Angry and Black Since 1976; Somebody's Momma Since 2010
2009-05-15
Feeling Guilty I Want To See Precious
I want to see this even though I saw some scary things like Tyler Perry, Oprah, Mo'Nique, and Mariah Carey. The stereotypes seem to abound, but I want to see it anyway. It is based on the book Push by Sapphire.
The movie did really well at Sundance. Monique and the other girl got the top prize. They said Mariah did very good and you could barely recognize her.
Tyler (thank god) and Oprah had nothing to do with the making of the film, they just bought the rights to it.
I plan on seeing it when it comes out.
Also, this is the same director that did Monsters Ball.
i saw the trailer a couple of days ago and i'm so excited for the movie.
i read the book a few months back after hearing about how well it did at sundance and seeing some good reviews and it was absolutely amazing; like a modernized version of "the color purple".
i think it could be interesting. some people are going to say it perpetuates negative stereotypes about bw and i can understand where they're coming from. but at the same time it could really be a good movie if they dive deep into the emotional aspect and shed some light on what its like for some of these young girls coming from abusive households and never feelings pretty enough and feeling worthless. maybe it will touch on how negativity/abuse can negatively impact your lifestyle.it would be a good ending if in the end she gets some help and loses weight and goes back to school and reaches her potential, that would be good.
Looks like a good movie but not something I would watch. I love only nice gentle romantic movies. The purpose of watching a movie is to escape. What's the difference between this movie and the BW's reality? I know there are middle class BW etc. But I get my fair share of exposure to the lower and underclass BW. Why spend my down time watching that ? I encounter these types of characters in my adventures here in L.A.
This type of movie is watched mostly by people that have the luxury of distance.
@ Anon 7:19 - Why does she have to lose weight too? Is "Fatism" as bad as racism? I think they had to have her have the grand slam of unfortunate (Fat, Black, Poor and Ugly). But no amount of work is going to make her look like the woman playing the teacher.
But yeah... I never thought I'd WANT to sit through 100 minutes of Mo'Nique.
Mo'Nique actually acted like she could.....act. I was a bit taken aback. She did a good job, at least from the previews. Gabourey Sidibeis going to break through with this role, but she will have a hard time in Hollywood with other roles though. I saw her audition tape, and it was really awesome. I have already ordered my copy of "Push", the book the movie is based upon, so I can be up to date when it comes out in November.
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it would be a good ending if in the end she gets some help and loses weight and goes back to school and reaches her potential, that would be good.I don't know the ending, but I want realism and from what I understand from the short stories and poetry I have read from Sapphire, happy isn't always the ending.
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I think they had to have her have the grand slam of unfortunate (Fat, Black, Poor and Ugly).I think that is exactly what they were going for, fat, black, dark, poor, and ugly.
I also agree with Ugly Black John, why does she have to lose weight to attribute to a good ending? Why is not educating herself and reaching her goals good enough?
I read the book it's based on, Push back when it first came out in the late 90's. An excerpt was published in the New Yorker as a short story. I was working in my school library at the time and one of the staff there insisted that I read it since I am Black and into writing. I was annoyed. Then in college, one of my writing professors gave me a copy of the book. I found it grim, gritty, and hard to read because of all the suffering Precious goes through. Also, I was annoyed that all these White women kept trying to make me read the book just because I am a Black writer. So maybe that is why I did not enjoy it that much.
But now in retrospect, about 10 years after reading Push, I think it was a good story that needed to be told. I remember the humanity of Precious, and how hard she tried to find someone to love her. You really only see characters like her in passing, maybe as victims on Law & Order SVU, but you never really see stories that allow you to put yourself in their shoes. I was very impressed with the trailer. It looks like Mariah and Mo'Nique have really put their hearts into their performances. It looks like it should be a difficult movie to watch, but then again so are City of God and Requiem for a Dream. Movies you may only be able to watch once if you are sensitive. If you are looking for escapist entertainment, this ain't it.
And since I have read the book, I can tell you (without giving anything away) that losing weight is the least of her problems.
City of God was genius, Seu George became a crush for a hot minute (yes I realize that is old outdated slang). and Requiem for a Dream had an awesome soundtrack. That movie was awesome as well. I never thought I would consider Marlon Wayans a great actor. Now I realize he just does a bunch of crappy roles. Maybe that is Mo'Nique's problem. I am just happy to see a movie where it appears that it digs deeper than just about life in the ghetto being tough.
Yeah, I want to see this movie too! Not to be negative but I read somewhere else that all the characters who help her (nurse, teacher, social worker) are light skinned while the people who abuse her are dark. I never noticed until I read that, then when I watched the trailer again it's true. I'll still be seeing it though
I didn't notice that, but yeah it has that all things bad are dark while all things good are light vibe that has continued for years causing the light vs. dark debate.
"@ Anon 7:19 - Why does she have to lose weight too?"
Well the reason I said that was because judging by the trailer I can tell she's obviously unhappy with her life and her weight is a side effect of that. There's nothing wrong with losing weight and being healthy. Why couldn't she get back in school and start living a healthier/happier lifestyle that would be a good ending, what's wrong with that?
