Emeritus provided me with a link to this article at Clutch Magazine. It was a great article, but a bit frustrating. The comments even more so.
I guess my biggest beef with the article was the fact she made it seem she finally "settled" for a white man, because back men couldn't commit. I would hate for my husband to think he was a last resort because I couldn't find a black man. That is just kind of insulting and degrading to my relationship. Someone in the comments made it seem that IR relationships are not genuine because the goal for most women in these relationships is simply to get married and have the status of being married. As if love doesn't fit into the equation.
I guess what bothered me more was a lot of the comments on both sides of the issue. You had the black man who acknowledged his approval of IR, but felt the need to inevitably talk about how black women react to his white dates, and it seems whenever a black woman explains her experiences about IR, a black man is there to talk about the nastiness of black women, as if all black women are sitting around hating black men and white women relationships. Another thing that bothered me was people talking about the history of racism, as if those of us in IR have forgotten all things about racism. Colorism was addressed in the comments, but dismissed by the majority of self identified black men in the comments. There was also a need to blame the problems of black relationships and the black community on black woman. In the article, the writer talks about how parents and their divorce and how the family felt abandoned by the father emotionally and financially. A commenter indicated it was the fault of the woman for choosing the wrong man. People divorce all the time, and last time I checked it wasn't always the woman's fault. Not to mention this wasn't a one night stand, the couple was married, raised a family, and when the father left, he just left, it wasn't like these people weren't married and barely knew each other, this was an actual marriage with multiple children. What shocks me the most about the "blame black women" mentality is that both black men and black women subscribe to this belief. It is frustrating to me.
Overall I feel there is still this stigma and a whole bunch of stereotypes that abound in regards to relationships between black women and white men, and even though some of us are in those relationships we fall for these stereotypes hook, line, and sinker.
25 comments:
Interesting stuff.
I do agree there are lingering stereotypes and attitudes but overall in my experianc the WM/BW combo is still quite novel to most, where as the BM/WW is more prevelant and more fraught with issues.
WW are still thought to be taking a walk on the wild side, or lashing out at thier father and the BM is assumed to be taking advantage of a status symbol/hussy.
When people see me and my wife they predominantly have questions, when they see that other couple they think they already know.
It is true though, I am quite the colonizer. My little colony seems to be taking all my money and time... how do I get in on some of this exploitation business?
I read this article and rolled my eyes. I read some of the comments but I stopped after awhile because I knew it was more of the same crap.
"What shocks me the most about the "blame black women" mentality is that both black men and black women subscribe to this belief. It is frustrating to me. "
Didn't you know that this is the real "Black National Anthem"?
I was a little put off by the theme that white men are a second choice. Why can’t black women just choose quality men of any color? Stop with the excuses. There are a lot of non black men who love black women. The negative reaction to interracial dating is indicative of insecurity and ignorance.
Lips
This bothers me over and over again! Why all the talk about black men? I mean most of the ir bloggers spend the majority of the time talking about black men or the black community. Do you ever notice how so many of these articles start out with the black women who couldn't find any black men and were pushed/forced into dating a non black man?
@brohammas
smdh. :-)
i'm getting so sick of the mentality that some bm have when it comes to wm/bw. why is it always "oh bw have attitudes towards ww/bm and that's why they date wm blah blah blah, dipped in chocolate..." believe it or there are alot of bw who could give a sh*t less about bm/ww or bm/hw or whoever, they're really not the center of the universe. its like a double edged sword bw stays single because she's "supposed to wait for her IBM," then she's stupid and probably has an attitude and thats why she can't get a bm (cause we all know its always the bw's fault for everything) or if she marries a non-bm, especially a wm, then "she's trying to make bm jealous/ get revenge," or she's just emotionally confused and desperate, so she "had to take a wm." when are bw going to be allowed to be happy and when are people going to stop harassing us no matter what we do?
I think it comes down to what (or whom) you are accustomed to.
If you grew up in Newport Beach, California - you're attraction would probably lean more towards a European point of view, in terms of your expectations and desires.
If you grew up in a majority Black town, your values may be more in keeping with that town.
But it's not limited to how you were raised. Some people see themselves as better than their environment and become aspirational - seeking everything that goes along with their idealized vision.
Others may see themselves as their environment - and seek a mate with those traits that allow them to flourish while staying in the same place.
