wrong, but it's a hard cycle for them to break.
OK I understand Paul Mooney is from the old school, but isn't that like being cool with your white significant other's grandparents who still utter the n-word because when they grew up, it was acceptable. I can accept him as the grumpy old man, and he is funny as all get out, but should we give him a free pass. I am still waiting for my husband's grandparents to slip up, they haven't yet, but I know they could, and my husband knows I wouldn't just be cool and sit back and enjoy their use of the word.
My guess is that with situations like Jena and the Duke Univ. rape case and the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson being seen as racial agitators, White people get sick of being generalized and blamed for all of the ills of the Black community
This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way. The problem with people like Mooney is all he cand is paint black people as the victim. He hardly has anything good to say about black people and what they are capable of and he certainely has no alternative path for black self improvement.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad. You would never see white militants talking so badly about white people.
This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way. The problem with people like Mooney is all he cand is paint black people as the victim. He hardly has anything good to say about black people and what they are capable of and he certainely has no alternative path for black self improvement.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad. You would never see white militants talking so badly about white people.
@C-1: I TOTALLY DISAGREE, HE TALKS ABOUT ISSUES BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES THAT I THINK WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT TAKE. HE DOES NOT PRETTY IT UP LIKE COSBY DOES AND I LOVE COSBY SO THIS IS NO ATTACK AGAINST HIM. WHITE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER WITH COSBY BECAUSE HE DOES NOT CALL THEM ON THEIR S***. I AM BLACK AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE HE MAKES US LOOK WEAK. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, IT IS BECAUSE YOU THINK BLACKS LOOK WEAK FOR YOUR OWN REASONS. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE? HE CALLS BLACK PEOPLE ON THEIR SHIT JUST LIKE HE CALLS WHITE PEOPLE ON THEIRS. YOU ARE SMART C=1 BUT YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET IT. I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO. AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT A WHITE MILITANT WOULD SAY OR DO TO OTHER WHITE MILITANTS. YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THAT? HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO COMPARE PAUL MOONEY WITH A BUNCH OF WHITE MILITANT'S OR LETS JUST SAY NEO NAZI'S. AND PAUL MOONEY IS NOT A DAMN BLACK MILITANT HE IS A COMEDIAN. HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WROTE THAT CRAP. BY THE WAY. I KNOW MOST WHITES DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT SHARPTON AND JACKSON THINK. THAT IS WHY RACE RELATIONS WILL NEVER GET BETTER BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE LIKE THAT. SO DON'T BLAME MOONEY FOR SPEAKING ON THE TRUTH BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BUDGE AWAY FROM THEIR RACIST WAYS. PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT LIES AND LET US WORRY ABOUT US EVEN IF IT MEANS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT US AND YOU.
AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT A WHITE MILITANT WOULD SAY OR DO TO OTHER WHITE MILITANTS. YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THAT?
I sure do, I've interviewed white militants as well as black ones. I've also written papers on white nationalism.
HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
Your right, i don't claim to understand or have any knowledge of being black, just as you would not be familiar with being white. And btw my blog is not a "black blog."
I didn't say Mooney is a militant, I just think he paints blacks as weak, like other miltants have been known to do. I'll say one good thing about Nation of Islam they portray what they think is strong about being black.
I'm sure you have heard me say that black women and white men largely don't understand each other and often see things in very different ways, like you and I are doing right now. You can call my opinion stupid crap or racism, but it's an honest opinion. If you don't want' to here it, that's fine.
Siditty, just thought I'd let you know that Dr Phil (never to shy away from sensationalism) is having an 'n'word' debate on friday. One of his guests is... Paul Mooney. Looks like it all got pretty heated by the promo.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad.
i think this is well put
this is OT, but you know what, there's a parallel with radical feminists too. so much of what they say actually depends on women being seen as weak and infantilized (the exception being them, the enlightened ones)
I just think he paints blacks as weak, @C-1: How does he paint blacks as weak? I fail to see this. You have a better understanding of white militants huh? Why even compare the two, by saying at least white militants don't put down other whites. What was the point in saying that? It was so drastic. Comparing Paul Mooney to racist. WHy is it that if blacks express their dislike about being mistreated by white people whether we are talking about talk about the past or present racism, why is it a problem? Listen to what he is saying and understand where he is coming from. White militants don't like blacks. Paul Mooney doesn't hate white people. I wonder if you were to ever get involved with a black woman, how in the world you would deal with such issues. I assume you would take the safe route and be with an Asian or Hispanic woman.
WHITE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER WITH COSBY BECAUSE HE DOES NOT CALL THEM ON THEIR S***. True I AM BLACK AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE HE MAKES US LOOK WEAK. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, IT IS BECAUSE YOU THINK BLACKS LOOK WEAK FOR YOUR OWN REASONS
I don't agree, he stated his opinion, I don't feel that it is a reflection of how he feels about black people, but Mr. Mooney.
HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO COMPARE PAUL MOONEY WITH A BUNCH OF WHITE MILITANT'S OR LETS JUST SAY NEO NAZI'S
Because he does say things that make you squirm about race and has generalizations of white thought based upon his experiences.
HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
He has an IR blog, not a "black" blog.
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Superjv,
Maybe I should Tivo that? Sounds interesting, even if I loathe Dr. Phil.
I think Cosby gets a bad rap here. He has never denied who he is. Think of Fat Albert, or the Cosby show... he is always trying to uplift...
The think people forget too, is Cosby was actually quite subversive in the 70s, before he became the cuddly "Jello" pudding guy of the 80s. I think people forget what an institution Cosby was. A major force in pop culture for a stretch of about 25 years. He also happens to be a brilliant comedian. Just listen to his classic records.
Cosby is an equal trailblazer to any of the great comedians (black or otherwise). There would be no Prior without Cosby, he has the same weight and importance.
OK Cosby is an institution there is no denying that, but he also is controversial in his own right. Just because Cosby his own chastised race, doesn't make him right, it made him seem self righteous and considering the things that have surfaced about his background, he really had no right to say the things he did. That is why Cosby gets a bad rap.
Cosby was safe and family, Pryor wasn't about playing it safe. Pryor would never have the Pryor Show, where he would be a family man, and be able to sell Jello pudding pops. Cosby has always to an extent been family, even in his early days.
Not to mention Cosby in his routine didn't really deal with race like Pryor, Mooney, or so many other black comediennes So Cosby for white America was much safer.
I know that you are C1's caretaker and everything,but why do I have to be offended because I am expressing my opinion to comments that I don't agree with. I knew it wouldn't be long before you came around to rescue C1.YOu are telling me that you cannot understand where I am coming from at all? Maybe I should be Mooney, he isn't here to defend himself. Sounds like you are offended. What are you upset that C1 will stop being your cyberlover if you don't defend him? You are so funny.
I know that you are C1's caretaker and everything,but why do I have to be offended because I am expressing my opinion to comments that I don't agree with. I knew it wouldn't be long before you came around to rescue C1.YOu are telling me that you cannot understand where I am coming from at all? Maybe I should be Mooney, he isn't here to defend himself. Sounds like you are offended. What are you upset that C1 will stop being your cyberlover if you don't defend him? You are so funny.
I don't think C1 needs a caretaker. He is a grown ass man. Maybe you are used to dealing with little boys, but C1 is more than capable of handling someone like you, an anonymice. It isn't the fact you are disagreeing with his and others comments, it is the manner in which you do it. Apparently having a discussion in which you have a difference of opinion is foreign to you, instead you would rather act like a damn fool.
I never once said I did not understand where you came from, what I did say is that it seems you are offended at another person's opinion. It shouldn't have that much power over you. He thinks Paul Mooney might come off as racist. I can see his point of view, even though I don't necessarily agree with it, much like I can see your point of view, but the manner in which you express this view isn't my cup of tea.
I am not offended, except at your blatant, tired insults.
I don't need a cyber lover. I might tease C1 is my cyber crush, but remember I have a man, and even if I didn't, and he was my cyber lover, it seems you are upset I even have the possibility of being his cyber lover, and he wouldn't give you the time of day, even in cyberspace sight unseen.