I think the weight is a significant part of the movie. Her carrying the extra weight on the outside symbolizes the excess weight she's carrying on the inside, i.e the emotional weight she is carrying from the abuse/ unstable lifestyle. That's why her reaching her potential, getting educated I think would go hand in hand with her getting healthy and becoming fit. She doesn't have to look like a model, but in order to have a healthy lifestyle the emotional and physical weight would need to be lifted. that's just my take on it.
I immediately picked up on the light skin thing. I'm just glad they didn't do the typical white female savior. Usually when they have these type of movies, there's always one lone white person who comes in to save the poor black kid. But atleast the people are actually black this time.
"I didn't notice that, but yeah it has that all things bad are dark while all things good are light vibe that has continued for years causing the light vs. dark debate."
The first AA female friend I made around my age was light skinned and she was a classmate. I remember thinking, WOW. What a difference. All the other AA females I had met in my classes had without exception attitude issues with the exception of one who was the opposite, and she was obese, which says something. I then made the summation that darker women have attiude though I have taken on a much darker tone now being in California.
After living as a darker skinned woman in America, I know why these women are that way. Society really does treat darker skinned women unkindly. Though huge strides have been made on the race relations front, the dark skinned woman's challenges are not likely to go away. and the biggest offender this time is the Black man.
Its truly a terrible state of affairs. So even if the film may show the darker ones as evil and the lighter one better, society has shapped the Black woman that way.
The kinder dark skinned woman you will find will most likely be the obese one who fits the mammy role. The challenge for Black women is to not let society turn them into bitter women. Angry yes, bitter no.
In terms of expecting a happy ending, don't expect one. Weight loss or not, this girl has far more pressing issues than what she is eating. This movie is not going to be a feel good movie if it is anything like the book from what I understand.
I noticed the light-skinned saviors theme immediately and I am very displeased by it. Also, in this society the prevailing mindset is that it is ok to treat people like dirt if they are fat. I think it would be more meaningful to show the main character learning about love and self-acceptance from someone who LOOKED LIKE HER and possessed those qualities and had a good life.
So I disagree about the character needing to lose weight in order to have a happy ending and about the alleged psychopathology of being obese. It's just as likely that her being obese is a function of where she lives and what food she has access to. Is she supposed to do laps around the projects to get fit? How is she going to be able to afford a healthy diet on food stamps? Fruits and vegetables and quality cuts of meat cost a lot more than ho hos and neck bones. And where is she supposed to get the time and mental energy needed to devote to weight loss when she is dealing with all of her traumatic every day life experiences, an infant, and trying to not just better her circumstances, but survive? The movie would have turned into another superhero movie:"Birth of a Black Superwoman".
I will probably go see the movie. I select films based on the quality of the writing, acting, and direction rather than just value as escapist fantasy. Real life is not a fairy tale. I think it's good to show real stories. Now something like Gossip Girl is not anything I can get into. Why should I care about a bunch of overly privileged little snobs and their adventures in high school backstabbing?
"Why should I care about a bunch of overly privileged little snobs and their adventures in high school backstabbing?"
Now that is on the opposite extreme of the spectrum.
"I think it would be more meaningful to show the main character learning about love and self-acceptance from someone who LOOKED LIKE HER and possessed those qualities and had a good life."
True, the triumph here would be if she learned to love her self. If she does so then everything else would fall in place. She would decide whether it was good for her to lose weight and for the right reasons.
True, the triumph here would be if she learned to love her self. If she does so then everything else would fall in place. She would decide whether it was good for her to lose weight and for the right reasons.
I agree, think they could have cast a darker-complected bw in the role. But I still think for the most part over-eating to the point of being unhealthy is an emotional problem. There is a difference between being a little plump and being unhealthy. But, the light-skin savior thing was a bit over the top. It's easy to tell someone how great life can be when you're constantly praised on a daily basis/come from a privileged place. But someone coming from a simliar background, with similar struggles would really serve as a reminder of what you can be.
"But someone coming from a simliar background, with similar struggles would really serve as a reminder of what you can be."
Absolutely. That is how 12 step programs work and have alot more success than other forms of therapy. The person that is ahead on their journey in recovery helps the new entrants. Its more inspiring that way. I think this film maybe doomed by the lighter Vs dark dynamic. Its a shame they didn't have seen that. That is even more reason for me not to watch it.
I am sickened by the whole Light Vs Dark thing in America though I can't help get caught in it. Its truyly sick.
The other day on Youtube I came across this light skinned young guy who said that he tried to hit on some light skinned girl and she told him that she doesn't date anyone lighter than her, WTF? There are issues on both sides. Lighter skinned people are between a rock and a hard place. They are both liked and loathed by Blacks and can never fit among whites.
The light ones saving the dark one remind me of white people or non black minorities who try to talk down racism claiming that its not really that bad. How the hell would they know?
