Look at you; you're black, you're poor, you're ugly, you're a woman. You're nothing at all.
-Mister, The Color Purple
Now for all you folks who have not seen or read the Color Purple. SHAME ON YOU!!!! That movie is wonderful, and I think within it, you will see the dynamics and animosity that some black men and black women have towards each other. The animosity that still exists to this day.
Mister to me represent the black men who fall under the "black women ain't shit" category. These are the same men who always want to point out that 70% of black women are single, but fail to mention that 65% of black men are single. The ones who believe that black women are loud, rude, fat, fake, and only want thugs. The ones who exalt white or non-black women as the only choice for good eligible black men.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of men like this in the black community, and they along with the black women who believe "black men ain't shit" are what is wrong with our community.
These men have fallen victim to "keeping up with the Jones'". They want the "traditional" roles of men and women, but they don't realize they aren't part of the tradition. Much like black women have a hard time relating to the feminist movement, these same men don't realize they can't adhere to the traditional roles that existed within white america. Our roles since we have been here in America are vastly different.
Slavery was a bitch, there is no nice way to say that. Slavery was not only a cruel, barbaric practice, it is why the black family has suffered even to this day. The value of keeping families together was never emphasized by the folks who owned us. It was good for them, but not for us, as we were just livestock. Daddy, momma, and the children could all be sold off at any time. It wasn't that Daddy, or momma, and the kids wanted to go off, they had no choice, and like we always have done, we just kept moving on, we adjusted. Even once slavery was over, the opportunities for both black men and women were bleak, and even when we were able to keep our families together, the gender roles didn't equate to the roles of our white American counterparts. We both had to work outside the home, there was no woman stay home and take care of the kids in the majority of black households for a very long time, but the division of labor was split. Everyone worked, everyone helped raise the kids (not just mother and fathers, but grandparents, aunts, uncles, and neighbors). We still managed to marry and we still managed to work it out, even in these non traditional roles.
The start of the modern downfall was a little bit of everything. It has become all the rage to refer to marriage as simply a "piece of paper". Men and women of all ages are waiting later and later to get married. More people are opting not to get married at all. This isn't just black folks, but folks of all races here in America. People are slowing down the number of children they have. More women of all races are becoming educated and entering the professional work force, and the concept of marriage for financial stability has fallen to the wayside for the most part. Then in the low income black community there is the issue of welfare. The way the system exists now benefits single mothers, but married folks or men inside the home hinders the benefits available to you. This is where you see the increase of single black mothers raising black children all alone without a black male figure. For some who see this, and this is the norm for a child, when they get older,they will assume that is how things work. The belief will and has become you don't need a man to raise a family, and men who see this think they have no obligation to be in a family. The cycle has started, and it looks like there is no end in sight.
Within the black community we then have this belief system that due to our legacy of slavery, racism, and oppression in this country, we must protect the black men who were victims of this, as it appears they had it worse than black women, and even though black women suffered right along side with black men, our role is to support them come hell or high water. Los Angelista did a great post on this a while back. This has been a double edged sword for us. On one hand, since black women have kind have been on our own, many of us have become educated and hit the work force full throttle, more so than black men on average. The downfall of this, is this educational and professional success comes with backlash, which is why now we have the "black women ain't shit" brigade popping up all over the place.
These men use fear tactics and stats to prove "black women ain't shit". 70% of black women aren't married. True, but 65% of black men aren't married. The white, asian, and hispanic women are still the majority of time marrying folks of the same race, just like black folks are. Most black women are overweight. Welcome to America, most women of all races are overweight, for that matter so are most men. So we all have a little work to do in terms of eating right and going to the gym. Black women are fake with our hair, contacts, and nails. Most women are fake. How many natural blondes exist in America? I don't have fake boobs, or a nose job, or even a fake booty. I'm guilty of wearing make up. I'm guilty of wearing bras that "lift and separate" to give the illusion of perky DDs (which naturally does not occur all that often). Most black women want thugs. Just because you as a black man made a bad decision and dated a fool that left you, does not mean we are all fools. Why are you attracted to women who like thugs? Are you a thug?
Black women are well aware of their status in American society. It appears our status is changing. As we become more educated and more successful we will mainstream ourselves into society. Yes, that even means dating men who it has been told by us many a time that "don't want us". Some of us will marry those "who don't want us". Some of us will continue to marry good black men, and have wonderful black families. It scares the hell out the "black women ain't shit" brigade, and it should, as it shows that some of us black women know we are the shit, and we don't believe the hype the "black women ain't shit" brigade is blowing up our collective asses.
193 comments:
Do you ever read your posts complaining about how white see Asian and latin women as being more attractive and suitable mates than black women?
Really, you should read your own posts and maybe you'll realise that the main purvyers of the black women aint shit sentiment are white men!
Did you actually read the posts? Did you read about the stereotypes and hang up as a result of these stereotypes that causes this? Or did you just want to believe black women ain't shit.
The difference between the white men "black women ain't shit brigade" and black men ones is that white men don't start blogs, post videos, and scream from the rooftops that black women ain't shit. They just go on with their white, asian, hispanic women. They don't spend whole days on blogs from "sell out" white women telling them no one wants them. They don't say most white women are worthless and cause the decline of their white community.
"It appears our status is changing. As we become more educated and more successful we will mainstream ourselves into society.
Yes, that even means dating men who it has been told by us many a time that "don't want us". Some of us will marry those "who don't want us".
reply:
I think you should read your posts in which you frequently complain of white men promoting Asian and latin women before black women.
My point?
That white men are the ones who promote this notion that black women aint shit more so than any other group.
And as regards "changing status" well, I'm not sure how that applies to you since you grew up around whites, identified with white culture and sub-cultures and was even seen, at one point, by your own parents as a "white girl".
You have always been "mainstream" Siddity. Always considered "white" (as both a girl and a woman) and whatever you attach to your blackness, it normally comes in the form of white men marginalising black women in some form or another.
It cannot be easy having identified as a "white" girl and woman only to be told in no uncertain terms that you are less than white.
Sorry, siddity!
Word.........
Color Purple was playing the other day and I have several fav scenes in it, but that movie relates to not only yesterday, but today also as you've written.
Siddity said:
white men don't say most white women are worthless and cause the decline of their white community.
reply:
true. But white men who prefer Black women rarely complain in their blogs about most black women not finding them attractive in comparison to black and latin men.
Furthermore, what nasty black men think about black women should not concern someone who is not only married to a white man but practically drools over them as a race of men.
It doesnt add up,Siddity!
Sorry.
I see you've started vetting your posts. Does this mean my comments won't be published? That we cannot have a heated, adult debate on what YOU posted, Siddity?
Cosign. Black Women are da shit!
I think you should read your posts in which you frequently complain of white men promoting Asian and latin women before black women. Read my previous reply.
You have always been "mainstream" Siddity. Always considered "white" (as both a girl and a woman) and whatever you attach to your blackness, it normally comes in the form of white men marginalising black women in some form or another. It cannot be easy having identified as a "white" girl and woman only to be told in no uncertain terms that you are less than white.Do you actually read my blog? Seriously? I have never considered myself white, I think one thing about living in a predominantly white area all of your life is that you are always aware of your blackness and don't have the luxury of just thinking of yourself without regards to your race. I wrote that on my blog too. You must have missed that day LOL
true. But white men who prefer Black women rarely complain in their blogs about most black women not finding them attractive in comparison to black and latin men. Most white people don't look at the impact of mainstream beauty ideals and how it applies to other races of people. They just in most instances think that way. Now do I see white men make blogs in which they talk about the only way a black woman can be attractive is if she is light skinned and bright eyed.
I see you've started vetting your posts. Does this mean my comments won't be published? That we cannot have a heated, adult debate on what YOU posted, Siddity?Calm yourself. I have over at least the last year, moderated comments on this blog. I post most of the comments on this blog. I always have folks that do the "die nigger" comments and since they add no substance to the blog, I delete them. I haven't deleted or hidden your comments, I just didn't approve them yet.
Siddity said:
Most black women want thugs. Just because you as a black man made a bad decision and dated a fool that left you, does not mean we are all fools. Why are you attracted to women who like thugs? Are you a thug?
Reply:
you appear to be talking to an individual here, Siddity. I mean, who is "you"?
15 million African-American males?
Furthermore, what nasty black men think about black women should not concern someone who is not only married to a white man but practically drools over them as a race of men.
As of June I have been with my husband for ten years. We have been married since 2003. I can honestly tell you there is no reason for me to pretend I am married in regards to this blog. Why would I? Or does the fact I am a married black woman to a white man bother you so much since you are part of the "black women ain't shit" brigade, and defies your belief that black women are all alone and desperate for male attention?
Siddity said:
I have never considered myself white...
Reply:
I said you were considered "white" not that you considered yourself "white". You did, howver, post saying that you were the "white woman" at work. Remember that?
Reply:
you appear to be talking to an individual here, Siddity. I mean, who is "you"?
15 million African-American males?I am talking to the men who assume the millions of black women in America are all the same. That we all want thugs. I am talking to the men like YOU.
my wife has every word of that movie memorized and after nine years of marriage, so do I.
Hate and anger are never productive in a posative way. No matter who is lashing out at who, hate hinders actual discussion and rational thought.
Your post is a great discussion on what may be considered an internal issue. While I think it is good for someone like me to be aware, it is not exactly a fray I should enter.
Though Steven Spielberg shifted his subject matter from mechanical thrills to human drama for this 1985 feature, he didn't alter his style one bit. After the relatively restrained opening half hour, there's a climax every ten minutes, each sequence so loaded with extraneous visual pizzazz, incongruous comic business, emphatic music cues, and wildly hyped emotionality that it's almost impossible to discern the narrative line. As Alice Walker's long-suffering heroine, Whoopi Goldberg functions as a pity magnet--as one character points out, she's black, poor, a woman, and ugly, the apotheosis of the disadvantaged. But the character is so maddeningly passive that our sympathy is exhausted long before he pulls the expected reversal. A lot of good actors (Danny Glover, Margaret Avery, Adolph Caesar, Rae Dawn Chong) are lost to Spielberg's shallow melodrama; the only one who emerges with any clarity is Oprah Winfrey, perhaps because Spielberg shares her shameless crowd-pleasing instincts.
Reply:
you appear to be talking to an individual here, Siddity. I mean, who is "you"?
15 million African-American males?
Siddity replies:
I am talking to the men who assume the millions of black women in America are all the same. That we all want thugs. I am talking to the men like YOU.
Reply:
lol I think I made a very clear distinction between women like you and other black women, Siddity!
Oh, and if you are referring to men like me then just say MEN.
Simple.
I said you were considered "white" not that you considered yourself "white". You did, howver, post saying that you were the "white woman" at work. Remember that?Yes stalker, I do. I remember telling folks that according to the white woman at work, I was white. I didn't call myself white.
I can tell you are an avid reader, but you really aren't comprehending what I write.
OOps I meant to say black woman. Please go here to see the post in which I call myself a white woman.
Don't mistake my debate with you as having issues with black women... or mixed relationships.
I have an issue with HONESTY.
lol I think I made a very clear distinction between women like you and other black women, Siddity!When and where exactly did you do that?
Oh, and if you are referring to men like me then just say MEN.So am I to assume all men think black women ain't shit?
I have an issue with HONESTY.What have I not been honest about?
Dave,
Copy much?
anon said:
Oh, and if you are referring to men like me then just say MEN.
Siddity said:
So am I to assume all men think black women ain't shit?
Reply:
No darling, just the type of men you ASSUME I am lol
anon said:
I have an issue with HONESTY.
Siddity replid:
What have I not been honest about?
anon said:
trust me, sweety, you have NOT been honst with yourself or your readers!
No darling, just the type of men you ASSUME I am lol
So exactly why are you so keen on "debating me" because I said that some black men seem to have issues with black women and want to blame the downfall of the black community on black women?
trust me, sweety, you have NOT been honst with yourself or your readers!How am I not honest with myself?
Hi Siditty,
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. It is time for black women to choose a different path for their image, their stories, for their lives, for their happiness etc. Cause we ARE here and we are beautiful.
Hi Siditty,
I realize this is your blog and you have a right to post comments from whom you wish. (although I personally don't accept post from those who will not at least give themselves a nickname, LOL) But, I'll have to disagree with your adversary just a bit. White men aren't the ones pushing the black women ain't sh*t belief more than anyone else. As someone who worked in the fashion industry, it appears that nonblacks are more likely to put unmixed black women in their lines and mags than blacks. There was also an article out a few years ago that the vast majority of women in rap videos were racially mixed or looked such(black/asian mixes are popular).
You spoke the truth in your post and the guilty don't like it, LOL.
On one hand, I do agree with the anonymous debator. Some of your posts and the comments here are a bit negative. One in particular is when you stated that you envied Asian women. I have to be honest and say that I cringed when I read that, LOL.
Then again, I respect the fact that not everyone has the same experience. 99% of the black women I know who wanted a nonblack man ended up getting one. The only one who did not was the type who believed that no one wanted her.
Lastly to anon, I don't see too many blogs from white men who declare that black women don't find the attractive. I tend to see it more off the net.
Siddity said:
So exactly why are you so keen on "debating me" because I said that some black men seem to have issues with black women and want to blame the downfall of the black community on black women?
Reply:
Are you asking or telling me?
I swear to God that asian post kills me. I did it tongue it cheek. I said it like 20,000 times in the comments on that post. I made is disclaimer for the post the DAY i posted it, and still folks really believe that. I explained my reasoning for the post. I do not really envy asian women. For the love of God folks what else do I need to do?
Did anyone figure out I was discussing mainstream beauty ideals and acceptance? Does anyone deny that asian folks, in particular asian women are seen as safe options in terms of IR for white, black, and hispanic men?
Siditty,
Having read the post and the entire "discussion" you're having with this charming individual(s), I believe you're more than holding your own against these person(s).
Not sure what the major beef is, beyond you voicing your own very valid opinion on the current state of today's relationships.
As for the movie, I'm pretty sure I watched the entire thing in large chunks in the proceeding years, and I thought it was a pretty good movie. I thought Whoopi Goldberg came across as 100% believable.
Interesting slice of American life during that time period.
LOL @ Sid and the troll. It looks like to get a BM's attention you have to say something they don't agree with.
On a more serious note, let us all agree that American BM as a collective are indifferent to the welfare of BW.
In my book any group of men that doesn't consider the welfare of their women does not deserve the same rights and treatment as the rest of society. Yes I said it, BM are not deserving of equal rights since they don't wish the same for their women and children.
BM do this by outright direct offense or total inaction. Both are one and the same to me.
So all those cries of racism by the black male really are just noise to me at this point.
They only seek to advance their own interests with out consideration for Black women and children.
If someone is indifferent to your plight like BM are towards BW. Why should BW be concerned about BM welfare?
Black men of today have failed and continue to fail the BC. And the more sicker ones are spreading their sickness into other communities. They will go there have kids and still abandon them the way they do BW. What we have coming is a generation of Mulatto kids that hate blacks. I have seen quite afew around. As if the hatred for blacks wasn't enough in the world, they have to go out and procreate more.
Remind me exactly why I should care for the BM's struggle.
A single one gets treated injustly and the community with mostly women at the forefront come running to rescue them. BW are to blame for enabling these men.
BW in America are in a unique position. BM don't have the economic or political power to hold them down. What BW are doing by continually supporting BM is really a selfless act. Other women have done their womanly duties in exchange for political and economic power. BW in America can get both without needing to appease the BM. So why exactly do they still support these men? Loyalty to skin color?
In the post Obama age, race will become increasingly irrelevant and what will be the reason to support BM most of whom by that time won't even be active in the community ?
BW, stop caring for people that don't have your interests at heart unless ofcourse you are all about self destruction then please, do proceed. BM have been riding on your backs for too long.
To the anon who keeps going back and forth with Siditty. Go overdose on blood thinners and then take a broken glass bottle and scratch the inside of your ass until you hemorrhage away all of your stupidity. Stupid Neanderthal
A few points:
- I am not a "black women ain't shit" brigader. I really don't care what other people do with their private lives.
I don't care if someone else wants to date or marry same race or not, or same sex or not, it doesn't concern me. I just wish they would leave me (personally and indirectly) out of it. When they fail to do that, then there is a problem.
- No one mentions that 65% of Black men are single because Black men rarely if ever complain about being single. The complaints of being single are mostly lead by women (and the Oprah's and Tyra's egging them on).
- As for the 70% stat, I will say that I bring it up as reference point because it is necessary at times. I bring it up to Black women in hopes that maybe they will understand that just maybe it is something(s) that they are doing wrong and they are not the perfect victims that some of them continously portray themselves as.
And don't get me wrong, I am aware that some women choose to be single. I am talking about those who bring that 70% stat up as if they are entitled to being married to the man of their choice.
- If you are being honest with yourself, the difference between the hate from Black Men and the hate from non-black Men (specifically White) is that deep down inside you feel that Black men owe you on a level that other Men don't. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees over what is owed if anything is one thing, but let's be honest about the source of discomfort.
White men may not have blogs that disparage Black women, but they don't need them when they have TV stations, Newspapers, Magazines, Satelites, etc that have been around longer doing it's damage.
- You also stated that other men don't down "their" women, they just go off with other women instead. Well I am sure that there are many Black men who date/marry out who would love to peaceably go off with other women yet when they do they face an hysterical shitstorm of entitlement from some Black women. Probably from that aforementioned deep down inside source. Follow the link on your twitter about Russell Simmons for the latest example.
- Like I have said many times before, it is called Self-esteem for a reason. People who seek theirs from being a part of a group are asking for the trouble they get.
I am not a "black women ain't shit" brigader. I really don't care what other people do with their private lives. I didn't mention you or anyone by name. This post was inspired by an anonymous commenter on my Maxwell post. I will post part of his comment here to see why the tirade is here:
"Now lets look at some facts. The facts point out the truth. -Black men want white, asian, latin women. -White men want asian women -Neither want black women - Decent Latino's don't want black women - Asians, Arabs and Desis will mostly stick to their race or marry each other. Y'all are fucked. 70% black women are single. The one benefit of having a black girlfriend would be if you wanted food stamps they know how to get them easily."
No where in the Maxwell post was there a concern about single black women. No where was there talk of any man except for Maxwell. This is just out of the blue. This happens way too often.
It seems whenever there is a blog about black women, there is the need to bring up no one wants us and that damn 70% statistic. Black women are wanted. Maybe not by all men, but dammit SOMEONE wants us. No matter where I go the talk is by BLACK MEN on BLACK BLOGS is that black women are single. The media focuses on the lack of black men and that black women are single. The message we get from MAINSTREAM MEDIA, the internet (be it blogs or videos), or magazines all tell us black men don't want us, and black women ain't shit.
- As for the 70% stat, I will say that I bring it up as reference point because it is necessary at times. I bring it up to Black women in hopes that maybe they will understand that just maybe it is something(s) that they are doing wrong and they are not the perfect victims that some of them continously portray themselves as. Who portrays themselves as the perfect victim. Whenever a black woman is a victim in ANYTHING, the blame goes to her. You're 14 and a grown as man is sexing you up, it is because you are fast and you are trying to trap him. Any other race of folks, they would see a teenager as a victim, not the man sexing her up. Hell black women who get raped get the same treatment, they are just trying to trap a man and get him locked up. Hell we lose our jobs due to discrimination, it is our fault, we got to uppity. It goes on and on. Black women aren't even allowed to be victims. I want to know what black women as a whole are doing to assume that we deserve to be alone and single? Why are black men not looking AT THEMSELVES instead of pointing the finger at black women. 65% of you are single too, what is wrong with yall?
If you are being honest with yourself, the difference between the hate from Black Men and the hate from non-black Men (specifically White) is that deep down inside you feel that Black men owe you on a level that other Men don't. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees over what is owed if anything is one thing, but let's be honest about the source of discomfort.You are right, I think black women on average think black men should sympathize with them in their struggle, the problem is many feel that black men don't do this. They instead jump on the bandwagon and join in on the ridicule, and revel in delight at the concept of white mainstream beauty standards, and then expect black women to adhere to those standards.
White men may not have blogs that disparage Black women, but they don't need them when they have TV stations, Newspapers, Magazines, Satelites, etc that have been around longer doing it's damage. The sad thing is, in knowing this, you would think there would be MORE black men who have access to media trying to encourage and appreciate black women, not insult and degrade them. Even if that media is a blog.
Well I am sure that there are many Black men who date/marry out who would love to peaceably go off with other women yet when they do they face an hysterical shitstorm of entitlement from some Black women.Like those of us who get shit from black men when they see us with white ones. Do you know how often I got the "He is using you for sex" comments from black men? There are folks still waiting for me to tell the story of being called a n*gger in an argument with my husband. Ten years later I don't have that story to tell.
What link to Russell Simmons? Who wants Russell Simmons ass, unless they want money? The man comes off as an asshole and he ain't cute. He is lucky to get any woman of any race. More power to them.
LOL @ Sid and the troll. It looks like to get a BM's attention you have to say something they don't agree with.
I don't find it funny. I find it sad that it is a tactic that far too many needy Black women are employing. If BM are worthless, then why the need to get their attention?
On a more serious note, let us all agree that American BM as a collective are indifferent to the welfare of BW.
Let us all not agree, speak for yourself.
In my book any group of men that doesn't consider the welfare of their women does not deserve the same rights and treatment as the rest of society. Yes I said it, BM are not deserving of equal rights since they don't wish the same for their women and children.
You either believe in justice, civil rights and human rights or you don't. It is really non-negotiable. Thankfully we have laws and a constitution that protect those rights.
When you talk like that, you sound like a sexual predator. Quid pro Quo, love me or there will be hell to pay. Just like some white men use to do (and still do) to white women in the office before sexual harrasment laws came into effect.
Finally, women are not property. They do not belong to men, they belong to themselves.
BM do this by outright direct offense or total inaction. Both are one and the same to me.
So all those cries of racism by the black male really are just noise to me at this point.
They only seek to advance their own interests with out consideration for Black women and children.
You make it sound as if combating racism is only beneficial to Black men, and not the Black women and children.
If someone is indifferent to your plight like BM are towards BW. Why should BW be concerned about BM welfare?
Beyond the law and common human decency, I am indifferent to everyone's plight other than the people in my life. If I am walking down the street and I see someone being mugged and I can help, I will. If I can make a friend or strangers day better without terribly inconvenienceing myself, I will.
However, I am not interested in teaching other grown adults how to be grown adults, I am too busy with my own life.
Black men of today have failed and continue to fail the BC.
Yes they have. And so have Black women.
And the more sicker ones are spreading their sickness into other communities. They will go there have kids and still abandon them the way they do BW.
Unfortunately there are women in those communities who just like some Black women, refuse to take control of their bodies. Unless if a woman is being raped, she has no excuse for allowing a man who is probably not going to stick around to ejaculate inside her with his uncovered penis.
To do this and then turn around with unmitigated gall and only place the blame on the man is the height of irresponsibility.
What we have coming is a generation of Mulatto kids that hate blacks. I have seen quite afew around. As if the hatred for blacks wasn't enough in the world, they have to go out and procreate more.
Mulatto? What year is this? And who cares what ethnicity they are, hate is hate and should not be taught or tolerated.
Remind me exactly why I should care for the BM's struggle.
Because it is a part of the human struggle? Or do you not care about that unless if it only involves your interests?
I could continue, but I doubt it will register, so I will spare myself the time and effort and leave you to smolder in your own stank about what you believe the world owes you.