I don't see Paul Mooney as racist and nor does he offend me, i don't get offended. I was listening to Mooney talk about how scared white folks were on 911 and how black people could take it because they took slavery. I suppose all those white fire fighters who died trying to save people were just scared cowards. Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it. If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest. This is why there will be no honest conversations on race because people are afraid to be honest, I'm not. If you are Mooney, all I would say is worry about black people more and white people less, cuse your not changing many people's mind on the other side of the aisle.
C1: "This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way."
They care enough to continuously paint what those out-of-touch fools say as representative of blacks.
Regarding Bill Cosby: Cosby is foul. That's why people disagree with him. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. Most of what Cosby preaches against is a reflection of bad decisions he's made in the past. It may be the guilt driving him to get out of pocket with people. Coupled with that is the fact that he never praises the majority of the black population that aren't hoodrats, on welfare, with multiple children by multiple partners. And he never points out the ills in society that help to create these issues. Contrary to what an overwhelming amount of people want to believe, its not a race problem (whether you blame it on blacks or whites), it's a product of society that's been compounded throughout the nation's history and an issue of personal choices. At any rate, he presents a one-sided, unfair, elementary argument.
Regarding Mooney: I think Mooney is brilliant. His comedy is funny and he makes social commentary. But I do think you guys are giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that this man rose to fame (and helped Pryor become a legend) with this race-based brand of comedy. He's accomplished because of that, it's what he knows and it's why he's known. He's not gonna all of a sudden drop his claim to fame. What is Paul Mooney without race commentary in his comedy? However, I don't think it would be that hard for him to diversify (and not lean so heavily on race commentary) if he tried, but why try? If it ain't broke (and clearly after a 40+ year career, it ain't), don't fix it. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything he says, though. Just to make that clear.
"Racially, nothing has changed in America except the weather"
Is that statement really that far off? Think about it. Legally, a lot has changed. Socially, in terms of what's acceptable behavior and PC, a lot has changed. But I'd venture to say that with regards to race relations and genuine understanding and tolerance, we aren't that much ahead than in the 60s. I don't think it's right to say "nothing", but 'little' might be a bit closer to correct than we'd like to admit. In my opinion (and you don't have to agree), it all depends on from which angle you approach it. We've surgically addressed some wounds while doing little more than putting gauze on others.
*This is not to pick on what anyone has said. Just putting out my opinions.
"I was listening to Mooney talk about how scared white folks were on 911 and how black people could take it because they took slavery. I suppose all those white fire fighters who died trying to save people were just scared cowards."
This is my last one C1, then I'll leave you alone. After 911, a lot of black comedians came out with jokes similar to this one. And I got the joke. He was making the comparison of slavery to an act of terror, which a lot of white people (not most) fail to see it as. To take it further, he was attempting to comment on the sense of paranoia that many minorities have about simply being minority in this country and how that paranoia was elevated to something the whole nation felt all of a sudden; how it was no longer "just a minority thing." None of this is to say that it's not offensive to generalize all white people as cowards (but when has comedy ever been sensitive to generalizations?), especially when discussing 911. Nor am I excusing Mooney, and def. not trying to belittle your feelings regarding him and his jokes. I can understand why he's offensive, I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards).
On a related note, I think this difference of interpretation could possibly help explain what "black consciousness" and "white consciousness" is, though I won't attempt to do it.
" I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards)"
It is understandable, black and white folks are in the U.S. are quite different, worlds apart if you like.
"But I'd venture to say that with regards to race relations and genuine understanding and tolerance, we aren't that much ahead than in the 60s."
I doubt that will ever change. I think the best you can hope for is more open lines of communication.
Siddity, I don't dissagree with any thing you say there about Cosby. I didn't even get in to the poundcake speech or his book, or any of that. I guess to me, part of the difference between Pryor and Cosby as a comedian is more a point of style. The "white people feel more safe with Cosby" is what I was going after, that statement to me, implies a judgement against him. (although it is imperially speaking, correct).
C-1 says:
Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that....
well said, the whole comment.
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did I really write 'Prior' earlier ? eesh, man i'm tired.
Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it. If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest. This is why there will be no honest conversations on race because people are afraid to be honest, I'm not. If you are Mooney, all I would say is worry about black people more and white people less, cuse your not changing many people's mind on the other side of the aisle.
Are you kidding me? Isn't it nice to have the priveledge of saying that. We are not changing peoples minds you say. So white people are going to think what they want regardless right? We know that. SO why even have communication? Lets just have seperate societies so that whenever blacks speak on our experiences we will not make white people uncomfortable. ALthough you can say and do whatever your little white hearts desire. While black people sit back and take itlike good little field negroes. Sounds like the Militants have gotten to you. YOur comments make my ass hurt. Don't say you are not offended, because it shows in your words.
If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest.
You are apologizing for white racists. Maybe you are racist and don't know it. White people are the ones who cannot have an honest conversation about race.For many of them,not all, but many would have to look that ugliness in the face. ANytime a black person says anything about race and what offends us. White people like you come up with excuses. You know in your heart race relations are never going to get better and that you can sit and type what you type while sitting back in your chair laughing because you know your white priveledged ass can talk nonsense about what black people need to do. The racism comes from your people. So why don't you people fix it.Most blacks don't complain about the problems in this society because we are bored, it is because the shit continues to effect us, not you. You won't fix it because you are comfortable the way you are. If black people try and have a discussion about race, you really could not take it, you don't want to know how we feel. You are right about Mooney being bitter. It is not your fault, so don't try and step on his rights to express how he feels. I bet if the Klan was marching down the street spewing how they are losing white priveledge and how white men are becoming the minority you would rush to find a way to defend everything they say and feel.
You know what C-1 people who I have talked to have read your blogs and they question your motives all the time. I would defend you because I felt like you had the right to say whatever you wanted to. Not that you needed me to defend you. I see you in a whole new light now. You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations, I bet you will find something about yourself you did not know was there, I will not dare say it to see you deny it, but you are not that far away from it.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it.
Why do I have to be ignorant because I do not agree with you. Typical though. Black person expressing how they feel about a comedian who happens to be funny and also telling the truth on some things. Notice I said some. Notice I sympathized with him only because of his experiences in his past, and I am ignorant. You are an ignorant jackass for saying, "don't expect white people to cut you any slack" give me a fucking break. Alot of White people still don't cut blacks any slack and don't give a shit about white people not cutting me any slack, because I know there are some white people out there who can understand where I am coming from. You don't. You have to resort to name calling because you don't have anything else decent to say. I forget you are just a little boy. If a white person wants to get up in my face about my opinion let them. You will lose everytime. Just because you will always be wrong. You do what a lot of white people do C1. YOu act like you are ready for a discussion on race and you are not, especially if the conversation is out of your control. You say don't make you feel guilty, although you do. Not my doing just your guilt for whatever reason. So when you here a black person like Mooney say things it stirs something up in you that you have to question and it makes you uncomfortable that he knows you so well. He can call you on your racism because it is the same shit that has been going on forever. Black people don't want to bring it up. But it is there sometimes and we deal with it the best way possible. Then you have the damn nerve to call that man bitter. You go through what he went through and tell me how you would feel. But don't say he is bitter like he does not have a right to be. You are a fucking hypocrit. YOu can kiss his bitter black ass.
Boy, I know anonymous, after those really nice and fair comments you said about Sid I should just give you a big hug and stop being so mean.
You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations
I've said right here about how I feel about race realtions, I don't put on any rose color glasses. So I said Mooney was bitter? Big deal.. I guess I should just laugh at his "I hate you white people" punchline .. or his quoting Miles Davis if he had ten minutes left to live "I'd choke a white man to death" Mooney replies "I love that shit" Yeah he's a great dude, wish I knew him, doesn't sound bitter at all.
They care enough to continuously paint what those out-of-touch fools say as representative of blacks.