But still others may be capable of flourishing in any environment - these are they who get the pick of the crop.
Then it becomes a choice of the person who they; may get along with better than others, have developed a trusting relationship, or just plain think are hot.
As brohammas says, there are a lot of reasons why one person may be attracted to another.
How come we never see articles with white men discussing their preference for dating black women? It seems whenever there is a discussion of WM/BW relationships, the idea that's shoved down our throats, is that black women are reluctant to date white men, resulting in fewer of these relationships.
For some reason, jeez...I don't know why...I recently joined an online dating site and had the pleasure of reading posts from white males who view black women negatively...I can't even repeat the dehumanizing dialogue. At no time after hundreds of these posts, does anyone come to black women's rescue. On the flip side, were pandering, desperate black women (young girls) who would say anything to get WM attention and prove they were unlike any of those crude stereotypes. After enough of the horror, I deactivated my account.
From my perspective WM do not approach black women. They approach Asian women but not black women. I find a lot of white men may be attracted to us, but they hold the same stereotypical views as black men. They usually want a "strong" sista to initiate the relationship and do everything for them.
In every single WM/BW relationship I've personally witnessed, it's the black woman who initiated the relationship and does everything. WM feel they can be passive when it comes to black women, but suppose the BW is introverted and shy? Then what?
It is true though, I am quite the colonizer. My little colony seems to be taking all my money and time... how do I get in on some of this exploitation business?
I am sorry brohammas, that ship sailed a while back ago. Now you just gotta pay and support the colony, spending the money on that wife and your babies :) That is really why black women are starting to date white men, reparations for all the colonizing from back then j/k.
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I was a little put off by the theme that white men are a second choice. Why can’t black women just choose quality men of any color? Stop with the excuses. There are a lot of non black men who love black women. The negative reaction to interracial dating is indicative of insecurity and ignorance.
Very true growing up all my crushes were white guys, were all of them into me, hell to the no, but that is what I was attracted to was white guys. Not that I don't find black guys attractive, but if a cute white guy asked me out, I sure as hell wasn't going to turn it down, even if I was a bit skeptical that a white guy could even find me attractive.
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This bothers me over and over again! Why all the talk about black men? I mean most of the ir bloggers spend the majority of the time talking about black men or the black community. Do you ever notice how so many of these articles start out with the black women who couldn't find any black men and were pushed/forced into dating a non black man?
That kills me. I always liked the white boys, and I know a few other black women who were the same way. I don't get why it is stated that white men are the last resort when no black men are available. Why can't a black woman be attracted to white men and black men and not make the comparison between black and white?
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its like a double edged sword bw stays single because she's "supposed to wait for her IBM," then she's stupid and probably has an attitude and thats why she can't get a bm (cause we all know its always the bw's fault for everything) or if she marries a non-bm, especially a wm, then "she's trying to make bm jealous/ get revenge," or she's just emotionally confused and desperate, so she "had to take a wm." when are bw going to be allowed to be happy and when are people going to stop harassing us no matter what we do?
Great point, it always seems for black women we deal with balancing acts and even then it always seems lose/lose.
I dont have any angst over sistas that want to sleep, date or marry white....git the f**k on, if you feel he will make you happy!
But it's not limited to how you were raised. Some people see themselves as better than their environment and become aspirational - seeking everything that goes along with their idealized vision. Others may see themselves as their environment - and seek a mate with those traits that allow them to flourish while staying in the same place. But still others may be capable of flourishing in any environment - these are they who get the pick of the crop. Then it becomes a choice of the person who they; may get along with better than others, have developed a trusting relationship, or just plain think are hot.
I do think this is very true, there are many factors, but this woman in this article has made it seem her husband was a choice out of desperation, not attraction.
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For some reason, jeez...I don't know why...I recently joined an online dating site and had the pleasure of reading posts from white males who view black women negatively...I can't even repeat the dehumanizing dialogue. At no time after hundreds of these posts, does anyone come to black women's rescue. On the flip side, were pandering, desperate black women (young girls) who would say anything to get WM attention and prove they were unlike any of those crude stereotypes. After enough of the horror, I deactivated my account. From my perspective WM do not approach black women. They approach Asian women but not black women. I find a lot of white men may be attracted to us, but they hold the same stereotypical views as black men. They usually want a "strong" sista to initiate the relationship and do everything for them.