I didn't mention you or anyone by name. This post was inspired by an anonymous commenter on my Maxwell post. I will post part of his comment here to see why the tirade is here:
I know you weren't referring to me, but I just wanted to add that as a disclaimer because I wanted to avoid having that charge thrown at me by people who don't want to read my arguments.
As for the anonymous commenter who wrote he should get his facts straight. 90-92% of married Black men are with Black women, and most people stick with their own race when it comes to marriage. And he probably shouldn't be taken seriously anyway with that ignorant food stamps dig at the end (way too many non-blacks on welfare).
It seems whenever there is a blog about black women, there is the need to bring up no one wants us and that damn 70% statistic. Black women are wanted. Maybe not by all men, but dammit SOMEONE wants us. No matter where I go the talk is by BLACK MEN on BLACK BLOGS is that black women are single. The media focuses on the lack of black men and that black women are single. The message we get from MAINSTREAM MEDIA, the internet (be it blogs or videos), or magazines all tell us black men don't want us, and black women ain't shit.
What scenario would you rather have:
- People never mention the 70% stat but yet the effects of that stat exists
or
- people mention it thus giving Black women an insight into a problem (assuming that they want to get married then it is a huge problem) and therefore giving them a chance to fix it.
Who portrays themselves as the perfect victim. Whenever a black woman is a victim in ANYTHING, the blame goes to her. You're 14 and a grown as man is sexing you up, it is because you are fast and you are trying to trap him. Any other race of folks, they would see a teenager as a victim, not the man sexing her up. Hell black women who get raped get the same treatment, they are just trying to trap a man and get him locked up. Hell we lose our jobs due to discrimination, it is our fault, we got to uppity. It goes on and on. Black women aren't even allowed to be victims.
Sexism is far from a Black community only problem. I wish I had the solution to make it go away, along with other maladies.
I want to know what black women as a whole are doing to assume that we deserve to be alone and single? Why are black men not looking AT THEMSELVES instead of pointing the finger at black women. 65% of you are single too, what is wrong with yall?
Again, the perception is that the men are single by choice and the women are not. Men regardless of race are at an advantage when it comes to marriage. Men traditionally marry down in terms of age and education while women marry up.
A 40 year old Black Male doctor who wants to get married will have many, many more prospects than a 40 year old Black female doctor who is looking for her match. The male doctor can marry his 30 year old secretary while the female doctor may not feel right doing the same.
You are right, I think black women on average think black men should sympathize with them in their struggle, the problem is many feel that black men don't do this. They instead jump on the bandwagon and join in on the ridicule, and revel in delight at the concept of white mainstream beauty standards, and then expect black women to adhere to those standards.
And shame on any man who ridicules the looks and doesn't have the decency to walk away from a woman he is not interested in.
And to be fair, some Black women expect Black men to adhere to the same financial standards as white men, even though they lack many of the privileges that white men have (not discriminated against, no trust fund, no good ol boy network connections, etc).
The sad thing is, in knowing this, you would think there would be MORE black men who have access to media trying to encourage and appreciate black women, not insult and degrade them. Even if that media is a blog.
There are blogs/media of all sorts. We just tend to notice those that are the most critical of us. Human nature I guess.
What link to Russell Simmons?
http://globalgrind.com/content/659969/Btch-Get-Your-Own-Man/Who wants Russell Simmons ass, unless they want money? The man comes off as an asshole and he ain't cute. He is lucky to get any woman of any race. More power to them.Who wants Russell Simmons ass, unless they want money? The man comes off as an asshole and he ain't cute. He is lucky to get any woman of any race. More power to them.
And this is exactly what I am talking about. Instead of wishing him well you found it necessary to insult the man and to question the integrity of his possible relationship.
You couldn't let him go peaceably, yet you wonder why there is a gender war?
LOL @ Sid and the troll. It looks like to get a BM's attention you have to say something they don't agree with.--Grata
LOL, but why care about getting black men's attention? (smile)
So all those cries of racism by the black male really are just noise to me at this point.--Grata
Wow! It's almost like you are in my head. I am so apathetic towards the so-called "plight" of black men it isn't funny. I think it's because it has been shoved down our throats long enough. I also believe that they are 100% responsible for their condition in this country.
BW in America are in a unique position. BM don't have the economic or political power to hold them down.--Grata
Truth! I think most black women know this which is why many continue to sacrifice themselves for black men. I also believe that black women are responsible for their condition both good and bad. We need to shift the focus off of black men and onto our own continued advancement.
Last but certainly not least, we need to identify ourselves as women in our own right and NOT as extentions of black men.
Oh, so this is why I get no visitors or comments to my blog. I don't piss off enough people or strike a nerve.
The conversation going on here completely reiterates the idea of animosity between black women and men. I'm glad for the dialogue but nothing seems to be getting through.
This is all I have to offer: the intersection of race and gender have affected black women and men in drastically different ways over the centuries. The main difference that I would like to point out is that women always have to deal with beauty standards not set for men. This is not to say that we are not all affected by skin color because we are, but women still have to deal with incredibly narrow definitions of what is beautiful and what is not. Then THAT beauty is used to calculate our worth in all areas such as intelligence, talent and labor.
I see nothing wrong with self-preservation so the "angry" responses coming from black women are justified. If you feel that black women feel "owed," its because we are concerned for our communities and we understand that it takes all of us to survive in it. Even if a brother is married outside of the race, he is still a black man in this country and we can't abandon him when he needs our support. Then again, I don't think we should support black men (like R. Kelly) who have victimized young black girls who then get to bear the brunt of his actions because of stigmas attached to black female sexuality.
Black women don't want to dominate men; hell, if a man is easily dominated, who wants him anyway. But we certainly don't want to be dominated. Why is asking to be considered an equal and respected as such so much to ask? If you are looking for the right kind of woman, you will find her, but if you keep looking for strippers and expect them to become Little Mary Homemaker, you've made the mistake.
I may or may not end up with a black man or, truth be told, I may end up alone. I'm fine either way. It's okay to want a man (or a woman) but it's sad to need one. If you aren't happy with yourself, you can't expect someone else to bring happiness to you, only add to it. All I know is, physical attraction is probably the first thing that makes two people come together. A man may be attracted to my brown skin, my nappy hair and my brown eyes, but those things won't and shouldn't keep him. I think the sooner black women and men realize that race as a social construct will always affect how the rest of the world perceives and treats us even in our post-Obama brave new world, the sooner we can get it together and keep our communities together. It doesn't matter if we grew up in white, Asian, black or Latino neighborhoods. There's SOMETHING about being black!
Hi Inda,
Thanks for sharing. I can't argue with anything you wrote.
good post siditty, the first anonymous poster who is badgering sid, is rocky i bet, he always harasses black women for no reason.
Can you cite a reliable source for the statistics on unmarried black women and unmarried black men?
I read this statistic on another blog as well and wondered if people are assuming that because 70% of black children are born out of wedlock that 70% of black women are single.
Something happened in the Black community where SOME BM and BW just stopped respecting each other. BM and BW do not own each other, but we should at least recognize each others humanity. This means agreeing without being disagreeable. Being married to a White man does not mean that as a BW, I hate BM. I just don't see them as romantic partners. My value comes from knowing who I am and exercising my right to choose. I don't care what a BM or anyone else thinks about the choices I made in my life. Those who feel the need to judge clearly have too much time on their hands. We were all created for something here on Earth. The Color Purple is my favorite movie because it shows how you can triumph over some pretty ugly circumstances and learn to love and be a whole person in spite of the other stuff.BW are some of the strongest people on the planet and we deserve to be loved, cherished and valued like any other woman.
Hey Siddity!
Anyone who has spent time in the blogosphere and starts counting the anti-black women posts at blogs hosted by white men versus the anti-black women sentiment at blogs hosted by black male adults will realize that white men are not sitting at their keyboards bashing black women.
In fact, many white guys try to post comments at my forum and they AREN'T BASHING.
I am not claiming that there aren't any racists in the world or in cyberland, however....
I would also suggest that anyone who wants to see the statistics concerning black women go to google and just do some simple searches.
Which group has killed more black women than ANY OTHER group in the United States?
Which group has raped more black women than ANY OTHER group in the United States?
Which group has abandoned their children at greater rates than ANY OTHER group in the United States?
Ummmm....
There are articles that have these verifiable statistics.
Siddity, I have noted that those guys who want to bring toxicity into black women's forums often will accuse the blog hosts of not allowing differing views. It's just another manipulative ploy to try and get black wonen to ACCEPT condescension and disrespect.
I am happy to see that you aren't falling for the okey doke!
*raised black glove*
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
P.S. Do you mind if I use this video clip for a post I am planning about opposition tactics that black women need to be aware of?
Siddity said:
So exactly why are you so keen on "debating me" because I said that some black men seem to have issues with black women and want to blame the downfall of the black community on black women?
Reply:
Are you asking or telling me?
May 20, 2009 4:29 PM
Why don't you stop playing coy and get to the point of WHATEVER it is you are hinting at?!
"What link to Russell Simmons? Who wants Russell Simmons ass, unless they want money? The man comes off as an asshole and he ain't cute. He is lucky to get any woman of any race. More power to them."
My thoughts exactly! The gold-diggers can have his little ugly ass. Yuck.
"Truth! I think most black women know this which is why many continue to sacrifice themselves for black men. I also believe that black women are responsible for their condition both good and bad. We need to shift the focus off of black men and onto our own continued advancement."
Yes and let a grown man either fend for himself or fall on his face. It's the only way they'll learn to look after themselves -- like baby birds -- fly or fall.
Siditty,
Check out this blog. I think you would like it.
http://www.blackisbeautiful.se/
"good post siditty, the first anonymous poster who is badgering sid, is rocky i bet, he always harasses black women for no reason."
Nah. It's Menelik Charles, the one who posts from England. What gave him away was the 'darlings', 'sweethearts' and his use of an 's where we would use a 'z'.
Maybe I grew up in a different kind of environment and I have a different world view, but I will have to say that I have some difficulties understanding some points of both sides of this debate. I also think that one of the problems on both sides of the arguments concerns the terms that both sides are using. For example, the use of BLACK MEN and BLACK WOMEN seem to be used by both sides as exclusive terms to describe EVERYONE that Western society defines as BLACK MEN or BLACK WOMEN while at the same time using them to describe a certain segment of African American society.
The problem that I see with this is that I when I lived in America I got the impression that there is no real monolithic group called BLACK MEN or BLACK WOMEN. My personal experiences were that there were VARIOIUS groups who could be termed African American who had different cultures and outlooks. I remember through my travels through the US meeting various African American men and women who did not share the same cultures, religions, languages, thoughts, philosophies, etc when compared to African Americans I met in other areas. For example, when I was a kid I was in contact with a lot of African American Muslims and Nation of Islam people. They often seemed to have a different view about life than African American Christians I met. This included some of the issues that were discussed in this post. The difference, in my view, was because of the cultures of these groups were different in relation to their philosophy of their community structures. By like token African Americans I met in Kansas City, MO seemed to have a different culture than African Americans I met when I lived in Texas. By like token African Americans in Texas seemed different than African Americans in California and NYC. Maybe it was me, but the differences seemed enough for me to believe that in each of these regions a different element of culture had developed.
When I was a kid I grew up in a closed off neighbourhood that was predominately African American community. It was closed off in the sense that there was no through traffic and culturally it was isolated from the other neighbourhoods that surrounded it. So it was there that I saw African American men and women working in a community structure with their similarities and differences in a REAL community context. That is as compared to a concept of community based solely on skin colour with concern of location, developed culture, and shared experiences. The culture that developed there was an organic culture with something that was being developed almost like a commune or qibbutz type of society, yet existing within the broader society sense since it was still in a city.
I remember that there were many types of marriages between various types of African American men and women. They were not all perfect, but the society worked so that even when things happened there was still a community structure. I remember out of the entire neighbourhood of about 40 or 50 families there were only 2 divorces. I also don’t remember there being a African American man vs African American women type of element or environment. I simply remember people being people, with the exception that there were always 1 or 2 families that always had drama, but as a community we simply dealt with the reality that there is always 1 or 2.
Also, talking to my uncles from my father’s side they also lived in a similar type of community although it was more mixed (Turkish, Latino, and African American). They said that the majority of the people in their community spoke about 3 languages and developed an organic community of their own.
I remember one of the elders once telling me that he remembered that when a man and woman were married that the husband had to either build the wife a house of her own that he could never enter. If he could not do that he had to give her a room in the house that he could not enter. Also, if a husband ever disrespected his wife she had a right to call all the men his family and her family. They would show up in the middle of the night, wake him up, and have a stern talk with him. If he listened and treated his wife better they would leave him alone and life would go on. If he did not listen they would show up again, in the middle of the night, and let’s say they would not be so nice. They would continue to show up as many times as it took for him to get his act together.
So with that as a pretext I can go back to my previous misunderstanding of both sides. My questions are the following. Are the problems being mentioned about Black Men an overall problem, or is it isolated to a percentage of black men? For example, are you talking about 50%, 60%, etc and if so would not the answer simply be an alliance between African American men and likeminded African American women? Not just in the sense of, for example, likeminded African Americans men and women in isolated environments where they are like foreigners only being connected by the internet or by driving several miles to local community settings, but instead said liked minded AA men and women moving into the same local and building an organic community, instead of simply a virtual one?
Also, is it possible that terms like Black Men and Black Women are so inclusive as terms that it avoids the reality that there are PEOPLE that are being lumped together with those who they stand diametrically opposed to? For example, where does one find a historically universally accepted group of laws that dictate what the role of a Black Man or a Black Woman is? For example, if it is incumbent for a Black Man to act a certain way to a Black Woman, where is this written? By like token if there is a particular way that a Black Women is supposed to act towards a Black Man where is this written? If it is not written but simply common sense, then it would stand to reason that anyone who goes against said COMMON SENSE rules are really not Black Men or Black Women, or maybe those who DO live by it are something else, for example, African American vs those who reject the COMMON SENSE rules of Blackness.
If BLACK MEN are THE problem it would be a simple matter of writing off all men who fall into the category of BLACK MEN as heretics, if you will, to the COMMON SENSE rules of blackness and simply finding a new source of MEN. If BLACK WOMEN are THE problem then it would be a simple matter of writing off all WOMEN who fall into the category of BLACK WOMEN as heretics, if you will, to the COMMON SENSE rules of blackness and simply finding a new source of women. YET, and I stress YET. If there are segments or pockets of resistance within the term BLACK MEN, who are not the problem or even not a part of the problem it would seem that these men would be defined or termed differently. i.e. using a common term for two opposite types of people complicates that matter because said common term gives the impression as if both sides are the same when they are not and they are diametrically opposed to each other.
Kind of like saying, black man A who lives by these common sense laws is African American; where black man B who rejects the common sense laws is a heretic is not really a black man to begin with. Or better yet Man A is African American and Man B is a Black. So when people see African American Man A they know that this is someone who follows said common sense laws of blackness, where when someone sees the term Black Man they automatically know this is someone who is opposed to said common sense laws. By like token the same logic would be applied to women.
This all reminds me of the Chris Rock once told about a civil war going on in the African American community and there are two sides Black People and the N-People. The Black people were cool, but the N-people had to go. Maybe African Americans need the civil war Chris Rock was talking about.
"I don't find it funny. I find it sad that it is a tactic that far too many needy Black women are employing. If BM are worthless, then why the need to get their attention?"
Hahaha! You are back for some ego feeding.
"Let us all not agree, speak for yourself"
Oh dear.....I see you don't have much to say.
"When you talk like that, you sound like a sexual predator. Quid pro Quo, love me or there will be hell to pay."
Dude you sound seriously twisted and sick.
How does the expectation of BM to be productive members of the BC and society at large turn into me expecting intimacy from them.
For the record, I have never been attracted to any African American male. Get a grip. Not everyone is sexually attracted to your kind. If I want a Black man, I want a real one, I definitely won't look to America to give me one.
Don't worry there are plenty of women out here into your type.
And yes I know there are different individuals who are good etc
"You make it sound as if combating racism is only beneficial to Black men, and not the Black women and children."
Combating racism is done by both BM and BW so rightly BW benefit from their own efforts.
What do BM do when they get a little freedom? Well look around.
Look at all the watershed moments in the fight for racism, other than Rosa Parks somehow the issue always focuses on the Black male with the BW behind supporting him. When will BM step back and put the BW's struggle before their own.
Seriously we have reached a tipping point on hearing BM out.
In case you have been missing the signs pay close attention to the BM stories in the media lately and gauge the reactions.
A time is coming when a supposedly innocent BM will be shot in the back and you won't hear a peep out of anyone.
Reference the famous poem from the holocaust survivor.
There will be no one to speak up for you. The BW who would will either have given up on you or her abilities to support you will be totally exhausted by the battering from society. Alternatively she will realize the falseness of skin color loyalty and will look out for her own interests. This last one is already happening.
You doubt me, just wait.
I personally have come from a point of being extremely sympathetic to the BM's struggle to now not seeing him at all. And I mean in everyday life, I don't acknowledge his presence when I meet him or involve myself with a friendly one with a little chit chat. Prejudiced? Maybe but I think more indifferent. Why accomodate that which seems to have no use on a larger scale.
And never be fooled for one bit by thinking that the individualist culture you seem to promote will be your saving grace.
Humanity will forever judge a man by his cultural background. Some of you think you can marry yourself into dignity. It never happens. A man that doesn't contribute to his own immediate community is despised everywhere he goes. Its like a curse.
Whites have a largely individualistic culture but there is concern for the greater white community. BM like you think you can go to school, make a decent living (from a job created by the WM) marry a WW and think you have made it LOL! But your own distant cousins are busy shooting themselves in the hood.
Those same whites you believe you are at the same level with still judge and despise you by what you left behind. You should hear the back room jokes made of Tiger Woods and his reluctance to help his own people (even though he publically denied them to the applause of whites).
You can run but you can't hide. On their part, whites take care of their communities but for middle class BM, that is beneath them ?
"Unless if a woman is being raped, she has no excuse for allowing a man who is probably not going to stick around to ejaculate inside her with his uncovered penis."
Will the Black man ever be at fault for anything in this world? He is always a victim right?
"Mulatto? What year is this? And who cares what ethnicity they are, hate is hate and should not be taught or tolerated."
O, I forgot we were post racial society and people no longer identify by race or ethnicity.
So the existence of mixed race children, the bitterness and confusion some of them harbor towards blacks is not the fault of the BM?
You truly make BM appear even more useless than I imagined.
Keep talking you are truly enlightening.
"Because it is a part of the human struggle? Or do you not care about that unless if it only involves your interests?"
Ofcourse, why should I care for the rights of someone that maybe a threat to me.
If Black men can't protect BW and indeed join the forces that are out to destroy her, why shouldn't the BW defend herself even if that means looking the other way when her potential victimizer is being victimized.
I will share a little personal story.
In my second year in America I was going to the bus stop and this BM jay walked to the bus stop and was followed by cops. From a distance I could see the situation was tense, being angered by American racism and have lived through wars, this one was easy. I walked up straight to them and stood abour 5 feet from them and pretended to be eagerly waiting for the bus. They were asking him for his ID and all sorts of questions. He didn't have his ID. I had approached them from behind so they didn't see me coming, their tone was hash and bullying in nature, the man was well dressed but was already shaking. I am a fight and not flight person. So I made my presense noticed and made eye contact with the cops. I was seeing a potential Rodney King scenario. When they sensed that I was there and ready to be a witness they toned down their aggression and reduced it to a fatherly lecture on crossing roads safely etc and they left. Despite the fact that they had failed to ID the man, they left. I went on the same bus with the guy and he never uttered a single word to me. He had been utterly humiliated and here was a BW he didn't know who came over sort of helped with the situation. I felt this man had been totally deballed, dehumanized etc and felt personally insulted.
Now fast foward three years,This last Sunday, I came across this Black kid on a Sunday morning on the subway being Manhandled by 2 cops while another stood on the side as if looking out for any potential witnesses. I saw the first cop before approaching the entire scene, he was white and he seemed abit startled when he saw me approach, when I came around the corner I understood why he had acted strangely. There was this kid slammed against the wall being aggressively questioned. You know what I did? I didn't give the scene a second look, I kept walking and only looked back once and saw the other cop looking a little more relieved that I had chosen to mind my business. I later on reflected on the scene and I thought. "Yeah, this is where we are now, look the other way".
Frankly the way things are I don't give a rat's ass for the BM's progress or acquisition of more power than he has already. That power is barely going to benefit the BW, it may actually be used to destroy her like we see the entertainment industy doing.
Sad but the true reality is that ironically the BW maybe better off in the White Supremist system as it is of now.
We have seen what freedom for the BM gets for the BW, I would be interested to know given the realities of BM support of the BC todate, how many BW would want even more freedom for the BM. Ofcourse I am too 'biased' to take that poll.
"I could continue, but I doubt it will register, so I will spare myself the time and effort and leave you to smolder in your own stank about what you believe the world owes you."
LOL! BM of America don't owe me anything. Like I said, I have no desire to get to know you lot. I am just calling you out on what you owe the American BW. Obviously you don't like that. Oh well.....
Jesus Christ, what did I miss? A bunch of sniping back and forth between black men and black women, apparently (excluding Siditty).
It's kind of sad to read a lot of generalizations being posted about black men and women. And not just from the trolls. If only we could treat one another as individuals OVER the internet! We CAN'T all just get along....
Color Purple was friggin awesome! That clip really took me back.
My favorite quote in the movie(not in this clip) -
"You sho' is uuuuglay!" LMAO.
Interesting post. I didn't know about this animosity in the Black community until I started to read blogs (I'm African-Swedish myself and live in Europe) about it.
On a more serious note, let us all agree that American BM as a collective are indifferent to the welfare of BW. I do somewhat disagree with this statement Grata. I will say that society in general is indifferent to black women, and that the black community overall is indifferent to them. That includes other black women. I do know that NOT all black men have the "black women ain't shit" mentality. I have met several over the years, even those who themselves date IR. They just don't sit around angry and seething at the opposite sex like that.
--------
I don't find it funny. I find it sad that it is a tactic that far too many needy Black women are employing. If BM are worthless, then why the need to get their attention?
That is the problem Truth, I don't think ALL black men are worthless, what I do think there is a problem with SOME black men who seem to think black women are worthless and the only thing they seem to be eager to do is tear us down, and paint us ALL with the same brush, or get nasty or indignant about a women getting educated or securing a good job, and treating that as a negative as to why black women are all alone.
Unfortunately there are women in those communities who just like some Black women, refuse to take control of their bodies. Unless if a woman is being raped, she has no excuse for allowing a man who is probably not going to stick around to ejaculate inside her with his uncovered penis.
In return, a man who isnt going to stick around shouldn't go off ejaculating in just anything that offers it either. Are men not able to control where they ejaculate?
I agree whole heartedly that the problem with the black community is both black men and black women.
people mention it thus giving Black women an insight into a problem (assuming that they want to get married then it is a huge problem) and therefore giving them a chance to fix it.
How does a black women fix it, and again WHY IS THE STAT not mentioned when discussing BLACK MEN. If both are having issues, why not mention both?
Sexism is far from a Black community only problem. I wish I had the solution to make it go away, along with other maladies.
In our community it still seems to be a very big issue. More so than in other communities. We have these gender roles that are so defined, men have to be extra macho and women have to be extra chaste or even asexual. I think these gender role definitions are part of the reason why we have so many issues.
And to be fair, some Black women expect Black men to adhere to the same financial standards as white men, even though they lack many of the privileges that white men have (not discriminated against, no trust fund, no good ol boy network connections, etc).