You make a good point. I am still trying to figure out why these men are supposed to represent me. Who would we consider to be the white leaders of America? The President is supposed to represent us all.
osby is foul. That's why people disagree with him. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. Most of what Cosby preaches against is a reflection of bad decisions he's made in the past. It may be the guilt driving him to get out of pocket with people. Coupled with that is the fact that he never praises the majority of the black population that aren't hoodrats, on welfare, with multiple children by multiple partners. And he never points out the ills in society that help to create these issues. Contrary to what an overwhelming amount of people want to believe, its not a race problem (whether you blame it on blacks or whites), it's a product of society that's been compounded throughout the nation's history and an issue of personal choices. At any rate, he presents a one-sided, unfair, elementary argument.
100% agree, I think that is why some black people were upset by his comments. As much as there might be a tinge of truth to it, it doesn't apply to all blacks, and he left out a ton of factors that contribute to the behavior he didn't like.
Let's not forget that this man rose to fame (and helped Pryor become a legend) with this race-based brand of comedy. He's accomplished because of that, it's what he knows and it's why he's known. He's not gonna all of a sudden drop his claim to fame. What is Paul Mooney without race commentary in his comedy? However, I don't think it would be that hard for him to diversify (and not lean so heavily on race commentary) if he tried, but why try? If it ain't broke (and clearly after a 40+ year career, it ain't), don't fix it. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything he says, though. Just to make that clear.
Very true, his humor is race humor, his first comedy album was called "Race".
We've surgically addressed some wounds while doing little more than putting gauze on others.
I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!
He was making the comparison of slavery to an act of terror, which a lot of white people (not most) fail to see it as. To take it further, he was attempting to comment on the sense of paranoia that many minorities have about simply being minority in this country and how that paranoia was elevated to something the whole nation felt all of a sudden; how it was no longer "just a minority thing." None of this is to say that it's not offensive to generalize all white people as cowards (but when has comedy ever been sensitive to generalizations?), especially when discussing 911. Nor am I excusing Mooney, and def. not trying to belittle your feelings regarding him and his jokes. I can understand why he's offensive, I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards).
I took the joke the same way you did and it shows the differences and perceptions of things in a black vs. white world.
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The "white people feel more safe with Cosby" is what I was going after, that statement to me, implies a judgement against him. (although it is imperially speaking, correct).
SuperJV,
I don't think it is a judgement against him, but a fact. I am seen as less threatening to certain whites because of how I talk, where I grew up, and my marriage. My hair being natural to some folks as seen as more threatening and a sign of me being militant vs. just being a girl who doesn't want to straighten her hair.
There is a polarization of stereotypes in this country that affect blacks on an everyday level. It is really kind of sad if you think about it. --------
Lets just have seperate societies so that whenever blacks speak on our experiences we will not make white people uncomfortable.
Last time we had separate, but equal, that didn't work out in our favor, and race mixing still continued on.
The fact of the matter is on this one C1 is right, white people aren't able to have the conversation about race, because to them it is an afterthought, whereas for blacks it is a constant. I shocked the hell out of my husband when I told him that every single day of my life, I think about race. I have to think about when shopping in a store, when I am at work or school, or if I am looking for a job. To white people in general their perceptions of race isn't formed by personal experiences, but by what their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television. They may have had a few experiences in the real world, but personal one on one experiences with blacks are limited.
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I bet you will find something about yourself you did not know was there, I will not dare say it to see you deny it, but you are not that far away from it.
Are you thinking his views on Paul Mooney reflect his views on a whole entire race?
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Then you have the damn nerve to call that man bitter. You go through what he went through and tell me how you would feel. But don't say he is bitter like he does not have a right to be. You are a fucking hypocrit. YOu can kiss his bitter black ass.
He was not the only man in all of America to make it out of the civil rights movement. Like I said before, I am not saying I agree with him a 100% of the time, but I do understand him. There is a mistrust of white people, by many black people due to this, I will not take away that feeling and those experiences that led them to that, but I will say that the majority who have these experiences would not dare vocalize them, and I think that is what makes Mooney so brilliant, he will, and he will not hold back. He does go a bit off into the deep end sometimes though, and that might drive certain people of other races away, you can't deny that.
You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations
I know how I feel about race. I know that some blacks use racism as a crutch, some blacks get out and fight it, some blacks feel things will not get much better in terms of racism. SOme whites fight against racism and some are okay with it. I am very realistic about race relations. I have my prejudices and sometimes I speed up my judgement of a person before really getting to know them. I recognize those things within myself. I try and check myself when it comes to race issues because I know not every white person isn't an ignorant racist just like I know some black people want to play the race card because they are too lazy to really deal with life. I also don't give a damn if you are mean or not. I will never meet you. BTW I never said Mooney was not bitter. I feel he has a right to be. What has your twenty something year old ass ever been through that has ever resembled what Mooney has been through. I know those comments sound harsh. They may not be right, but do you expect an apology for those comments. You put your self in their shoes go back in time to the early 60's let someone tell you " get to the back of the bus boy", "What you lookin at nigga?", Or you have to drink out a designated water fountain,use a different bathroom, walk through the back door of a club for the white people you are performing for, have relatives get lynched, I could go on and on, but you know the history. These men lived through it. Men who have been blatantly hated because they were black. You telling me you cannot understand this man's bitterness. I don't know why I keep going back and forth with you because you are way too far removed from it, I am too far removed from it, but I understand. His hateful words don't make it better, but I sure as hell can understand. White people with sense understand. This is my last entry to you about this because you clearly will never ever ever get it.
He was not the only man in all of America to make it out of the civil rights movement. Like I said before, I am not saying I agree with him a 100% of the time, but I do understand him. There is a mistrust of white people, by many black people due to this, I will not take away that feeling and those experiences that led them to that, but I will say that the majority who have these experiences would not dare vocalize them, and I think that is what makes Mooney so brilliant, he will, and he will not hold back. He does go a bit off into the deep end sometimes though, and that might drive certain people of other races away, you can't deny that.
@Siditty I know what your are saying Siditty, I just think although Mooney has said some very shocking stuff, to shock both sides. I think some people make more of an effort to see where it comes from. I don't feel C-1 does at all. I apologize to you for the things I said. It was unfair and I should not have said them. I let my emotion get the better of me. I will not apologize for my feelings on this subject, but to anyone else I may have offended I apologize.
They may not be right, but do you expect an apology for those comments. You put your self in their shoes go back in time to the early 60's let someone tell you " get to the back of the bus boy", "What you lookin at nigga?", Or you have to drink out a designated water fountain,use a different bathroom, walk through the back door of a club for the white people you are performing for, have relatives get lynched, I could go on and on, but you know the history. These men lived through it. Men who have been blatantly hated because they were black. You telling me you cannot understand this man's bitterness.
I actually said he might have a right to be that bitter. However, I didn't do those things to him and there is nothing I can about that time.
His hateful words don't make it better, but I sure as hell can understand
In the end I am still white and I must take exception to his comments. I'll never be black or understand black people and I don't expect to or for them to understand me. We don't really have much in common and this conversation certainely touches on that. I'm no fool, when Obama gives his speech on "there is no this or that Americans, just Americans" I know its bullshit and he does too. Yet, there is nothing that I can about it, history has already been done and there is no undoing it. So, I guess we just agree to disagree and I'll go on my way and you on yours, good luck and I mean that with no sarcasm.
The fact of the matter is on this one C1 is right, white people aren't able to have the conversation about race, because to them it is an afterthought, whereas for blacks it is a constant.
I believe this is true, however not so simple. I do think it depends on context too. Remember how I said how much I hated the segregation in Florida ? Well, a big part of that, was that this was the first time I felt like a 'race'. I remember being in this area, in this 'black' McD's with my girlfriend at the time, and we kept getting stares, along the lines of "what are _they_ doing here. It was the first time I had a tiny incling of what it might feel to be a 'color', a minority. I hated that feeling.
