We all know that in America they way whites obtain success and black people obtain success are two different things. Hard work, nepotism, social class, and white privilege are keys to white success. For black people it is hard work, advanced education, more experience, few or no mistakes in their career, and sheer luck.
Some blacks manage to get ahead. Some do it by assimilating into "mainstream culture", some manage to just work hard and move ahead, but for every black that manages to get ahead, there are others who never seem to make it. Lack of opportunities due to social class, educational opportunities, and the realization that to make it is almost impossible in some instances, keep many from succeeding.
When you do succeed, you still fail, because for all your hard work, and your ability to make it, there is going to be some who didn't make it who feel you turned your back on them. Black people are the only race of people who expect a person to become successful to "keep it real". The problem is that sometimes "keeping it real" goes wrong.
You can't expect someone to leave the ghetto to go to school, and then come back to the same damn ghetto and succeed. If you surrounded yourself with people in high school whose ambition in life it was to sling dope on the streets, you can't go back to that and do well. If your neighborhood was filled with men who hang out in front of the liquor store all day, you can't come back to that and do well. St. Ides is not going to help keep your brain cells in tact. So you can't kick it with the boys who drink St. Ides all day long. The only thing you can do is help those who don't do that. You can show a high school student the steps needed to take to get into college or vocational school, because their school won't or their parents just don't know. You can tell a elementary and middle school students the importance of an education, and what to do and where to go if they are struggling, or their parents can't or won't help them. You can tell some of those liquor store men about Job Corps and how to apply. You can tell families about resources available to them to help them get their loved one out of in front of the liquor store, but you cannot save everyone. You can only save those who want to be saved. To succeed, you cannot surround yourself with failure and negativity on a constant basis.
I hate to say this, but in this country we can't be exactly like white people and isolate ourselves into our own community. We need those white corporations, companies, and employers to get ahead until we can start our own businesses. I am not an advocate of isolation, but I do understand that in order to rebuild black communities, we need to look at forming successful black businesses, and right now we need to model ourselves after the traditional business model, and the only way to do that is to work for those companies, learn how they work, and then bring that back to the community. So yeah, we are going to have to "sell out" and go work for the white man so we can learn.
Another thing that irks me is if white people like a black person, that black person is automatically an Uncle Tom. Oprah can't help that white women love her. They like her because she doesn't seem like a threat. I think Oprah knows this, and she is knowing it all the way to the bank. One thing I will say is that Oprah sticks to her guns. She decided a long time ago she wasn't going to continue with the tabloid spin of her talk show when she first came out. Remember Oprah was the momma of the talk shows as we know them today, even Jerry Springer. Oprah used to be on par with the other talk shows. She used to have the KKK on her show spouting "white power". She had the black militants on her show as well. Did she let them duke it out on her show, let's keep it real, she still had some standards, but needless to say, she kept it a little trashy to keep up ratings. She hasn't had to go Jerry to keep her viewers, and the white woman loved has only recently waned, but think about it, we are 20 something years of the same show. She doesn't do a show to necessarily to appease them, if that was the case she would have had Sarah Palin on her show, instead she does shows that interest her, and let's face it over 20 years and several billions dollars more in worth, her interests have changed. I don't think Oprah has become a mammy to white woman, she is now showing her elevation in class, and sometimes she is out of touch. If I were a billionaire, I would dare say I might be a clad out of touch with the reality of the middle class on occasion as well. She has mammified the white women who love her, not become a mammy to them.
Living in the suburbs, the way you talk, managing to get out of a low income area, or never living in a low income area, becoming successful, and having white friends does not make you a sell out. What makes you a sell out is the mentality of thinking that you are somehow better than another person because you got lucky. Yes some people live in the ghetto because they are lazy, but take into consideration many or most aren't, and those that are lazy are dealing with generations of a mentality and surroundings that give them a sense of hopelessness. If you lose touch with humanity, that makes you a sell out.