That is definitely true. People assume I married my husband rich. When we got together we were both broke as a joke, we were both going to school and working. I am willing to admit sometimes black women forget to look at potential. The problem is for some black women is that there is a belief that if they can succeed so can black men. You give the example of the doctor marrying his secretary, they are in close proximity to each other on a daily basis. What do you think the chances are of him marrying a waitress? Or a woman on welfare with four kids? I think many times black women who succeed are expected to "marry down". We are told to look at the men without a degree or with the lesser job. How does a woman who works as a corporate attorney run into the good black male bus driver? Or the welder? Or aircraft mechanic? It seems the expectation is that she is supposed to do that. Even with that childless black women are expected to be ok with single fathers, but black men are told to run from black women with kids.
And this is exactly what I am talking about. Instead of wishing him well you found it necessary to insult the man and to question the integrity of his possible relationship.
Why should I wish him well? The man is an asshole, I determined this while he was married to a half black woman who is an asshole. He said years ago he only dates models. He looks like a turtle and it irks me that men believe they are worthy of a certain type of women, and then wonder why they get burned in the end. That is my problem with Russell Simmons. Give me some better examples. I wish Taye Diggs well. I wish Cuba Gooding Jr. well. There are tons of black men with non black women who I wish well in their relationships. Russell is an asshole, that has nothing to do with him being a black man, just him being an asshole. I feel sorry for this woman, I don't hate her. Either she is mesmerized by the money, or she truly doesn't know any better.
You couldn't let him go peaceably, yet you wonder why there is a gender war?
I never had Russell, so I never "let him go". In terms of a gender war, you act as if black men are cool with black women IR dating or getting married. Trust me some aren't always happy to see me with my husband and they are vocal about it. White women can be the same way.
Part 1
Siditty said:
Did you actually read the posts? Did you read about the stereotypes and hang ups as a result of these stereotypes that causes this? Or did you just want to believe Black women ain't shit.
Menelik’s reply:
“Black women aint shit”? That certainly isn’t a sentiment or philosophy I adhere to! I’m a milk-chocolate coloured, Black male, who just can’t see what all the fuss is about white women let alone light-skinned sisters! So, while many African-American men go bananas for Halle ‘n’ co my female ideals are the bootilicious Serena Williams and Bria Miles. Indeed, their framed pictures sit proudly atop my dressing table… alongside that of my gorgeous 4-year old daughter!
Siditty said:
I can tell you are an avid reader, but you really don’t comprehend what I write.
Menelik’s reply:
Must everyone who takes issue with you, fail to comprehend what you’ve written? Is it not possible that they actually ‘get’ what you write, and ‘know’ from what you’ve written previously (about yourself) that something, somewhere, doesn’t add up?
Siditty said:
“Mister” to me represents the Black men who fall under the "Black women ain't shit" category…The ones who believe that Black women are loud, rude, fat, fake, and only want thugs. The ones who exalt white or non-Black women as the only choice for good eligible Black men.
Menelik’s reply:
Again Siditty, I cannot understand why this subject should concern you beyond you simply finding it intriguing. Yeah, it pisses me off that my preference for dark-skinned sisters has been reduced to a virtual perversion by the mass normalisation (e.g. by hip hop “niggas”) of women of a lighter hue as love interests. But I cannot see what some Black men say, think, or feel about Black women should concern you!
Menelik Charles
London England
Part 2
Siditty said:
How did the Asian women become the… ideal for all races of men? Can Black women ever achieve this mainstream acceptance? What is weird to me…is this: Black men have mainstreamed into society in terms of what is deemed as attractive, but Black women have not. For Asians, the Asian women has been an ideal beauty for years, but the Asian male still fights to even be acknowledged in the media… I am going to say it, I am jealous: Asian women can get any race of men…
Menelik’s reply:
Yeah, its “weird” that Black men’s romantic and sexual status is higher than Black women’s in white society (jealous?) but is this really the point? Surely, you gaining racial and feminine acceptance from white men in general (isn’t your hubby enough?) is what really concerns you, Siditty - not how Black men feel or act towards Black women…in the Black community.
Just be honest, darling!
Siditty said:
In all respects, I have always dated white guys, even before my husband, I am normally attracted to white guys, as that is what I am surrounded by, and have been the majority of my life.
Where I live, I am not…considered attractive by most white guys. I am too dark and "ethnic"… in comparison to the blonde, blue eyed ideal that is prevalent… I am in the background. A few guys would be interested sexually, but I think most white men in my area aren't open to dating Black women, unless they are lighter hued. So I would probably be dateless in most situations…
Menelik’s reply:
It cannot be pleasant being ignored (in favour of white, light, Asian and Latin ladies); offered $50 for lap dance at a club; or $s for sex in a parking lot - by the very men you place on a racial pedestal. Granted, you don’t knowingly ‘down’ Black men (which I appreciate) but it peeves me off when you talk about a Black community you’ve never been a part of, or appear to pimp off the pain of Black relationships when they have nothing whatsoever to do with you, Siditty!
But here’s something that may surprise you: I actually feel a great deal of empathy for you. I mean, to imagine my own daughter feeling as you do about white men, and to be constantly seeking their racial and romantic approval as a Black woman, would pain me beyond words (I would have failed as a parent). More than that, Siditty, I am loathed to see Black people humiliating themselves in search of white people’s approval…no matter what form it takes.
It hurts.
Menelik Charles
London England
Part 3
Siditty said:
One thing about living in a predominantly white area all of your life is that you are always aware of your Blackness and don't have the luxury of just thinking of yourself without regards to your race. I wrote that on my blog too. You must have missed that day lol
Menelik’s reply:
Being aware of one’s Blackness as a child amidst a sea of white faces only makes one more determined to fit in, Siditty! I know this not from merely studying psychology but from attending a virtually all-white boarding school in the English countryside! One cannot be ‘Black’ in a vacuum. Identification with the people in one’s immediate environment is normal. Therefore, that you’ve been considered “white” most of your life by family, friends, and foes alike shows just how deep was your identification…especially with white girls upon whom you sub-consciously modelled your femininity.
But you know what Siditty? It would be wonderful if you’d simply elevate your relationship with your white husband (a decent man, I’m sure) to the status of HUMAN and attempt to live out MLK’s dream of merely judging people by the content of their character. Heaven knows, you’re ideally placed to do so. That is unless your claim to being “angry… since 1976” (Really? You strike me as subdued) is but your soul’s cry for genuine racial and personal affirmation.
Who knows?
What I do ‘know’, Siditty, is that African-American women are collectively the most beautiful on the planet. This is not to deny, however, that in terms of their feminine disposition, they often leave an awful lot to be desired…just you ask those “good” Black men desperately seeking ‘feminine’ sisters as dates, mates and life partners!
Menelik Charles
London England
Oh, so this is why I get no visitors or comments to my blog. I don't piss off enough people or strike a nerve.
LOL. Remember I have been blogging since 2005. The only reason my blog gets any play is I do discuss some controversial topics. If you read my blog, you think I hate everyone :)
I think the sooner black women and men realize that race as a social construct will always affect how the rest of the world perceives and treats us even in our post-Obama brave new world, the sooner we can get it together and keep our communities together. It doesn't matter if we grew up in white, Asian, black or Latino neighborhoods. There's SOMETHING about being black!
Your post was on point!!!!!!! I agree.
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Can you cite a reliable source for the statistics on unmarried black women and unmarried black men?
You can go to the US census website and obtain that information. On some of the charts you have to add it up, but it is there. The problem is that the Census starting in 1996 I think stopped doing more detailed stats on marriage.
Anon said:
Nah. It's Menelik Charles, the one who posts from England. What gave him away was the 'darlings', 'sweethearts' and his use of an 's where we would use a 'z'.
Menelik replies:
Nothing gave me away sir/madam as I was not in hiding! As someone involved in a range of issues from psychoanalysis to forensic psychology, believe me, I know how to disguise my own handwritting.
Menelik Charles
London England
Something happened in the Black community where SOME BM and BW just stopped respecting each other. BM and BW do not own each other, but we should at least recognize each others humanity.
This is so true!!!!!!
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Siddity, I have noted that those guys who want to bring toxicity into black women's forums often will accuse the blog hosts of not allowing differing views. It's just another manipulative ploy to try and get black wonen to ACCEPT condescension and disrespect.
He did go there quick. I guess he thought I wasn't willing to debate. I really am willing. I try to be anyway. I try to limit the amount of censorship on my blog, even though sometimes I have to censor.
Do you mind if I use this video clip for a post I am planning about opposition tactics that black women need to be aware of?
Go for it.
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Why don't you stop playing coy and get to the point of WHATEVER it is you are hinting at?!
What do you think I am hinting at? I don't hint too often, I will just say it.
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Check out this blog. I think you would like it. http://www.blackisbeautiful.se/
It is linked to the side. I also have this blog linked. It is run by a black man. I absolutely love it!!!
Post a Comment On: Black Women's Interracial Relationship Circle
BWF said:
"I find white and Latin men more attractive then black men".
LorMarie said:
"I co-sign 300% Especially Latin men...Black men generally just don't appeal to me as far as looks and sex appeal".
Menelik replies:
I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!
I await an interesting, though possibly, convoluted answer, my BAP lol
Menelik Charles
London England
May 1, 2009 2:27 AM
@LorMarie
I'm still awaiting your answer babe!
I got the impression that there is no real monolithic group called BLACK MEN or BLACK WOMEN. My personal experiences were that there were VARIOIUS groups who could be termed African American who had different cultures and outlooks.
Ehav,
This is very true. The problem in America is that we are painted as this one big homogenous group. We do vary by religion, region, etc. But because we have always been treated as one group by ourselves and others, we ultimately have this connection, where we feel that we have undergone the same struggle and obstacles, because to a certain extent, this is true.
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Also, if a husband ever disrespected his wife she had a right to call all the men his family and her family. They would show up in the middle of the night, wake him up, and have a stern talk with him. If he listened and treated his wife better they would leave him alone and life would go on. If he did not listen they would show up again, in the middle of the night, and let’s say they would not be so nice. They would continue to show up as many times as it took for him to get his act together.
I think at one point or another many black communities were like this, but it doesn't seem to be that way anymore.
Are the problems being mentioned about Black Men an overall problem, or is it isolated to a percentage of black men?
I my opinion it is a percentage of black men, no where near all.
Also, is it possible that terms like Black Men and Black Women are so inclusive as terms that it avoids the reality that there are PEOPLE that are being lumped together with those who they stand diametrically opposed to?
Most definitely.
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Interesting post. I didn't know about this animosity in the Black community until I started to read blogs (I'm African-Swedish myself and live in Europe) about it.
Pa Ibou,
Do you think this exists in Sweden or the rest of Europe?
@ Siditty,
the least I can do is applaud you for having an open forum for debate.
Bravo!
Menelik Charles
London England
Siditty: You mean animosity between Black people in Europe? I don't think so, not in Sweden at least. But Black people here are Africans (Gambians, Somalians, Eritreans, Ethiopians, Ivorians etc) and some of these groups often marry with their own people because of cultural traditions. But Sweden also have a liberal attitude towards interracial marriage and there are many mixed people like me here. But it's not perfect here - far from it.
I can't say I understand when I read that Black women aren't apprechiated for their beauty. If I turn on the TV all I see is beautiful Black women in music videos. Women that men all over the world drool over. I think many Swedes consider Black people beautiful and "exotic" and that is sometimes a problem for me since I know that Black culture is much more then being "exotic" and "sexy".
I can't talk about American males but many Swedish men have a desire for Asian women and I'm not sure those women enjoy being looked as at sex objects all the time. Because I feel that those men aren't interested in Asian culture at all but instead they see something in Asian women that they don't see in Swedish women. Swedish women are very progressive and equal (well almost) to men here so many men prefer a more subordinated woman.
PS: I'm not sure you understand what I mean here since English is not my first language. I wish I could explain this in Swedish instead ;-) Hopefully I don't offend anyone with my thoughts here.
I am always amazed at your patience, Siditty. It must be exhausting with all of this back and forth. I'm tired just reading some of these provocative retorts by anonymous/Menelik.
I personally do not care about what BM think, feel or who they choose to date. People have a right to think what they want, but it's always fascinating to me how some of these, I assume BM posters want to bully the women out of their perspectives. Is freedom of thought such a threat to them that they feel the need to do this?
Funky Star Kitty: Unfortunately it's the same with males all over the world I guess. If you would here what some WM call WW who date BM, you would be shocked. That a WM can date a BM is of course fully accepted though...I know WM here that wouldn't touch a WW if she had been with a Brother.
Although I said that Sweden is a liberal country when it comes to interracial dating theres alot of double standards here. Is it the same in USA?
When I read on some blogs (not this one Siditty) I feel like it's only BM that are against interracial dating (when it comes to black women doing so). That is not my experience at all here in Europe. A WM that takes a stroll with a BW can do so without getting any looks here. But if I am going out with a WW I often get stares from WM.
But it's getting better here and as I said Sweden is a liberal country when it comes to interracial dating. Although it's far from perfect.
Although I said that Sweden is a liberal country when it comes to interracial dating there's a lot of double standards here. Is it the same in USA?I've been to London, France and Spain and have witnessed the same thing as far as seeing WM with BW. I would say that here in the States, some WM would feel intimidated if they knew that a WW they were interested in had been with a BM. It sounds like an insecurity/inferiority complex.I guess it depends on where you live in the US in terms of what types of reactions you get from people. I live in the South, so if we go into rural areas of Georgia, we attract A LOT of attention. I do know that in the UK, if a WW dates an Indian man, she is called a "Chutney Mary". I was told that it is a derogatory term. BM and some Redneck WM have been equally as aggressive towards WM and BW where I live. Ignorance is everywhere. I guess I always had "The grass is greener" mentality about Europe being this colorblind society.
That certainly isn’t a sentiment or philosophy I adhere to! I’m a milk-chocolate coloured, Black male, who just can’t see what all the fuss is about white women let alone light-skinned sisters! So, while many African-American men go bananas for Halle ‘n’ co my female ideals are the bootilicious Serena Williams and Bria Miles.I believe you are in London. I think there might be a different perspective in beauty ideals, but I think also in your part of the world IR relationships are at an all time high as well. Here in America there is a history of beauty ideals within the black community that leave darker hued women at a disadvantage. Here in the South we have a saying that men prefer "light, bright, and close to white". I knew many a black men who aspired to have women with "good hair" and "bright eyes". We have a history here of paper bag tests for admittance into historically black colleges and universities as well as sororities, fraternities, social organizations, and into some folks homes. We like to pretend it has no impact on how we see ourselves here, but in reality it has a very strong impact and even though that is history, that history is lingering, but now we are just calling it "preference". There is a reason the majority of "black beauties" in our society look like Halle, Mariah, Paula Patton, and the like and less like Bria Myles.
But you know what Siditty? It would be wonderful if you’d simply elevate your relationship with your white husband (a decent man, I’m sure) to the status of HUMAN and attempt to live out MLK’s dream of merely judging people by the content of their character.
What makes you think I haven't. We have been together 10 years. At this point looks are secondary. I don't wake up in the morning looking at my husband thinking "wow, look at my white husband". When he leaves the toilet seat up and I fall in, my frustration has nothing to do with his whiteness.
That is unless your claim to being “angry… since 1976” (Really? You strike me as subdued) is but your soul’s cry for genuine racial and personal affirmation.
This is a secret, don't tell anyone. I am really not all that angry. At least not all the time. But it is true, I was born in 1976.
What I do ‘know’, Siditty, is that African-American women are collectively the most beautiful on the planet. This is not to deny, however, that in terms of their feminine disposition, they often leave an awful lot to be desired…just you ask those “good” Black men desperately seeking ‘feminine’ sisters as dates, mates and life partners!
Why is it assumed black women aren't feminine? I am not what you would consider "traditionally feminine", but I think like most women I have my moments. I think in all honestly that black women haven't had the opportunity in our society to be "traditionally feminine". We like black people in all aspects of life, have had to create our own way, and that many times means falling outside the traditional definitions.
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I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!
In American society white and latina always trumps black women in the looks department, even if they are not as attractive in reality. That is how beauty standards in American works.
What I am about to say is my humble opinion, and I could be wrong. As I mentioned the culture I grew up with is a little different, not perfect just different.
The reason that I think that BW are often talked to as if they are the source of the problem and the solution when it comes to the sex issue, the single issue, single motherhood, etc. is because there are more women stating that these things are an issue than men. I.e. in various societies women have much more to lose from mistakes in these areas than men do. So if more women are complaining about being single than men, the perception is like The men aren't making a big fuss about it, so the problem and the solution must rest with the women.Of course the rise in female bashing and also male bashing videos and blogs and such are somewhat changing the landscape of the matter. I think that quite a bit of that is people trying to get press on their sites or they are simple attention starved. If there is a problem that NEEDS a solution, there is only one way to deal with that. That is to get out there in the trenches and fix it. I once felt this way, i.e. that there were some issues amongst BW and BM in those regards.
When I lived in Houston and was studying at Prairie View A&M University, I used to complain about it, and one day someone convinced me to get out there and do something about. He convinced me to tutor high school kids in the Upward Bound program. As a part of tutoring I used to talk to both AA girls and boys, as well as Latino girls and boys about my experiences in life and how they should direct their lives. My main focus was the issues between males and females. I did that every week for 5 years. For a long time I thought I wasn't make any progress in my mission to try and make a difference in that regard. Then I found out that several of the students I used to teach took the advice I was giving them and did something with it. One young boy made a complete 180. I thought he was completely lost. Yet, years later when I visited PV he was going to college there, and his demeanour was completely different. Several of the other students thanked for being so dedicated to working with them when everyone else left after a few weeks.
If you REALLY want to change the way AA women are treated and view, there is a real SIMPLE solution. Get to the children of all races. If you can convince them early on what the correct ways are you can cut them off before society gets them. During my younger years I was called up as a speaker on various topics and I saw firsthand how you can change things by simply getting to the kids. I spoke at schools that were white, black, mixed, etc. Sometimes you have to forget about the adults and simply get to those kids.
I believe Grata is correct in that African American women and African American women have two different struggles in America. Solving one doesn't exactly solve the other. YET, if parties from both sides see each other's struggle as valid like their own then one may find men and woman on both sides who by default fight for the other side. I also agree that it may be possible that AA women need to focus more on their own struggles than with AA men. Yet, the problem I see with this is in order to fight a war so to speak you need an army. Armies are made up of Generals, Captains, privates, etc. The common focus and battle plans filter from the top down.
If these issues, being talked about, are somewhat common for ALL BW, then the only ones who can organize, lead, and fight the war for change are BW. If this is really a matter of BW against EVERYONE in the world then that is the only way that such a war can be won.
Those who are allies from the other sides will make themselves known once the see that there is a united battle cry similar to their own. Yet, without a visible fighting force and battle cry, how can one rally people around a cause?
My belief is that the solutions to some of the real and perceived problems amongst the various AA ethnic groups will only come when the following happens:
1) Likeminded AA men and AA women form PHYSICAL communities together. Said communities can also include non-AA who are like minded and are down for the cause.
2) Likeminded AA men and AA women cut off and exclude BM and BW who stand diametrically opposed to their collective morality. (What ever that is.)
3) Married AA men and AA women promote marriage, at younger ages for their children. This is within the context of the PHYSICAL communities I mentioned earlier.
4) Married AA men and women form networks to try and assist their single friends and family in finding other singles. (I am using an example from my community the Jewish community. There are numerous originations of married people who helps singles find other singles. It is a BIG thing, especially here in Israel.)
This by no means is to say that non-African Americans who are liked minded would be excluded. This is simply to narrow who is being talked about down.
An example of this is when some members of the Vice Lords gang decided that enough was enough. They got tired of seeing their friends and family die in the gang culture. They decided that they wanted to turn things around and they changed their gang into a community upliftment organization renaming themselves the Conservative Vice Lords. When they did this and people started to see the changes they were making in their community, all kind of people started to try and help them. In an attempt at softening their public image, the Vice Lord leaders changed the gang's name to "Conservative Vice Lords", which today serves as the foundation of the entire Vice Lord Nation. They developed new logos and advertised themselves as a community outreach group. They went as far as to petition for a community outreach chapter named "Conservative Vice Lord Incorporated. This attempt was successful enough that the group began to receive a large amount of positive publicity from various politicians and community leaders. CVL, Inc. established a number of recreational areas for neighbourhood children which were then used as meeting houses after they had closed for the day.
In 1970, three Vice Lord leaders, David Dawley, Alfonso Alfred and Bobby Gore, applied for a $275,000 grant from the Rockefeller Foundation. The Rockefeller Foundation approved the grant. At the same time, the gang was successfully consolidating smaller neighbourhood gangs (including the Cherokees, the Morphines, the Commanches, the Continental Pimps, the Imperial Chaplains, the Clovers, the Cobras, and the Braves) into the Vice Lord Nation.
Of course their attempt eventually failed because some of their members would not let go of the gang aspect. Thus the reason why I believe that non-compliant types have to be excommunicated. Yet, there is a lot to be learned from what some of them were trying to accomplish. If former gang members go do it, imagine what could happen if others tried something similar.
I can't say I understand when I read that Black women aren't apprechiated for their beauty. If I turn on the TV all I see is beautiful Black women in music videos. Women that men all over the world drool over. I think many Swedes consider Black people beautiful and "exotic" and that is sometimes a problem for me since I know that Black culture is much more then being "exotic" and "sexy".
Here anything but black is exotic, and the closer to white you look while all the while being exotic, the better. Exotic in America is asian or hispanic. Black women are seen as a different species all together.
Now there are the stereotypes we are loose and put out for any and everything or that we are wild in bed. Then there is the other stereotype, and we see this in media a lot we are asexual or "momma" types.
ecause I feel that those men aren't interested in Asian culture at all but instead they see something in Asian women that they don't see in Swedish women. Swedish women are very progressive and equal (well almost) to men here so many men prefer a more subordinated woman.
We have this here in America as well. Not all, but many men here like the concept of quiet, docile, asian women. Most asian women probably don't fit into this stereotype, but this stereotype works well for those interested in IR, as asian women and white men are the largest number of IR pairings here. Asian folks here are considered safe, all the stereotypes about them tend to be "positive". They do well in school, the are thin, they are successful. The women are all in shape and small and delicate.
I'm not sure you understand what I mean here since English is not my first language. I wish I could explain this in Swedish instead ;-) Hopefully I don't offend anyone with my thoughts here.
Your English is wonderful.
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I am always amazed at your patience, Siditty. It must be exhausting with all of this back and forth. I'm tired just reading some of these provocative retorts by anonymous/Menelik.
Funkystarkitty,
I dont think Menelik is all that bad, even though he has his assumptions, like most of us do, I do think he is willing to listen and at least is trying to be fair, even if in some instances he does come off that way.
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f you would here what some WM call WW who date BM, you would be shocked. That a WM can date a BM is of course fully accepted though...I know WM here that wouldn't touch a WW if she had been with a Brother.
In America it is the same thing. There are black women who seethe at the thought of a black man going to a non black women. There are black men who won't touch black women who date IR with a ten foot pole, but these same men will drool after a woman who is a product of IR, and the beauty ideals amongst blacks seem to lean towards those women. I don't know, but I suspect some white men don't like the concept of dating a women who dates IR, much like there are white women who don't understand why a white man would even consider dating a black women, especially if the white male is considered educated and attractive. There is animosity on all sides, many times for varying reasons.