It looks like an interesting movie. I wonder if it will open here in the suburbs of Atlanta? I'd probably have to drive to Decatur or Midtown Atlanta. They didn't even show Milk here until Sean Penn won the Oscar and even then it was limited picture release.
THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE-- NOBODY LOVES ME, YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU. AW no! How many 15 yr. olds with broken homes have babies so someone wil love them? AWFUL,AWFUL,AWFUL MESSAGE!!!!!!!!! -Kay What do you think Siddity?
I get where you're coming from, but it's not only an awful message; it's a true fact for some young mothers. And it's not just Black chicks in the hood; check ya barrio's and trailer parks.
To a young woman with no options, having a baby at 15 is NOT the worst thing to happen to her. And considering how motherhood is sometimes fetishized, you can see how a baby can be a bright spot in an otherwise bleak future.
I think it makes the movie/book that much more real.
"I select films based on the quality of the writing, acting, and direction rather than just value as escapist fantasy."
I agree, Yan. Sometimes examining the dark side of life and humanity's capacity for both cruelty and kindness is necessary and needs to be explored through an artistic and creative lens. There's nothing wrong with escapist fare, but I prefer films that provoke me to think and sometimes even to act. I have no "distance" from stories like this; I work with clients like Precious everyday, and the way this culture marginalizes and diminishes young African American women, especially their sexual exploitation, infuriates me, and is a story that needs more confrontational exposure (the limited distribution of the documentary "Very Young Girls" is a good example of how the exploitation and commodification of young women of color gets far less traction in both the public discourse and from law enforcement and social services than the far smaller numbers of white women and girls who are "trafficked".)
All the issues faced by Precious in the novel and I assume the film, from sexual and physical abuse, to her HIV-positive status, to the cognitive impairments of her baby, to her illiteracy and educational deficits, to her weight, are all stories that need to be told, and accorded attention and respect in the cultural narrative. On Racialicious we discussed at length the problematic stereotypes the film had the potential to advance, stereotypes we are all too familiar with, about urban poverty, brutal black men, ineffectual and abusive black mothers, and especially, black women as perpetual victims. I thought the novel trafficked in all those stereotypes as well, but overcame them with brutal honesty, a realistic and pragmatic ending, and images of blacks that counterbalanced the negative portrayals. The risk in the film is because it is a visual medium, it will reinforce contrasts and stereotypes in a way a novel can't. But having not yet seen the complete film yet, I'd like to make my own decision about the effectiveness of the film and its potential dangers based on an actual viewing of it, within the dramatic context of narrative events and character arcs.
"THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE-- NOBODY LOVES ME, YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU. AW no! How many 15 yr. olds with broken homes have babies so someone wil love them?"
I so agree with you here. However, the scene is taken out of context. Precious has already had one baby and is pregnant with her second, but neither pregnancy was by choice. She is most definitely looking for love and acceptance, but she did not choose to have babies in order to gain that. She was abused and raped by her father and her degree of choice in bearing the results of that abuse is an open question. The problem is, I wonder how many young women viewing the film have the discernment to make that distinction?
I am sickened by the whole Light Vs Dark thing in America though I can't help get caught in it. Its truyly sick.
The other day on Youtube I came across this light skinned young guy who said that he tried to hit on some light skinned girl and she told him that she doesn't date anyone lighter than her, WTF? There are issues on both sides. Lighter skinned people are between a rock and a hard place. They are both liked and loathed by Blacks and can never fit among whites.----------------- You got a point right here. There are stereotypes of light skin women and men that are discussed but mostly light skin women. What that light skin man said in his youtube video is true to an extent. I have heard the "secret vendetta" between light skin black people. Light skin black people I talk to say they wouldn't date someone that is light skin because they have pompous attitudes. Now the discrimination between light skin men is not always discussed. I have males friends that are light skin and they have heard things like "You are too light" (underlining meaning is you are too feminine). I've heard more Black females choose dark skin black men over light skin black men for that same reason. They are too feminine or they are pretty boys with an attitude. Colorism seems to be exploited amongst black women than men. Dark skin black men may feel that light skin men are more accepted amongst white people because they feel comfortable around them and they appear "less threatening". So I think that might come up whenever dark skin men and light skin men argue. We all know the issues between dark skin and light skin women so there is no need to touch on that lol. However I agree with many that light skin and dark skin stereotype was obvious in this film. As far as my personally belief on colorism, I think it is a flaw way of determining feminism and masculinity by skin color. Light skin men are viewed as feminine and dark skin women are viewed as masculine. How flawed is that? lol
Yan said:
Also, in this society the prevailing mindset is that it is ok to treat people like dirt if they are fat.----------------------- You are absolutely correct. Someone asked me a question about Mo'Nique's stand up. She said why is it okay for Mo'Nique to make fun of skinny women and put them down than it is to put down fat people. My first thought was are you kidding me? Comedians for as long as I can remember has always made fun of big people. Hell Eddie Murphy made a killing off of making fun of big people. I won't forgive him for making fun of big black women with the most nastiest stereotype. Now you got big dark skin black women with a name "Resputia" now whenever they are made fun of. She also feels that Mo'Nique is making fun of skinny women to make big girls feel better about themselves. I told her how many times have skinny women made fun of big girls to make themselves feel good because their physique is socially accepted in our western society? ALOT OF TIMES! In America, we discriminate big people. There was some governor or senator that was trying to make a law that discriminated against big people. Airlines want to charge big people for two seats. How many times have we seen shows on big people losing weight as oppose to extremely thin people gaining weight? How many times have we made those "Yo mama so fat jokes" as oppose to "yo mama so skinny jokes"? I mean the list goes on and we never sit and think that these jokes can actually hurt someone's feelings. Then whenever there is a program on people who are fat, we over simplify their feelings and say it's all their fault and they should just stop eating. It's not that easy. Every time when you see an anorexic person do we give those same feelings to big people who have emotional issues? Although we make fun of extremely thin people, socially people are more empathetic than they are on big people. Just because we might have shows towards big people with the sad music in the back to have the audience feel sorry for them does not stop people for making fat jokes and discriminating against them.