Ultimately to become a success as a black person is almost a curse because you never ever truly fit in with your white co-workers and neighbors (they never forget about your blackness, and when they do, they actually notice it) and you don't fit in with the "down" black folk. You are on your own, hoping for the best.
27 comments:
Why is it that being black, that we have to equate sucess with having money, opr making substantially more money than the next black man?
To me, thats a problem in itself.
Why are we as black people always concerned with whats in another man's pockets?
We gotta break away from that mindset.
your right about the oprah thing.
It's ridiculous that we as black people make fun of someone who reads a book or likes Maroon 5 as selling out. Why can't you enjoy what you like.
I remember as a kid I was conditioned to believe R n B and hip hop are the only type of music I was allowed to like. Thankfully I broke from that and realized I could listen to whatever the hell I liked.
I agree with everything except the last paragraph. While I could be more successful (we all), I think I'm pretty well off educationally and financially and I never feel like black people think I'm out of touch. Most people think I'm stuck up so I really could care less. I don't carry myself in a manner in which anyone (black or white would talk to me how they feel).
I too like Maroon Five and I would never apologize for liking them. I feel it's fine to not identify with someone who is solely one demensional. I can feel your pain but I can't empathize, only sympathize. In other words, I would never be friends or even acquaintences with someone who calls black people whitewashed or sell outs. Clarence Thomas is a whole animal altogether, he needs help. So if that means I only have two or three really good black friends, then so be it. Most of us only have four really great friends anyway, you don't want someone in your inner circle who is just going to tear you down anyway.
Why is it that being black, that we have to equate sucess with having money, opr making substantially more money than the next black man?
I think it has to do with the fact that the black community is supposed to be close. When one person succeeds, we all succeed, of course some people take that to mean something completely different.
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your right about the oprah thing.
It's ridiculous that we as black people make fun of someone who reads a book or likes Maroon 5 as selling out. Why can't you enjoy what you like.
I remember as a kid I was conditioned to believe R n B and hip hop are the only type of music I was allowed to like. Thankfully I broke from that and realized I could listen to whatever the hell I liked.
I cringed as a child when I was around other black people because I knew I wasn't "down" I didn't listen to R & B, and if a cousin or other family member came to my house and saw my posters on the wall or looked at my tapes (yeah I am that old), they would look at me crazy and shake their heads.
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I agree with everything except the last paragraph. While I could be more successful (we all), I think I'm pretty well off educationally and financially and I never feel like black people think I'm out of touch.
People hear my voice and assume I am out of touch. I have a friend who assumed I would never listen to hip hop, but rather Britney Spears (how insulting is that) or Chris Daughtery like music. She assumed I hated black folks because I had white friends.
Most of my teasing as a child came from black folks, and it was the "you think you're better than me" cause I "talked white", it never occurred to me I "talked white" or "acted white" until I was around black kids, because the white kids always made sure I knew I was black. I didn't know the dances, I didn't listen to the music, or wear the same kind of clothes. I was out of touch, but not because I tried to avoid it, but because I simply didn't know there was a difference in how blacks and whites acted.
As I have gotten older I have acquired some black friends, but most are like me, but I still have dealt with people in work situations who make that assumption about me, or simply don't like me because they assume I am super white and enjoy mayonnaise sandwiches and want nothing to do with blackness. Me being natural has gotten me accused of wanting to be white. Wash and go hair is something only white people can do apparently.
siddity said..."Most of my teasing as a child came from black folks, and it was the "you think you're better than me" cause I "talked white", it never occurred to me I "talked white" or "acted white" until I was around black kids, because the white kids always made sure I knew I was black. I didn't know the dances, I didn't listen to the music, or wear the same kind of clothes. I was out of touch, but not because I tried to avoid it, but because I simply didn't know there was a difference in how blacks and whites acted."
sky says... i know exactly what your talking about. i grew up not knowing anything about hip-hop/r&b. i grew up on reggae so that's my first love of music. so people look at me weird when i don't know any of the old school rappers/singers. im still far behind on it. take for instance and i know someone is gonna slap me. i didn't know who 2pac and biggie were until they were dead. no clue! i was too busy enjoying my childhood to worry about rap beef. why would i want to remember that. but in all this it doesn't make me any less black. geeze!