A WM that takes a stroll with a BW can do so without getting any looks here.
You get looks here, usually from black men, at least in my experience, but the weird thing is I mostly get it from bm who have a non black women on their arm. Maybe it is confusion to them non black women are better options, and maybe if they see us, they see me (looking obviously black) with my features, and wonder why a white guy would go there.
Being aware of one’s Blackness as a child amidst a sea of white faces only makes one more determined to fit in, Siditty! I know this not from merely studying psychology but from attending a virtually all-white boarding school in the English countryside! One cannot be ‘Black’ in a vacuum. Identification with the people in one’s immediate environment is normal. Therefore, that you’ve been considered “white” most of your life by family, friends, and foes alike shows just how deep was your identification…especially with white girls upon whom you sub-consciously modelled your femininity.
It wasn't subconscious, I was well aware as a child I wanted to be a white girl. I have stated on this blog before I don't think I truly knew a black people outside of my family until I got to college. Until then my world outside my immediate home and an occasional week or two at grandparents during the summer was white. The few instances I did have with black folks my age was negative. I was made fun of for talking and acting "white" and I really never understood why. I just thought they were mean. I thought black folks in general were mean and my family was the exception. I think I had issues with other black women for a long time because most of the teasing and ridicule came from black girls growing up, where as most of the black boys I knew were indifferent, only a couple thought it was fun to tease me.
I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!
I await an interesting, though possibly, convoluted answer, my BAP lol--Menalik
There's no need to wonder about that since I am a heterosexual woman talking about my preference for men. First, let me repeat my preference.
What I find beautiful depends on what I'm looking at:
I am a black woman who finds latin men to be the most attractive men on the planet. I happened to watch Sex in the City last night, and I am still in an orgasmic trance over that sexy latin guy in the shower, LOL. In my eyes, they are more attractive than white men or black men.
I also happen to believe that chocolate skinned children black children are the cutest (more so than light skinned children). More so than white, mixed, or latino children.
Blacks with dark brown skin have the best skin (often clear with no blemishes).
Asians and blacks age very well while whites do not (male or female)
While I believe that black women are beautiful, I will not put them (or white women, or Asian women, or latinas) above any other woman.
I love how black women doll themselves up, our well-defined butts, lips, etc. I also happen to love our singing voices, etc.
I also think that white women like Angelina Jolie or Liv Tyler are beautiful.
What I gather from you is that you are under an illusion that black men are highly desired by all women. When you come a across black women who don't see them as desirable, it shocks you. In fact, there is more of an assumption that all women should desire white men than black men. EVEN I RESENT THAT ASSUMPTION, LOL. I find some white men sexually attractive, but white male worship is annoying. And I see this worship among many women (mostly nonblack women).
So my theory is, black men are not as desirable as they think and black women are more desirable than some think.
So in answer to your question, men and women are different and should be held to different standards in my book. There is no reason why a heterosexual woman should apply the same standard to men and women.
Now if you are secure with yourself, you'll take my preference as my preference having no bearing on your self worth. But if you are so bothered by my preference for latin or white men (when it comes to physical features only...NOT PERSONALITY), perhaps you should ask yourself why?
If anyone goes over to the Rocky or any of the other black woman bashing boards, you will see that I made some pretty strong comments, LOL. Then again, if you go to some white racist boards, you will see that I made some strong comments there as well. It boils down to this, if a black man verbally attacks black women or if a white or other nonblack person attacks blacks in general, I'm going to attack them. This Menalik Charles (and the others) could not even handle a return of fire, LOL. So they foolishly search the net for comments I made and post them.
I have no ill will toward black men, whites, latins, etc. It just so happens that I find light skin/Euro/Latin features to be very attractive on men. I don't go crying when I hear men stating that they don't find bw attractive since there are plenty who do. I'm just looking for respect. Menalik and his ilk simply want black women to have eyes only for them,LOL. Well, I don't.
Lastly, I should declare that Seal and Heidi Klum are one of my favorite celebrity couples. It's obvious that they have a beautiful relationship that only a sad individual would knock.
OK. I see how you arrived at the 70% statistic. Only 31% of black people between 15 and death are married and living with their spouse.
Off topic.
Has anyone heard of this book -Slumming by Chad Heap. About Middle class Whites in the early
20th Century going into Black neighbourhoods for entertainment.
I came across this BBC program interviewing the Author of the book. It would be fascinating if it weren't offensive.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/ta/
"I do somewhat disagree with this statement Grata. I will say that society in general is indifferent to black women, and that the black community overall is indifferent to them. That includes other black women. I do know that NOT all black men have the "black women ain't shit" mentality."
I said, Black men as a collective. Definitely there are individuals taking care of the women in their lives. But there is no collective BM conscience with the BW's welfare in mind. Look at any high profile incidents. BW will overwhelmingly support the cause, when a BW is victimized you don't get the same response from BM.
And if one is attempted to cite the Imus incident. Well, look what happened. You had high profile BM jumping in and further insulting the girls. That's as much as you are going to get from the BM.
"2) Likeminded AA men and AA women cut off and exclude BM and BW who stand diametrically opposed to their collective morality. (What ever that is.)"
Ehav,
Pretty pragmatic approach to the solution. I like it.
No matter what people say, the Black Community still exists. There are those who think because they have somehow assimilated, the BC is dead. But when election time comes around, suddenly every one is talking about the Black Community.
It exists and has functions like any other. It is like a living thing and requires alot of nurturing. It is the job of those that come from it to do the work. Not the job of charitable whites. Marrying out does not absolve you from that responsibility.
And trying to wage a campaign of calling it deceased does not make it go away. The tbt's of this world are the real danger to that community, the attempt to sell the individualist philosophy to get away from the responsibility yet when their asses get ripped they run back and expect the unconditional support from especially women of their community.
We need to call these hypocrites and opportunists out.
A person that claims individualism and chooses to leave the community and there after have no contribution should never fall back to it when he needs it. Its very simple really.
And like someone else said, marrying out does not mean that one cannot nurture their community. And this is where you see the real motives of BM in America. I know many African men that marry foreigners and bring them back and they becom part of the community. Not American Black men. ABM tend to marry out to get out then suddenly they start acting more individualist than whites but once good old racism comes after them they run back for support.
These are real parasites feeding of both Whites and blacks. What do they have to give to anyone?
PS: I'm not sure you understand what I mean here since English is not
my first language. I wish I could explain this in Swedish instead ;-)
Hopefully I don't offend anyone with my thoughts here.
_________________
Pa Ibou, don't worry, you said it perfectly. I have been fascinated
with Swedish culture forever.
I particularly enjoyed your take on relationships between the different
racial & ethnic groups. Men seem to enjoy passive women everywhere,
even outer space!
I'm officially screwed.
How did the Asian women become the… ideal for all races of men?
__________________________
I don't know Siditty, but they benefit greatly in the romance
department. Every single Asian woman I know is very dominant...way more
attitudy than most black women I know, and because they have the
'submissive' thing working for them, they get the benefit of the doubt,
even when really bitchy.
Black women are just the opposite. I know some black women who are
super-sweet, but somehow they are perceived as 'big black castrating
bitches' if they utter the slightest disagreement. So I've decided, if
I'm going to be labelled as a 'big black castrating bitch', I might as
well be extra-bitchy.
My other theory is way more controversial...
Quite frankly, I believe the real reason white men subconsciously are
so fascinated with Asian women is because they think she'll probably be
impressed by the size of their penis. Again, the opposite is true for
black women. OBVIOUSLY black women have slept with well-hung mandigos,
so there is no way a WM can impress her with his dick.
I knew many a black men who aspired to have women with "good hair" and
"bright eyes".
__________________________
Siditty, I think a lot of bw have that same desire. I'll say it again...even though there is a lot of tension between bw & bm, they suffer from the same exact thing - an inferiority complex about black female beauty. Same coin, different sides.
Black women are seen as a different species all together.
_______________________________
subhuman
Being aware of one’s Blackness as a child amidst a sea of white faces
only makes one more determined to fit in, Siditty! I know this not from
merely studying psychology but from attending a virtually all-white
boarding school in the English countryside! One cannot be ‘Black’ in a
vacuum. Identification with the people in one’s immediate environment
is normal.
_______________________________________
Not really. I think 'some' people are that way. I'm more apt to point out how fly my blackness is in a sea of white people. And I'm frequently around white people who are super jealous of my skin and my hair. I have way too much of an ego about my black beauty to do something wimpy like try to 'fit in' as you say. And I'm fat too. I sure do have a lotta nerve.
I will say that society in general is indifferent to black women, and that the black community overall is indifferent to them. That includes other black women.
__________________________________
I talk about this until I'm blue in the face. Black women are the last people to support other black women. But they will drop everything to help some undeserving, untalented male. This is my biggest pet peeve as a filmmaker who needs the support of other people to make things happen. I've learned the hard way that I cannot depend on other black women, because they would rather see me making the same conventional life choices they did. It's always a case of...who does she think she is?'
So I'm on my own. And my projects take a lot longer to jump-off as a result. I felt so much resentment at one time in my life I couldn't do much, especially when I saw colleague-after-MALE-colleague easily getting their projects made with loads of help from black women.
I was just on a film forum the other day, and this black chick had the nerve to say the we (BM & BW) are all the same...equal and shit. This really fucking gets under my skin. Her job was to placate and comfort the BM from me, the truthteller, aka. 'castrating black bitch'.
I don't like wimpy BW who put men before themselves. I don't care what color the man is. It makes me so bloody angry when women VOLUNTEER to be second-class citizens.
"I'm going to be labelled as a 'big black castrating bitch', I might as
well be extra-bitchy."
Right on.
"Every single Asian woman I know is very dominant...way more
attitudy than most black women I know, and because they have the
'submissive' thing working for them, they get the benefit of the doubt,
even when really bitchy."
The Asian women thing is really fascinating. I used to think people were hating on Asian women when they talked about their little game. But I now take mostly science classes and work with Majority of them and ofcourse it isn't accurate to generalize but there is a consistent type of Asian woman character that I see around alot.
The worst case I have is a workmate who is always smiles with men and even her voice tone changes when she is around guys but extremely bitchy when it comes to women. I got to the point of avoiding contact with her. She took my passiveness for weakness and twice she crossed the line and I literary blasted her.
I take pride in keeping my cool in person (I run rampant on online) but when I lose it I try to make it as memorable as possible to the person. She now treats me with the atmost respect. She may not like me but she knows that I bite hard.
Every semester I meet the same type of Asian woman who underestimates me and tries to dominate me (imagine that). People tell me I have naive look, inotherwords I look stupid.
Most Asians I have encountered believe in their intellectual superiority, which I am still not yet convinced by simply because I am toe to toe with them and better at times.
This type of character is always condescending and tries to make me the group's servant. Its incredible. I usually let them go on to see how far they can go. Usually after the first test they realize that I have an idea about brain function and use and they are slightly more respectful. Some do eventually cross that line by which I give a well prepared tongue lashing.
Its is amazing, its as if I am meeting the same person all over again.
Because I know what people's first impression of me in an advanced Math class is, I expect them to be alittle flat footed around me so the behaviour doesn't offend me as much. If I were to be offended, I would be blasting people all the time including instructors.
"So I'm on my own. And my projects take a lot longer to jump-off as a result. I felt so much resentment at one time in my life I couldn't do much, especially when I saw colleague-after-MALE-colleague easily getting their projects made with loads of help from black women."
BW are truly on their own. Its would be wise for many to take on an individualist culture. You will do better for yourself looking out for your own interests than expecting anything from BM or society. That is why BW need to get out of the race loyalty crap. It only holds you back. Just deal with like minded people of all backgrounds. You will make much better progress for yourslef than trying to serve a community that will never appreciate.
The tbt's of this world are the real danger to that community, the attempt to sell the individualist philosophy to get away from the responsibility yet when their asses get ripped they run back and expect the unconditional support from especially women of their community.
Stop pretending that you know me or my philosophy. You know nothing about me or where I live or what I do. The only things that you know about me are what you read on these blogs.
Speaking of what I read, I am not the one abandoning my country to chase after white men. First you come to America and when you find out that they don't want you, you state that you are going to Germany to find a husband. How pathetic of a woman does one have to be to keep relocating to find a man interested in them?
Don't seem to concerned about your own local tribesman, now do you? Take your hypocritical ass to Germany and go torture some poor German sucker.
I personally have come from a point of being extremely sympathetic to the BM's struggle to now not seeing him at all. And I mean in everyday life, I don't acknowledge his presence when I meet him or involve myself with a friendly one with a little chit chat. Prejudiced? Maybe but I think more indifferent. Why accomodate that which seems to have no use on a larger scale.
Oh no, Grata is no longer gonna look out for BM! What are we gonna do? I think we will make it. LOL, why do you think you are valuable to anybody? Who are you except some foreign student who thinks she understands the complexities of a society that she doesn't.
And never be fooled for one bit by thinking that the individualist culture you seem to promote will be your saving grace.
Humanity will forever judge a man by his cultural background. Some of you think you can marry yourself into dignity. It never happens. A man that doesn't contribute to his own immediate community is despised everywhere he goes. Its like a curse.
Unlike you, I don't need everyone in the world to love me. People have always disliked Blacks no matter what we did/do and I don't expect that to change.
I know it must really kill you to see other people (especially Black men) living happy lives that don't involve you. Sucks to be you, doesn't it.
And who are you to give this advice when you yourself stated that you are gonna chase after German men and beg them to notice you.
Whites have a largely individualistic culture but there is concern for the greater white community.
More false White man worship. There are plenty of rundown trailer parks and downtrodden White communities in the USA that would disagree. White men will kill other Whites to make a buck (remember the company that knew about the Peanut Butter but still put it on the market anyway).
BM like you think you can go to school, make a decent living (from a job created by the WM) marry a WW and think you have made it LOL!
It's the American Dream. Except for the White woman part, which your own insecurity keeps leading you to dwell on. I know, you are horrified of ever having to compete with them for any man.
But your own distant cousins are busy shooting themselves in the hood.
And what the f__k am I supposed to do about it?
Those same whites you believe you are at the same level with still judge and despise you by what you left behind.
Some do and some don't. I avoid those who do, and engage with those who don't. Unlike you, I don't need 100% acceptance everywhere I go all the time to in order to be someplace.
You should hear the back room jokes made of Tiger Woods and his reluctance to help his own people (even though he publically denied them to the applause of whites).
Once again, why are you so fixated on the almighty White man's opinion? Is Tiger supposed to give up his Golf career to go stop the Bloods and Crips from warring, so all White men can like him, LOL.
When Tiger appears at a tournament, those same White men make more money than they would have if he didn't appear. Tiger is richer than them, he has a prettier wife than them, and more fame than them and more victories than them. Why the hell should he care what they say?
And who is Tiger's people? He is a mix of many things, why should one side be able to claim him over others?
You can run but you can't hide. On their part, whites take care of their communities but for middle class BM, that is beneath them ?
Poor black neighborhoods are as much the responsibility of middle and upper class Black men as is poor White Appalachians are the responsibility of the people who live in Beverly Hills.
Spare me the guilt trips, I am fully onto you. You don't give a flying you know what about the Black Community. You just want Black men to serve as your slaves while you chase after White men. After all, it is going to be pretty tough to convince White men to take you when Black men won't.
In return, a man who isnt going to stick around shouldn't go off ejaculating in just anything that offers it either. Are men not able to control where they ejaculate?
Someone else hit it on the head. Men who impregnate women and leave and don't take care of the children are complete scumbags. No one is denying that.
The point is that the woman has more to lose than the man. The woman is the one who has to walk around pregnant. A woman with a man's baby loses much of her value on the dating/mating market to other men. And if the man does not stick around, no amount of name-calling is going to make up for the hard life that the mother will have to endure.
Women's best weapon is to make sure they let the right men enter them, or at the very least, use protection of some sort. If they don't, then they need to look in the mirror first before they start doling out blame.
I'm just looking for respect.
I've got to give it up to you, that is your best post ever.
That's what I like to see, do your thing if it makes you happy and apologize to no one.
2) Likeminded AA men and AA women cut off and exclude BM and BW who stand diametrically opposed to their collective morality. (What ever that is.)
It will never work. Why? Because many of the people that are "cut off" are the people that are best positioned to help with the cause. Look at OJ Simpson 1. Why didn't Blacks cut him off? It's not because Blacks are extra forgiving or Black women support Black men more or any of that jazz. The real reason is that OJ Simpson provided Black America with a forum (i.e White America was listening en masse) that they would not have had otherwise.
Blacks who supported OJ didn't do it out of love for OJ, they did because they know if the system can take down a man with fame and fortune such as OJ had, then what chance would any of them have without the same fame and fortune? Same thing with all the people speaking out in favor of Kobe, and R. Kelly and Michael Vick.
Millions of other less fortunate Black men and women go through the system without a peep because no one is watching (or no one with power is watching). So those men who have seemingly left give the community it's best opportunity of being heard.
LOL! BM of America don't owe me anything. Like I said, I have no desire to get to know you lot. I am just calling you out on what you owe the American BW. Obviously you don't like that. Oh well....
No one here wants you either. Like I said, everybody is entitled to what the law gives them and common human decency. Beyond that if you are not my family or if you are not sleeping with me, I have nothing to do with the quality of your life. Make peace with it or not, the choice is yours. If you still think I owe you something then call Equifax and have them put it on my credit report.
Again Siditty, I cannot understand why this subject should concern you beyond you simply finding it intriguing.
Because they want to be queen bee. Whether they want Black men or not personally, they want us to worship them and chase after them. Then they can have the power of selecting or rejecting.
When Black men go with non-Black women, it is a double whammy for Black women. First it takes away the ability for them to reject Black men to be with non-Black if Black men are not after them to begin with. And it also gives the world the impression that the other women are better since Black men are picking them over Black women.
That is why many of the IR bloggers talk so much about Black men. They will hide their motives behind some psuedo-concern for the Black community at large (chasing after a White man and lecturing others on the Black community?)
The truth is Black men are needed solely to increase the dating/mating value of Black women to other men. After all, what man would want a woman that nobody else wants (or at least is perceived as unwanted), especially by those that are closest to her?
@LorMarie,
The question you eventually did me the honour of answering was put to you on three other ocasions on two different blogs. I guess you had to answer it here lest people see you for what you truly are!
Anyway, I shall respond to you in due course, and at length. Gotta pick up a four-year girl who needs, wants and loves her father.
I shall not deny her my presence in her life by wasting it on you at this point!
Soon come!
Menelik Charles
London England
@Truth b Told,
bro. You know, you are always the voice of reason when people decide to go off on some anti-Black male tangent!
I'm glad these 'sisters' got your rationalist, humanist juices flowing again!
Menelik Charles
London England
Has anyone heard of this book -Slumming by Chad Heap. About Middle class Whites in the early 20th Century going into Black neighbourhoods for entertainment.
I have heard about it, and my thoughts on the book were that it was racist. You had to "slum" to hear music you wanted because you dared ventured out into a black neighborhood. This dude made it sound like he was a anthropologist observing and watching some long lost tribe in the jungle, and they just happened to entertain him. He should have stopped "slumming".
-----------------------
But there is no collective BM conscience with the BW's welfare in mind. Look at any high profile incidents. BW will overwhelmingly support the cause, when a BW is victimized you don't get the same response from BM.
Very true, I can't argue that, at least not here in America.
And if one is attempted to cite the Imus incident. Well, look what happened. You had high profile BM jumping in and further insulting the girls. That's as much as you are going to get from the BM.
D.L. Hughley and the like can go kiss those women's asses. He makes my stomach turn. I was even more insulted when CNN gave him an "entertainment news show". That wascancelled quick.
-------------------------
And who is Tiger's people? He is a mix of many things, why should one side be able to claim him over others?
Couldn't this be said for most black folks in America with slave ancestry. Yes he is half asian, but he is claiming white and native american too, and black.
------------------
The point is that the woman has more to lose than the man. The woman is the one who has to walk around pregnant. A woman with a man's baby loses much of her value on the dating/mating market to other men. And if the man does not stick around, no amount of name-calling is going to make up for the hard life that the mother will have to endure.
True she does have more to lose, but aren't the black men who are making these babies lose their value in the dating market as well? Men with children were a red flag to me when dating. It was a double edged sword, on one hand if they do take care of the kid or kids, more than likely they have a huge financial burden and their free time is occupied. On the other hand, a man with kids who doesn't take care of them comes off as irresponsible and not willing to commit. If you can't commit to your own flesh and blood, how could you to someone you just met?
Because they want to be queen bee. Whether they want Black men or not personally, they want us to worship them and chase after them. Then they can have the power of selecting or rejecting.
Do you seriously believe this? I will tell you this, black don't worship me. White men don't worship me. No race of man worships me.
Black women want what other women have as a collective, a community in which they their is no finger pointing at them, blaming them for all the ills of that community. We want respect. Not to be called a nappy headed ho by a white man and then have a black man co sign on the insult. We want to know that when we are raped by a fellow black man, you guys won't rush to his side and offer him a college scholarship after being arrested for making an unconscious underage black girl give him oral sex. Or tell an underage girl she was too fast after it is discovered a 38 year old black man is pissing on her. When a black woman is raped and tortured by white folks, we want Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to get angry and rally the troops like they do when a black man is harmed.
If that is worship. Then, yes, I guess black women want to be worshipped. (I can't wait for this part of this comment to be twisted and "proof" of how selfish black women are)
We are the only race of women where the men will publicly denounce us as a whole. We are the only race of women who seem to advance career wise and academically ahead of our men, and it is seem as a negative instead of a positive. We are the only race of women in which the men openly disrespect and despise us and then want us to accept this disrespect.
When Black men go with non-Black women, it is a double whammy for Black women. First it takes away the ability for them to reject Black men to be with non-Black if Black men are not after them to begin with. And it also gives the world the impression that the other women are better since Black men are picking them over Black women.
It isn't the world that has that impression, it is black men who have that impression. Black men think and embrace non blackness. Even in black women. Many men want women with long straight flowing hair, light skin, and blue, green, or hazel eyes. Black men dating non black women has no bearing on me or my life. I don't have to denounce black men in order to justify my marriage or past relationships. I already knew black men didn't want me, it just seemed they didn't want anyone else to want me either. I can count on my fingers how many times a black man has actually approached me in a respectful manner. I would need way more digits to count the white and hispanic men. I don't think I am beautiful by any means, truth be told, I ain't cute, but I know it was a complete shock to most people when I tell them that black men typically don't approach me. I've been approached by more asians than black men. They think black men would go or approach black women. They like many men in America are willing to date, support, and respect any other race of women but black. I never had to chase after a white man, they chased after me. If I had to chase anyone, it would probably be black men, but alas since they never showed an interest in me, I didn't chase them.
That is why many of the IR bloggers talk so much about Black men.
I really don't talk about black men here, and when I do usually it isn't negative. I talked about black men like you who feel "black women ain't shit" and whose only purpose to visit these blogs is to justify their own need to date a non black woman. The blogs you frequent serve to you as proof and fact of black women to you aren't desirable, aren't wanted, and are the stereotypes that you so desperately want to be true.
The truth is Black men are needed solely to increase the dating/mating value of Black women to other men. After all, what man would want a woman that nobody else wants (or at least is perceived as unwanted), especially by those that are closest to her?
You told your truth in this statement here. Black men have never wanted me and it never hindered my ability to date or marry. The stock of black women went up when we decided to advance our educations and our careers, exposing us to other types of people. It had nothing to do with black men or who we dated.
bro. You know, you are always the voice of reason when people decide to go off on some anti-Black male tangent!