To white people in general their perceptions of race isn't formed by personal experiences, but by what their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television.
so this isn't entirely true though. many of the people I work with are black. I don't think of it that way, but it's true. And, in many cases, stories involving race do come up, which I always find interesting and enlightening. I've always had a deep interest in black culture I think in large part because the roots of _all_ popular music are there. (rock, blues, jazz, hip-hop, disco, house, everything !). and I hate to generalize, good or bad, but many of the black people I have known have been very inspirational to me, often overcomming great odds with a deep strength and determination. one thing I love about being in the music world is how integrated it has always been, even when that was nearly impossibe (did you you see "Standing in the Shadows of Mowtown" ? , you should.) yes, there are lots of bad examples here too, I know, (Led Zeppelin ripping off Willie Dixon, still bothers me) but good ones too, like the Rolling Stones brining Muddy Waters out of retirement, and insisting he appear with them on some early TV appearances. OK, I'm wandering here, but my understanding of race is not just "that their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television".
at the end of the day, I'll keep saying it. It comes down to people, to character above all. If I see a person of any color, really I can't make any assumptions about who they are, not one, based on that alone. At the end of the day, we all have more in common than what divides us. I believe this to the core of my being.
I shocked the hell out of my husband when I told him that every single day of my life, I think about race. I have to think about when shopping in a store, when I am at work or school, or if I am looking for a job.
I understand this, it is a statement of your experience. I have to say it strikes me as sad, to feel that, carry that, all the time. I can't imagine.
I cannot talk about race with my husband because he has this view that Black people play the race card and that if people stopped making a big deal about race, we wouldn't have any problems. I disagree. How will we be able to come to some conclusion or understand each other without productive dialogue? being on blogs like these are my only outlet for talking about race.
I cannot talk about race with my husband because he has this view that Black people play the race card and that if people stopped making a big deal about race, we wouldn't have any problems. I disagree. How will we be able to come to some conclusion or understand each other without productive dialogue? being on blogs like these are my only outlet for talking about race.
That is sad, but to an extent I can relate. Many white people are under the perception a black person's sole purpose in life is the pull the race card. Or cry racism for every little thing. Never once do they ever acknowledge the actual racism within their own community or even realizes it exist, unless it is the blatant KKK racism. Me and my husband have had extensive arguments about this, and it gets me in my militant mode, but he does acknowledge the "less blatant" racism he really wants to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I on the other hand don't feel I have the luxury to do that.
I am glad you can come to here and other blogs and discuss your frustration. My husband after the cheesecake incident told me I obsessed about race to much. That was when he realized how often I had to think about race, that it wasn't just an afterthought for me in most instances.
That is sad, but to an extent I can relate. Many white people are under the perception a black person's sole purpose in life is the pull the race card. Or cry racism for every little thing.
I believe that because of his position in the corporate world and from being in the States for 11 years, his views on race are going to be fairly biased and conservative. He has seen Black employees play the race card when they are fired due to mediocre work instead of having a prejudiced manager. I don't know-- that's just his point-of-view, one of many, I suppose. He just believes that there is no excuse for Black people not to succeed in this day and age and that Generation X and Y need to stop complaining about a past that they didn't experience and use it as an excuse as to why they can't get ahead. I disagree with him about this...
52 comments:
I think you need tough skin to be able to sit through his routine, sometimes. He cuts right down to it, he does not hold back anything. That being said I like his comedy because he is funny. He just talks about stuff alot of blacks talk about behind closed doors. SOme of it is the truth and some of it is just jokes. He came up during a time when racism was still very very ugly and in your face. It is still ugly, but less in your face. I think his emotion comes from that. You cannot go through that kind of turmoil and still not be affected by it. It is better that he turned to comedy to vent than turn to violence. He still pulls in an audience though. I have seen white people praise him. He used to write for Richard Pryor.
I loved Paul Mooney on Dave Chapelle & he's very original and talented, but... tell you what...
many militants _do_ say something is 'too white'
'too white' 'too black'... I bristle at these things.
btw, Richard Prior was one of the greatest comic geniuses of all time. period.
but I don't like him putting down Bill Cosby ....
oh, and he's totally wrong about 'the wiz'. which btw, was directed by Sidney Lumet.
The movie had major problems, creatively (although i still like it) , the stage show was a hit ! -- "they don't like us stealing from them..." good old militant paranoia, sorry. there's a certain point where you can't always frame your entire life in terms of racial tribes.
& lets see. there were many whites galvanized by what they saw in those civil rights days ... i.e. the dogs being let loose on protestors. my mother was one of them (she's American).
"racially, nothing has changed in America except the weather"
flipant, lazy and so easy to say. hmm no difference between now and the south in 1963 really ? it undermines all the struggles of those times, when truly incredible things happened. am i saying it's all good now ?? of course not, i think you know me enough by now that i am not in to simplistic arguments.
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unrelated:
siditty... you really a Metalica fan ?? I love that !
did you see 'some kind of monster' ? (the doc)
I think St. Anger was one of the most bold and original metal albums. too bad many people didn't get it. so full of real passion of an addict struggling with his demons...
My question is what is a black conscious and what is a white conscious? Is there an Asian conscious?
This was good. I watched the whole thing, Siditty, and cracked up at the end, "John McCaine looks like a shaved Santa Claus; he needs to go find himself some elves." LOL!
Yeah, he did; he found Sarah Palin...LOL!
Brotha spoke the truth too about how he knew the sistah had a job cause her hair was relax to relax the white folk, who ain't happy if your hair is nappy. Dang! Now that's the truth in the overwhelming majority of situations. And yeah, you can be too black, but being too white isn't a problem, even if you're a redneck. Anyone who thinks otherwise take note that it's not a concern that Palin's daughter is marrying a self-described one.
Overall, he's right, ain't nothing changed about race except the weather. I wouldn't have believed this until this year when all the haters came out of the closet and made themselves known from the election.
I think you need tough skin to be able to sit through his routine, sometimes. He cuts right down to it, he does not hold back anything.
Very true.
You cannot go through that kind of turmoil and still not be affected by it. It is better that he turned to comedy to vent than turn to violence. He still pulls in an audience though.
The man is a genius, he is a great comedienne. I remember my 1st time seeing him on one of the Robert Townsend Partner In Crime HBO specials back in the 1980s. He was hilarious.
This is how I discovered Robin Harris, he was DL Hughley before DL was probably doing stand up.
'too white' 'too black'... I bristle at these things.
Me too, it makes me cringe. I think it is flashbacks to childhood that do that. Yesterday my mother told me I had no soul because I was getting grossed out at the fact my country daddy was eating pickled pigs feet. Ick. She told me I liked white people food. Ick.
but I don't like him putting down Bill Cosby ....
People are angry at Bill Cosby because they feel he has a superiority complex and to be fair, that man reigned supreme a long time, but he has a propensity to tell others how life should be, without actually being in their shoes. I think he at one point told Eddie Murphy he needed to quit cursing so much, and his last tirade about poor blacks set people off a bit.
I have the Wiz on DVD. Ease on down, ease on down the road!!!!
& lets see. there were many whites galvanized by what they saw in those civil rights days ... i.e. the dogs being let loose on protestors. my mother was one of them (she's American).
True, and credit should be given where credit is due. Many people of all hues, gender, and religions fought and died for the civil rights movement.
siditty... you really a Metalica fan ?? I love that !
did you see 'some kind of monster' ? (the doc)
One is just a great song, I don't know if you would say I was a metalica fan, but I will say that is one great song of my childhood, and I didn't see some kind of monster, but I wanted to, but I think they rubbed me the wrong way with the napster thing. It was like they used to fight the man, but then became the man :)
My question is what is a black conscious and what is a white conscious? Is there an Asian conscious?
I don't know, I question this myself, on a regular basis since the eurocentric vs. afrocentric debate.
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Brotha spoke the truth too about how he knew the sistah had a job cause her hair was relax to relax the white folk, who ain't happy if your hair is nappy. D
KIT:
I am going to be honest, I know that there is an expectation of what is professional in the workplace and that my hair can hinder me there, but most of my negative reactions to my hair came from other black people. People asking me when I planned to comb my hair. I never had a problem obtaining employment while keeping my hair natural. I just want it kept neat looking. I do think there is prejudice in the workplace about african hair though. People are still trying to fight locs, and consider them unclean and undesirable and that to me is completely pathetic and sad.