You work with some pretty stupid people. I haven't heard it in a long while but people said the same thing about my voice or rather they thought I was white until they met me. I've actually always sounded this way. My sister and I speak the same way--we speak like my mother even though I grew up around black kids who developed the regional accent. I suppose they got it from their parents.
"If you lose touch with humanity, that makes you a sellout."
Nice point.
I rarely speak in ebonics, even in the hood. Someone once called me on it as acting white. I told them that by speaking in ebonics, that would be assuming that they were uneducated. We're actually pretty good friends now. He asks me a bunch of stuff about situations that he isn't really accustomed. I think that it has more to do with how an idea or concept is stated. There are some smart people in the hood who never had anything expected of them.
It's interesting that many of my non-black friends speak more street than do I (but with each word properly pronounced). It's not that they are acting black. Black culture seems to have blended in with popular culture these days.
Rippa - I beg to differ. If Obama wins as POTUS, he will be seen as more upper class than Fiddy (although Obama's estimated net worth will be about 1% of Curtis'). Money, in most cases is seen as a sort of measuring stick to one's accomplishments. There are many other factors. Once someone gets money, they have to realize that it isn't all about oneself. Many blacks need to realize that there is more to being black than just being black.
You work with some pretty stupid people. I haven't heard it in a long while but people said the same thing about my voice or rather they thought I was white until they met me. I've actually always sounded this way. My sister and I speak the same way--we speak like my mother even though I grew up around black kids who developed the regional accent. I suppose they got it from their parents.
I speak like my mom too!!! I am worried though my little sister informed me that we don't talk black and that white and black folks talk differently. I am curious to learn where she picked that up from.
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uglyblackjohn
It is nice to see someone from Beaumont on here :) I rep Cathedral Christian School kindergarten class of 1981 :)
here are some smart people in the hood who never had anything expected of them. It's interesting that many of my non-black friends speak more street than do I (but with each word properly pronounced). It's not that they are acting black. Black culture seems to have blended in with popular culture these days.
Very, very true. I've met some very smart people from the hood, and could compete academically with some of the best and brightest if given the same opportunities and tools they were given. I have a blonde haired, blue eyed friend who has proclaimed she is blacker than me and more hood than I could ever be. I was a bit insulted at first, as I think she feels since she loves to listen to some Tupac and dated a black guy, that has blackened her. I have learned to just shake my head and tell her yes, she is an honorary black. It makes her feel better. She hasn't fully grasped black culture outside of BET, but she is learning.
Hey Siditty!
There are some pretty amazing conversations going on about black americans, class, and the mentalities of success and failure at http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/.
This is such a good post. People need to "keep it real" by keeping their eye on their real, tangible goals.
LOL Sid,
My voice is pretty high (so I am told) so I think people have to get over the initial shock of that. Then add to the fact that I don't have a regional accent (ha! I can be a newscaster) people are really taken aback. I do pepper my speech with slang because it always gets a laugh. Imagine Katy Couric saying, oops, my bad and I know son. I mostly do it for comic effect.
Have you ever read anything by Iceberg Slim? I mean the author Robert Beck?
Everything he wrote except Momma Black Widow should be required reading for anyone going into business.
I am still firm believer in the school of hard knocks. People are always shaking their heads at my business choices. I figure when people stop laughing at my choices and start agreeing with me then its time to change directions again.
Success is always about doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing. One of the wealthiest business men I know cannot read and another barley spoke English before he died. (all my friends are over 70, people under 60 don't hold much weight with me)
What a stupid post by Sisitty. Your idea that whites have success because of their race and blacks don't because of their race is non-sense. There is not a single elite institution in the country that is not twisting itself into knots in favor of African-Americans, instituting double standards for the sake of "diversity." After college, law schools, business schools, medical schools, engineering schools and others accept black students whose test scores would disqualify them if they were white or Asian. The preferences continue into the professions.