Is it because another light skinned person doesn't value their lightness like a Darker skinned person supposedly would? True sickness.LOL yeah it does come off like that. It comes off as "Let's benefit off of the dark skin people's self-hate or low self-esteem, because they are not as grand as light skin people" I had a talk with my Aunt who is light skin black woman. She tells me that she loves dark skin and wished she was. She told me that her boyfriend is dark skin but thinks she is "mixed" because of her light skin and denounces the fact that she is black. She asked why would he think that? He tends to believe that light skin is beautiful and that was the reason why he procreated with a white woman prior to being with her so his children can be light. I asked myself if she so loves dark skin, than why is she in love with someone that does not love his dark skin? It kind of put me off for a second because it made me feel like she liked him because he made her feel superior. However, I could be wrong but I wouldn't want to be with someone that hates themselves.
"THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE-- NOBODY LOVES ME, YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU."
I completely agree with you. When I saw this part in the trailer, I was thinking the same thing-- some other girl who feels the same way might think having a baby will solve her problems. I've seen this before, and I just want to tell the girl that it won't solve her problems at all at such a young age.
"Light skin men are viewed as feminine and dark skin women are viewed as masculine. How flawed is that? lol"
hmm, I've never given the feminine light skinned male issue much thought, but I think I can recall people playing on that stereotype. Interesting connection you made. It's unfortunate that many people believe these stereotypes instead of opening their eyes to reality--everyone is different.
I know what is real. And I know what is fake. People do thngs for real reasons. You said: To a young woman with no options, having a baby at 15 is NOT the worst thing to happen to her. And considering how motherhood is sometimes fetishized, you can see how a baby can be a bright spot in an otherwise bleak future.
Having a baby at 15 is not a bright spot! It may not be the worst thing to happn to her, but it may be the worst thing to happen to that kid. You can not expect to have a healthy child parent relationship wth that much expected of a child. Having a chid requires much more work and selflessness, than can ever be reciprocated. EVER! A baby under certain circumstances no mateer how much of a blessing is going to be more of a curse if you are that unprepared. Unprepared is really an understaement. But you know what I mean. Sid, have you ever heard of young Black women having kids as a sign of maturity? I heard about a story on NPR about a community of women who uphold this ideal. -Kay
"Let's benefit off of the dark skin people's self-hate or low self-esteem, because they are not as grand as light skin people"
Dani,
I haven't laughted out so loud at something someone wrote on a blog in a long time. Sometimes the truthis painfully funny, LOL!
As for your aunt, yeah the story is dodgy. She likes someone that hates their dark skin. Hmmm, you do have to wonder indeed. However many women do like men who worship them, the skin color pulls that sort of man to her and he adores her. So she gains on that front. Problem comes when these women start falsely believing in their Superiority, things can get bad pretty quickly. No self respecting person wants to be around someone that makes them feel inferior.
"Very Young Girls" is a good example of how the exploitation and commodification of young women of color gets far less traction in both the public discourse and from law enforcement and social services than the far smaller numbers of white women and girls who are "trafficked". ___________________________________ i agree, i'm getting so sick of the whole "protect the white woman's purity," complex movie. If i see one more lifetime movie where the world goes on lock down because of one white woman, i'm going to flip a sh*t. I couldn't believe they made a movie about trafficking and how one white man goes on a rampage and does all this just to get to one white woman, meanwhile you've got hundreds of thousands of black women in african being systematically and brutually raped and you barely get coverage, let alone a movie. Then ofcourse you've also got exploitation going on in american against young bw, but no one cares (they brought it on themselves) "black women don't get raped." No woman deserves ot be mistreated, but i'm getting tired of the bias here, apparently its only sexual exploitation when its mistreatment of a white woman.
37 comments:
The movie did really well at Sundance. Monique and the other girl got the top prize. They said Mariah did very good and you could barely recognize her.
Tyler (thank god) and Oprah had nothing to do with the making of the film, they just bought the rights to it.
I plan on seeing it when it comes out.