I watched Analyzing White America on Netflix. You can watch it instantly. I love his take on things. I don't see him as extreme just a little too truthful.
"My question is what is a black conscious and what is a white conscious? Is there an Asian conscious?"
I guess with Black Consciousness its being deeply aware of what blackness really means in America. A foreign black can live here for decades and still not understand black consciousness.
I think its understanding exactly what blackness means to you as a black person and what it means to the rest of society.
One thing I have learnt from these elections is the power of definition. The Mainstream culture gets to define things. The mainstream culture has always defined what blackness means to socieity and the blacks themselves are at odds with that definition. Its the understanding of these two opposing dynamics that makes black consciousness.
White consciousness is main stream really.
I am a huge Mooney fan, this clip was great. I think Mooney speaks a lot of truth and yeah I do agree with him. I think that the more we think things change the more they stay the same, the powers to be just work hard to dress up the BS.
Like Kit that line about relaxed hair really leaped out me, maybe its because I am a dreadlocked sista, but I swear white folks seemed a lot more at ease around me when I wore my hair relaxed. It may seem like a silly little point but its really deep when you think about it.
I remember Paul Mooney from way back and Richard Pryor. Yeah, he would definitely offend the "mainstream" crowd. He would be considered militant and I guess angry because he remembers everything that happened during the Civil Rights Movement. He may be abrasive, but he brings up some valid points about race in America, but to compare racism 40 or 50 years ago to how it is today-- I don't think it is as bad, maybe more covert. He tells the truth about some things even if it's difficult to face.
but to compare racism 40 or 50 years ago to how it is today-- I don't think it is as bad, maybe more covert. He tells the truth about some things even if it's difficult to face.
That's where he goes wrong with Cosby. Fifty years ago you couldn't drink at the same drinking fountains, eat in the same restaurants, ride at the back of the bus. Blacks were being killed, including little children in bombings etc. None of that exists now. I don't agree with everything Cosby says but he makes good points.
That's where he goes wrong with Cosby. Fifty years ago you couldn't drink at the same drinking fountains, eat in the same restaurants, ride at the back of the bus. Blacks were being killed, including little children in bombings etc. None of that exists now. I don't agree with everything Cosby says but he makes good points.
James Byrd Jr. and the Jena 6 and scenarios such as that still exist, they just don't receive media attention.
It isn't as often, and usually those who commit the crimes don't get off as easily, but it still happens.
My critique of Cosby is the fact he has no room to talk. He is no more innocent than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. I do agree to an extent with Cosby's points, but he makes the mistake that most people do when they critique blacks, he applies the ills and issues of the black underclass to the whole entire race. We are the only race of people in which it is ok apply whole entire generalizations based upon how the lower class lives. Mainstream media embraces the "lower" classes as the norm, where as the middle and upper classes are virtually invisible, unless they are entertainers.
My guess is that with situations like Jena and the Duke Univ. rape case and the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson being seen as racial agitators, White people get sick of being generalized and blamed for all of the ills of the Black community. Mooney would definitely be considered militant, but Cosby, I'm not so sure about. Pryor started out like Bill Cosby, but then he got angrier and more militant. The White mainstream could tolerate Cosby more because he wasn't as controversial as Pryor or Mooney. Cosby was more successful than either, so I'm guessing there was/is some jealousy there. I don't know if Mooney is a separatist, but he seems to have contempt for White people, but people of that generation seem to. Chris Rock talked about that in one of his stand up specials about how older Black people pretend to love White people, but when their back is turned, they call them names and say they hate White people. That was how my Father was. He was very good at pretending to their face,but at home it was totally different. If you grew up during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement, I guess it's hard not to be paranoid about racism and White people. It's wrong, but it's a hard cycle for them to break.
OK I understand Paul Mooney is from the old school, but isn't that like being cool with your white significant other's grandparents who still utter the n-word because when they grew up, it was acceptable. I can accept him as the grumpy old man, and he is funny as all get out, but should we give him a free pass. I am still waiting for my husband's grandparents to slip up, they haven't yet, but I know they could, and my husband knows I wouldn't just be cool and sit back and enjoy their use of the word.
He made some excellent points.
My guess is that with situations like Jena and the Duke Univ. rape case and the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson being seen as racial agitators, White people get sick of being generalized and blamed for all of the ills of the Black community
This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way. The problem with people like Mooney is all he cand is paint black people as the victim. He hardly has anything good to say about black people and what they are capable of and he certainely has no alternative path for black self improvement.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad. You would never see white militants talking so badly about white people.
This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way. The problem with people like Mooney is all he cand is paint black people as the victim. He hardly has anything good to say about black people and what they are capable of and he certainely has no alternative path for black self improvement.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad. You would never see white militants talking so badly about white people.
@C-1:
I TOTALLY DISAGREE, HE TALKS ABOUT ISSUES BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES THAT I THINK WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT TAKE. HE DOES NOT PRETTY IT UP LIKE COSBY DOES AND I LOVE COSBY SO THIS IS NO ATTACK AGAINST HIM. WHITE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER WITH COSBY BECAUSE HE DOES NOT CALL THEM ON THEIR S***. I AM BLACK AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE HE MAKES US LOOK WEAK. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, IT IS BECAUSE YOU THINK BLACKS LOOK WEAK FOR YOUR OWN REASONS. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE? HE CALLS BLACK PEOPLE ON THEIR SHIT JUST LIKE HE CALLS WHITE PEOPLE ON THEIRS. YOU ARE SMART C=1 BUT YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET IT. I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO.
AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT A WHITE MILITANT WOULD SAY OR DO TO OTHER WHITE MILITANTS. YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THAT? HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO COMPARE PAUL MOONEY WITH A BUNCH OF WHITE MILITANT'S OR LETS JUST SAY NEO NAZI'S. AND PAUL MOONEY IS NOT A DAMN BLACK MILITANT HE IS A COMEDIAN. HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WROTE THAT CRAP. BY THE WAY. I KNOW MOST WHITES DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT SHARPTON AND JACKSON THINK. THAT IS WHY RACE RELATIONS WILL NEVER GET BETTER BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE LIKE THAT. SO DON'T BLAME MOONEY FOR SPEAKING ON THE TRUTH BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BUDGE AWAY FROM THEIR RACIST WAYS. PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT LIES AND LET US WORRY ABOUT US EVEN IF IT MEANS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT US AND YOU.
AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT A WHITE MILITANT WOULD SAY OR DO TO OTHER WHITE MILITANTS. YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THAT?
I sure do, I've interviewed white militants as well as black ones. I've also written papers on white nationalism.
HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
Your right, i don't claim to understand or have any knowledge of being black, just as you would not be familiar with being white. And btw my blog is not a "black blog."
I didn't say Mooney is a militant, I just think he paints blacks as weak, like other miltants have been known to do. I'll say one good thing about Nation of Islam they portray what they think is strong about being black.
I'm sure you have heard me say that black women and white men largely don't understand each other and often see things in very different ways, like you and I are doing right now. You can call my opinion stupid crap or racism, but it's an honest opinion. If you don't want' to here it, that's fine.
Siditty, just thought I'd let you know that Dr Phil (never to shy away from sensationalism) is having an 'n'word' debate on friday. One of his guests is... Paul Mooney. Looks like it all got pretty heated by the promo.
C-1 says:
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad.
i think this is well put
this is OT, but you know what, there's a parallel with radical feminists too. so much of what they say actually depends on women being seen as weak and infantilized (the exception being them, the enlightened ones)
I just think he paints blacks as weak,
@C-1:
How does he paint blacks as weak? I fail to see this.
You have a better understanding of white militants huh? Why even compare the two, by saying at least white militants don't put down other whites. What was the point in saying that? It was so drastic. Comparing Paul Mooney to racist. WHy is it that if blacks express their dislike about being mistreated by white people whether we are talking about talk about the past or present racism, why is it a problem? Listen to what he is saying and understand where he is coming from. White militants don't like blacks. Paul Mooney doesn't hate white people. I wonder if you were to ever get involved with a black woman, how in the world you would deal with such issues. I assume you would take the safe route and be with an Asian or Hispanic woman.