What a stupid post by Sisitty. Your idea that whites have success because of their race and blacks don't because of their race is non-sense.
Explain to me why in this day and age a white man with a felony record has a better chance at employment than a college degreed black man?
There is not a single elite institution in the country that is not twisting itself into knots in favor of African-Americans, instituting double standards for the sake of "diversity." After college, law schools, business schools, medical schools, engineering schools and others accept black students whose test scores would disqualify them if they were white or Asian. The preferences continue into the professions.
What profession allows for blacks to be less qualified than whites. My father worked for a company until five years ago had white people with barely associates degrees in the same position as black people with PhDs......and what college graduates black people with low GPAs? Are professors encouraged to "pass" black students at the expense of white students? Please let me know which school does that. Maybe in admissions blacks might get a shot, but once in college, you gotta prove yourself with grades, and believe it or not, not all black folks who get into college got in for simply being black. Believe it or not some of us minorities are smarter than some white folks out there. My dad and mom got into college before the advent of Affirmative Action, so explain to me what "free pass" they got?
Also note, I live in Texas where George Bush got rid of race based admissions, and instead guaranteed that those who got in the top 10% of their high school class were automatically granted admission to the state college of their choice. You know who benefitted. Blacks and Hispanics. You know who got upset? White people like you who were pissed off at Affirmative Action, but now are pissed off that some kids father can't donate large amounts of money to buy them into a school they don't belong to, that their college legacy counted less because their daughter couldn't muster up the grades in high school. Now that money and race doesn't override grades in admissions, white people still aren't happy.
So no matter what happens white people like you will automatically assume us colored folks are less intelligent and took a precious spot from your white child, even though you white child was a c student with a below average SAT score than a black, hispanic, or asian child.
Also answer why is it ok for a white person to move up because their dad plays golf at the same country club as the President of a company? Why aren't you in arms about that? Nepotism gets you a job and a better promotion than my black skin ever could.
I've always wondered if the term "Sell Out" is another term used by people who are jealous of a Black person's success?? I know that I've been called a sell out lots of times because of the men I've dated and the one I ultimately married, the way I speak, where I live, my education, etc. So, staying in the "Hood" makes you more authentic? In other words, it's like as long as you don't surpass everyone else, they will see you as their equal. It so irks me how Oprah gets bashed on these other "so-called" black message boards. One person commented and said that Oprah wasn't even relevant to the Black community anymore because her shows' subject matter does not address the issues of the community. People have said the same about Obama. I mean, is he supposed to talk about being Black and Black Power 24/7 to be considered an "Authentic" Black man? Why can't excellence and success be equated with being Black? Why is it considered White? In HS, I was in Honors classes, so I was accused of wanting to be White. It irked me then and it still irks me now when I hear that term "Trying to be White". Some of us need to aspire to do more with our lives and know that what we came from does not define where we are going or who we will become. I agree with Rippa--we need to break away from that mindset. It's a crippling way to think.
I am around many "successful" Black people and I don't understand what is meant by selling out. What I know is that everyone, White or Black, has to work hard to be successful. It's not something that drops into your lap. Even Whites who inherit money have to do something to maintain their wealth - invest well, expand their businesses, etc.
Selling out is having a bunch of children out of wedlock, which you cannot take care of.
Selling out is killing, robbing and destroying your own people.
Selling out is continuing the cycle of child abuse, domestic violence and black-on-black violence that is plaguing the Black inner city.
Selling out is not becoming "successful" and moving to a nicer neighborhood, or staying in school and getting a well-paying job. These are things that we should all be aiming for.
First let me say, "Amen, Jamdown!" I think you hit the nail on the head.