But yet silent on any point that is anti-black female. It is amazing really, but not surprising. Maybe Grata is right, maybe I should quit defending BM as a collective and just accept that they won't do the same for BW.
Menelik said:
bro. Truth, you know, you are always the voice of reason when people decide to go off on some anti-Black male tangent!
Siditty said:
But yet silent on any point that is anti-black female.
Menelik asks:
would you care to support the above statement with an example, please?
Menelik Charles
London England
Anyway, I shall respond to you in due course, and at length.--Honestly Menalik Charles
Honestly Menalik Charles, due whatever you wish. But the fact that you feel the need to respond at length with a rebuttal shows that you are borderlining on lunacy. To be very honest, I don't take you seriously...in fact, I laugh at you. So go ahead and write a book. It shows that a nerve of yours has been bruised. This is especially true when you conveniently ignored these remarks:
"I also happen to believe that chocolate skinned children black children are the cutest (more so than light skinned children). More so than white, mixed, or latino children.
Blacks with dark brown skin have the best skin (often clear with no blemishes)."
"I have no ill will toward black men"
You are too fixated on the fact that I find another race of men to be more physically attractive on average than black men. NOTE, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I FEEL BLACK MEN ARE UGLY. IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT I DON'T FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT THEM THAT MOST BLACK WOMEN DO. Have you asked yourself why it bothers you so much? I know, it forces you to realize that you are not considered desirable to all black women.
"The question you eventually did me the honour of answering was put to you on three other ocasions on two different blogs. I guess you had to answer it here lest people see you for what you truly are!"
I'm sorry but this is beyond stupid. See what I really am? A black woman who is finally honest enough to admit that I find latin men to be more physically attractive than black men? Lastly, COULD IT BE THAT I DIDN'T RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION BEFORE BECAUSE I EITHER SKIM OR DON'T READ ALL OF YOUR POSTS? I'll likely ignore your next rant since I can see that it will be nothing more than your personal angst.
Honestly, I can't see how anyone can really take you seriously. Physician, heal yourself.
Greetings Truth B Todd,
Actually, you have to take what I wrote as a whole and not just that one section. I will restate what I said.
My belief is that the solutions to some of the real and perceived problems amongst the various AA ethnic groups will only come when the following happens:
1) Likeminded AA men and AA women form PHYSICAL communities together. Said communities can also include non-AA who are like minded and are down for the cause.
2) Likeminded AA men and AA women cut off and exclude BM and BW who stand diametrically opposed to their collective morality. (Whatever that is.)
3) Married AA men and AA women promote marriage, at younger ages for their children. This is within the context of the PHYSICAL communities I mentioned earlier.
4) Married AA men and women form networks to try and assist their single friends and family in finding other singles.
I believe all of the above as a WHOLE can be a solution for SOME African Americans. I stress some because as I mentioned before I don’t believe is a collective AA culture or collective morality. i.e. code of ethics and reasoning. I believe there could be, but at the moment I don’t see it. I do believe there is enough though, as Grata stated, for LIKEMINDED AA men and women to build a PHYSICAL community and social structure with. The reason why I believe this is the solution for SOME African Americans is because when I lived in America I saw some African Americans doing exactly the above and it was(is) successful. Yet, of them were doing it under the radar.
Part 2 to Truth B. ToddSo when I say that said likeminded AA have to cut off and exclude those BM and BW who stand diametrically opposed to their collective morality, I was stating in the context of when they start forming PHYSICAL communities. That is to say if you have a PHYSICAL community and you take the actions to form a community structure you wouldn’t allow just anyone to be a part of that. If you do you run the risk of some of the wrong elements corrupting it. For example, you wouldn’t let an unrepentant child molester be a part of a community where children are a protecting focus. By like token you wouldn’t let a person prone to violence be a part of a community.
Let me give you an example of what I mean. Before I left America I visited my mother who lives in Houston. I went to local synagogue on the Sabbath and there was a guy there who was not welcome in the community. He was approached by several members of the synagogue and told that he knew he was not welcome there. He continued to try and sit in the congregation during the service. He later tried to get an honour from the congregation that is only given to members in good standing. What made the situation tense was that his 17 year old son was there. He was again told that he knew he could not acquire said honour since he was not a member in good standing. The entire time people from the community told his son that it was not about him, and that it was only his father that was not welcome. They continually apologized to his son and told him he was welcome, but his father was not; and that his father knew this. Then the guy in question tried to punch one of the members of the congregation. At that point they kicked him out of the synagogue by force.
Once he was removed the president of the congregation stood up before everyone and apologized for what had taken place. He explained that the man in question had harmed members of the congregation several months earlier. Members of the community went to the man and tried to reason with him. They brought before him Jewish law, community law, etc. Yet, no matter what they did the man would not listen. He also refused to go before a Jewish counsel to try and resolve the issue. Then the man attacked another member of the community. At that point they issued to the man a letter of excommunication. The letter stated that the man, because of his behaviour, was not welcome to the synagogue he could not receive honours from the congregation and that he was to cease and desist in attacking members. The president of the congregation then apologized again to everyone that something like that had to happen on the Sabbath, and then the service continued.
One thing I can tell you is that excommunication does not happen that often. I personally have never seen it happen before except in the above situation. It is a painful process, but if it has to happen in Jewish culture there is a method for it. The reason being that there are some people that simply don’t care and will wreck a physical community because they are always there. Basically, their presence is a problem to the stability of the community.
When it is a virtual community people can simply go on with their disconnected lives. There are of course times when, like I said before, there are those one or two families that you simply deal with just because. Yet, there is always a line that cannot be crossed. When it happens, for the sake of the community, there has to be a cut off point. It is either that or deal with the ramifications of a loose cannon in the community.
Part 3 to Truth B. ToddThe FORMATION of a physical community is the first step, and the most primary part of what I am talking about. The other elements are important after. It is my opinion, and I could be wrong, that when one is dealing with a physical community there is less of the BW are only out for this, or the BM are only out for this. Because it is PHYSICAL and because the focus is more a collective one, if all parties involved are LIKEMINDED, it is harder to foster individualistic tendencies. I am not saying it is impossible, I am saying it is harder. I lived in a community like I am describing when I was a kid, and I live in one now here in Israel. When something happens to someone, if you are not on the best of terms, it affects everyone. I remember as a kid when things happened to one family in our neighbourhood it affected EVERYONE. Like I mentioned before I don’t remember there being a men vs women thing in the community where I grew up. I remember most things being about the community of likeminded people. Because we all lived in close proximity with each other it was an our neighbourhood thing.
When you are dealing with likeminded people things don’t have to broken down into this group of men this or this group of women that. Things can be about likeminded people, no matter what their background, looking out for fellow likeminded people. This is the problem I see with the whole argument about BW or BM not doing ABC or D. I don’t remember seeing enough of a likeminded community for such a thing to exist in America. Thus, I think if likeminded people formed PHYSICAL communities there would be no need to break things don’t into who is not or who is defending who in the virtual world but who needs to be defended in the PHYSICAL community.
Concerning OJ, Kobe, Michael Vick, etc. I know AA's who never considered these men a part of their community simply out of there being no physical or cultural connection to said men. Not saying it is a good or bad thing, it is just a thing. Like I said before, I beleive there is more than one type of AA community, and I have seen communities that do not have the issues of BW vs BM that are being discussed here. Some of them are simply below the medai radar.
Concerning the Anon who asked:
How did the Asian women become the… ideal for all races of men?My personal opinion, and I STRESS this is my personal opinion, is that it happened because of how Europeans came into contact with Asian society and their difficulties in trying to colonize it. From there I think it falls back into years of media influence about Asia being almost like a Mecca of medicinal and sexual mysteries.
There is a good movie I bought not long ago called I’m Through With White Girls, and in part of the movie an AA man and a Japanese woman go out on a date. Over the course of the date they both start seeing each other as various stereotypes. The stereotypes they see each other as are ones often promoted in the media. So during the date their interest in each other is solely based on the stereotype and not what the other person is actually saying.
Now that may be oversimplifying it a bit, but I believe that some of what is exists is the MEDIA choosing what people see as beauty. I am not 100% a conspiracy buff, but on some level I am. I believe that there is a level media programming involved in what is considered beauty. That is why I gave up popular TV years ago, and I simply apply high selectivity in the media that I watch. They have been doing it long enough for it to exist in the back of people’s minds. That is people who engross themselves in that type of media.
Part 2 to Anon concerning Asian WomenI will use myself as an example. Personally, I don’t have a one woman type preference in regards to skin colour or in supposed racial qualities. My preference in women is more of a cultural and nationalistic one. Now, I have not been devoid of the media. In my youth I was just as engrossed as a number of people. Yet, since the time I was a kid I was indoctrinated with the media of various cultures and various nationalities. I was also able to travel to various parts of the world and see beautiful people from various cultures and such.
Now being a male, like all males, I have certain things I tend to prefer when I start being selective when it comes to female beauty. For me that selectivity was always for women who were in some way athletic. It didn’t really matter what her racial makeup was physically; what mattered was if she fit into some form of athletic build for her particular body type. So the physical type that interested me could be found in various nationalities as well as sizes and hieghts. So in my life I have dated.
*African American
*Ethiopian
*Israeli (Half Moroccan/Half Polish)
*Israeli (Half Moroccan/Half German)
*Vietnamese
*Pilipino
*Israeli (Yemenite)
*Israeli (South African)
*Korean
In all cases, the one thing they had in common was an athletic body type. The reason I came to when considering why that was is because when I was younger I was into weight lifting. Also, most of the women on my father’s side were physically strong. So both of these factors together, along with the type of media I was into, and the presence of strong willed and physically strong women influenced my selectivity. For example, the last woman I dated became more interesting to me when I found out that she trained in Martial Arts the way I train in Martial Arts. During our first date we went to a local park and started training together and she was really tough. Because of my background and the type of media I was exposed to immediately I was attracted to her.
So with that as a jumping off point, in some segments of society Asian women are painted as mysterious and sexually adventurous. That is what certain elements of western media promote and that could be ONE of the reasons they have a reputation like they do internationally. YET, and I stress YET, the reality is that there are many men who go beyond what they are fed by the media. There are many men who are simply looking for a combination of what is enticing to them based on a number of factors related to their own life experiences.
Whether it be due to a rejection of something in their life experiences or an acceptance of something in their life experiences. Some guys just like something that is foreign to them and some guys like something that is common to them. Some guys like the mysterious and some guys like that which is well known. Some guys are trying to find a variation of the women in their lives, and some guys are trying to find something completely foreign to the women in their lives.
It various from guy to guy, as much as it various from place to place.
One thing I would like to say on this issue of the defense of BW.
When I was in high school and college, I remember various AA men who were defending the honour of AA women. Yet, they realized that they did not have the power, resources, or access to take on the media. Instaed what they started doing was working with kids male and female in order to cut off the media at the pass. I remember one man in particular who started a school (for weekend and summer learning) in KCMO where I lived as a kid and his school taught based upon the curriculem he established in order to promote the concepts about AA women and men that he wanted.
He was partially under the radar, maybe because he was a former Black Panther. Yet, he was not the only one. Also, he realized that you often can't take on a jaggurnout when it is bigger than you and it is more established than you. Instaed, if you can influence 10 and that 10 can influence 10 more, so and so on you can eventually turn the tide.
So maybe the problem isn't one of BW or BM seperating themselves out and deciding this cause is more important than that cause. Maybe it boils down to deciding that the CHILDREN male or female are THE cause. If you can redirect, or start out directing, at least 10 kids to beleive that BW and BM are valuable and need protection, those 10 can go out and recreate what you did for them and you have created the sparks for a revolution.
So maybe the problem is not one of the BW being overly dedicated to the BM's struggle. Or even the BM not stepping up for the BW's struggle. Maybe, the focus is getting the kids to have a focus on the struggle that will affect them all. If they can be raised to see themselves as a part of a collective struggle as compared to a struggle for only one side of the coin that can turn the tide.
I know that this may sound overly milteristic, but I believe that the womb is a weapon. When a likeminded man and a likeminded woman come together to start a family they have the potential to raise children who can literally change the world. If a a couple has 10 children (5 boys and 5 girls) and those children are raised knowing that they must stand up for and defend other liked minded people they can do more than seperated like minded people trying to fight an entity that they don't have the numbers or the resources to fight. If said children are placed in an environment where they can seek out liked minded mates and repeat the process, well that pretty much speaks for itself.
At some point all the talk in the world about a problem goes nowhere. At some point only action can change something, and because ANYONE can go out and work with kids that may be the easiest way to start. That is just my opinion.
Men with children were a red flag to me when dating. It was a double edged sword, on one hand if they do take care of the kid or kids, more than likely they have a huge financial burden and their free time is occupied.
The man does lose value in the marriage market, but men like that are not very concerned with committment to begin with, so it is no big loss to them.
If a man with kids is scummy enough not to take care of them, then he is scummy enough to not even acknowledge their existance. Since the mother usually has possesion of the kids, so she does cannot do the same.
Do you seriously believe this? I will tell you this, black don't worship me. White men don't worship me. No race of man worships me. Black women want what other women have as a collective...
First I do believe this to be true to varying degrees but in general it is true. Of the BW IR bloggers (I know, you don't focus exclusively on it) you are on the sane and mild side of the spectrum while "E" and "S" are on the extreme, but the general complaint is the same. You want what you PERCEIVE that other women get.
a community in which they their is no finger pointing at them, blaming them for all the ills of that community. We want respect.
Nobody rational blames BW for all of the ills, but BW as whole refuse to accept blame for what they are responsible and what they can control.
Not to be called a nappy headed ho by a white man and then have a black man co sign on the insult.
Those few "comedians" do not speak for everybody. They speak for the audience that pays them, which includes many Black women (and White men).
We want to know that when we are raped by a fellow black man, you guys won't rush to his side and offer him a college scholarship after being arrested for making an unconscious underage black girl give him oral sex.
From what I remember of the details it wasn't forced and he was 17 and she was 15. And they did not support him against a Black female, they supported him against a stupid law, a law that was changed by the state of Georgia due to that effort. Even Oprah who rarely touches on American BM had him on her show.
Or tell an underage girl she was too fast after it is discovered a 38 year old black man is pissing on her.
A community error committed by both sexes.
When a black woman is raped and tortured by white folks, we want Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to get angry and rally the troops like they do when a black man is harmed.
Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are two people, they are not gods. Perhaps Jesse and Al do say something but it is the mainstream media that does not care to cover what they are saying unless if it is something that truly sells papers or ad time. And Al Sharpton got burned twice (Tawana Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case) defending Black women, but that still doesn't seem to count.
We are the only race of women where the men will publicly denounce us as a whole. We are the only race of women who seem to advance career wise and academically ahead of our men, and it is seem as a negative instead of a positive. We are the only race of women in which the men openly disrespect and despise us and then want us to accept this disrespect.
No, you are not the only race of women, you just see your own abuse more. Like I said sexism exists on this planet and it varies in extremity from group to group. While you may look at white women and be envious of what they have (and your perception of what they have) how many of you strong, independant Black women would be willing to trade places with an Arab Muslim woman and their rules? Every group of men could/should do better.
The viscious irony is that the continued insistance that Black men treat their women the worst is doing other groups of women a disservice as it allows other groups of men to falsely pat themselves on the back while at the same time they continue to oppress "their" women.
You told your truth in this statement here. Black men have never wanted me and it never hindered my ability to date or marry.
I was speaking in general. The more people that want something, the more valuable it is perceived as. You said as much in your Asian woman post you linked here.
The stock of black women went up when we decided to advance our educations and our careers, exposing us to other types of people. It had nothing to do with black men or who we dated.
Black women stock has not gone up, which is why the furor over the 70% number. Only 18% of BW are college educated, so while education has benefited some by giving them new experiences and choices, it has not benefitted the masses of BW.
And women and men have different grading systems. Regardless of race, a man who has education and career prospects that are increasing sees his dating/mating value increase, while it does not have the same effect for a woman. I have never heard men say "damn, she went to Dartmouth", but I have heard plenty talk about the physical attraction, which is the important foot in the door first step.
I am not saying this because I want to be cruel or I hate BW or want you to think that nobody wants them, I am justing writing what I observe.
But yet silent on any point that is anti-black female. It is amazing really, but not surprising. Maybe Grata is right, maybe I should quit defending BM as a collective and just accept that they won't do the same for BW.
That is not fair. I am not pro-Black Male nor anti-Black female or any of that. I am pro-truth (at least my interpretation of it).
And I have defended you and Yanomamma when someone here I respect accused you of being like "S" & "E". And in this thread I gave support to LorMarie and her right to do her thing.
What anti-BW statements or actions are being made (here and in general) that I should be protesting?
The problem with many Black women is that you want universal acceptance all the time, which is impossible. Not even White women have that.
"First you come to America and when you find out that they don't want you, you state that you are going to Germany to find a husband. How pathetic of a woman does one have to be to keep relocating to find a man interested in them?"
O truthnotbetold, you are pretty pathetic.
Is that what you
deduce from what i write? Seriously? Relocating to look for a man and can't find one in America? Man, some of you Black men are pretty deluded about your manhood. Geez, God help those women that actually see the value in men like yourself.
And God forbid you ever have daughters, what a useless father they will have.
LOL! You may not want me in America but I am here. Its a free world remember? Some of us have the luxury of dual citizenship. Chew on that one.
"Don't seem to concerned about your own local tribesman, now do you? Take your hypocritical ass to Germany and go torture some poor German sucker."
Oooo! You have something against Germans? Why do you keep bringing them up ? Is that an anti German sentiment? What did Germans ever do to you? Is this reverse racism?
My tribes men? Now those are of way more value than some of you can ever be. Even with their issues, they have the sense to look out for their women and children. No contest with you lot.
Its rather interesting when some of you try to belittle Africans LOL! Is that the best you could have come with LOL!
"Oh no, Grata is no longer gonna look out for BM! What are we gonna do? I think we will make it. LOL, why do you think you are valuable to anybody?"
Oh, I know how much value I have. No amout of condensation can change that.
Why else would I encounter Black Males always whinning about The Man, Society and American Black Women trying to make me see their struggle? I think they assume that I care. That is some value right there.
Why don't they take that whinning else where instead of piling it on a "valueless" foreign student ? Calling for unity based on skin color while the same fools don't support their own.
You don't strike me as an adventurer but have you ever slept in a room with a pesky mosquito? I am that mosquito.
"Who are you except some foreign student who thinks she understands the complexities of a society that she doesn't."
Ofcourse a foreigner to you cannot understand the complexities of America's legacy of slavery right? And I am not any more foreign than your average White American to the AA community.
Tell me, why do guys write books and scream on top of the world so that everyone can hear you? What is the purpose of all that if its not to inform, to maipulate ?
So as much information as there is out there on AA issues, no one except AAs can truly understand.
What is the point of listening to you and your problems then if in the end no one outside your community can understand them. Why keep demanding a dialogue on race when really as outsiders we can never understand the complexities ?(I know Africans are not in that equation, silly. But I can't tell you how many times I have heard AAs remind Africans how they are N****s too. Why is that?).
I know what it is with people like you, you want to maintain the status quo which is beneficial to the Black Male. You have turned the genuine fight for equal rights into a hustle to meet your own personal needs. You exploit BW and those of the lower classes to advance your own interests. So when people like me come along then we are foreign, valueless and ignorant, right? LOL! I can see your cards.
Seriously, you will need a more solid argumetn to defend the status quo. The injustice against BW and Children is a fact, its not going anywhere. Insulting foreigners on the internet won't make it go away LOL!
"Unlike you, I don't need everyone in the world to love me. People have always disliked Blacks no matter what we did/do and I don't expect that to change."
Ah, the power of over assumption. Why do your type keep doing that?
I have black skin remember? Are you going to educate me about the Black experience? LOL!
"I know it must really kill you to see other people (especially Black men) living happy lives that don't involve you. Sucks to be you, doesn't it."
Again too much self worship here. Black American men not giving me personally any attention and I get bothered by that? Clearly you do selective reading, I acually wish they wouldn't acknowledge my presence at all.
This is how you guys have succeeded in trampling on your women, by calling them bitter and attention starved and that is why they are angry about BM with other women.
I tell you what, I intially never saw anything wrong with BM being with other women because I argued that this was America. My own tribes men not so much, and they know what they can and can not do and the price.
But after I looked closely at why BM were marrying out and the impact on the community and society at large, my attitude changed.
So please cut out the shallow arguments, they are cheap and sleazy distractions from the real problem. But then again its you. Never mind.
"And who are you to give this advice when you yourself stated that you are gonna chase after German men and beg them to notice you."
I speak well of Germans because among Europeans they are the most open minded. I believe they hit bottom with their racial issues with Hitler and continue to grow out of it. No one else has accomplished that. Does that mean I am going to relocate and chase a German man to you? No that it would be an entirely bad idea.
You seem to be new to this blog, there has been a long running joke in this community about relocating to Eurpope. If you had been around you would also have have known that I intend to join a convent and I have a few women ready to join me. So we have a choice between relocating to Frankfurt to look for German men or to go to the Vatican.
Sorry to burst your little 'BW chasing German men' bubble. Find something else to get off on.
"More false White man worship. There are plenty of rundown trailer parks and downtrodden White communities in the USA that would disagree. White men will kill other Whites to make a buck (remember the company that knew about the Peanut Butter but still put it on the market anyway)."
O dear, how do I simplify this. Just look at the stats. How many are in trailer parks Vs those that are not. Do the same for Blacks. How many have crossed the middle class line Vs those that haven't. And even among the Black middle class, how much are they contributing directly into the growth of their communities compared to whites or are they just salary keepers and taking care of their nuclear families. You need productive males for a community grow even to the "low" levels of the white community that you are so eager to elude.
"It's the American Dream. Except for the White woman part, which your own insecurity keeps leading you to dwell on. I know, you are horrified of ever having to compete with them for any man".
O lord, there you go again with you bogey white woman line. It would be so offensive if it werent so amusing.
I bet you would find it hard to believe that some of my closest friends are actually white women and my bests of friends actually white men. Hard one to imagine, I bet. And no converstaion with them is off bounds.
Another trick you Black men use against BW. You batter their confidence by comparing the supposedly "superior" white woman and with them and they become naturally silenced.
Man you are too impressed by White Womanhood, its embarrassing. Fortunately, I see them for who they are, women just like me nothing more nothing less (though sometimes I wonder about the last one).
By the way don't be fooled that they don't see your parasitic game. They are too aware of it. And they do play the game too. I have had some of the most candid conversations with these women. Somethings, you don't want to know.
"And what the f__k am I supposed to do about it?"
Spoken by a true useless BM.
"Some do and some don't. I avoid those who do, and engage with those who don't. Unlike you, I don't need 100% acceptance everywhere I go all the time to in order to be someplace."
Ah, you are obviously new in this environment. You would have known that I don't have 100% acceptance. More like .5%. My screen name is derived from 'Persona non Grata'. Get it?
"Once again, why are you so fixated on the almighty White man's opinion? Is Tiger supposed to give up his Golf career to go stop the Bloods and Crips from warring, so all White men can like him, LOL."
I see you left your thinking hat home. Go get it.
"When Tiger appears at a tournament, those same White men make more money than they would have if he didn't appear. Tiger is richer than them, he has a prettier wife than them, and more fame than them and more victories than them. Why the hell should he care what they say?"
Haha! Yeah. Its all about the money. Debase your women no matter what people say as long as you make more money than them. That's it?
tbt, how old are you?