Also, this is the same director that did Monsters Ball.
i saw the trailer a couple of days ago and i'm so excited for the movie.
i read the book a few months back after hearing about how well it did at sundance and seeing some good reviews and it was absolutely amazing; like a modernized version of "the color purple".
that movie looks interesting and innovative
i think it could be interesting. some people are going to say it perpetuates negative stereotypes about bw and i can understand where they're coming from. but at the same time it could really be a good movie if they dive deep into the emotional aspect and shed some light on what its like for some of these young girls coming from abusive households and never feelings pretty enough and feeling worthless. maybe it will touch on how negativity/abuse can negatively impact your lifestyle.it would be a good ending if in the end she gets some help and loses weight and goes back to school and reaches her potential, that would be good.
Looks like a good movie but not something I would watch.
I love only nice gentle romantic movies. The purpose of watching a movie is to escape.
What's the difference between this movie and the BW's reality? I know there are middle class BW etc. But I get my fair share of exposure to the lower and underclass BW. Why spend my down time watching that ?
I encounter these types of characters in my adventures here in L.A.
This type of movie is watched mostly by people that have the luxury of distance.
@ Anon 7:19 - Why does she have to lose weight too?
Is "Fatism" as bad as racism?
I think they had to have her have the grand slam of unfortunate (Fat, Black, Poor and Ugly).
But no amount of work is going to make her look like the woman playing the teacher.
But yeah... I never thought I'd WANT to sit through 100 minutes of Mo'Nique.
Mo'Nique actually acted like she could.....act. I was a bit taken aback. She did a good job, at least from the previews. Gabourey Sidibeis going to break through with this role, but she will have a hard time in Hollywood with other roles though. I saw her audition tape, and it was really awesome. I have already ordered my copy of "Push", the book the movie is based upon, so I can be up to date when it comes out in November.
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it would be a good ending if in the end she gets some help and loses weight and goes back to school and reaches her potential, that would be good.I don't know the ending, but I want realism and from what I understand from the short stories and poetry I have read from Sapphire, happy isn't always the ending.
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I think they had to have her have the grand slam of unfortunate (Fat, Black, Poor and Ugly).I think that is exactly what they were going for, fat, black, dark, poor, and ugly.
I also agree with Ugly Black John, why does she have to lose weight to attribute to a good ending? Why is not educating herself and reaching her goals good enough?
She does clean up well though.
I read the book it's based on, Push back when it first came out in the late 90's. An excerpt was published in the New Yorker as a short story. I was working in my school library at the time and one of the staff there insisted that I read it since I am Black and into writing. I was annoyed. Then in college, one of my writing professors gave me a copy of the book. I found it grim, gritty, and hard to read because of all the suffering Precious goes through. Also, I was annoyed that all these White women kept trying to make me read the book just because I am a Black writer. So maybe that is why I did not enjoy it that much.
But now in retrospect, about 10 years after reading Push, I think it was a good story that needed to be told. I remember the humanity of Precious, and how hard she tried to find someone to love her. You really only see characters like her in passing, maybe as victims on Law & Order SVU, but you never really see stories that allow you to put yourself in their shoes. I was very impressed with the trailer. It looks like Mariah and Mo'Nique have really put their hearts into their performances. It looks like it should be a difficult movie to watch, but then again so are City of God and Requiem for a Dream. Movies you may only be able to watch once if you are sensitive. If you are looking for escapist entertainment, this ain't it.
And since I have read the book, I can tell you (without giving anything away) that losing weight is the least of her problems.
City of God was genius, Seu George became a crush for a hot minute (yes I realize that is old outdated slang). and Requiem for a Dream had an awesome soundtrack. That movie was awesome as well. I never thought I would consider Marlon Wayans a great actor. Now I realize he just does a bunch of crappy roles. Maybe that is Mo'Nique's problem. I am just happy to see a movie where it appears that it digs deeper than just about life in the ghetto being tough.
Yeah, I want to see this movie too! Not to be negative but I read somewhere else that all the characters who help her (nurse, teacher, social worker) are light skinned while the people who abuse her are dark. I never noticed until I read that, then when I watched the trailer again it's true. I'll still be seeing it though
I didn't notice that, but yeah it has that all things bad are dark while all things good are light vibe that has continued for years causing the light vs. dark debate.
"@ Anon 7:19 - Why does she have to lose weight too?"
Well the reason I said that was because judging by the trailer I can tell she's obviously unhappy with her life and her weight is a side effect of that. There's nothing wrong with losing weight and being healthy. Why couldn't she get back in school and start living a healthier/happier lifestyle that would be a good ending, what's wrong with that?
I think the weight is a significant part of the movie. Her carrying the extra weight on the outside symbolizes the excess weight she's carrying on the inside, i.e the emotional weight she is carrying from the abuse/ unstable lifestyle. That's why her reaching her potential, getting educated I think would go hand in hand with her getting healthy and becoming fit. She doesn't have to look like a model, but in order to have a healthy lifestyle the emotional and physical weight would need to be lifted. that's just my take on it.