I will admit yes it does seem that white men are capable of approaching all other races of women, but black, as Yan calls it the "Anything But Black" syndrome. I don't think the majority of white men in America are willing or are attracted to black women enough to actually approach them, I do however think that the numbers are in our favor, even if the minority of white men are willing and able to date black women, the minority still is a pretty great number in comparison to black women interested or open to dating white men. We are only 12% of the population, men and women combined, so that if only half of the black women in America are open and willing to dating white men, there are still options for us, and we aren't even looking at hispanic or asian men in this equation. There is hope for those who are interested in expanding dating options and a dating message board, or the internet in general isn't a welcome place for IR, not to mention do you really want any man of any race who is open to berating and eliminating a whole entire race from his dating options because of perceived stereotypes?
remember, alot of wm of today are the descendants of the wm of yesterday and old habits can die hard. if a wm has racist tendencies, which a good numberdo, then he's not going to want a bw period. so don't be too upset about the negative comments on the internet, its nothing personal, they're probably just racist and you don't want someone like that anyway. focus on the nice wm who are worth your time. sometimes i do wonder, if these wm or men in general are so turned off by bw, why go out of the way to obsess over how much they don't like us...? Like whenever someone posts a video about bw, a racist will come on and say something like "look at these monkey bitches..." or something, why search for videos/topics on bw if you hate them so much? i've never understood that. unless the video directly impacts you, why search for it? it be different if someone made a video saying bw are beautiful and other women are ugly, then sure i could understand you searching for stuff like that because they're speaking negatively about other people. but the pos. stuff, why obsess over it, if it has nothing to do with you and you supposedly don't like it? that's so weird to me...
Since the percentage of AA women who marry White men is so low (only around 5%), is this really a big issue? I mean isn't it more important to talk about the few who get into such relationships, than getting into the whys and why nots. For the majority of AA women, ir marriages are just not an issue at all.
It's tine to stop caring about what BM think about who bw choose to be with. I certainly don't see them asking bw what they think. It does seem to be an obsession like it's almost as though bw are portrayed as "getting back" at BM by being with wm. Can't you just like someone without an agenda? People should be able to be together without the questions.
Anon Feb 14th, 2009 7:21 pm sd:
"How come we never see articles with white men discussing their preference for dating black women? It seems whenever there is a discussion of WM/BW relationships, the idea that's shoved down our throats, is that black women are reluctant to date white men, resulting in fewer of these relationships.
For some reason, jeez...I don't know why...I recently joined an online dating site and had the pleasure of reading posts from white males who view black women negatively...I can't even repeat the dehumanizing dialogue. At no time after hundreds of these posts, does anyone come to black women's rescue. On the flip side, were pandering, desperate black women (young girls) who would say anything to get WM attention and prove they were unlike any of those crude stereotypes. After enough of the horror, I deactivated my account.
From my perspective WM do not approach black women. They approach Asian women but not black women. I find a lot of white men may be attracted to us, but they hold the same stereotypical views as black men. They usually want a "strong" sista to initiate the relationship and do everything for them.
In every single WM/BW relationship I've personally witnessed, it's the black woman who initiated the relationship and does everything. WM feel they can be passive when it comes to black women, but suppose the BW is introverted and shy? Then what?"
I so totally understand where you are coming from. I also do wonder @ times. Everything you said, I have thought about. Glad I aint the only one who sees that side...
Only in America would these attitudes prevail. IR relatiohsips can not grow in an environment where one sees themselves as the oppressed and the other as the oppressor. the reason BM/WW pairings are more is because they both consider themselves the victims of the white man. None is historically directly oppressing tee other. their background is well set for those relationships. For BW/WM that is definitely not the case. So expect the hurdles to remain. These relationships will always be the minority in America. BW had beter familiarize theselves with foreign lands.
Anon Feb 14th, 2009 7:21 pm sd:
"How come we never see articles with white men discussing their preference for dating black women? It seems whenever there is a discussion of WM/BW relationships, the idea that's shoved down our throats, is that black women are reluctant to date white men, resulting in fewer of these relationships.