Siddity, I take exception to this sentence. "What makes you a sell out is the mentality of thinking that you are somehow better than another person because you got lucky." I don't think I got lucky. I worked my butt off to get where I am. And I'm not sorry, but I do think I'm better than people that just want to sit on their butt and blame whitey for all their problems.
I understand that there are some people who have lost hope. My heart aches for them, but you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. And they will never get out of that mentality until we realize the rappers are the sellouts, not Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell.
I don't think I got lucky. I worked my butt off to get where I am. And I'm not sorry, but I do think I'm better than people that just want to sit on their butt and blame whitey for all their problems.
You got lucky. For black people it isn't just enough to work your butt off to succeed in this country. My father has worked for the same company for almost 30 years, has a master's degree, and moved up and worked his tail off for his company, but he still says he is lucky to be where he is at. The man who was suppossed to interview him for the job almost 30 years ago didn't really like black folks too much, especially uppity one, and in his place was someone who was willing to look at work experience and education to hire my father. That is luck. I have met countless black folks who worked their tails off in college,to come out to work at a call center working for a high school drop out whose daddy was a hiring manager.
It isn't about blaming whitey when some folks don't succeed. Sometimes "whitey" isn't ready to be considered an equal with black people, as the stereotype is we are all lazy and sitting on our butts blaming "whitey".
I once had a manager who realized I wasn't poor, and that my husband made more than him, that killed him. Before that we were cordial, after that he rode my tail, and tried many a time to "trap" me into things. Thankfully I play by the rules and document everything. He once tried to get mad that I did document everything, and once I left that manager's team and went to another one, my new manager during a performance review talk told me he was impressed with how hard I worked. how nice I was, and how well I did, because the other manager had bad mouthed me to him, telling him I was stuck up, rude, and acted like I didn't want to work there.
Just because I didn't come from poverty, it doesn't make me better than someone who did live in poverty. It just means I had opportunities they didn't have. Some folks didn't have family or friends who encouraged school. Some folks don't learn that they can get financial aid to pay for college. Some folks don't have access to a car or public transportation system that can get them to an area of town with more job opportunities.
Siditty, please clarify. Are you saying that if a black person succeeds it's luck, but if a white person succeeds it's not?
We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I most certainly did not get where I am because of luck. I came across people both in education and in my career that tried to treat me unfairly, but I didn't roll over. I fought back. It's persistence. You have to keep knocking on doors until you find one that opens.
I didn't say that all people who come from poverty sit on their butts. I know that some struggle. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the ones that don't even bother to try to find opportunities.
Siditty, please clarify. Are you saying that if a black person succeeds it's luck, but if a white person succeeds it's not?
I never once said that you roll over or crawl into a corner. I never said that black people could magically sit on their butts and succeed. I do believe that the obstacles for black people in the work and education world are greater than they are for whites. For instance a white high school graduate will on average be picked over a black college graduate for a job. That is just truth. I am saying that hard work isn't enough for black people to succeed in this country. You have to make sure that you don't have people in positions of power with prejudices, which I hate to say, there are people in power with prejudices and assumptions, and many times some white people are ok with you, when you are their equal or below them, but get ahead of them, you have to watch your back in the workplace. Don't get promoted before them, have them realize you make more than them, or they realize you have a bigger house or car, they will get mad, and that can bite you in the butt. Trust me on this one. When I work, I don't tell people ish about my personal life, except the superficial (i.e. my pets, what I did for the weekend within reason, etc.) I don't tell people I work with when I leave the country, I don't tell them my husband buys me jewelry. I don't tell them what kind of car I drive, they just have to figure it out themselves, or how big my house is, or what part of the city I live in, I don't want to rub folks the wrong way. The concept of an "uppity negro" is a hinderance, and when you do work hard, many times folks find excuses to prove you aren't hard working. In my first job out of college I got into a Leadership Development program in which only a handful of employees were selected. People were in shock and awe I got in, and then told me I was getting too big for my britches and trying to move ahead too fast. Never once was this said to any of the white male co-workers in this program who had been there a shorter time, do you wonder why that is? I do work hard, I was always told I had to be better and work harder to get ahead as a black woman, so I don't think success is due to luck alone, but it does in some parts play a factor into how black people succeed. I know a ton of hard working black people who have been look over for promotions, pay raises, and the like.
