My husband has a complex relationship with his biological father, his former step father, and his current step father. His biological father was not around for years, and he opted his parents (my husband's paternal grandparents) to step in and help in the child rearing instead. His former step father he isn't a fan of at all, but he is constantly exposed to during times of family gatherings because his brothers were/are his biological children. His current step father is a very complex man. He is a man who absolutely does not want children, but married a woman with three kids, all of whom were under the age of 18 when they married. This one tolerated my husband due to the fact he was a teen and would move out (kicked out) at 17, as the other two boys would live with their father. They did until age 13, and decided they wanted to live with their mother full time. He also has to deal with the many complex issues of my mother in law, which I shared at one time overnight in a blog entry I promptly took down after reconsidering. She has too many DEEP issues to share here. As a result of these issues his current step father uses him as a confidant in regards to their marriage, which honestly you shouldn't do to your kid. My parents have never shared any of their issues with me, and I love them more for it. I like to pretend all 35 years of marriage are awesome and flawless.
With this brief back history it explains all of his father/son relationships. My husband never mowed a lawn growing up and he doesn't now. He never learned how to fix things around the house, or learned how to change his own oil. He never played catch or participated in sports as a child. We have been together nine years, and in this house for five years. He has never learned to trim the bushes in the front yard, never trimmed a tree, and has mowed the lawn exactly one time. He doesn't know the difference between Bermuda or St. Augustine grass, and he knows nothing about spreading seed in a yard. If our fence gets broken I fix it. If the toilet is constantly running, I am the one who replaces the or fixes the flush valve or tank ball. He always thinks to call a plumber for $5.00 repairs. He is scared to death of rewiring the garage door opener on the wall. He opts for a lawn service and has no plans to learn how to care for a lawn. It embarrasses him if I attempt to do my own oil changes, so he encourages me to waste money on going to the oil change place so they can pretend my air filter needs to be replaced.
He had never been fishing until we went with my family to our cabin. No one had even taken him, not his father or step fathers. No one ever played catch with him as a child, and he never went camping, or anything else. A result of this the idea of hiking is crazy and pointless, running is for treadmills only, biking takes place on stationary bikes at gyms, and there is no point of appreciating the outdoors or fishing, or any other activity. He never did any outdoor activities as a kid, not even play outside with other kids, but rather played video games, day in and day out, and a life of entertainment being shopping at a mall, going to the movies, or going out to eat. Anything else is foreign to him. He tricked me early in the relationship by going to a park with me to go hiking. We haven't done that since and that was nine years ago. Before I was attached hiking was a norm in my life, and biking was a growing hobby (even though I swear I will never been the cyclist holding up traffic by riding on the service road of a major highway, I just don't get that, I am more of a trail or mountain bike kind of person).
Another way I knew he never had a dad. My husband learned how to tie a tie from his best friend when he was a teenager. It was part of their uniform at work, and he had no clue how to do it, he never had to until then.
The most obvious proof he never really had a father is the fact that in his mind, a mother is way more important than a father. I vehemently disagree. He feels fathers are secondary and are not needed in raising children the majority of the time. I feel the complete opposite. I feel they are equals to the mother, and only in some cases not having a father is beneficial, and that is based on individual cases of individual fathers. I find fathers are just as important.I find that the lack of fathers in the black community has led to the decline of the community. I find that I couldn't live my life without my father, and he has been influential in the type of relationships I wanted or desired when I was single. My father is truly one of my best friends, even though he is grouchy and bossy, he is an awesome person, and I can't fathom the idea of life without him. I talk to both my mother and father multiple times a week. I probably see them once on a week on average. I literally live ten minutes from them. Both my parents are equally important, and I think my father was so active in my life because he didn't have his father in his life.
I do think my husband will make a good father, but it worries me that he feels that child rearing is more of a woman issue, than a man issue.
I have discussed with my husband my concerns of how important a father is, but he dismisses it. He knows he came out ok, but I don't think he realizes the influence this has had on different aspects of his life. I love my husband, but I see why having a father is important in every child's life by looking at how he perceives the world.
21 comments:
Hey Sid,
While I agree that every child needs a father I would be very suspect of a guy who needed approval from his family. That scares me a great deal. I didn't have a great relationship with my father but I do with my mother. My father has since passed away.