WHITE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER WITH COSBY BECAUSE HE DOES NOT CALL THEM ON THEIR S***.
True
I AM BLACK AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE HE MAKES US LOOK WEAK. IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY, IT IS BECAUSE YOU THINK BLACKS LOOK WEAK FOR YOUR OWN REASONS
I don't agree, he stated his opinion, I don't feel that it is a reflection of how he feels about black people, but Mr. Mooney.
HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO COMPARE PAUL MOONEY WITH A BUNCH OF WHITE MILITANT'S OR LETS JUST SAY NEO NAZI'S
Because he does say things that make you squirm about race and has generalizations of white thought based upon his experiences.
HE TALKS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES, EXPERIENCES YOU COULD NEVER BEGING TO UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY BLACK BLOGS YOU PUT OUT.
He has an IR blog, not a "black" blog.
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Superjv,
Maybe I should Tivo that? Sounds interesting, even if I loathe Dr. Phil.
Maybe I should Tivo that? Sounds interesting, even if I loathe Dr. Phil.
yeah, i'll definitely check it out
"WHITE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER WITH COSBY..."
I think Cosby gets a bad rap here. He has never denied who he is. Think of Fat Albert, or the Cosby show... he is always trying to uplift...
The think people forget too, is Cosby was actually quite subversive in the 70s, before he became the cuddly "Jello" pudding guy of the 80s. I think people forget what an institution Cosby was. A major force in pop culture for a stretch of about 25 years. He also happens to be a brilliant comedian. Just listen to his classic records.
Cosby is an equal trailblazer to any of the great comedians (black or otherwise). There would be no Prior without Cosby, he has the same weight and importance.
Most militants make black people seem so weak and incapable of doing much it really makes them look bad.
i think this is well put
@supervj
You Would.
OK Cosby is an institution there is no denying that, but he also is controversial in his own right. Just because Cosby his own chastised race, doesn't make him right, it made him seem self righteous and considering the things that have surfaced about his background, he really had no right to say the things he did. That is why Cosby gets a bad rap.
Cosby was safe and family, Pryor wasn't about playing it safe. Pryor would never have the Pryor Show, where he would be a family man, and be able to sell Jello pudding pops. Cosby has always to an extent been family, even in his early days.
Anon,
You seem a bit defensive? Are you Paul Mooney?
Not to mention Cosby in his routine didn't really deal with race like Pryor, Mooney, or so many other black comediennes So Cosby for white America was much safer.
Anon,
You seem a bit defensive? Are you Paul Mooney?
@ Sid
I know that you are C1's caretaker and everything,but why do I have to be offended because I am expressing my opinion to comments that I don't agree with. I knew it wouldn't be long before you came around to rescue C1.YOu are telling me that you cannot understand where I am coming from at all? Maybe I should be Mooney, he isn't here to defend himself. Sounds like you are offended. What are you upset that C1 will stop being your cyberlover if you don't defend him? You are so funny.
I know that you are C1's caretaker and everything,but why do I have to be offended because I am expressing my opinion to comments that I don't agree with. I knew it wouldn't be long before you came around to rescue C1.YOu are telling me that you cannot understand where I am coming from at all? Maybe I should be Mooney, he isn't here to defend himself. Sounds like you are offended. What are you upset that C1 will stop being your cyberlover if you don't defend him? You are so funny.
I don't think C1 needs a caretaker. He is a grown ass man. Maybe you are used to dealing with little boys, but C1 is more than capable of handling someone like you, an anonymice. It isn't the fact you are disagreeing with his and others comments, it is the manner in which you do it. Apparently having a discussion in which you have a difference of opinion is foreign to you, instead you would rather act like a damn fool.
I never once said I did not understand where you came from, what I did say is that it seems you are offended at another person's opinion. It shouldn't have that much power over you. He thinks Paul Mooney might come off as racist. I can see his point of view, even though I don't necessarily agree with it, much like I can see your point of view, but the manner in which you express this view isn't my cup of tea.
I am not offended, except at your blatant, tired insults.
I don't need a cyber lover. I might tease C1 is my cyber crush, but remember I have a man, and even if I didn't, and he was my cyber lover, it seems you are upset I even have the possibility of being his cyber lover, and he wouldn't give you the time of day, even in cyberspace sight unseen.
I don't see Paul Mooney as racist and nor does he offend me, i don't get offended. I was listening to Mooney talk about how scared white folks were on 911 and how black people could take it because they took slavery. I suppose all those white fire fighters who died trying to save people were just scared cowards. Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it. If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest. This is why there will be no honest conversations on race because people are afraid to be honest, I'm not. If you are Mooney, all I would say is worry about black people more and white people less, cuse your not changing many people's mind on the other side of the aisle.
C1: "This is true to a certain extent, but most white people just don't care what Sharpton/Jackson think and it has no effect on them either way."
They care enough to continuously paint what those out-of-touch fools say as representative of blacks.
Regarding Bill Cosby: Cosby is foul. That's why people disagree with him. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. Most of what Cosby preaches against is a reflection of bad decisions he's made in the past. It may be the guilt driving him to get out of pocket with people. Coupled with that is the fact that he never praises the majority of the black population that aren't hoodrats, on welfare, with multiple children by multiple partners. And he never points out the ills in society that help to create these issues. Contrary to what an overwhelming amount of people want to believe, its not a race problem (whether you blame it on blacks or whites), it's a product of society that's been compounded throughout the nation's history and an issue of personal choices. At any rate, he presents a one-sided, unfair, elementary argument.
Regarding Mooney: I think Mooney is brilliant. His comedy is funny and he makes social commentary. But I do think you guys are giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that this man rose to fame (and helped Pryor become a legend) with this race-based brand of comedy. He's accomplished because of that, it's what he knows and it's why he's known. He's not gonna all of a sudden drop his claim to fame. What is Paul Mooney without race commentary in his comedy? However, I don't think it would be that hard for him to diversify (and not lean so heavily on race commentary) if he tried, but why try? If it ain't broke (and clearly after a 40+ year career, it ain't), don't fix it. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything he says, though. Just to make that clear.
"Racially, nothing has changed in America except the weather"
Is that statement really that far off? Think about it. Legally, a lot has changed. Socially, in terms of what's acceptable behavior and PC, a lot has changed. But I'd venture to say that with regards to race relations and genuine understanding and tolerance, we aren't that much ahead than in the 60s. I don't think it's right to say "nothing", but 'little' might be a bit closer to correct than we'd like to admit. In my opinion (and you don't have to agree), it all depends on from which angle you approach it. We've surgically addressed some wounds while doing little more than putting gauze on others.
*This is not to pick on what anyone has said. Just putting out my opinions.
"I was listening to Mooney talk about how scared white folks were on 911 and how black people could take it because they took slavery. I suppose all those white fire fighters who died trying to save people were just scared cowards."
This is my last one C1, then I'll leave you alone. After 911, a lot of black comedians came out with jokes similar to this one. And I got the joke. He was making the comparison of slavery to an act of terror, which a lot of white people (not most) fail to see it as. To take it further, he was attempting to comment on the sense of paranoia that many minorities have about simply being minority in this country and how that paranoia was elevated to something the whole nation felt all of a sudden; how it was no longer "just a minority thing." None of this is to say that it's not offensive to generalize all white people as cowards (but when has comedy ever been sensitive to generalizations?), especially when discussing 911. Nor am I excusing Mooney, and def. not trying to belittle your feelings regarding him and his jokes. I can understand why he's offensive, I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards).
On a related note, I think this difference of interpretation could possibly help explain what "black consciousness" and "white consciousness" is, though I won't attempt to do it.
" I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards)"
It is understandable, black and white folks are in the U.S. are quite different, worlds apart if you like.
"But I'd venture to say that with regards to race relations and genuine understanding and tolerance, we aren't that much ahead than in the 60s."
I doubt that will ever change. I think the best you can hope for is more open lines of communication.