My overall reason for the "luck" statement was to show the paths to success for whites and blacks are different in many ways. It isn't just hard work and education that gets you ahead as black person. You have to work better, harder, and smarter than your white counterparts to just be an equal to many whites in the corporate work place.
"My overall reason for the "luck" statement was to show the paths to success for whites and blacks are different in many ways. It isn't just hard work and education that gets you ahead as black person. You have to work better, harder, and smarter than your white counterparts to just be an equal to many whites in the corporate work place."
Ok, thanks for clarifying. Yes, sadly I have to agree with you. You do have to work twice as hard to get half as far, and it's not fair. And I'm sorry about the negative experiences you've faced in your career.
The luck thing struck a nerve with me because I had flashbacks to high school. :) I worked my butt off in high school to be the valedictorian, and all the while I had other black kids trying to tear me down and a couple of white teachers trying to mess up my grades. The black kids picked on me every single day from fifth grade until the time I graduated. But their taunting fueled me to work harder. That's why I got angry with your luck comment. I don't consider myself lucky and them unlucky because I applied myself and they didn't. They were more concerned about being popular and being down. And they are not from the poverty you are talking about, so they don't have that as a valid reason.
So sometimes people don't go back because it's too painful for them. But I have tried to contribute, I ran a tutoring program for a couple of years to help the kids that wanted to be helped.
Siditty is a dumb racist. The fact is the vast majority of whites get their jobs based on merit. You don't cite any sources for your pseudo facts. The majority of blacks get into top schools and get jobs because of Afirmitive action.
Ever since California voters banned the use of racial preferences in government and education in 1996, the University of California has tried to engineer admissions systems that would replicate the effect of explicit racial quotas while appearing color-blind.
To some observers, the legality of those efforts has long been suspect, but proof of wrongdoing has been hard to come by. Now a professor who sat on UCLA's committee on undergraduate admissions is charging that the school is deliberately taking race into account when deciding which students to admit. The university has refused to give him access to the data to test his claim, prompting the professor—political science faculty member Tim Groseclose—to resign from the school's admissions oversight committee in protest.
UCLA's stonewalling is misguided and futile. Though the University of California has always jealously guarded information on its students' qualifications and its admissions procedures, enough details have come out over the last 10 years to suggest that race remains a factor in many parts of the system. More important, hard evidence is accumulating that enrolling students in a college for which they are academically unprepared does them a disservice.
The story begins with the passage of Proposition 209, the 1996 anti-quota ballot initiative, which reduced the number of African Americans admitted to campuses across the state and sent UC officials into crisis mode. They began implementing a series of admissions changes intended to bring underqualified blacks and Latinos back to the system's most demanding campuses.
They tried a preference scheme for low-income students, but it backfired when it boosted the number of Eastern European and Vietnamese admissions—not the sort of "diversity" the university had in mind. Administrators cut the low-income preferences in half and went back to the drawing board.
The subsequent admissions gambits, which continue to be rolled out to this day, are intended to increase "diversity" without running afoul of the law. Whether they have succeeded in substituting other factors for race in a permissible manner, or whether they are illegally seeking to pervert the requirements of the law, will probably be decided, in the end, in court.
Berkeley's Boalt law school, for example, reduced the role of academic qualifications in ranking students; the resulting disparities between minorities and whites at the school were enormous. In 2002, Boalt admitted only 5% of white students in a low academic rank, but it admitted 75% of black applicants in the same range.
At UCLA, from 1998 to 2001, black applicants were 3.6 times as likely to be admitted to its undergraduate college as whites, and Latinos 1.8 times as likely, even after controlling for economic status and school ranking, according to an unpublished study by statistician Richard Berk.