Anyway, what about your sibling(s). It would be interesting to see how s/he views their upbringing. Maybe you value your parents opinion highly. I value my mother's opinion but I always remember that the last word on anything. Maybe it has something to do with living on the East Coast but I do not value my sisters' opinion nor would I ask them or some of my cousins for advice. If my mother was out of her mind, I would not listen to a damn thing she says. I too do not know how to fix a toilet or mow the perverbal lawn (mainly because we have no lawn). I also don't know how to cook. Now when I say I don't know how to cook, I mean I don't marinate meat or fish nor do I make anything from scratch. I don't see this as a flaw--maybe others do but I find this to be a an asset. When the food is too good, you just can't stop eating.
Some people are just not interested in those things. What would happen if he learned all of those skills but decided to hire a lawn company anyway. Would it be because his dad didn't have meaningful talks with him while he mowed the lawn. You may be romaticizing the idea of fatherhood. Now specifically, your husband got the short end of the stick when it came to support so I feel for you and him there but those things don't make a father. Having someone there to love and support you do.
You don't know to miss what you've never had. My parents were never married. I never had to suffer during a divorce but I've also never known what it is like to have a full time father. That is probably why the Obama's relationship means so much to me. They are so loving and affectionate after 16 years of marriage, it is something I have never seen.
First, every time Prince gives me that b'dissy stare, I get a little warm down there... Love that video.
Anyway...
My STBE (soon-to-be-ex) and your husband have a lot in common. My STBE ex was the love child of a young, rural Jamaican woman and a stoosh, older Brit/Japanese/Jamaican heir socialite. My STBE's dad was in his 50s when he was born and had kids older than his mom... Before my STBE turned 4, his dad went back home to live w/his wife.
So my STBE also lacks in the skills that most of us who grow up w/dads take for granted. He also believes child-rearing is woman's work. He even told our shrink that right now, all our son (2 yrs old) needs is his ass wiped and his boo boo's kissed and that when our son is old enough to learn to throw a ball or drive a car, that's when he'll (the STBE) step up and take a more active role...Hence, just one of the many reasons why he's my STBE.
He would get embarassed when I hung coat hooks on the wall or I had to show him how to turn the water off before you install a new faucet. He'd rather pay someone to do repairs, whereas my dad openly said that only sissies hired help.
My dad grew up w/o his father, which made him work harder to be a better man and a better dad. A man who grows up w/o a father can go either way, but which direction he goes depends on the mother. My grandma was VERY strict and had a heavy hand. She was also very sickly, so her kids (6 boys and 1 girl) were responsible, most times, for taking care of the household.
My STBE's mother was very strict but very Jamaican - her belief that boys shouldn't have to do housework or cook is very evident in the way she raised my STBE. When he wasn't treating me like his secretary, he expected me to be his mother.
It's hard for a girl who grew up w/a strong dad to deal w/that. So good luck to you.
'till next time...
I would be very suspect of a guy who needed approval from his family. That scares me a great deal. I didn't have a great relationship with my father but I do with my mother. My father has since passed away.
I don't think that having a close relationship or even a "normal" relationship is seeking approval. His father was in and out of his life and had some issues that we still can't figure out to this day because no one has told us, nor do I think they really know.
Anyway, what about your sibling(s). It would be interesting to see how s/he views their upbringing. Maybe you value your parents opinion highly.
I will say my parents are very much great parents, and I think my husband thinks they do a good job. He can kind of see how I was raised (these kids got a kinder gentler, more tired mom and dad). I will say that he thinks my life was hard because my parents did have really high expectations, and it was sometimes hard to live up to them, which I think he fees shapes my personality. My husband doesn't really feel he can look up to either his mother or father. He loves his mother, but he does realize how he was raised wasn't "ideal" in regards to her issues.
Some people are just not interested in those things. What would happen if he learned all of those skills but decided to hire a lawn company anyway.