"And who is Tiger's people? He is a mix of many things, why should one side be able to claim him over others?"
That is your ideal world? Is that what some of you are aiming for, wash your self into a mix of no identity? WOW! Wash yourself of Blackness?
"Spare me the guilt trips, I am fully onto you. You don't give a flying you know what about the Black Community. You just want Black men to serve as your slaves while you chase after White men."
LOL! Is that your true fear? BW chasing after WM. How possible is that even. The prospect is mind boggling. So you advocate for BM to run out of the community before BW do?
Like I said before, I think we should declare racism officially over because the race card seems to benefit the BM that doesn't have the community's interest at heart. He uses his skin color to get ahead but doesn't care for those left behind. The race card has been stolen. Those that need it don't have access to it. It should be declared null and void or inaccessible to the Adult Black male.
"After all, it is going to be pretty tough to convince White men to take you when Black men won't."
Honey, I have never failed to attract a man I wanted. *Knock on wood*, it has never happened. Show me a man and if I am remotely interested in him, I will get him. So I am not sure who you are talking to here.
Black American Men are not my interest so I can never know if they want me or not though I still attract them, I am not sure where you are coming from here. But, keep fantasizing, its good mental exercise.
"Same thing with all the people speaking out in favor of Kobe, and R. Kelly and Michael Vick."
Notice that all these are men caught in the system. Where is the BW who the BC rallies to. Even with Dunbar Village you had the Al Shaptons running to help the victimizers with their legal issues!
I wasn't around but wasn't Angella Davis probably the last high profile female case? And could that also have happened because there were BM caught in between? What if she was by herself would people have cared that much?
Also I recently asked the question, what if Rosa Parks was a dark skinned Black woman, would she have been treated as well as she was by both Blacks and Whites?
"Millions of other less fortunate Black men and women go through the system without a peep because no one is watching (or no one with power is watching). So those men who have seemingly left give the community it's best opportunity of being heard."
These men give the patform for Black men's issues to be heard. Let's be clear about that.
THe BC and society at large focuses sorely on the BM's plight. Its getting old. The BW does not exist, if she does, she is just a nuisance. And BM are too willing to benefit from the attention and benefits they get and completely forget the BW and child and rationalize it to living their lives the way they want to and those calling them out as angry and bitter. HELLO, the problem still exists.
Mark my words again, very soon you will have a Rodney king issue ( which just happened recently but this time the culprits were Black cops and no uproar there obviously despite the fact that the child was 14 years old and was beaten unconscious while they were being filmed. Now even a white Cop wouldn't go that far. See, BM will even strangle their own children).
At that time it will be a blatant act of racist injustice and you won't hear a peep out of anyone.
Grata, Truth...
I'm waiting to the part where you rip off each others clothes and make mad passionate love...
"If you still think I owe you something then call Equifax and have them put it on my credit report."
Dude, try not to sound like a low life. Its not cute.
"The truth is Black men are needed solely to increase the dating/mating value of Black women to other men."
Man, is that what BM think their purpose is in the community, just to stand by and watch the women do their thing.
How low is your self esteem? You can't imagine a Black woman wanting you for you? What is wrong with you? You must be truly lacking. In which case keep walking LOL! Only good genes are needed.
"Anyway, I shall respond to you in due course, and at length. Gotta pick up a four-year girl who needs, wants and loves her father"
LMAO. This reminds me of a BM I met on the subway with his son once. He went over board to show his son in public that he loved him. With 1000 I love yous. He wanted to display a different kind of Black man actually taking care of his kid.
If you love your child, its between you and your child, you don't have to broadcast it to the world that you love you child so people can know how different from the stereotype you are LOL! You BM are too funny.
"I was even more insulted when CNN gave him an "entertainment news show". That wascancelled quick."
If he had said that about some white women do you think he would have got that show?
"We want to know that when we are raped by a fellow black man, you guys won't rush to his side and offer him a college scholarship after being arrested for making an unconscious underage black girl give him oral sex."
Wasn't that fool even acknowledged by the NAACP? Are there no BW in that organization?
"No, you are not the only race of women, you just see your own abuse more."
Nice! Watering down the Black woman's struggle by comparing their plight with that of other women.
Dude you have learnt too much from massa like,
"Blacks shouldn't be too angry about slavery, it has been part of man kind since the beginning and most socieites have experienced it. So get over it, you are not the only ones." Makes sense doesn't it?
"Like I said sexism exists on this planet and it varies in extremity from group to group. While you may look at white women and be envious of what they have (and your perception of what they have) how many of you strong, independant Black women would be willing to trade places with an Arab Muslim woman and their rules? Every group of men could/should do better"
LOL! First mistake you make is eqauteing BM to the men of other groups. Lets see, the first obvious difference is, these men will never let another group disrespect their own women. They generally take care of their children and do pride themselves in taking care of their women's basic necessities.
Please, only analogize things that have some real similarities.
You know as the qoute goes, “When you argue with a fool, chances are he/she is doing just the same”.
My mistake to get involved with you, Grata. I shall leave you be. I have no interest in "saving you" or making you feel like you have a place in the world. Feel free to consider me useless to you. I will barely think of you at all.
"I know it must really kill you to see other people (especially Black men) living happy lives that don't involve you. Sucks to be you, doesn't it."
The above is the retort of a reject and an outcast. What's not being said goes something along these lines: "I hate your guts because you never wanted me. And now that I found someone who does want me, I desperately hope that you will notice me now and realize your loss".
You're good at this, Grata! They can't pull the wool over your eyes.
Grata's views may seem extreme but you can't deny the truth behind them. Like it or not men are the guardians of their community and black men (not all but enough that it makes a difference)seem to have left their posts. When I say black men I'm referring to those that live in communities that have a legacy of slavery.
where are people getting this 70% single rate for black women? according to this it's only 40%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YSuJyVdvU&feature=related
someone is pulling some sh*t out of their ass in terms of that 70% stat, come on now make up your mind.
i'm so confused, also in terms of the little lovers quarell between Grata and Truth, the argument is always the same and is never going to go anywhere, just let it go.
@LorMarie,
look, girl, I've had to chase you across to three seperate blogs just to answer the one question I asked you...it took you close on a MONTH to respond so don't accuse me of ignoring your reply!
I shall respond in due course. Did you not understand what I said above? I SHALL RESPOND IN DUE COURSE!
But sure of one thing: I have accused you of being mentally ill on a number of ocasions not least because of your very public friendship with the British National Party which, for those who dont know, is a racist group responsible for the murder of Black boys over here in England.
LorMarie is also friendly with the guys at the KKK-funded Stormfront and never, ever gets fiesty when she responds to anything they say...never, ever, ever!
Thus you can say what you will, LorMarie, fact is your response to my question has huge flaws in it as I shall show within the next day or so...just you wait and see: stew a little!
SOON COME!
Menelik Charles
London England
Part One
Menelik said:
But you know what Siditty? It would be wonderful if you’d simply elevate your relationship with your white husband (a decent man, I’m sure) to the status of HUMAN and attempt to live out MLK’s dream of merely judging people by the content of their character.
Siditty replied:
What makes you think I haven’t? We have been together 10 years. At this point looks are secondary. I don't wake up in the morning looking at my husband thinking "wow, look at my white husband". When he leaves the toilet seat up and I fall in, my frustration has nothing to do with his whiteness.
Menelik asks:
“Frustration”? What have you got to be “frustrated” about? (1) You’ve achieved a colour-blind relationship (2) you’re ten-years into the most important union in human culture (3) you are happy…presumably. What’s the problem, Siditty? What’s so frustrating?
Siditty said:
Beauty ideals in America frustrate me. If I hear one more white woman talk about how gross Beyonce's butt is, I will scream! Seriously. I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America. I have learned to live with the fact I’m not airbrushed, not blond, my hair will never be naturally straight, I’m not petite, I have an ass and thighs, and my eyes are boring old brown.
I as a black woman can't compete with the petite frame and straight long hair of Asian women. I can't compete with the blond hair and blue eyed Europeans, and I can't compete with the long flowing hair and light skin of the Hispanic woman…
These women are the ideals, the ones everyone desires… everyone wants. I am black, the one group that never has men of all races chasing after her. I am in the one group that men don't go for if you were to look at the media in general. Asian and Hispanic women are exotic. Black women are too far off the spectrum to be considered anything more than an oddity
Menelik said:
Oh, that kind of “frustration”…you should have said, dear!
Siditty said:
Why is it assumed black women aren't feminine? In all honesty, Black women haven't had the opportunity… to be "traditionally feminine". We…have had to create our own way, and that many times means falling outside the traditional definitions.
Menelik replied:
Well, are Black women feminine or not? Or have they had to create their own mangled ‘femininity’ out of the psycho-cultural and gender chaos that was plantation slavery? My opinion is that matriarchal households do not generally produce women possessing “traditional” feminine traits i.e. empathy, compassion a kindly demeanour…a softness which often overrides a woman’s physical appearance. And which almost certainly makes that woman ‘wifey’ material!
The dominant ‘femininity’ in the post-slavery African-American community is that of a mother hen variety…cluck-clucking, domineering, hen-picking (the ‘wrong’ men) and having loads of chicks! Thing is, when you transfer this mother hen mentality to the human realm, you end up with loads of “strong” single women – with or without children.
Anyway, for what it’s worth, Siditty (and disagreements aside) I happen to find you absolutely, and unambiguously feminine! You can take that to the bank! But before you go, answer me this: around which race of females did you grow up around again?
Menelik Charles said:
I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!
Siditty replied:
In American society white and Latina always trumps black women in the looks department, even if they are not as attractive in reality. That is how beauty standards in American work.
Menelik Charles
Part Two
Menelik replied:
No, Siditty, that is NOT how it works. Beauty standards in the US are white-male instigated and they function so as to deny the intrinsic beauty of dark-skinned, Negroid featured Black females.
For white men to acknowledge the value of such women on a societal level would be to SUBTRACT from the value of white and lighter ladies…and, by extension, themselves.
Better to elevate the light, to seek it out, and relegate the dark to bed wench status!
I cannot think of a more convoluted way to tell a whole race of women that they “aint shit”! Can you?
Siditty said:
Black women are seen as a different species all together.
There are the stereotypes that we are loose…or that we are wild in bed. Then there’s the other media stereotype that we are asexual or "momma" types.
Menelik said:
All are white-male controlled media stereotypes borne of their traditional exploitation of Black women as (1) bed wenches and (2) as asexual mammies for their offspring. They raped our women to maintain the sanctity of their own; they destroyed African families so that our foremothers could maintain, and nourish their families!
Jesus said “love thy enemy”; the Jews said “never again” and meant it! Consider me an honorary Jew!
Siditty said:
I don’t think Menelik is all that bad…he has his assumptions, like most of us...I do think he is willing to listen, and at least, is trying to be fair.
Menelik says:
What was that I said about femininity again… empathy, compassion a kindly demeanour…softness? Something like that!
Menelik Charles
Part Three
Siditty said:
I have learned to live with the fact I’m not airbrushed, not blond, my hair will never be naturally straight, I’m not petite, I have an ass and thighs, and my eyes are boring old brown.
Menelik replies:
Siditty, I hate to see Black people in distress, really, I do! I think that in a variety of ways, how and where you were brought up was detrimental to your spirit as a seeker of self-enlightenment.
I mean, hanging with the ‘brothers’ over a summer, and temporarily altering one’s taste in music (from Duran Duran to a Tribe Called Quest) was but a passing phase which ultimately led you back to square one…self-estrangement.
The thing is, Siditty, deep down you haven’t “learned to live with not being airbrushed, not being blond”…not being white. “I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America” you declare!
Why, because you can’t be white, blond and petite? Therefore, you as a Black woman “aint shit”?
I declare that my heart truly goes out you, Siditty, since I find it hard to imagine you’re as you perceived yourself to be. At the very least you possess a kindly spirit, and it is truly a pity there aren’t more sisters like you among the general population of African-American women to choose from!
Peace.
Menelik Charles
London England
Jesus, I hope everything fell in the correct sequence!
Menelik Charles
London England
Grata said to truth b told:
you want to maintain the status quo which is beneficial to the Black Male. You have turned the genuine fight for equal rights into a hustle to meet your own personal needs.
You exploit BW and those of the lower classes to advance your own interests. So when people like me come along then we are foreign, valueless and ignorant, right? LOL! I can see your cards.
Menelik responds:
Who the hell is "YOU"? Do you know truth b told? No. Then how can you accuse him of all the above and address him as though you know him?
And why such hatred and bitterness? I dont get it!
Such hatred needs a ready scapegoat.
Unfortunately you wont find it truth be told.
Maybe you should look a little closer to home. I mean, you talk about truth being a potential awful daddy to his potential daughters.
Interesting.
I wonder, was your daddy a good father towards his daughters?
This is but a question, dear. I hope you'll merely answer it without spewing hatred.
Menelik Charles
London England
i have a question, siditty, and this really is only curiosity, but what inspired this post?
i ask because your post doesn't actually explain why you think black women's status is changing. you talk about how black women are better educated and and earn more than black men on average (correct me if i'm wrong), and you cite the 70% thing again, but you don't actually explain how you come to the conclusion that black women are climbing out from the bottom of the barrel. black women have outnumbered black men in american universities for at least 2 decades. i assume those numbers wouldn't explain the recent shift in status you posit.
did some experience, anecdote, or new statistic bring new insights?
where are people getting this 70% single rate for black women? according to this it's only 40%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3YSuJyVdvU&feature=related
someone is pulling some sh*t out of their ass in terms of that 70% stat, come on now make up your mind.
The 70% stat includes the 42.3% that have never been married (which is what you are qouting) plus the number that have been married and are now divorced.
i'm so confused, also in terms of the little lovers quarell between Grata and Truth, the argument is always the same and is never going to go anywhere, just let it go.
No lovers, and I have let it go.
ask because your post doesn't actually explain why you think black women's status is changing. you talk about how black women are better educated and and earn more than black men on average (correct me if i'm wrong),
Black women do have more education, but I don't think they outearn Black men. At least not at comparable education levels.
"I'm waiting to the part where you rip off each others clothes and make mad passionate love..."
Eeeeeew! I am more into character and real men.
If that was the last choice I would head straight to The Vatican.
"My mistake to get involved with you, Grata. I shall leave you be. I have no interest in "saving you" or making you feel like you have a place in the world."
LOL! @ saving me.
You could only save me from your type.
"Feel free to consider me useless to you."
I don't consider you useless, you represented yourself as such and very well mind you.
If there were real Black men out there seeing your defense they would have been insulted.
"Grata's views may seem extreme but you can't deny the truth behind them."
Uncomfortable truths are my thing.
The more people try to cover up the truth the sicker they become on an individual level and on a societal level.
Anyone that has been through trauma and describes the process of healing knows that you have to air out everything in order to recover. The BC needs to go through the same process, face those hidden uncomfortable truths that are creating the chaos and confront them head on. Ofcourse you will have those apologists that will always try to cover everyone's eyes with all sorts of tricks like the White Woman Bogey so you don't push them to face their responsibilites.
Also they will use terms like White Man Worship so you don't look to the White standards as suitable for you too. These people have succeeded for a long time.
If you want what the White woman has then you are envious, gold digger etc. The same fools will go ahead and give the non Black Woman the same thing they won't give their own women. And when their asses get caught in the system they run back for BW support. BW need to break free of this cycle.
These types of men are doing the same exact thing society has done to blacks. They are now doing it to their women and children. And they are getting away with it.
I think I shared before how Irish Women of early America demanded that their men do more for them like the other men from other White ethnicities did for their women. Irish men are renowned for their love of booze and they were the underdogs then and quite undisciplined. Its the women that turned the trend around.
There is alot to learn from the WW's struggle for equality. BW actually do have a leg up because BM don't have that much economic or political power to hold them down. But BW must demand that BM take care of their children and contribute to the community.
These hypocrites selling the idea of indivualism are just that. They know where to run when things go wrong so they must as well feed the cow they are milking.
"Who the hell is "YOU"? Do you know truth b told? No. Then how can you accuse him of all the above and address him as though you know him?
And why such hatred and bitterness? I dont get it!"
Hatred bitterness? Hmmm why does that sound familiar? Did you have a point to make?
As for knowing tbt, I think it is fair to say that with interraction comes some insight into a person, no?
You don't know me do you? How did you conclude that I was hateful and bitter?
"I wonder, was your daddy a good father towards his daughters?"
O yeah. A lousy husband but a good Father and
still is.
What was your point?
Here is the video of Police Brutality. Black Policemen choke a 14 year old. Where is the uproar on this one?
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/05/18/nr.teen.police.beating.tape.cnn?iref=videosearch
{{{{sigh}}}}} you don't think they outearn black men and at least on comparable education levels? could you qualify that a bit more? you can find evidence for everything if that's what you want. which was part of the point of my question. but thanks for the unsolicited qualified vague 'information'. helped a lot.
@Grata,
Menelik asked:
"I wonder, was your daddy a good father towards his daughters?"
Grata resplied:
O yeah. A lousy husband but a good Father and
still is.
What was your point?
Menelik replies:
my point is that you've said a lot about your father elsewhere and it wasn't too flattering.
There's stuff you doubtless need to work out with him on an emotional/psychological level. Don't take out your unresolved issues with daddy on truth be told!
Your lengthy replies to his reasoned arguments are astonishing in their absurdity...truly, you need to take a step back and engage in a little self-reflection!
That was my overal point.
Menelik Charles
London England
{{{{sigh}}}}} you don't think they outearn black men and at least on comparable education levels? could you qualify that a bit more? you can find evidence for everything if that's what you want. which was part of the point of my question. but thanks for the unsolicited qualified vague 'information'. helped a lot.
You are posting to this site so obviously you have access to the internet. Why not do the research if you really want to know.
The 70% stat includes the 42.3% that have never been married (which is what you are qouting) plus the number that have been married and are now divorced.
Also the women who are widows.
_______ views may seem extreme but you can't deny the truth behind them. Like it or not men are the guardians of their community and black men (not all but enough that it makes a difference)seem to have left their posts. When I say black men I'm referring to those that live in communities that have a legacy of slavery.
- A Black man who shoots at his "brothers and cousins" and who produces babies by multiple women without regards to taking care of them = victim of oppressive system
- A Black woman who sleeps with such men and have their babies while demanding the right to do as she pleases = victim of same oppressive system
- A Black man who believes in himself, goes to school, establishes a career, and decides to live in a neighborhood with a lifestyle where his "brothers and cousins" won't be able to shoot at him = Useless, Uncle Tom Sellout who has Eurocentric values and is not taking responsibilities for his "brothers and sisters" and is too much of a white-ass kisser to realize that he owes it to our ancestors to go fix the problems that are created by the same Black men who would shoot at him amd the Black women who reward those Black men who would shoot at him with sexual favors.
Nevermind that the Black man that shoots at his "brothers and cousins" faces the same societal pressures that the Black man that strives for and achieves excellence does.
Also nevermind what the Black man who shoots at his "brothers and cousins" or the Black women that sleep with such men owe our ancestors, it seems that only people that achieve should be held accountable.
I will leave it to you to figure out why many of the most capable Black men have left. No matter how many guilt and shame tactics you can come up with, they won't be coming back, unless if they develop a desire to get shot at or to raise some other man's semen byproducts.
Guardianship and the right to do as you please cannot co-exist at the same time. Black America and especially many Black American women (70% stat) are learning that the painful way.
This reminds me of a BM I met on the subway with his son once. He went over board to show his son in public that he loved him. With 1000 I love yous. He wanted to display a different kind of Black man actually taking care of his kid.
If you love your child, its between you and your child, you don't have to broadcast it to the world that you love you child so people can know how different from the stereotype you are LOL! You BM are too funny.
Black man neglects his child = loser
Black man showers his child with affection = loser
Damn Menelik, I guess we can't do anything right no matter what we do.
again, it wasn't my question. my question was about from whence siditty's argument, point of view, perspective whatever, came. you obviously have access to the original post which was meant for her. make use. but thanks once again, "truth", for the [un]information.
"There's stuff you doubtless need to work out with him on an emotional/psychological level. Don't take out your unresolved issues with daddy on truth be told!"
Freud wannabe AKA Menelik,
LOL! @ your quacky psychoanalysis. You think you can turn the arguement around by reaching deep into my psyche and bringing my own relationship with my father to the forefront. Pretty pathetic and cheap attempt at evading the real gist of the discussion isn't it? Another favorite trick of Black male apologists.
Look into a persons psychology for unresolved emotional childhood issues and explain their position on more potent issues.
So who is fit to address society's issues? One that is lacking in any real experience? Aren't all major social changes advocated by those that have had some experience? Do we go around analysing their previous experiences and then nullifying what they have to say because they are likely biased? Would the Civil rights movement have been better led by upper class white folks with their hearts in the right places? You better find another trick. This one is busted.
In societies where women are severely abused, raped etc, does it make sense for a ruling class male to come out at the forefront and be a voice for those issues and would he be taken seriously?
Not that I am trying to be a voice for AA women's issues, I, as an outsider have sort of a birds eye view and having proximity to AAs, I have a perspective that maybe useful. If not, its called freedom of speech.
So my relationship with my father even as disfucntional as you want to think it is has little to do with my activities. And by the way, he would be very proud of me. He always was and always encouraged me to fight for the voiceless and disadvantaged. I know AA women would hate to accept the fact that they are in a weak position but the truth is, they are and no one cares especially BM.
My father also always told me to control the man I marry. In otherwords he told me to be the dominant one! Why do you think that was? I still scratch my head over that one but as a male who made his fare share of mistakes, which like a true man he acknowleges, he knew the dangers of women being subdued and un protected. African men in my region believe in empowering their daughters so other men don't take advantage of them. The best fathers I know are from my region. They all seem to agree on empowering the woman. Men are proud to call themselves feminists.
Even Neanderthal Jacob Zuma just made half his cabinet women. Seriously even S. Africa with its lousy treatment of women still believes in empowering them. In America, not so, destroy the BW is the M.O.
So knock yourself out with more psychoanalysis.
Dude, I hope you can be atleast half the father my dad is to your beloved daughter.
If you are a good husband, then you might make it, if not, save some money for your daughter's future shrink's fees or develop your skills for that.
I would give you an all too important tip on fathering your daughter from my father but you wouldn't want that from me now would you?
"Your lengthy replies to his reasoned arguments are astonishing in their absurdity...truly, you need to take a step back and engage in a little self-reflection!"
Ooooo! Astonishing! I can tell the Brits have rubbed off onto you. LOL!
As for reflection. Hmmmm! Preaching to the choir my dear.
As for the reasoned arguments, you obviously missed the insulting bits. Typical.
"That was my overal point."
Really? I thought you had more coz I had already seen where you were going.
"my point is that you've said a lot about your father elsewhere and it wasn't too flattering."
Menelik,
Incase you are wondering, my father is well aware of his children's criticisms of him. He gets it everytime one of us visits. Poor guy. I am more forgiving, not so my siblings.
Its public knowledge where I am from and he accepts it as a price for his mistakes. He uses himself as a cautionary tale to the young men he meets.
He is even open to me writing a book even if it shows him in an unflattering light. He realizes that it would in a strange way be instructive to other men in our society. Go figure. Writing a book is actualy his and my mum's idea. I am not too keen but they keep pushing me.
In his memory, I might do it a long time from now God willing.
How good a father one has been can be truly seen when a man makes some serious mistakes and his children still have some respect for him in his evening years.