The most powerful tool that the University of California has come up with to engineer such outcomes is something it calls "comprehensive review," which, as the president's office delicately put it in 2003, "broadens the conception of merit." Under comprehensive review, a student's academic qualifications are boosted or demoted according to various factors, including his or her life situation—whether he or she lives in a high-crime neighborhood, has been a shooting victim, is a single parent or comes from a single-parent home, for example.
Even with such a relativist take on academic credentials, UCLA still faced a dearth of qualified black students. In 2005, under enormous political pressure to increase the low black enrollment at UCLA, acting Chancellor Norman Abrams all but demanded that the faculty adopt a more radical version of comprehensive review—"holistic" review—which deconstructs the idea of objective academic merit even further.
UCLA's associate vice provost for student diversity also directed the admissions committee to increase the number of blacks who read and rate student applications, resulting in a 25% black representation among readers, more than three times the ratio in California's population.
Abrams had assured the black community that UCLA would increase its black admissions rate, and sure enough, holistic review did just that. For 2006-07, the last year under the old system, UCLA admitted 250 black students; the next year, it admitted 407.
The average combined SAT score for black admits dropped 45 points to a level about 300 points lower than the average among white and Asian admissions, according to a report by Groseclose. Blacks' chances of admission rose from 11.5% to 16.5%, while that of Vietnamese students, who tend to come from poorer households, dropped from 28.6% to 21.4%.
Groseclose wanted to evaluate whether a student's mention of his race on his application essay affected his chance of admission under holistic review. The university refused to turn over the necessary data, citing privacy concerns. But its reasoning is specious. The essence of the university is transparency. Groseclose has promised to abide by all applicable privacy restrictions. He has even offered not to publish his findings anywhere but to use them only to advise UCLA on its compliance with the law.
Even if UCLA continues to keep Groseclose away from its data, the flimsy justifications for racial double standards are crumbling just as fast as the myth that they no longer exist at the University of California.
Students admitted with drastically lower qualifications than their school's norm frequently end up in the bottom of their class and take much longer to graduate, if they graduate at all. UCLA law professor Richard Sander has shown that black law students, almost all of whom receive large racial preferences in law school admissions, are six times as likely as whites to fail the bar after multiple efforts. The reason, Sander has argued persuasively, is that students learn less in an academic environment pitched over their heads than they would in a school that matches their capabilities. Thus, racial double standards can end up hurting black and Latino students rather than helping them.
Yet UC administrators continue to devise new schemes to admit poorly qualified minority students to their most competitive campuses on the ground that objective tests of academic merit are not related to subsequent performance. The fact is, nothing else comes close to the predictive power of aptitude and other objective tests—including the "spark" and "leadership" qualities that UC administrators purport to be seeking these days.
The academic elitism behind the effort to shoehorn underqualified black and Latino students into UC's flagship schools is an insult to the rest of California's college and university system. The proportion of underrepresented minorities in the UC system as a whole has returned to its pre-209 levels. "Irrelevant!" say preference supporters. Berkeley Chancellor Robert Birgeneau has complained that there are not enough black and Latino students at Berkeley to provide minority communities with the "leadership" they need—in other words, don't expect UC Riverside or Cal State Long Beach to graduate "community leaders." But if attending Cal State Northridge or Santa Monica Community College would so impair the life chances of black and Latino students, why should any student be subjected to such a fate? Why not close down all second- and third-tier schools so that everyone can get an elite degree?
The energies that have been expended since 1996 to re-create a full-blown preference regime have been wasted. While UC race advocates have fiddled with their admissions criteria, the test score gap in California has widened. Blacks' average math SATs in 2007 were 429, compared to 564 for Asians and 549 for whites, according to the California Department of Education. On reading, blacks scored 438, compared to 510 for Asians and 541 for whites. The dropout rate in 2007 was 41.6% for blacks, 15.2% for whites and 10.2% for Asians.