It would be different, I wouldn't have an issue if he wanted a lawn service. . He had grown up in an unsteady life where he moved on a constant basis from apartment to apartment, he never had a yard and always wanted one. He always wanted a house. We got that house, but he didn't really know or didn't care to know about the care that came with a house. Now that he knows, he expects me to do such things or handle them. It isn't so much he doesn't know how to do them, but he doesn't care to learn, nor does he like the idea of me doing "man things".
Would it be because his dad didn't have meaningful talks with him while he mowed the lawn. You may be romaticizing the idea of fatherhood.
I don't think I romanticize fatherhood, but maybe I romanticize the division of labor in the household. I want him to do more, he knows this, but in five years this has not changed. I do the bills, I clean the house, do the laundry, take the animals to the vet. I call the lawn service, maintain the car maintenance records, I trim the bushes, fix the toilet. He takes out the garbage and feeds the dogs. He pays the bills now, but this has been going on regardless of if I am working or if I am not.
You don't know to miss what you've never had. My parents were never married. I never had to suffer during a divorce but I've also never known what it is like to have a full time father.
But do you feel your father was there the majority of your life?
Do you value the relationship you have/had with him?
LOL @ First, every time Prince gives me that b'dissy stare, I get a little warm down there... Love that video.
So my STBE also lacks in the skills that most of us who grow up w/dads take for granted. He also believes child-rearing is woman's work. He even told our shrink that right now, all our son (2 yrs old) needs is his ass wiped and his boo boo's kissed and that when our son is old enough to learn to throw a ball or drive a car, that's when he'll (the STBE) step up and take a more active role...Hence, just one of the many reasons why he's my STBE.
That is what I am scared of. I don't want him to think he is to sit back and watch, while I do all of the work. I want him to feel valued and needed from the get go in the rearing of our future children.
Wow, you're husband had it tough :-( I know he's your husband but i still send him a virtual hug. You can give it to him from me.
But:
1) I think it all depends on ones experince, i think it wasn't his fathers absence that made him like that, it was his step-fathers. I know a man whose father hated him and he grew up alone with his mother around women. He is strong, very masculine and knows how to be a handy man. He is married and his wife is expecting a son. He said he would never treat his son the way he was treated and feels every child needs a father-figure. But this is just one story in a sea of many.Hey, Obama turned out alright :-)
2) My Mother never shared her problems with me until recently. But that's because the problems are obvious and we tend to all deal with them as a family. And she's my best friend and i respect and love her a lot. It is wierd that we do that but it's a good dynamic/balance but i'm the sort of person that can take it and not let it affect me, only because i'm older i think. Still i wuld never confide in my own child about my marital issues too traumatising...
3) You should have children.
I want to touch on romanticizing fatherhood.
My father traveled a lot when I was a kid, leaving my mother to raise us on her own a lot, but when he was there, he helped. He did my hair, cooked my breakfast, took me to school, helped with homework, went to school plays. He helped when he wasn't traveling, and he encouraged my mother to go back to school. With that being said, at times my mom was on her own. She was the one who did the Xmas shopping and kept his schedule so that he could attend our plays or our softball and basketball games. She was the one who would cook dinner and drive us around when he wasn't there. I know that if he was gone for a week at a time, she was on her own for that week with everything. She managed the bills, and when the toilet needed to be fixed and he wasn't there, she fixed it. She also gave up her career. She became a teacher so that it would be easy for her to obtain a job because we did move around every few years for my father's job. She did take care of me during the summers my father would leave to go to college to finish his master's in my early years.
I know they had to sacrifice, but it was more give and take than what I have now. In my opinion.
If you don't have a father who is there for you, it's a big disadvantage in a kid's life. Does it mean your doomed? No, but it's a really important part of growing up. I would be absolutely nowhere without my father, so I realize how lucky I am.
Parenting and raising children is an interesting phenomenon. I do agree that "chores" should be split equally and hopefully I'll enjoy my "chores." I'll let him cook and do dishes while I'll do laundry. I would die if my silks were put in the machine.
Anyway, I find it strange when children don't get a chance to go to summer camp--I think it's a natural socializing tool. But hey, I could be wrong.
My father cooked and cleaned and did his fair share but a bastard he was. My parents would have been better off divorced. I don't feel like that experience has skewed my vision of a husband in a negative way though. I know exactly what I DON'T want. My man has to be thoroughly modern though. There is no woman's work when it comes to me. If you still define your role as a man as just a financial provider, then you can't be with me.