"Black man showers his child with affection = loser"
He is a loser if he is doing it as some form of public attention seeking.
That is a real loser. Where you choose to show affection for your child is inconsequential, your motives are what make it a loser scenario.
If you don't show the same affection in private but choose to do it in a public space, something is wrong.
This particular guy on the train went over board making everyone part of his conversation with his child. You could see that the child was embarrassed too.
Hi Siddity,
Interesting post.
Loved Grata's commentary and responses to the two black "men" who are obviously jealous of Black women and our successes and advances.
I earn over 3 times as much as my Black husband. Since Black women go to institutions of higher learning at higher rates than Black men, then of course, it goes without saying that we earn more and get ahead more than Black males.
Are some of you black "men" forgetting that 50 percent of AA males are either in jail or otherwise involved in the justice system (on parole, etc.)?
I attended Howard University School of Law and graduated in 1998. When I went back the next year for a graduation ceremony, I learned that 70% of the students were BW!
I've also heard somewhere that 50% of Black boys do not graduate from high school - I know that this is true in Detroit and believe that it is likewise in other major cities.
Black men are not in good shape over all. Except of course, President Barack Obama, who is happily married to a dark-skinned Black woman, who he loves and adores.
It will be interesting to see what happens when BW finally figure out that they need to look after themselves, and let BM work out their issues on their own.
Trust me, Black men have no problem looking out for their own interests - everyone else be damned.
Since Black women go to institutions of higher learning at higher rates than Black men, then of course, it goes without saying that we earn more and get ahead more than Black males.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0197814.html
Link 2
http://www.rachelstavern.com/uncategorized/35.html
Black man needs to take ownership of his problems and stop blaming others.
You need to add that to your tidy list.
"No matter how many guilt and shame tactics you can come up with, they won't be coming back, unless if they develop a desire to get shot at or to raise some other man's semen byproducts."
You don't need to come back if you weren't really there in the first place. However, when you look back and see the black community in shambles it's on you.
Boy, this thread is incredibly long.
First I need to say to Grata that I love your comments.
To the black male apologist frequenting this thread, your time would be better spent frequenting blogs and boards by young black men in order to encourage them to go on a straight path. What I see from you all is what I see from the black male collective at large: not admitting that there is a huge problem among yourselves and when you do admit it, it's everyone else's fault.
As for me, I'll be working to encourage and advance black women foreign and domestic (no, I'm not bothered by the whole foreign vs US blacks fiasco). Black women have problems that I won't deny as well as great successes in which I am proud.
But no, you males appear to be more concerned with black women bloggers than black male criminals, unemployment, disease, etc.
Lastly, as much as it dashes anyone's hopes, you cannot stop the black women's empowerment message as it is a lot more organized than you would imagine (off the net).
Grata nsaid:
This reminds me of a BM I met on the subway with his son once. He went over board to show his son in public that he loved him. With 1000 I love yous. He wanted to display a different kind of Black man actually taking care of his kid.
If you love your child, its between you and your child, you don't have to broadcast it to the world that you love you child so people can know how different from the stereotype you are LOL! You BM are too funny.
truth be told said:
Black man neglects his child = loser
Black man showers his child with affection = loser
Damn Menelik, I guess we can't do anything right no matter what we do.
Menelik replied:
I guess you're spot on there, bro! Her logic almost defies the category of perversion!
But that said, her envy for the affection the father showed his son was patently obvious.
I feel awfully sorry for this woman and I figure she'll not be finding peace of mind any time soon.
Menelik Charles
London England
@ SIDITTY: MISSED A PAGE FROM MY RESPONSE TO YOU ABOVE!
Siditty said:
I was…aware as a child I wanted to be a white girl. I…don't think I truly knew a black people outside of my family until I got to college. Until then my world outside my immediate home…was white.
The few instances I did have with black folks my age was negative. I was made fun of for talking and acting "white" and I really never understood why…I thought black folks in general were mean and my family was the exception.
Menelik said:
You genuinely thought your family were outside of the African-American norm in terms of colour prejudice and self-loathing?
Honestly?
Siditty said:
I have family… who disown other folks for marrying too dark. This isn't all that surprising to me. My cousin’s… biological mother purposely became pregnant so she could have bright children. Both have white fathers.
I had aunts who would tell us children to get out of the summer sun for fear of us blackening.
I will admit as a child I wish my hair was straight, my nose was smaller, and my lips weren't so thick. I will also admit I wish I had hazel eyes like my brother, and lighter skin. I know all about Ambi, Palmers, and Esoterica, and I don't think I am the only one…to have used it.
Menelik said:
And as a black woman you say you couldn’t compete with “the petite frame, and straight long hair of Asian women; the blond hair and blue eyes of the European; or with the long flowing hair, and light skin of the Hispanic woman”. Right?
Earlier, you chose to respond to an inquiry levelled at LorMarie. This was it: I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!
To be honest, Siditty, I think if I posed this statement as a question, I can pretty much take an educated guess at what form an honest answer from you would take.
Clearly you find it unsettling, indeed, frustrating, being a Black woman, and given your family background and personal experiences, I cannot say I blame you.
Today, you express the full range of your frustration on your blog but appear strangely oblivious as to the implications of what you write. Certainly, you don’t ‘bash’ anyone (its not in your nature) but you do expend all awful lot of energy bemoaning your plight as a Black woman in relation to white, Asian and Latin ladies on the one hand, and white men ignoring you as a potential partner (other than for sexual purposes) on the other.
As a married woman, Siditty, none of this should concern you. Unless we’re dealing here with a whole box of psychological ploys disguising a preference – not for “hot white boys” (as you’re happy to have us believe) but with white women…as in I’d prefer to be a white woman than a Black one!
I mean, you speak of white women as though they were precious dolls that you can neither possess nor imitate. To live out the deep down desire to be white, light and less African; along with an unspoken family commandment to marry light, bright or just plain white, is clearly not enough anymore. Since not only do white women continue to haunt you via every medium you care to engage with but so now do Asian and Latin ladies!
Siditty, it is my intuitive feeling that your apparent “hots” for white boys is more a heterosexual inclination than a racial one. The real fixation, and of course, frustration, is primarily with white women!
Menelik Charles
London England
LorMarie said:
To the black male apologist frequenting this thread, your time would be better spent frequenting blogs and boards by young black men in order to encourage them to go on a straight path.
Menelik replied:
then stop frequenting blogs by the very Black men you are referring, you lying hypocrite!
I'll get back to on the last matter soon!
Menelik Charles
London England
Grata said:
Aren't all major social changes advocated by those that have had some experience?
Menelik replied:
but you, lady, are obsessive and hateful. You see nothing positive anywhere...not even in a Black father publically displaying affection for his son!
What type of woman are that would be offended by such a display? One full of envy, anger and ugliness. The type of person who'd more likely advocate genocide than liberation!
TOOO MUCH HATE!
Menelik Charles
London England
Black women stock has not gone up, which is why the furor over the 70% number. Only 18% of BW are college educated, so while education has benefited some by giving them new experiences and choices, it has not benefitted the masses of BW.
But it has benefitted some and even with the low number of degreed black women we still outnumber the amount of degreed black men by a pretty big margin.
In 1998, 1,247,000 were enrolled in college (not graduated, but enrolled), while only 770,000 black men were. To me an increase in educated folks make your stock go up. Typically income is tied to education is it not? Income or wealth in this country increases an individuals stock on society. Black women are advancing their educations and joining corporate america in higher numbers than our male counterparts.
Regardless of race, a man who has education and career prospects that are increasing sees his dating/mating value increase, while it does not have the same effect for a woman.
But it does increased education and career prospects increase a woman's access to men of increased education and career. Most men don't marry strippers, but a lot of guys go to strip clubs, if it was based on attraction alone strippers would all be married and strip clubs would be full of ugly people working the poles. Class and social status impacts men in who they choose to pair up with. Physical attraction is a big thing, but there are other factors as well.
I am not saying this because I want to be cruel or I hate BW or want you to think that nobody wants them, I am justing writing what I observe.
But that is what folks are doing. I see it all the time. You are trying to say even with an education and career black women will always be alone and on the bottom of the totem pole. You like the idea of us being on bottom, not on top, and surely not on equal footing.
-------------------
What anti-BW statements or actions are being made (here and in general) that I should be protesting?
Here nothing. Elsewhere it is all over the place go to youtube, blogspot, etc. It is everywhere. Sergeant Willie Pete or Mr. Laurelton Queens. It is rampant on the internet.
The problem with many Black women is that you want universal acceptance all the time, which is impossible. Not even White women have that.
What acceptance do black women have at all? We get none, especially from many of our own men.
Menelik Charles,
Are you saying that LoMarie is a sympathizer of the British National Party and a frequent poster of Stormfront?
-----------------
“Frustration”? What have you got to be “frustrated” about? (1) You’ve achieved a colour-blind relationship (2) you’re ten-years into the most important union in human culture (3) you are happy…presumably. What’s the problem, Siditty? What’s so frustrating?
Do you think all relationships are 100% lovey dovey. My husband does stuff that drives me crazy. I know I do the same for him. Sometimes we argue. Most folks do. It drives me mad when he leaves the toilet seat up. It isn't a cause for divorce, but it does work my nerves. That is frustrating. That or when he leaves the milk out after he gets cereal.
Oh, that kind of “frustration”…you should have said, dear!
now you are taking quotes out of context. I can't be nice to folks that twist words to fit into their agendas. I don't have much patience for it.
Well, are Black women feminine or not? Or have they had to create their own mangled ‘femininity’ out of the psycho-cultural and gender chaos that was plantation slavery? My opinion is that matriarchal households do not generally produce women possessing “traditional” feminine traits i.e. empathy, compassion a kindly demeanour…a softness which often overrides a woman’s physical appearance. And which almost certainly makes that woman ‘wifey’ material!
So black women in your mind are masculine she beasts. Black men were taken out of the homes during slavery, I guess when they left the women turned into men. I also want to ask that since there was a lack of black men in the homes, do the boys who are a result of female lead households become feminine? If so we have a lot of feminine men in the black community, just like we do masculine women.
The dominant ‘femininity’ in the post-slavery African-American community is that of a mother hen variety…cluck-clucking, domineering, hen-picking (the ‘wrong’ men) and having loads of chicks! Thing is, when you transfer this mother hen mentality to the human realm, you end up with loads of “strong” single women – with or without children.
Yes that is all or even most black women and white, asian, hispanic, etc women are devoid of these traits. Only black women have children in litters.
Anyway, for what it’s worth, Siditty (and disagreements aside) I happen to find you absolutely, and unambiguously feminine! You can take that to the bank! But before you go, answer me this: around which race of females did you grow up around again?
So I am feminine because I grew up around white women? That is a backhanded compliment, basically an insult. You are saying my mother grandmothers, and aunts who were black women all married to black men played no role in my ability to be feminine? I didn't fit into the femininity ideals of my surroundings anyway. I was a black woman and many white people think like you do that black women are masculine.
No, Siditty, that is NOT how it works. Beauty standards in the US are white-male instigated and they function so as to deny the intrinsic beauty of dark-skinned, Negroid featured Black females.
How many times have you been to America to fully understand the racial hierarchy that exists here and how it works? I will say this white men and black men value latina and white women over black women. Hell you just proved it yourself by equating my femininity with the fact I grew up around white women.
I mean, hanging with the ‘brothers’ over a summer, and temporarily altering one’s taste in music (from Duran Duran to a Tribe Called Quest) was but a passing phase which ultimately led you back to square one…self-estrangement.
Did I estrange myself? How did I do that. I probably hang out with more black people now than I ever did growing up. I have said I didn't realize I was black until college, and I spent more than a summer in college. Yes I live pretty much like all the places I have lived in a predominantly white suburb, but I have considered moving to more "ethically" more diverse areas, especially when my husband and I have kids as I want them to not grow up feeling isolated. That is no secret.
The thing is, Siditty, deep down you haven’t “learned to live with not being airbrushed, not being blond”…not being white. “I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America” you declare!
How did you determine this? I could look like a troll, but I do know that at this point in my life I am ok with it. Just because I don't fit into white beauty ideals, it doesn't mean I have let myself go. It also doesn't mean I am not attractive. You seem to have been all over my blog, you forget to find those posts where I said I was shocked that white men even approached me because I thought they all wanted white women or at least non black ones.
my question was about from whence siditty's argument, point of view, perspective whatever, came.
Ieishah,
My post was based on a comment made on another post by an anonymous poster. It was the Maxwell post before this one. It basically said that black women were ugly and no one wanted us, hence a person who believed "black women ain't shit".
------------------
Jamdown,
Thanks, it is good to know you understood the intent of my post was not to insult black men on the whole, but rather those who have the belief that black women are low on the totem pole, and for those who seem upset that black women want black men to show at least some respect to us as a whole instead of condemning us.
"No matter how many guilt and shame tactics you can come up with, they won't be coming back, unless if they develop a desire to get shot at or to raise some other man's semen byproducts."
Truth B. Told,
Isn't this more of black men abandoning the black community? Why is it up to black women who are in the community and move ahead to fix things?
You genuinely thought your family were outside of the African-American norm in terms of colour prejudice and self-loathing?
No, I thought my family was outside the norm of being mean, as a kid I thought black folks were mean, because of the few black kids I knew, most of them were mean to me. I didn't understand as a kid that I talked or acted "white", and I was left confused and hurt as a result when the kids threw insults like that at me.
Clearly you find it unsettling, indeed, frustrating, being a Black woman, and given your family background and personal experiences, I cannot say I blame you.
My mother and father never said or did anything to make me think there was something wrong with my blackness, but they had to compete with other family members and the environment in which I grew up in. My mother and father were very much into making me feel pretty and I know to them I was pretty, but to the outside world I wasn't. Television and the white people around me told me that I was ugly.
Today, you express the full range of your frustration on your blog but appear strangely oblivious as to the implications of what you write. Certainly, you don’t ‘bash’ anyone (its not in your nature) but you do expend all awful lot of energy bemoaning your plight as a Black woman in relation to white, Asian and Latin ladies on the one hand, and white men ignoring you as a potential partner (other than for sexual purposes) on the other.
No I write about the racial hierarchy established in this country and how it impacts me as a black women, just not relationship wise, but self esteem wise, career wise, etc. I make no apologies for that.
As a married woman, Siditty, none of this should concern you. Unless we’re dealing here with a whole box of psychological ploys disguising a preference – not for “hot white boys” (as you’re happy to have us believe) but with white women…as in I’d prefer to be a white woman than a Black one!
There is no hatred of white women as a whole on this blog. Some had said some crazy stuff to me, as well as my husband, but not in general. I think you are reading into things way deeper than they actually are. The sad thing is now, it doesn't concern me as a woman, I am married, I don't worry about it, but the majority of my life, before I was married, it was a concern. That is what I address. I guess you never read the entry on white men not being saviors. Do I have a hatred of european beauty standards that black women are expected to adhere to? Yes. I will fully admit that,but definitely I do not hate white women or feel beneath white women as you seem to assume.
along with an unspoken family commandment to marry light, bright or just plain white, is clearly not enough anymore.
You don't know my mother and father. My mother's only crime was relaxing my hair to make it easier to manage, other than that she doted on darker skin vs. light skin and didn't mind me getting darker in the sun.
Since not only do white women continue to haunt you via every medium you care to engage with but so now do Asian and Latin ladies!
No one "haunts me" and no where have I said that. I have told stories of asian and white women being upset that even though I don't fit into the beauty ideal I still managed to have men attracted to me, but I don't attribute those ladies to the whole of their respective races.
Siditty, it is my intuitive feeling that your apparent “hots” for white boys is more a heterosexual inclination than a racial one. The real fixation, and of course, frustration, is primarily with white women!
How often do I truly talk about white, asian or hispanic women? Out of over 600 posts, please tell me how often they are mentioned?
The black men on here talking trash are just more minions of Laurleton Queens. I wish they would all dissappear off the face of the earth. They do no one any good. Black women haters.
Menelik Charles,
Are you saying that LoMarie is a sympathizer of the British National Party and a frequent poster of Stormfront?--siditty
It's another one of his absurdities. I don't post on stormfront nor do I support them. In fact, I see them as no different than the bw bashers. I don't support the bnp, I do frequent the blog of a member.
@ menalik, I don't frequent mlq or rocky's blog. I've posted their, but I would not call it "frequenting." I don't take them or you seriously.
"You are trying to say even with an education and career black women will always be alone and on the bottom of the totem pole. You like the idea of us being on bottom, not on top, and surely not on equal footing."
That's the crux of his argument. I fail to understand why some people are so hell bent on convincing black women that they are not worth anything as women.
What have they to gain from tearing someone else down.
@Kenya:
Think about it - if you are a Black male who knows the world hates you (mostly because of your own misconduct) and who hates himself (look at how eagerly Black men kill each other), who else are you going to beat down than Black women?
You cannot touch White males or females (unless you get your hand on a White woman who is so besotted with your Blackness that she allows you to mishandle her), so you go after the one in your home.
When Black women begin to flee the Black ghettoes and live in the suburbs, as they will when they pursue higher education, I wonder who Black men will turn their wrath on? I guess they can continue to go to jail and shoot each other down.
Having said the above, I know that there are many successful Black men who are supportive of Black women. I live in Southern Maryland and to be quite frank, I work with and worship with successful African American males and females. Don't meet many of the "damaged beyond repair" negroes that Evia writes about.
Why Truth be Told and Melinik feel that they are going to down Black women on this website is beside me. Siddity, you are VERY kind to entertain them. Good for you!
I am bewildered by why people feel the need to go on a BW's blog and criticize or debate with them on their opinions and personal experiences. It seems like there are better ways to use your time. I honestly don't care about what BM think of me. The only BM's opinion I've ever cared about was my Father's and he's been dead for nearly 15 years. Other than that, a BM can say whatever they want and it will go in one ear and out of the other. Completely irrelevant. Grata is right when she says that BW need to take care of themselves. So many of us put ourselves last on the priorities list and that shouldn't be.
Part One
Menelik said:
It would be wonderful if you’d… elevate your relationship with your white husband (a decent man, I’m sure) to the status of HUMAN and attempt to live out MLK’s dream of… judging people by the content of their character.
Siditty replied:
What makes you think I haven’t? …I don't wake up in the morning looking at my husband thinking "wow, look at my white husband"…my frustration has nothing to do with his whiteness.
Menelik asked:
…What’s the problem, Siditty? What’s so frustrating?
Siditty said:
Beauty ideals in America frustrate me. If I hear one more white woman talk about how gross Beyonce's butt is, I will scream! Seriously. I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America...
I as a black woman can't compete with the petite frame and straight long hair of Asian women. I can't compete with the blond hair and blue eyed Europeans, and I can't compete with the long flowing hair and light skin of the Hispanic woman…
I am in the one group that men don't go for if you were to look at the media in general. Asian and Hispanic women are exotic. Black women are too far off the spectrum to be considered anything more than an oddity
Menelik said:
Oh, that kind of “frustration”…you should have said, dear!
Siditty replied:
Do you think all relationships are 100% lovey dovey? My husband does stuff that drives me crazy…e.g. when he leaves the toilet seat up. It isn't a cause for divorce, but it does work my nerves. That is frustrating.
Menelik replied:
Why are you responding to a question I haven’t asked? Your blog wasn’t founded on pawing over the domestic trivia of your marriage. Its primary purpose is to work through the emotional impact on you of (1) Black women’s racial and feminine status in relation to white Asian, and Latin ladies (2) white men’s sexual and romantic perception of Black women in relation to white, Asian and Latin ladies and finally (3) to drool over images of the race of men whom you asked:
“Why is it easy for you to treat me as a sex object, but not as a possible companion? Why can you ask a white, Asian, and Hispanic woman out, but a black woman is just too off limits?”
This is the stuff that makes you truly “angry” and “frustrated”, Siditty, not the fact your hubby forgets to put the toilet seat down after using it! Just be honest, sister friend. We are having a discussion, are we not?
Siditty said:
Why is it assumed black women aren't feminine? In all honesty, Black women haven't had the opportunity… to be "traditionally feminine". We…have had to create our own way, and that many times means falling outside the traditional definitions
Menelik said:
My opinion is that matriarchal households do not generally produce women possessing “traditional” feminine traits i.e. empathy, compassion a kindly demeanour…a softness which often overrides a woman’s physical appearance. And which almost certainly makes her ‘wifey’ material!
Siditty asked:
So black women in your mind are masculine she beasts?
Menelik replies:
No, darling, that’s how most white men perceive Black women - or as you put it, as feminine “oddities…a different species all together”.
Truth b told said:
Black women’s stock has not gone up…Only 18% of BW is college educated… I am not saying this because I want to be cruel, or I hate BW, or want you to think that nobody wants them; I’m just writing what I observe.
Siditty said:
(1) You are trying to say, that even with an education and career; black women will always be alone and on the bottom of the totem pole. You like the idea of us being on bottom…
(2) I don't think black women are undesirable, what I do say is that mainstream beauty standards put black women at a dis-service; if you disagree so be it.
(3) I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America. I have learned to live with the fact I’m…not blond, my hair will never be naturally straight, I’m not petite, I have an ass and thighs, and my eyes are boring old brown.
Menelik said:
You know, you really must stop lashing out so indiscriminately since there is nothing in either truth b told’s words or his spirit which desires for Black women to be down ‘n’ out. However, there is much in what you write which clearly positions Black women at the “bottom of the totem pole”…not least of all, yourself!
Siditty said:
I don't really care who black men date or marry, as I am already married.
Menelik said:
Then why should you care a flying pig whether white men date or marry white, Asian or Latin ladies? Or that they promote these three racial groupings as their preferred choices as dates, mates or marital partners?
Siditty asked:
…Since there was a lack of black men in the homes, do the boys, who are a result of female-lead households, become feminine? If so, we have a lot of feminine men in the black community, just like we do masculine women.
Menelik replies:
Well, since I’ve suggested that matriarchal households do not generally produce especially feminine females and that you’ve chosen to use the term “masculine” to describe such women, then it logically follows that boys would turn out “masculine” anyway!
What many Black boys lack are fathers to raise socially responsible men since untamed masculinity easily translates into machismo. Girls need to see fathers leading, and interacting affectionately with mothers in order to observe and appreciate feminine responses to male/female interactions.
Siditty said:
(1) So I am feminine because I grew up around white women? That is …an insult. You are saying my Black mother, grandmothers, and aunts…all married to black men, played no role in my ability to be feminine?
(2) I was…aware as a child I wanted to be a white girl. I…don't think I truly knew black people outside of my family until I got to college. Until then my world outside my immediate home…was white
(3) Why am I the white girl at work? Because I grew up upper middle class, I am educated, I listen to alternative, punk, college, indie, music, like sushi and Thai food, and I’m married to a white man…
(4) I didn't fit into the femininity ideals of my surroundings anyway. I was a black woman and many white people think like you do that black women are masculine.
Menelik replies:
You’re lashing out again, dear! If you “didn’t fit” in then it was largely down to how white men interacted (or avoided interacting) with you. White women didn’t treat you as a “different species” I’m sure. You hung out with the white gals peeping at the “hot” white boys only for them to let you know that you were the “odd” girl out…that you weren’t “blond, skinny, and with naturally straight hair”.
A “fate” you now “accept”.
But you had as much a fixation on how white girls looked; their demeanour; what they wore; how they spoke; and what music they listened to, as any white boy who may have expressed a personal interest in them! That’s what you call a double whammy, Siditty!