I immediately picked up on the light skin thing. I'm just glad they didn't do the typical white female savior. Usually when they have these type of movies, there's always one lone white person who comes in to save the poor black kid. But atleast the people are actually black this time.
this a cute picture:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/iY1W015MCuf/Push+2009+Sundance+Premiere/4qhE4P0rRfv/Gabourey+Sidibe
I love the book Push. I read it in high school. I look forward to seeing this movie.
"I didn't notice that, but yeah it has that all things bad are dark while all things good are light vibe that has continued for years causing the light vs. dark debate."
The first AA female friend I made around my age was light skinned and she was a classmate. I remember thinking, WOW. What a difference. All the other AA females I had met in my classes had without exception attitude issues with the exception of one who was the opposite, and she was obese, which says something.
I then made the summation that darker women have attiude though I have taken on a much darker tone now being in California.
After living as a darker skinned woman in America, I know why these women are that way. Society really does treat darker skinned women unkindly. Though huge strides have been made on the race relations front, the dark skinned woman's challenges are not likely to go away. and the biggest offender this time is the Black man.
Its truly a terrible state of affairs. So even if the film may show the darker ones as evil and the lighter one better, society has shapped the Black woman that way.
The kinder dark skinned woman you will find will most likely be the obese one who fits the mammy role.
The challenge for Black women is to not let society turn them into bitter women. Angry yes, bitter no.
In terms of expecting a happy ending, don't expect one. Weight loss or not, this girl has far more pressing issues than what she is eating. This movie is not going to be a feel good movie if it is anything like the book from what I understand.
I noticed the light-skinned saviors theme immediately and I am very displeased by it. Also, in this society the prevailing mindset is that it is ok to treat people like dirt if they are fat. I think it would be more meaningful to show the main character learning about love and self-acceptance from someone who LOOKED LIKE HER and possessed those qualities and had a good life.
So I disagree about the character needing to lose weight in order to have a happy ending and about the alleged psychopathology of being obese. It's just as likely that her being obese is a function of where she lives and what food she has access to. Is she supposed to do laps around the projects to get fit? How is she going to be able to afford a healthy diet on food stamps? Fruits and vegetables and quality cuts of meat cost a lot more than ho hos and neck bones. And where is she supposed to get the time and mental energy needed to devote to weight loss when she is dealing with all of her traumatic every day life experiences, an infant, and trying to not just better her circumstances, but survive? The movie would have turned into another superhero movie:"Birth of a Black Superwoman".
I will probably go see the movie. I select films based on the quality of the writing, acting, and direction rather than just value as escapist fantasy. Real life is not a fairy tale. I think it's good to show real stories. Now something like Gossip Girl is not anything I can get into. Why should I care about a bunch of overly privileged little snobs and their adventures in high school backstabbing?
"Why should I care about a bunch of overly privileged little snobs and their adventures in high school backstabbing?"
Now that is on the opposite extreme of the spectrum.
"I think it would be more meaningful to show the main character learning about love and self-acceptance from someone who LOOKED LIKE HER and possessed those qualities and had a good life."
True, the triumph here would be if she learned to love her self. If she does so then everything else would fall in place. She would decide whether it was good for her to lose weight and for the right reasons.
True, the triumph here would be if she learned to love her self. If she does so then everything else would fall in place. She would decide whether it was good for her to lose weight and for the right reasons.
I agree, think they could have cast a darker-complected bw in the role. But I still think for the most part over-eating to the point of being unhealthy is an emotional problem. There is a difference between being a little plump and being unhealthy. But, the light-skin savior thing was a bit over the top. It's easy to tell someone how great life can be when you're constantly praised on a daily basis/come from a privileged place. But someone coming from a simliar background, with similar struggles would really serve as a reminder of what you can be.
"But someone coming from a simliar background, with similar struggles would really serve as a reminder of what you can be."
Absolutely. That is how 12 step programs work and have alot more success than other forms of therapy. The person that is ahead on their journey in recovery helps the new entrants. Its more inspiring that way.
I think this film maybe doomed by the lighter Vs dark dynamic. Its a shame they didn't have seen that. That is even more reason for me not to watch it.
I am sickened by the whole Light Vs Dark thing in America though I can't help get caught in it. Its truyly sick.
The other day on Youtube I came across this light skinned young guy who said that he tried to hit on some light skinned girl and she told him that she doesn't date anyone lighter than her, WTF? There are issues on both sides. Lighter skinned people are between a rock and a hard place. They are both liked and loathed by Blacks and can never fit among whites.
The light ones saving the dark one remind me of white people or non black minorities who try to talk down racism claiming that its not really that bad. How the hell would they know?
I read the book a while back while I was in high school it was a popular read at the time.
I hope the movie does the book justice. Now knowing Oprah and Tyler only bought the rights, puts my mind at ease.
It looks like an interesting movie. I wonder if it will open here in the suburbs of Atlanta? I'd probably have to drive to Decatur or Midtown Atlanta. They didn't even show Milk here until Sean Penn won the Oscar and even then it was limited picture release.
THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE--
NOBODY LOVES ME,
YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU.