These figures reveal the true educational crisis in California: It is in the state's elementary and high schools and in its homes, not in the universities. If, over the last decade, pro-preference faculty members and administrators had devoted their considerable talents to tutoring minority students and convincing them and their families that learning is important, Groseclose's whistle-blowing might not have been needed.
"I don't think Oprah has become a mammy to white woman, she is now showing her elevation in class, and sometimes she is out of touch."
LOL! Sid,
I think Oprah's popularity arose out of being seen as a mammy. Alot of money later these women may now be realizing that they have been punked. And as you say may have become mammies themselves. I don't know but I strongly believe Oprah was a mammy for sometime.
White-Black relations are complicated in this country. When I am with Europeans I am rarely conscious of my skin color. This happens with Americans. I guess one has to learn to deal with it.
I am glad that someone else shares my view of cultural privacy like that video you posted a while back. Black people are an independent unique group and no matter what we will always be seen differently.
While still very naive I always forgot when just getting to know someone that in America's eyes first and foremost I was black. Regardless of how nice people appear at one point their perception of black people will comeout. And if you are not prepared, you will be very dissappointed.
In my culture we don't have the concept of persona and your real self. You just are and you say what you mean. I have now learnt to cultivate a persona for the American environment. And that is largely, agreeable friendly, non threatening( unless abolutely necessary), non color conscious (working hard to perfect that) and excessive smiling/grinning included.(Non Black Americans like a smiling negro).
So basically the way to survive this environment is to live these alternate personalities. I think there is a book out there about black women having to do this. Its the only way around here.
If I need to be my self, I contact a friend or a family member.
"There is not a single elite institution in the country that is not twisting itself into knots in favor of African-Americans, instituting double standards for the sake of "diversity." After college, law schools, business schools, medical schools, engineering schools and others accept black students whose test scores would disqualify them if they were white or Asian. The preferences continue into the professions".
Call it black privilage, So?
What are you willing to do about white privilage?
At UCLA, from 1998 to 2001, black applicants were 3.6 times as likely to be admitted to its undergraduate college as whites, and Latinos 1.8 times as likely, even after controlling for economic status and school ranking, according to an unpublished study by statistician Richard Berk.
Your math doesn't make sense. Shouldn't UCLA be majority black and hispanic if that is the case.
To some observers, the legality of those efforts has long been suspect, but proof of wrongdoing has been hard to come by. Now a professor who sat on UCLA's committee on undergraduate admissions is charging that the school is deliberately taking race into account when deciding which students to admit. The university has refused to give him access to the data to test his claim, prompting the professor—political science faculty member Tim Groseclose—to resign from the school's admissions oversight committee in protest.
So one guy says it happens,it must be true, and there is no proof. I like how you conveniently overlooked my example of how eliminating race based admissions in Texas has caused in uproar in white people since now they say grades shouldn't be the only factor that gets one into college. Refer back to it, because obviously you didn't read about it, and there is concrete proof to show that.
Your whole post was about one school in one state.
In terms of race and salary.
Look here, here, here, and here
I would say using one example of unproven race based quotas versus stats from the government are pseudo science.
It is hard for you to believe that racism still exists, but I bet you are perfectly fine with believing that most blacks are lazy and prone to crime.
Just FYI, I got into college based upon my grades, I was in the top quarter of my predominant white school, and scored fairly high on my SATS, my SAT was above the normal average of the college I graduated from. Of course, in your mind, I just applied and got in with my skin color alone, and again why are you not upset when your white counterparts get in based upon legacy?
Can you show me where your assumptions come from, can you prove them as fact?
"Siditty is a dumb racist. The fact is the vast majority of whites get their jobs based on merit. You don't cite any sources for your pseudo facts. The majority of blacks get into top schools and get jobs because of Afirmitive action".
Look at this hypocrite.
So your little celebration of the ban on affirmative action in California was short lived. Get over your self. Hook or crook the injustices of the past will have to be addressed. Deal with it. In the meantime take full advantage of your white (or what ever it is you have) privilage while it still exists.
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