Menelik said:
Beauty standards in the US are white-male instigated and function so as to deny the intrinsic beauty of dark-skinned, Negroid featured Black females. For white men to acknowledge their value on a societal level would be to SUBTRACT from the value of white and lighter ladies…and, by extension, themselves.
Siditty asked:
How many times have you been to America to fully understand the racial hierarchy… and how it works? I will say this: white men and black men value Latina and white women over black women. Hell you just proved it yourself by equating my femininity with the fact I grew up around white women.
Menelik replies:
You just keep on lashing out, Siditty, darling! How utterly disarming lol. But I thought I was the one making all of the assumptions. You’re feminine, and that’s that! Many African-American women are not, and that’s life. “Slavery was a bitch”, remember?
Anyway, I got loads of family in both New York and Los Angeles so I’ve visited the US on countless occasions.
Peace.
Menelik Charles
London England
Can we please teach all women, black included to focus on that which they can control? Themselves.
You can't change other people's perceptions of you against their will, but you can change your perception of yourself.
Honestly, the low self-esteem that radiates from the comments in these IR blogs is ridiculous. And it is actually contagious.
Take care of yourself, eat healthy, go to the gym, read a book, travel, wax your eyebrows and any other place that should not have visible hair. Get interesting and there will be people of all races who will be attracted to you as you are living life.
Can we please stop with the "soceity doesn't think I'm cute"? What do you think of yourself? If you need a booster shot of self esteem, make friends with someone from africa and go visit africa with them. I bet there will be tons of black african men who would be happy to take you home to their mother.
Seriously, you have to believe in yourself of your own worth in order to convince others.
I beg you. Go and buy books like "the secret" or "the 7 habits of highly effective people." How can you attract people with a defeatist attitude?
Start thinking positively and highly of yourself today.
Focus on you. Do your best and forget the rest.
_With Love, a Black woman
Wow, this is still going?? This is Sid's blog and her opinion. I don't think that she should be bashed for it. I just think that it's pointless to try to change someone's viewpoint with all of this back and forth debating. I don't think that she is some tragic person who views herself as low on the totem pole for beauty. She is just commenting on society's perception of BW in general.
PART ONE
Menelik said:
As a married woman, Siditty, none of this should concern you. Unless we’re dealing here with a whole box of psychological ploys disguising a preference – not for “hot white boys” (as you’re happy to have us believe) but with white women…as in I’d prefer to be a white woman than a Black one!
Siditty replied:
There is no hatred of white women… on this blog…I think you are reading into things way deeper than they actually are. The sad thing is now, it doesn't concern me as a woman, I am married, I don't worry about it, but the majority of my life, before I was married, and it was a concern.
Menelik replied:
Why do you continually ‘answer’ questions that were not put to you? Never, ever, have I suggested you hated or disliked white women. Quite the opposite, in fact! Below are the two other paragraphs (you mysteriously declined to respond to) in their proper context:
(1) certainly, you don’t ‘bash’ anyone (its not in your nature) but you do expend a lot of energy bemoaning your plight as a Black woman in relation to white, Asian and Latin ladies on the one hand, and white men ignoring you as a potential partner (other than for sexual purposes) on the other.
(2) I mean, you speak of white women as though they were precious dolls that you can neither possess nor imitate. To live out the deep down desire to be white, light and less African; along with an unspoken family commandment to marry light, bright or just plain white, is clearly not enough anymore. Since not only do white women continue to haunt you via
every medium you care to engage with but so now do Asian and Latin ladies!
Here’s how you chose to respond to part of the 2nd paragraph:
Menelik said:
along with an unspoken family commandment to marry light, bright or just plain white, is clearly not enough anymore.
Siditty said:
You don't know my mother and father. My mother's only crime was relaxing my hair to make it easier to manage, other than that she doted on darker skin vs. light skin and didn't mind me getting darker in the sun.
Menelik says:
In the WHOLE paragraph, I made absolutely no reference to your parents but to a frequently unspoken FAMILY commandment to marry light or white (which you did). But what you wrote, Siditty, is down to YOU not me as we shall see below.
Siditty said:
I have family… who disown other folks for marrying too dark. This isn't all that surprising to me. I know all about Ambi, Palmers, and Esoterica, and I don't think I am the only one…to have used it
I will admit as a child I wish my hair was straight, my nose was smaller, and my lips weren't so thick. I will also admit I wish I had hazel eyes like my brother, and lighter skin. My parent didn't ever push the "light is right" mentality, but they didn't have to, my surroundings and family members contributed to that.
Menelik said:
So there you have it, Siditty, a family background in which the collective messages were (1) “niggers aint shit!” (2) “white is right!” and (3) mate or marry white or light so as to “improve” the race.
Something else to keep in mind here, which this: the earliest attacks on your racial and feminine self-esteem came from WITHIN your own Black family NOT via the white mass media.
Siditty said:
No one "haunts me"…. I have told stories of Asian and white women being upset that even though I don't fit into the beauty ideal I still managed to have men attracted to me…
Menelik says:
So you’re saying that despite being BELOW the accepted white and Asian feminine ideals that some men find you attractive? But that’s not quite the whole story is it, Siditty? I mean, you did manage to get a date, right? Wanna tell us how?
How did you determine this? You seem to have been all over my blog, you forget to find those posts where I said I was shocked that white men even approached me because I thought they all wanted white women or at least non-black ones.
Menelik replied:
Why should it shock you that a few white men out of some 110 million white men should find you attractive? Because you have “accepted” your “fate” as “unattractive in America”?
Menelik said:
Siditty, it is my intuitive feeling that your apparent “hots” for white boys is more a heterosexual inclination than a racial one. The real fixation, and of course, frustration, is primarily with white women!
Siditty replied:
How often do I truly talk about white, Asian or Hispanic women? Out of over 600 posts, please tell me how often they are mentioned?
Menelik replies:
Its not how often you talk about white, Asian or Latin women, its how INTENSELY you talk about them!
Siditty said:
No, I write about the racial hierarchy established in this country and how it impacts on ME as a black woman, not just not relationship wise, but self esteem wise…etc.
Menelik replies:
Siditty, you are a happily married woman. You got the white man you want, and from the race with whom you have much in common. So what possible bearing could white America’s apparent elevation of white, Asian, Bi-racial and Latin ladies have on your level of self-esteem as a happily married Black woman?
Siditty said:
Do I have a hatred of European beauty standards that black women are expected to adhere to? Yes. I will fully admit that, but definitely I do not hate white women or feel beneath white women, as you seem to assume.
Menelik replies:
Three things, darling (1) you don’t have to adhere to white beauty standards (2) I never suggested you hated white women, as you well know; and (3) any Black woman who writes what follows below is not just being painfully honest but is also saying something pretty significant about her level of racial and feminine self-esteem.
Siditty said:
”As a black woman, I can't compete with the petite frame and straight long hair of Asian women. I can't compete with the blond hair, and blue-eyed Europeans, and I can't compete with the long flowing hair, and light skin of the Hispanic woman…
These women are the ideals, everyone desires… everyone wants. I am black, the one group that never has men of all races chasing after her. I have accepted my fate as unattractive in America.”
Menelik says:
Does one have to read too deeply into the above words to realise their underlying message about how you feel about being a Black woman, Siditty? Anyway, I guess it makes sense you writing a post on white men not being saviours, right?
Let’s call it quits, eh?
PEACE!
Menelik Charles
London England
Siditty said:
Are you saying that LoMarie is a sympathizer of the British National Party and a frequent poster of Stormfront?
Menelik replies:
yes I am. She has explicitly stated that she is friends with a leading member of the BNP...a man the anti-fascist magazine Searchlight is very familiar with!
Yes, she does post on racist sites. She is a liar to state otherwise. She even invited bro Rocky to debate with one of her racist friends so that the racist could bash him so to speak!
That woman to me is akin to the bastard child of Debra Dickerson and David Duke...truly repugnant!
Menelik Charles
London England
Siditty said:
Are you saying that LoMarie is a sympathizer of the British National Party and a frequent poster of Stormfront?
Menelik replies:
yes I am. She has explicitly stated that she is friends with a leading member of the BNP...a man the anti-fascist magazine Searchlight is very familiar with!
Yes, she does post on racist sites. She is a liar to state otherwise. She even invited bro Rocky to debate with one of her racist friends so that the racist could bash him so to speak!
That woman to me is akin to the bastard child of Debra Dickerson and David Duke...truly repugnant!
Menelik Charles
London England
No, let's not call it quit, eh. Go to a Black man blog and spew your anti-black female foolishness there. This is a Black female's blog and we are proud of who we are.
You are not going to keep Black women down. Get used to it.
"Trust me, Black men have no problem looking out for their own interests - everyone else be damned."
This should be on a bamper sticker.
"As for me, I'll be working to encourage and advance black women foreign and domestic (no, I'm not bothered by the whole foreign vs US blacks fiasco)."
That's the spirit. BW everywhere have to deal with the nonsense that is Black men.
I just spoke to my sister who is in the UK and she was suggesting that BM need to be castrated. LOL! I wonder what sparked her off. Her Ex is African and even with all his faults one thing is that he genuinely cares about his children. That is the African man's saving grace, if he can care for his children he is almost forgiveable. As for the typical AA man that is a whole other story.
If you can't care for your own children you are truly the scum of the earth.
"but you, lady, are obsessive and hateful. You see nothing positive anywhere...not even in a Black father publically displaying affection for his son!"
Hateful LOL! Dude that is one cheap shot.
You indirectly used your affection for your child to diss someone else, you think we didn't notice?
Is that genuine affection or you using your child to fight your battles?
"What type of woman are that would be offended by such a display? One full of envy, anger and ugliness. The type of person who'd more likely advocate genocide than liberation!"
Dude you are relentless. Again using your child to get accolades from the public as a caring father is not a display of affection but a self serving attention seeking pathological move. Just like you did dissing someone by referencing your child needing your attention and that man on the train going over board to show the passangers how much he cared for his child, you are one and the same people.
If you are too busy to respond to people's questions and your child needs your time, why are you hear yapping about it. You should be reading her bedtime stories instead of proclaiming to strangers how much you care about her in a disguised diss.
You thought you were clever?
Let me ask, is the mother of your child white?
And Genocide??? Another cheap shot. Because I happen to be Africa? That is jealousy right there. Unfortuneately no one can help you with that. Settle for your civilized England in your lost state, Africa envy will get you nowhere. Oh, and also that was very predictable. Your kind tend to run off the same script.
The only thing you want liberated from is your responsibilty to Black society. We are calling out your parasitic tendencies.
Its game up for you lot, you better take as much as you can while you still can. The cat is out of the bag.
"It's another one of his absurdities. I don't post on stormfront nor do I support them. In fact, I see them as no different than the bw bashers. I don't support the bnp, I do frequent the blog of a member. "
Have you noticed how sensationalist these guys are. They will pick a line and take it completely out of context and try to run with it.
Keep catching them.
"When Black women begin to flee the Black ghettoes and live in the suburbs, as they will when they pursue higher education, I wonder who Black men will turn their wrath on? I guess they can continue to go to jail and shoot each other down."
And that is when BM will be shot by White cops and no one will say a thing. Because there will be no one to speak up for them. That time is surely coming.
…What’s the problem, Siditty? What’s so frustrating?
I answered this question like 20 damn times now. Let me copy paste:
When he leaves the toilet seat up and I fall in, my frustration has nothing to do with his whiteness.
It is part of being married everyone has things that bother the other person. If you haven't experienced this you have never been a long term relationship.
Oh, that kind of “frustration”…you should have said, dear!
You are completely taking things out of context. You seem to be a bit mentally unstable.
Why are you responding to a question I haven’t asked? Your blog wasn’t founded on pawing over the domestic trivia of your marriage. Its primary purpose is to work through the emotional impact on you of (1) Black women’s racial and feminine status in relation to white Asian, and Latin ladies (2) white men’s sexual and romantic perception of Black women in relation to white, Asian and Latin ladies and finally (3) to drool over images of the race of men whom you asked: “Why is it easy for you to treat me as a sex object, but not as a possible companion? Why can you ask a white, Asian, and Hispanic woman out, but a black woman is just too off limits?”
You are out of your damn mind. Number one reading this blog from beginning to end, as you have obviously done. I blog about my life, things that interest me. Hell I blog about stuff that doesn't interest me. This blog has never been an IR blog. It is IR purely in the fact that I am in an IR relationship now and my views of race relations based upon my background and previous relationships.
I can't even be nice to you anymore, you are warping and taking things out of context, reading into things that don't even exist, and are at this point talking nonsense.
This is the stuff that makes you truly “angry” and “frustrated”, Siditty, not the fact your hubby forgets to put the toilet seat down after using it! Just be honest, sister friend. We are having a discussion, are we not?
I was trying to have a discussion, it appears you are having a mental breakdown.
No, darling, that’s how most white men perceive Black women - or as you put it, as feminine “oddities…a different species all together”.
Do you not remember insinuating that the only reason I might possibly be feminine is because I grew up around white women. This is what you said as a reminder:
Anyway, for what it’s worth, Siditty (and disagreements aside) I happen to find you absolutely, and unambiguously feminine! You can take that to the bank! But before you go, answer me this: around which race of females did you grow up around again?
Did you not say that? What was I to get from this passage?
In the WHOLE paragraph, I made absolutely no reference to your parents but to a frequently unspoken FAMILY commandment to marry light or white (which you did). But what you wrote, Siditty, is down to YOU not me as we shall see below.
Uuuhhhhmmm yes I have family who did do that. They are for the most part dead, and I grew up over 300 miles from them the majority of my life. My parents, my immediate family raised me. My cousins did not. I hate to break it to you. I come from a family where my mother and father are married to each other. She is feminine I guess by your standards as well. I guess the she is an anomaly in your eyes.
a family background in which the collective messages were (1) “niggers aint shit!” (2) “white is right!” and (3) mate or marry white or light so as to “improve” the race.
No where is this ever said. You again reading too deep into something, and taking things out of context.
So you’re saying that despite being BELOW the accepted white and Asian feminine ideals that some men find you attractive? But that’s not quite the whole story is it, Siditty? I mean, you did manage to get a date, right? Wanna tell us how?
No what I said was that those white and asian women were upset that even though in THEIR minds I wasn't the "ideal", I still managed to date men that they didn't think I was fit to date. That is all. No where is that a reflection upon me. I got dates by guys asking me out. I got a date with my husband because he told his friend who in turn told me friend he liked me. I asked him about it, he asked me out. We have been together ever since. Crazy. I never had to pull a train or put out to get a date sweetie. I don't work that way, but thanks for thinking I had to do something sinister to get male attraction.
Its not how often you talk about white, Asian or Latin women, its how INTENSELY you talk about them!
How intense am I, really? I say that in America mainstream beauty ideals lean toward white, if that is intense, so be it.
So what possible bearing could white America’s apparent elevation of white, Asian, Bi-racial and Latin ladies have on your level of self-esteem as a happily married Black woman?
I still am affected by beauty standards, just because I am married does not mean I am to let myself go and look a hot ass mess. I care about my looks, like most people.
Three things, darling (1) you don’t have to adhere to white beauty standards (2) I never suggested you hated white women, as you well know; and (3) any Black woman who writes what follows below is not just being painfully honest but is also saying something pretty significant about her level of racial and feminine self-esteem.
You are delusional. What you have figured out is I don't like mainstream ideal beauty standards. You have not figured out how I feel about myself. I am black, I wear my hair natural, and do not try by any stretch of the imagination to fit into ideal beauty standards. This has nothing to do with self esteem.
Let’s call it quits, eh?
Yes, let's call it quits. You are completely and utterly mad out of your mind.
-------------------------
You are not going to keep Black women down. Get used to it.
For men like him, it bothers him to no end that we aren't depressed or sad about ourselves that we are making strides and improving ourselves.
yes I am. She has explicitly stated that she is friends with a leading member of the BNP...a man the anti-fascist magazine Searchlight is very familiar with!--Menalik
You are such a lunatic! YOU said that you received info that I was friends with a bnp member. I explained that he has been civil. Posting on a blog does not equal support or friendship.
Yes, she does post on racist sites. She is a liar to state otherwise. She even invited bro Rocky to debate with one of her racist friends so that the racist could bash him so to speak!--Menalik
You went from the dumb accusation that I post on stormfront to the more generic "racist sites." Yes I have and do post on racist blogs as opposition...not stormfront or similar sites. Yes I did invite Rocky to debate an English racist (from that bnp blog in question). Why? It's my opinion that these bw-bashers attack whom they feel is an easy target but not a real challenge. In other words,these black misogynists need to see how their position in the world compares to white and Asian men instead of bw compared to white and asian women. I notice these guys never do that. If they did, we'd really see extreme disparities far worse than those among women of all races.
btw, mentalect
be thankful that you are living in the "white man's west."
"In other words,these black misogynists need to see how their position in the world compares to white and Asian men instead of bw compared to white and asian women. I notice these guys never do that. If they did, we'd really see extreme disparities far worse than those among women of all races."
LorMArie,
No surprises there. These types of men are fact twisters. They always try to pull a fast one. They are sensationalists. You are challenging them to debate white racists? Are you kidding me, only real men with balls do that. Actually we need such men to continue marrying out. Their offspring will benefit greatly from the White genes coz they really have nothing to offer to the BW.
"btw, mentalect
be thankful that you are living in the "white man's west."
Exactly, they could never survive in Africa. That is why some of these guys need to be on their knees 24/7 thanking the White man not only for giving them a "better" life but also providing them with wives.
Seriously such men should never bitch about the WM. Their whole existance is facilitated by the WM. And we BW are foolish to try and support their so called "cause".
@LorMarie,
girl, I have something really special for you, just you wait. No matter where you post I'll make sure it gets to you!
In the meantime, do check out the British Sundyay newspaper, the Observer and you friend (you called him that) who is the senior legal advisor for the BNP is featured!
LorMarie said:
You went from the dumb accusation that I post on stormfront to the more generic "racist sites." Yes I have and do post on racist blogs as opposition...not stormfront or similar sites.
Menelik asked:
what in the Lord's name is your definition of a racist site? Name them, why don't? Just NAME THEM!
keep waiting!
Menelik Charles
London England
"I will share a little personal story.
In my second year in America I was going to the bus stop and this BM jay walked to the bus stop and was followed by cops. From a distance I could see the situation was tense, being angered by American racism and have lived through wars, this one was easy. I walked up straight to them and stood abour 5 feet from them and pretended to be eagerly waiting for the bus. They were asking him for his ID and all sorts of questions. He didn't have his ID. I had approached them from behind so they didn't see me coming, their tone was hash and bullying in nature, the man was well dressed but was already shaking. I am a fight and not flight person. So I made my presense noticed and made eye contact with the cops. I was seeing a potential Rodney King scenario. When they sensed that I was there and ready to be a witness they toned down their aggression and reduced it to a fatherly lecture on crossing roads safely etc and they left. Despite the fact that they had failed to ID the man, they left. I went on the same bus with the guy and he never uttered a single word to me. He had been utterly humiliated and here was a BW he didn't know who came over sort of helped with the situation. I felt this man had been totally deballed, dehumanized etc and felt personally insulted.
Now fast foward three years,This last Sunday, I came across this Black kid on a Sunday morning on the subway being Manhandled by 2 cops while another stood on the side as if looking out for any potential witnesses. I saw the first cop before approaching the entire scene, he was white and he seemed abit startled when he saw me approach, when I came around the corner I understood why he had acted strangely. There was this kid slammed against the wall being aggressively questioned. You know what I did? I didn't give the scene a second look, I kept walking and only looked back once and saw the other cop looking a little more relieved that I had chosen to mind my business. I later on reflected on the scene and I thought. "Yeah, this is where we are now, look the other way".
Frankly the way things are I don't give a rat's ass for the BM's progress or acquisition of more power than he has already. That power is barely going to benefit the BW, it may actually be used to destroy her like we see the entertainment industy doing.
Sad but the true reality is that ironically the BW maybe better off in the White Supremist system as it is of now.
We have seen what freedom for the BM gets for the BW, I would be interested to know given the realities of BM support of the BC todate, how many BW would want even more freedom for the BM. Ofcourse I am too 'biased' to take that poll."
Something struck me as very poetic about this post.
I have been there myself so maybe that's why.
The worse thing is that some how these BM feel entitled to have our support.
There was this black guy on the London tube and as i was about to buy myself a train ticket he (not so politely) asked (more like demanded) me giving him 20 pence because he was short of money.
I guess it was the way he asked and me having a bad day but i said "no,sorry" and then he asked again as i was pulling out my wallet and i said with a firm and not so nice tone "No." and kind of gave him a not so friendly look. And he looked shocked as i walked away, like he couldn't believe i had just done that.
Not a big issue but it was the way he thought i would fall for his "charm" and the way he just kind of expected me to hand over the money to him - a stranger!.
I just hate the way black guys and other men/women as well think that black girls will fall ofr ANY black guy no matter how ugyly he is! he can look like road killb ut because he is black i as a black girl must want him.
it's sickening.
people need to wake fvck up because when they realise black girls don't want black men they will be gobsmacked lol
"I guess it was the way he asked and me having a bad day but i said "no,sorry" and then he asked again as i was pulling out my wallet and i said with a firm and not so nice tone "No." and kind of gave him a not so friendly look. And he looked shocked as i walked away, like he couldn't believe i had just done that.
Not a big issue but it was the way he thought i would fall for his "charm" and the way he just kind of expected me to hand over the money to him - a stranger!."
S,
I swear I should stop going out on Sundays. I meet these fools all the time on Sundays.
BM see a BW and they immediately don't see the boundaries and the reality that they don't actually know you.
I just met one well dressed guy today. Normally I avoid eye contact with these men. I see a BM and I look straight ahead. This one came close and greeted me. I passed him then he turned and followed me. He was clean and didn't look like a pan handler. He told me he was new in town and needed 2 dollars to hav eat meal at the Chinese first food. I normally don't give people money just like that. But having been jobless and starving on the street once, I empathized and gave him 2 dollars.
Guess what the fool did, he proceeded to offer me his cell phone number and name and asked me to call him! Imagine the nerve!
He did actually go to the Chines restaurant to eat.
But can you imagine that? Do you think he would have done that to a White woman ? No, its the BW you go to when you are needy and the White one when you are doing well.
Menalik,
write whatever the heck you want as you will only look like the pathetic insecure fool that you are. This only proves that what I have said got to you deeply. And to be honest, I'm patting myself on the back for striking your nerve.
people need to wake fvck up because when they realise black girls don't want black men they will be gobsmacked lol Exactly, I agree. It's this arrogant attitude that we are supposed to worship BM and support them right or wrong. Just like the OJ thing years ago. I wasn't considered "Black" because I thought he was guilty. It's the same mentality now. BM don't own us and we don't own them.
Let me stop since my conversation is turning into a tit for tat.
Lormarie said:
This only proves that what I have said got to you deeply. And to be honest, I'm patting myself on the back for striking your nerve.
Menelik said:
wanna play games with an analyst-in-training, eh? Ever heard of 'displacement'? Those words should have been directed at someone else on here as you sure as hell know lol
You will wait...it will come! You support a man who advocates the beating and killing of Black people...your friend LEE of the fascist and racist BNP!
The only reason he was civil to you was because YOU started off being civil to him!!!!!
Truly, truly, awful!
menelik charles
london england
I know I am late to comment on this subject, but last week I participated in a book discussion and there were men invited. I told my girlfriends who insisted that we needed to hear the male point of view that often:
1. Men do not really want to hear what we have to say.
2. The convo usually becomes about them and their issues.