My father was around through my teens years, and he told my brother, if you can afford someone to do odd jobs around the house, then go for it, use the extra time alloted to do something you truly enjoy doing....needless to say, my brother heeded that advice..LOL! His wife recently asked why doesn't my brother know how to do that sort of thing, I told her to blame it on our father, but then I asked, what does he do while someone is mowing their lawn, and she answered, "spend time with me and the kid". My father accomplished his goal, I suppose.
But do you feel your father was there the majority of your life?
Do you value the relationship you have/had with him?
I do value my relationship with my father. I have siblings with no father so I know that part time is better than nothing. I only got to be with him some weekends and holidays so I've never felt as comfortable around him as I do my mother. I was always trying to be "good" around him.
You know what you could do, enrol him in an Adult vocational school or those occupational centers. We have great ones in LA, you can learn everything from plumbing to roofing. I attended one for house repair and remodeling its fun. He will be in the company of all those that are trying to learn how to fix their houses and he will acquire some handyman buddies that can help him fix the house. If you can get him there, the rest will fall in place. Home Depots and Lowes have clinics, you can pretend to go shopping then lead him there.
"I asked, what does he do while someone is mowing their lawn, and she answered, "spend time with me and the kid". My father accomplished his goal, I suppose."
I love that....
Although divorced from my husband now, I know that my children's father being in my son's, especially my daughter, lives is important.
He was raised in a two parent home, but it was very dysfunctional and what he deemed how a relationship should be contributed to our relationship's demise.
I grew up without my father and I can tell you I was a basket case when I was young. He left (more like my mother kicked his behind out) when I was five and I threw a fit. He was physically abusive toward me, but I would sneak to see this man and worshiped the ground he walked on. Now that I'm older, I know it was just the little girl inside of me wanting that "man" in my life. I also know this type of "man" is not who I want in my or my children's lives.
I have two sons and their father doesn't do half of the things he does himself around the house with them. I'm Ms. Fix-it too, but when it comes to the car and other things, he'll do it, but he's never taken our boys out to show them. He loves basketball, but our youngest is the only one interested in sports (football and basketball mainly), but still too young to put him in Little league (rolls eyes). Our oldest son loves soccer, but is alright building things, reading and watching Anime, not playing video games much, but he's just a laid back child. He is big (tall and wide) and the only thing my ex-husband wants him to do is play football and my daughter is tall and slim and he wants her to play basketball (she's happy sketching all day!). Because they don't have the interests "he" thinks they should have, he doesn't bother with them and feels they don't "need" him. (This is where his insecurities from his childhood come into play..lol)
So I guess it just depends on the person and how they grew up in that household, but I still agree that children need a father figure (uncle, grandfather, or close family friend, etc) to guide them and look up to. To show them the opposite of the mother's role in their life. Mother's are nurturing, Father's guide and create stability and security.
But this is just my take on it and my personal experience. I wouldn't look at your husband as abnormal, but he's a product of his environment and most likely when you two do have children, he will change his outlook. Let me tell you, children CHANGE EVERYTHING!!!! LMAO...
Fathers or at least a dominant male figure is important to have in a child's life. People forget that Obama had his grandfather so he did have a male role model around him. IMO, A male role model gives boys someone to identify with, set standards, and teach how to be a man. Good fathers/male role models give girls' proper boundaries, can influence her self-esteem and influence she sees herself especially in regards to other men.
Hi,
I'm a very long time lurker I love your blog. My parents were together for 17 years never married. The breakup was bad. I remember telling my mom not to move us with my dad. I knew it was a bad decision. My dad was terrible for the first 12 years of my life. Whenever my dad was by I wanted to piss my pants. My dad isn't a scary man. He's only 5'9 140 lbs. He was mean to me. He had very big expectations. I remember I couldn't ride my bike up the hill but my cousin could. My cousin was praised , while I was whooped. My dad started cheating on my mom, and I knew all along what was happening. I never told my mom, I still wonder what would've happened if I did. He just kicked out one day. Changed the locks and I had to crawl into a hall in the garage door to get us into the house (traumatic exeprience). According to law he owned all our possesions. We went form a 2 story house to 2 room apartments and on welfare. We coudln't fit a 2 room apartment. I had 3 other sisters. My father hurt my mother badly. I hated him for a long time. I started to rebuild my relationship with my dad, and he knows the ball is in my court. I wish I had a dad who was loving and caring for my early years. I won't have children without being married to father, and with a pre-nup. It's hard for me to trust men becuase of what my father did. Sorry for rambling. I can totally understand your dad. I wanted backyard too. I always wanted a horse and vegetable/fruit garden:) I love how kids just want simple things that people take for granted.