Siddity, I don't dissagree with any thing you say there about Cosby. I didn't even get in to the poundcake speech or his book, or any of that. I guess to me, part of the difference between Pryor and Cosby as a comedian is more a point of style. The "white people feel more safe with Cosby" is what I was going after, that statement to me, implies a judgement against him. (although it is imperially speaking, correct).
C-1 says:
Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that....
well said, the whole comment.
_
did I really write 'Prior' earlier ? eesh, man i'm tired.
Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it. If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest. This is why there will be no honest conversations on race because people are afraid to be honest, I'm not. If you are Mooney, all I would say is worry about black people more and white people less, cuse your not changing many people's mind on the other side of the aisle.
Are you kidding me? Isn't it nice to have the priveledge of saying that. We are not changing peoples minds you say. So white people are going to think what they want regardless right? We know that. SO why even have communication? Lets just have seperate societies so that whenever blacks speak on our experiences we will not make white people uncomfortable. ALthough you can say and do whatever your little white hearts desire. While black people sit back and take itlike good little field negroes. Sounds like the Militants have gotten to you. YOur comments make my ass hurt. Don't say you are not offended, because it shows in your words.
If you can't have an honest conversation about race don't expect white folks to cut you any slack. I'm not apologizing for racist white folks, just being honest.
You are apologizing for white racists. Maybe you are racist and don't know it. White people are the ones who cannot have an honest conversation about race.For many of them,not all, but many would have to look that ugliness in the face. ANytime a black person says anything about race and what offends us. White people like you come up with excuses. You know in your heart race relations are never going to get better and that you can sit and type what you type while sitting back in your chair laughing because you know your white priveledged ass can talk nonsense about what black people need to do. The racism comes from your people. So why don't you people fix it.Most blacks don't complain about the problems in this society because we are bored, it is because the shit continues to effect us, not you. You won't fix it because you are comfortable the way you are. If black people try and have a discussion about race, you really could not take it, you don't want to know how we feel. You are right about Mooney being bitter. It is not your fault, so don't try and step on his rights to express how he feels. I bet if the Klan was marching down the street spewing how they are losing white priveledge and how white men are becoming the minority you would rush to find a way to defend everything they say and feel.
You know what C-1 people who I have talked to have read your blogs and they question your motives all the time. I would defend you because I felt like you had the right to say whatever you wanted to. Not that you needed me to defend you. I see you in a whole new light now. You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations, I bet you will find something about yourself you did not know was there, I will not dare say it to see you deny it, but you are not that far away from it.
Mooney is bitter, end of story. Maybe he has a right to be but that's not my fault and nothing I do can do will change that....
well said, the whole comment.
You are an idiot.Ofcourse you would agree. BTW it will never be end of story, the story will get even more dramatic before it is all over with.
You are ignorant because you can dish it out but you can't take it.
Why do I have to be ignorant because I do not agree with you. Typical though. Black person expressing how they feel about a comedian who happens to be funny and also telling the truth on some things. Notice I said some. Notice I sympathized with him only because of his experiences in his past, and I am ignorant. You are an ignorant jackass for saying, "don't expect white people to cut you any slack" give me a fucking break. Alot of White people still don't cut blacks any slack and don't give a shit about white people not cutting me any slack, because I know there are some white people out there who can understand where I am coming from. You don't. You have to resort to name calling because you don't have anything else decent to say. I forget you are just a little boy. If a white person wants to get up in my face about my opinion let them. You will lose everytime. Just because you will always be wrong. You do what a lot of white people do C1. YOu act like you are ready for a discussion on race and you are not, especially if the conversation is out of your control. You say don't make you feel guilty, although you do. Not my doing just your guilt for whatever reason. So when you here a black person like Mooney say things it stirs something up in you that you have to question and it makes you uncomfortable that he knows you so well. He can call you on your racism because it is the same shit that has been going on forever. Black people don't want to bring it up. But it is there sometimes and we deal with it the best way possible. Then you have the damn nerve to call that man bitter. You go through what he went through and tell me how you would feel. But don't say he is bitter like he does not have a right to be. You are a fucking hypocrit. YOu can kiss his bitter black ass.
Boy, I know anonymous, after those really nice and fair comments you said about Sid I should just give you a big hug and stop being so mean.
You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations
I've said right here about how I feel about race realtions, I don't put on any rose color glasses. So I said Mooney was bitter? Big deal.. I guess I should just laugh at his "I hate you white people" punchline
.. or his quoting Miles Davis if he had ten minutes left to live "I'd choke a white man to death" Mooney replies "I love that shit" Yeah he's a great dude, wish I knew him, doesn't sound bitter at all.
They care enough to continuously paint what those out-of-touch fools say as representative of blacks.
You make a good point. I am still trying to figure out why these men are supposed to represent me. Who would we consider to be the white leaders of America? The President is supposed to represent us all.
osby is foul. That's why people disagree with him. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. Most of what Cosby preaches against is a reflection of bad decisions he's made in the past. It may be the guilt driving him to get out of pocket with people. Coupled with that is the fact that he never praises the majority of the black population that aren't hoodrats, on welfare, with multiple children by multiple partners. And he never points out the ills in society that help to create these issues. Contrary to what an overwhelming amount of people want to believe, its not a race problem (whether you blame it on blacks or whites), it's a product of society that's been compounded throughout the nation's history and an issue of personal choices. At any rate, he presents a one-sided, unfair, elementary argument.
100% agree, I think that is why some black people were upset by his comments. As much as there might be a tinge of truth to it, it doesn't apply to all blacks, and he left out a ton of factors that contribute to the behavior he didn't like.
Let's not forget that this man rose to fame (and helped Pryor become a legend) with this race-based brand of comedy. He's accomplished because of that, it's what he knows and it's why he's known. He's not gonna all of a sudden drop his claim to fame. What is Paul Mooney without race commentary in his comedy? However, I don't think it would be that hard for him to diversify (and not lean so heavily on race commentary) if he tried, but why try? If it ain't broke (and clearly after a 40+ year career, it ain't), don't fix it. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything he says, though. Just to make that clear.
Very true, his humor is race humor, his first comedy album was called "Race".
We've surgically addressed some wounds while doing little more than putting gauze on others.
I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!
He was making the comparison of slavery to an act of terror, which a lot of white people (not most) fail to see it as. To take it further, he was attempting to comment on the sense of paranoia that many minorities have about simply being minority in this country and how that paranoia was elevated to something the whole nation felt all of a sudden; how it was no longer "just a minority thing." None of this is to say that it's not offensive to generalize all white people as cowards (but when has comedy ever been sensitive to generalizations?), especially when discussing 911. Nor am I excusing Mooney, and def. not trying to belittle your feelings regarding him and his jokes. I can understand why he's offensive, I just thought it was interesting how we saw the same joke in two completely different ways (and I didn't even think about him calling the firefighters cowards).
I took the joke the same way you did and it shows the differences and perceptions of things in a black vs. white world.
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The "white people feel more safe with Cosby" is what I was going after, that statement to me, implies a judgement against him. (although it is imperially speaking, correct).
SuperJV,
I don't think it is a judgement against him, but a fact. I am seen as less threatening to certain whites because of how I talk, where I grew up, and my marriage. My hair being natural to some folks as seen as more threatening and a sign of me being militant vs. just being a girl who doesn't want to straighten her hair.
There is a polarization of stereotypes in this country that affect blacks on an everyday level. It is really kind of sad if you think about it.
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Lets just have seperate societies so that whenever blacks speak on our experiences we will not make white people uncomfortable.
Last time we had separate, but equal, that didn't work out in our favor, and race mixing still continued on.
The fact of the matter is on this one C1 is right, white people aren't able to have the conversation about race, because to them it is an afterthought, whereas for blacks it is a constant. I shocked the hell out of my husband when I told him that every single day of my life, I think about race. I have to think about when shopping in a store, when I am at work or school, or if I am looking for a job. To white people in general their perceptions of race isn't formed by personal experiences, but by what their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television. They may have had a few experiences in the real world, but personal one on one experiences with blacks are limited.