For some reason, jeez...I don't know why...I recently joined an online dating site and had the pleasure of reading posts from white males who view black women negatively...I can't even repeat the dehumanizing dialogue. At no time after hundreds of these posts, does anyone come to black women's rescue. On the flip side, were pandering, desperate black women (young girls) who would say anything to get WM attention and prove they were unlike any of those crude stereotypes. After enough of the horror, I deactivated my account.
From my perspective WM do not approach black women. They approach Asian women but not black women. I find a lot of white men may be attracted to us, but they hold the same stereotypical views as black men. They usually want a "strong" sista to initiate the relationship and do everything for them.
In every single WM/BW relationship I've personally witnessed, it's the black woman who initiated the relationship and does everything. WM feel they can be passive when it comes to black women, but suppose the BW is introverted and shy? Then what?"
Soila and Anon who posted above,
I agree with the thoughts you've posted above. It is an OUTRAGE that BW CONTINUE to be SINGLED OUT FOR DISCRIMINATORY ANTI-BW ATTITUDES/TREATMENT (FROM MOST WM/NON-BM) THAT TRASHES OUR DIGNITY, HUMANITY, AND FEMININITY. A possible solution is to look for EUROPEAN, CANADIAN, OR YOUNGER AMERICAN WM/NON-BM (under 34) who have DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PURSUE SERIOUS DATING AND/OR MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIPS WITH BW. Tina Turner's 23 year IRR, AGE GAP RELATIONSHIP TO HER YOUNGER GERMAN HUSBAND ARE AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP OPTION THAT IS AVAILABLE TO BW DESPITE THE NEGATIVE RACIST ANTI-BW ATTITUDES THAT STILL EXIST IN AMERICA.
Maybe you should write a follow up type of article for Salon, Siditty.
I think you are a very intelligent woman and have many things to say. Also, you are married to a White man, so it would be like getting the info from the horses mouth. LOL.
I read this article when it was posted and liked it.
I think uglyblackjohn touched on what I have to say, some, already.
That was her journey to an IR and I'm not sure it's fair to knock it.
I don't think it's a far-fetched thought that her experience is the rule for bw over the age of, say, 25 or so. Younger women are finding themselves in more diverse situations where IRs are a real option, but that's not the case for the older crowd.
I can understand the frustration that some wm may feel in always being portrayed as the second option but I don't think that's the way it's intended. I think for many bw it is an honest "I never really thought it was a viable option, and then later realized I was wrong..." You see the err of your ways and you do better, you can't ask for more than that.
As for why it's always about black men first...
Grow up a bw and then ask that question.
There's great pressure to find a "good black man..." and settle down with him but what do you do when you can't find him or any of his friends? A lot of black women aren't ever shown that the "good black man" isn't her only option, that she ahs so many options and it's not about ranking said options, it's just about knowing they're there.
Classical One,
You are quite correct. There's way too much focus on black men when it's not even about them (bw/wm couples).
"Tina Turner's 23 year IRR, AGE GAP RELATIONSHIP TO HER YOUNGER GERMAN HUSBAND ARE AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE"
What! 23 yr age gap. WOW. Germans are the thing. They hit their racism bottom and are probably the least generally racist Europeans. They may have invented nazism but it looks like the rest of the white world is catching on pretty late.
Same for Scandanvians. They have no 'higher'race to aspire to, so they are the most laid back and down to earth white people. Isn't it ironic, the most white people tend to be the least racist. Its all these wannabes that put too much effort into it.
Every naturally blonde or red head person I have met has been extremely down to earth.
Grata,
I meant Tina Turner's 23 year long relationship with her younger (17 year younger) German husband.
That's so true. Most wm prefer ww but they also prefer lw and aw. Anything except bw and multiracial bw. It's sad in this day and age that bw/wm relationships are the most stigmatized and taboo of all.
La Reyna
My first relationship was with a multiracial black man. His interest was only with white women but he "decided" to date a black girl (i.e. me ) Infact he didn't want a woman any darker than me. There were times when he tried to demean me simply because I wasn't white. He had a hell of alot of issues within himself. To me he is one man and he did not turn me off of black men. On that note quite a few men (yes I said men) make excuses when it comes to dating a women. I have heard black men say that I dated a sista but she was too mouthy. She had too much attitude. She didn't know her place...etc. etc. Whatever. Excuses , excuses, excuses just admit it you do not like black women and leave us alone. Let us be happy with the men we choose to let in our lives.
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