AW no! How many 15 yr. olds with broken homes have babies so someone wil love them? AWFUL,AWFUL,AWFUL MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!
-Kay
What do you think Siddity?
cbase,
For the record-be careful how you throw around The Color Purple. I'm pretty sure that's blasephemy.
-Kay
@ Anon/Kay:
I get where you're coming from, but it's not only an awful message; it's a true fact for some young mothers. And it's not just Black chicks in the hood; check ya barrio's and trailer parks.
To a young woman with no options, having a baby at 15 is NOT the worst thing to happen to her. And considering how motherhood is sometimes fetishized, you can see how a baby can be a bright spot in an otherwise bleak future.
I think it makes the movie/book that much more real.
"I select films based on the quality of the writing, acting, and direction rather than just value as escapist fantasy."
I agree, Yan. Sometimes examining the dark side of life and humanity's capacity for both cruelty and kindness is necessary and needs to be explored through an artistic and creative lens. There's nothing wrong with escapist fare, but I prefer films that provoke me to think and sometimes even to act. I have no "distance" from stories like this; I work with clients like Precious everyday, and the way this culture marginalizes and diminishes young African American women, especially their sexual exploitation, infuriates me, and is a story that needs more confrontational exposure (the limited distribution of the documentary "Very Young Girls" is a good example of how the exploitation and commodification of young women of color gets far less traction in both the public discourse and from law enforcement and social services than the far smaller numbers of white women and girls who are "trafficked".)
All the issues faced by Precious in the novel and I assume the film, from sexual and physical abuse, to her HIV-positive status, to the cognitive impairments of her baby, to her illiteracy and educational deficits, to her weight, are all stories that need to be told, and accorded attention and respect in the cultural narrative. On Racialicious we discussed at length the problematic stereotypes the film had the potential to advance, stereotypes we are all too familiar with, about urban poverty, brutal black men, ineffectual and abusive black mothers, and especially, black women as perpetual victims. I thought the novel trafficked in all those stereotypes as well, but overcame them with brutal honesty, a realistic and pragmatic ending, and images of blacks that counterbalanced the negative portrayals. The risk in the film is because it is a visual medium, it will reinforce contrasts and stereotypes in a way a novel can't. But having not yet seen the complete film yet, I'd like to make my own decision about the effectiveness of the film and its potential dangers based on an actual viewing of it, within the dramatic context of narrative events and character arcs.
"THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE--
NOBODY LOVES ME,
YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU.
AW no! How many 15 yr. olds with broken homes have babies so someone wil love them?"
I so agree with you here. However, the scene is taken out of context. Precious has already had one baby and is pregnant with her second, but neither pregnancy was by choice. She is most definitely looking for love and acceptance, but she did not choose to have babies in order to gain that. She was abused and raped by her father and her degree of choice in bearing the results of that abuse is an open question. The problem is, I wonder how many young women viewing the film have the discernment to make that distinction?
Grata said:
I am sickened by the whole Light Vs Dark thing in America though I can't help get caught in it. Its truyly sick.
The other day on Youtube I came across this light skinned young guy who said that he tried to hit on some light skinned girl and she told him that she doesn't date anyone lighter than her, WTF? There are issues on both sides. Lighter skinned people are between a rock and a hard place. They are both liked and loathed by Blacks and can never fit among whites.-----------------
You got a point right here. There are stereotypes of light skin women and men that are discussed but mostly light skin women. What that light skin man said in his youtube video is true to an extent. I have heard the "secret vendetta" between light skin black people. Light skin black people I talk to say they wouldn't date someone that is light skin because they have pompous attitudes. Now the discrimination between light skin men is not always discussed. I have males friends that are light skin and they have heard things like "You are too light" (underlining meaning is you are too feminine). I've heard more Black females choose dark skin black men over light skin black men for that same reason. They are too feminine or they are pretty boys with an attitude. Colorism seems to be exploited amongst black women than men. Dark skin black men may feel that light skin men are more accepted amongst white people because they feel comfortable around them and they appear "less threatening". So I think that might come up whenever dark skin men and light skin men argue. We all know the issues between dark skin and light skin women so there is no need to touch on that lol. However I agree with many that light skin and dark skin stereotype was obvious in this film. As far as my personally belief on colorism, I think it is a flaw way of determining feminism and masculinity by skin color. Light skin men are viewed as feminine and dark skin women are viewed as masculine. How flawed is that? lol
Yan said:
Also, in this society the prevailing mindset is that it is ok to treat people like dirt if they are fat.-----------------------
You are absolutely correct. Someone asked me a question about Mo'Nique's stand up. She said why is it okay for Mo'Nique to make fun of skinny women and put them down than it is to put down fat people. My first thought was are you kidding me? Comedians for as long as I can remember has always made fun of big people. Hell Eddie Murphy made a killing off of making fun of big people. I won't forgive him for making fun of big black women with the most nastiest stereotype. Now you got big dark skin black women with a name "Resputia" now whenever they are made fun of. She also feels that Mo'Nique is making fun of skinny women to make big girls feel better about themselves. I told her how many times have skinny women made fun of big girls to make themselves feel good because their physique is socially accepted in our western society? ALOT OF TIMES! In America, we discriminate big people. There was some governor or senator that was trying to make a law that discriminated against big people. Airlines want to charge big people for two seats. How many times have we seen shows on big people losing weight as oppose to extremely thin people gaining weight? How many times have we made those "Yo mama so fat jokes" as oppose to "yo mama so skinny jokes"? I mean the list goes on and we never sit and think that these jokes can actually hurt someone's feelings. Then whenever there is a program on people who are fat, we over simplify their feelings and say it's all their fault and they should just stop eating. It's not that easy. Every time when you see an anorexic person do we give those same feelings to big people who have emotional issues? Although we make fun of extremely thin people, socially people are more empathetic than they are on big people. Just because we might have shows towards big people with the sad music in the back to have the audience feel sorry for them does not stop people for making fat jokes and discriminating against them.