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I bet you will find something about yourself you did not know was there, I will not dare say it to see you deny it, but you are not that far away from it.
Are you thinking his views on Paul Mooney reflect his views on a whole entire race?
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Then you have the damn nerve to call that man bitter. You go through what he went through and tell me how you would feel. But don't say he is bitter like he does not have a right to be. You are a fucking hypocrit. YOu can kiss his bitter black ass.
He was not the only man in all of America to make it out of the civil rights movement. Like I said before, I am not saying I agree with him a 100% of the time, but I do understand him. There is a mistrust of white people, by many black people due to this, I will not take away that feeling and those experiences that led them to that, but I will say that the majority who have these experiences would not dare vocalize them, and I think that is what makes Mooney so brilliant, he will, and he will not hold back. He does go a bit off into the deep end sometimes though, and that might drive certain people of other races away, you can't deny that.
You should question yourself about how you feel about race relations
I know how I feel about race. I know that some blacks use racism as a crutch, some blacks get out and fight it, some blacks feel things will not get much better in terms of racism. SOme whites fight against racism and some are okay with it. I am very realistic about race relations. I have my prejudices and sometimes I speed up my judgement of a person before really getting to know them. I recognize those things within myself. I try and check myself when it comes to race issues because I know not every white person isn't an ignorant racist just like I know some black people want to play the race card because they are too lazy to really deal with life. I also don't give a damn if you are mean or not. I will never meet you.
BTW I never said Mooney was not bitter. I feel he has a right to be. What has your twenty something year old ass ever been through that has ever resembled what Mooney has been through. I know those comments sound harsh. They may not be right, but do you expect an apology for those comments. You put your self in their shoes go back in time to the early 60's let someone tell you " get to the back of the bus boy", "What you lookin at nigga?", Or you have to drink out a designated water fountain,use a different bathroom, walk through the back door of a club for the white people you are performing for, have relatives get lynched, I could go on and on, but you know the history. These men lived through it. Men who have been blatantly hated because they were black. You telling me you cannot understand this man's bitterness. I don't know why I keep going back and forth with you because you are way too far removed from it, I am too far removed from it, but I understand. His hateful words don't make it better, but I sure as hell can understand. White people with sense understand. This is my last entry to you about this because you clearly will never ever ever get it.
He was not the only man in all of America to make it out of the civil rights movement. Like I said before, I am not saying I agree with him a 100% of the time, but I do understand him. There is a mistrust of white people, by many black people due to this, I will not take away that feeling and those experiences that led them to that, but I will say that the majority who have these experiences would not dare vocalize them, and I think that is what makes Mooney so brilliant, he will, and he will not hold back. He does go a bit off into the deep end sometimes though, and that might drive certain people of other races away, you can't deny that.
@Siditty
I know what your are saying Siditty, I just think although Mooney has said some very shocking stuff, to shock both sides. I think some people make more of an effort to see where it comes from. I don't feel C-1 does at all. I apologize to you for the things I said. It was unfair and I should not have said them. I let my emotion get the better of me. I will not apologize for my feelings on this subject, but to anyone else I may have offended I apologize.
They may not be right, but do you expect an apology for those comments. You put your self in their shoes go back in time to the early 60's let someone tell you " get to the back of the bus boy", "What you lookin at nigga?", Or you have to drink out a designated water fountain,use a different bathroom, walk through the back door of a club for the white people you are performing for, have relatives get lynched, I could go on and on, but you know the history. These men lived through it. Men who have been blatantly hated because they were black. You telling me you cannot understand this man's bitterness.
I actually said he might have a right to be that bitter. However, I didn't do those things to him and there is nothing I can about that time.
His hateful words don't make it better, but I sure as hell can understand
In the end I am still white and I must take exception to his comments. I'll never be black or understand black people and I don't expect to or for them to understand me. We don't really have much in common and this conversation certainely touches on that. I'm no fool, when Obama gives his speech on "there is no this or that Americans, just Americans" I know its bullshit and he does too. Yet, there is nothing that I can about it, history has already been done and there is no undoing it. So, I guess we just agree to disagree and I'll go on my way and you on yours, good luck and I mean that with no sarcasm.
The fact of the matter is on this one C1 is right, white people aren't able to have the conversation about race, because to them it is an afterthought, whereas for blacks it is a constant.
I believe this is true, however not so simple. I do think it depends on context too. Remember how I said how much I hated the segregation in Florida ? Well, a big part of that, was that this was the first time I felt like a 'race'. I remember being in this area, in this 'black' McD's with my girlfriend at the time, and we kept getting stares, along the lines of "what are _they_ doing here. It was the first time I had a tiny incling of what it might feel to be a 'color', a minority. I hated that feeling.
To white people in general their perceptions of race isn't formed by personal experiences, but by what their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television.
so this isn't entirely true though. many of the people I work with are black. I don't think of it that way, but it's true. And, in many cases, stories involving race do come up, which I always find interesting and enlightening. I've always had a deep interest in black culture I think in large part because the roots of _all_ popular music are there. (rock, blues, jazz, hip-hop, disco, house, everything !). and I hate to generalize, good or bad, but many of the black people I have known have been very inspirational to me, often overcomming great odds with a deep strength and determination. one thing I love about being in the music world is how integrated it has always been, even when that was nearly impossibe (did you you see "Standing in the Shadows of Mowtown" ? , you should.) yes, there are lots of bad examples here too, I know, (Led Zeppelin ripping off Willie Dixon, still bothers me) but good ones too, like the Rolling Stones brining Muddy Waters out of retirement, and insisting he appear with them on some early TV appearances. OK, I'm wandering here, but my understanding of race is not just "that their family and friends have told them, and what they see on television".
at the end of the day, I'll keep saying it. It comes down to people, to character above all. If I see a person of any color, really I can't make any assumptions about who they are, not one, based on that alone. At the end of the day, we all have more in common than what divides us. I believe this to the core of my being.
I shocked the hell out of my husband when I told him that every single day of my life, I think about race. I have to think about when shopping in a store, when I am at work or school, or if I am looking for a job.
I understand this, it is a statement of your experience. I have to say it strikes me as sad, to feel that, carry that, all the time. I can't imagine.
I cannot talk about race with my husband because he has this view that Black people play the race card and that if people stopped making a big deal about race, we wouldn't have any problems. I disagree. How will we be able to come to some conclusion or understand each other without productive dialogue? being on blogs like these are my only outlet for talking about race.
Starkitty,
Your situation actually sounds pretty normal, there are lots of bw/wm couples that don't discuss race, mostly due to differing opinions I guess.
I cannot talk about race with my husband because he has this view that Black people play the race card and that if people stopped making a big deal about race, we wouldn't have any problems. I disagree. How will we be able to come to some conclusion or understand each other without productive dialogue? being on blogs like these are my only outlet for talking about race.
That is sad, but to an extent I can relate. Many white people are under the perception a black person's sole purpose in life is the pull the race card. Or cry racism for every little thing. Never once do they ever acknowledge the actual racism within their own community or even realizes it exist, unless it is the blatant KKK racism. Me and my husband have had extensive arguments about this, and it gets me in my militant mode, but he does acknowledge the "less blatant" racism he really wants to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I on the other hand don't feel I have the luxury to do that.
I am glad you can come to here and other blogs and discuss your frustration. My husband after the cheesecake incident told me I obsessed about race to much. That was when he realized how often I had to think about race, that it wasn't just an afterthought for me in most instances.
That is sad, but to an extent I can relate. Many white people are under the perception a black person's sole purpose in life is the pull the race card. Or cry racism for every little thing.
I believe that because of his position in the corporate world and from being in the States for 11 years, his views on race are going to be fairly biased and conservative. He has seen Black employees play the race card when they are fired due to mediocre work instead of having a prejudiced manager. I don't know-- that's just his point-of-view, one of many, I suppose. He just believes that there is no excuse for Black people not to succeed in this day and age and that Generation X and Y need to stop complaining about a past that they didn't experience and use it as an excuse as to why they can't get ahead. I disagree with him about this...
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