No one has mentioned the role a father can have in simply supporting a mother. With due respect to single mothers, it is nearly impossible to manage your time to both provide for and parent a child/children. Many have done it with varying degrees of success but usually with a huge toll on the mother.
Couples can divide up duties any way they like, but raising a family is best as a two person job.
My mother once told me she only had me to reach the top shelf and lift heavy objects.
I will never forget my father making an example of me in front of the other kids at the dinner table (not physically)when I said something disrespectful to my mom. I never did anything like that again.
It is impossible to both be at work and with your children teaching and nurturing them at the same time... unless there are two of you.
Yeah, my Father-in-law is forbidden from having anything to do with our children. My husband hasn't spoken to him in 20 years. It's pretty deep and complicated. He likes to think that he's going out of his way to be a different father to our kids than the one he had. His dad was a Military man, so everything was one way, and one way only. That is the way he is to an extent. I never met him as he's living in another country and estranged from the entire family. It's kind of a weird situation when you have to explain to your kids why they don't have a Grandpa--my Dad died 13 years ago.There is so much dysfunction in my husband's family that I'd wished I'd known about before we got married. But, there's nothing you can do about it, you just have to rise above your childhood and learn from the mistakes your parents made and try not to screw up your kids the way your parents did. Breaking the cycle is key.
here is so much dysfunction in my husband's family that I'd wished I'd known about before we got married. But, there's nothing you can do about it, you just have to rise above your childhood and learn from the mistakes your parents made and try not to screw up your kids the way your parents did. Breaking the cycle is key.
I wish I had known too, my husband's family is so vastly different.
I am a firm believer that having kids can bring out either the best or the worst in people. There are people who really don't grow up until they have children. I was talking to a family member about how her father was not really responsible until her younger brother was born. There were some issues that took place in his marriage that he was the cause of, and something about his youngest son being born changed him and kicked him into gear.
There is also an element of a man who seed a child for the first time that relies on him, that can cause a change in him. Seeing a little life come into being that needs him to be there can be a wake up call to a number of men.
We are influenced by the past, but it doesn't have to be our master. You never know, having children could possibly cause your husband to step us his game and become the man.
"We are influenced by the past, but it doesn't have to be our master. You never know, having children could possibly cause your husband to step us his game and become the man."
I think it will, but at times I think he feels I don't think he is manly enough. The other day I was repairing our comode, it needed a new fill valve. I went to the store to purchase it, but to get the old fill valve out, I needed a vice grip, and not the few pliers we have in the house. I called my father since he is only ten minutes away to ask him for a pair of his. My father, being my father was like I will just come over and do it. He came over, took out the old valve, and replaced it with the new one I bought. My husband became offended I even bothered to call my father. He didn't understand I didn't call him because I didn't think he as my husband couldn't fix it, I called him to borrow a tool. My father took it upon himself to "fix" my issue, which is how he has always been. He sometimes gets bothered I am a bit of a daddy's girl. That me and my father are close, and I know if I am in trouble or need help, I can always call him, and he will come and help me no questions asked. I think he was also bothered that I just started fixing it, without asking, but I just assumed since it was the bathroom he used the most, and he had heard it run for days on end, that he didn't feel like fixing the problem, so I just thought to do it, to save a bit on the water bill.
I need to work on making him feel more manly, and not assuming he doesn't want to fix things. I have learned with my husband at least he isn't inclined to do something on his own when it comes to things that need to be fixed around the house. He needs encouragement for a few days or weeks, and then he will do it. I just get frustrated and do it, and I need to quit that and just tell him to do it.
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