"Light skin black people I talk to say they wouldn't date someone that is light skin because they have pompous attitudes."
Dani,
Is it because another light skinned person doesn't value their lightness like a Darker skinned person supposedly would?
True sickness.
Grata said:
Dani,
Is it because another light skinned person doesn't value their lightness like a Darker skinned person supposedly would?
True sickness.LOL yeah it does come off like that. It comes off as "Let's benefit off of the dark skin people's self-hate or low self-esteem, because they are not as grand as light skin people" I had a talk with my Aunt who is light skin black woman. She tells me that she loves dark skin and wished she was. She told me that her boyfriend is dark skin but thinks she is "mixed" because of her light skin and denounces the fact that she is black. She asked why would he think that? He tends to believe that light skin is beautiful and that was the reason why he procreated with a white woman prior to being with her so his children can be light. I asked myself if she so loves dark skin, than why is she in love with someone that does not love his dark skin? It kind of put me off for a second because it made me feel like she liked him because he made her feel superior. However, I could be wrong but I wouldn't want to be with someone that hates themselves.
"THe WORST LINE IN THIS MOVIE--
NOBODY LOVES ME,
YOUR WRONG, YOUR BABY LOVES YOU."
I completely agree with you. When I saw this part in the trailer, I was thinking the same thing-- some other girl who feels the same way might think having a baby will solve her problems. I've seen this before, and I just want to tell the girl that it won't solve her problems at all at such a young age.
"Light skin men are viewed as feminine and dark skin women are viewed as masculine. How flawed is that? lol"
hmm, I've never given the feminine light skinned male issue much thought, but I think I can recall people playing on that stereotype. Interesting connection you made. It's unfortunate that many people believe these stereotypes instead of opening their eyes to reality--everyone is different.
texasladybird,
I know what is real. And I know what is fake. People do thngs for real reasons.
You said:
To a young woman with no options, having a baby at 15 is NOT the worst thing to happen to her. And considering how motherhood is sometimes fetishized, you can see how a baby can be a bright spot in an otherwise bleak future.
Having a baby at 15 is not a bright spot! It may not be the worst thing to happn to her, but it may be the worst thing to happen to that kid.
You can not expect to have a healthy child parent relationship wth that much expected of a child. Having a chid requires much more work and selflessness, than can ever be reciprocated. EVER!
A baby under certain circumstances no mateer how much of a blessing is going to be more of a curse if you are that unprepared. Unprepared is really an understaement. But you know what I mean.
Sid, have you ever heard of young Black women having kids as a sign of maturity? I heard about a story on NPR about a community of women who uphold this ideal.
-Kay
"Let's benefit off of the dark skin people's self-hate or low self-esteem, because they are not as grand as light skin people"
Dani,
I haven't laughted out so loud at something someone wrote on a blog in a long time. Sometimes the truthis painfully funny, LOL!
As for your aunt, yeah the story is dodgy. She likes someone that hates their dark skin. Hmmm, you do have to wonder indeed.
However many women do like men who worship them, the skin color pulls that sort of man to her and he adores her. So she gains on that front. Problem comes when these women start falsely believing in their Superiority, things can get bad pretty quickly. No self respecting person wants to be around someone that makes them feel inferior.
"Very Young Girls" is a good example of how the exploitation and commodification of young women of color gets far less traction in both the public discourse and from law enforcement and social services than the far smaller numbers of white women and girls who are "trafficked".
___________________________________
i agree, i'm getting so sick of the whole "protect the white woman's purity," complex movie. If i see one more lifetime movie where the world goes on lock down because of one white woman, i'm going to flip a sh*t. I couldn't believe they made a movie about trafficking and how one white man goes on a rampage and does all this just to get to one white woman, meanwhile you've got hundreds of thousands of black women in african being systematically and brutually raped and you barely get coverage, let alone a movie. Then ofcourse you've also got exploitation going on in american against young bw, but no one cares (they brought it on themselves) "black women don't get raped." No woman deserves ot be mistreated, but i'm getting tired of the bias here, apparently its only sexual exploitation when its mistreatment of a white woman.
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