Transformers II is now out in movie theaters. There is a bit of controversy surrounding the new movie. Two characters Mudflap and Skid, are getting Jar Jar Binks negativity.
Here is what is getting people up in arms according to this site:
These new robots, who begin the film conjoined as a shitty old ice cream truck but who soon get upgraded into Chevy concept cars, seem to be the most extreme racial caricatures seen in a movie in decades. The Twins have a simian appearance, with wide faces and huge ears. One of them (full disclosure: I am not sure which is which, namewise. This isn't a problem limited to just these robots in Transformers 2 as I couldn't tell most robots apart, except for Optimus Prime and Bumblebee) has a gold bucktooth. They have a 'playful' back and forth relationship, which includes them talking in some sort of modern day rap-age jive, calling each other 'bitch-ass' or 'punk,' talking with an exaggerated, crunked-up 'street' accent. They appear to be stoned all the time. And they can't read; when asked to translate some ancient Cybertronian language they sheepishly admit they 'don't do much readin'.' To be fair, only Primes can read this language, but even the completely idiotic mini-bot (and Italian stereotype) Wheelie can at least recognize what the writing is. The Twins are completely illiterate, it seems. I was actually surprised that the film didn't find a way to make them wear a Transformers version of baggy pants.
Now, I have not seen the movie, but it sounds kind of suspect. People were already questioning the role of Jazz in the first movie. In the first movie Jazz appears to be the "black" autobot who is really good at breakdancing. He is the only autobot to die. I thought this was suspect, I mean, why does the black autobot have to be good at dancing and die, but I overlooked it, as my husband was already freaked out over the inaccuracies of the autobots in comparison to the cartoon of his childhood. Not to mention it was good to see Darius McCrary from Family Matters working.
I don't know if I will be able to overlook Mudflap and Skids though. Illiterate, gold tooth, jive talking autobots? That is a bit much. My husband is already disgusted that Michael Bay has the chance to destroy all things good with Transformers, a childhood favorite, how do I cope with a gold tooth, illiterate, jive talking robots?
33 comments:
As I read this and I got to part where they couldn't read I laughed.
I know that sounds bad, but I thought it was funny that they painstakingly made sure that the Negro-Bot was uneducated.
Hidden racism?
Yeah I know it sounds like a stretch, but I think it is in an innocent way. Even so, it doesn't or shouldn't be a pass for entertainment.
But what can you say when Will Smith played Hancock; one of the most racist modern movies ever.
i saw transformers on opening night, and while i can see why people would feel very suspicious that the twin robots in the movie could be a racial stereotype, i think that's just reaching.
i mean, they could easily be stereotypes for white, suburban, wannabe-gangsta boys as much as anything else.
"hidden racism" seems to be just another way of saying you're looking for something that might not be there, and probably isn't. michael bay, steven spielberg, or even paramount, aren't trying to instill prejudice into a movie about anthropomorphic robots. what would be the point, really? if anything WAS racially offensive in the movie, then it's completely by accident at worst, and all in your imagination at best.
that said, i loved the movie. shia lebeouf isn't one of my favorite actors, but the story is awesome (and megan fox is hott). i grew up playing with the old hasbro toy models and watching the cartoon on saturday mornings. siditty, can't see why your husband felt that they ruined the franchise, because i think they made it even better. has he seen it? don't wanna give out spoilers, but the fight sequences are really well done, and optimus is his amazingly cheesy self. peter cullen can do no wrong with his voice-acting skills. the tension is drawn out, and while a lot of the acting isn't as great as your average off-broadway play, it's still passable for a movie that doesn't depend on acting-skills so much as action.
@rippa: random question, but how is hancock racist?
Can't read. CAN'T READ? F'real?!?
Where is the logic in that? I mean they are robots for Pete's sake, beable to decipher letters and symbols that make up words in sentences should be a part of your programing. But of course, they are the "black" robots, so by default they have to be ign'ant!
I've heard so many bad things about Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. This is Bad Boys 2 all over again. Has Michael Bay ever made a good action sequel?
I intend to see the movie tomorrow myself so I can't speak with any level of certainty on the movie's sticking to the original mythology, but what I will say is that the actual cars that are Mudflaps and Skidz are conceptually street racers aka "Tuners" and I think their personas might be more reflective of the real life humans that drive them and no matter the color we all see people in these cars doin' their best to come off as what society/media "tells us" being black is. And we've all seen these clowns when they pull up next to us at a red light, white, Asian, black, otherwise.
It is a shame, but as RiPPa said it's a bit on the comedy side too - laughing at - not with - as long as you're laughing at the right thing.
@Zek:I call it hidden racism because of the subtleties and presence of racial or racist undertones. Sure it may not meant to be implied intentionally to demean Black folks. But it still doesn't mean that said racial or racist undertones - which permeate society - isn't present with these characters.
The problem is, characterizations such as these are intended to be hip and cool, and representative of a culture - namely hip hop - but it's not cool by any means.
You may call it reaching, but if that's what you think, I guess the same could be said for early 20th century Blackface acts as well.
Oh, if you wanna understand where I'm coming from with the movie Hancock....
click HERE
i mean, they could easily be stereotypes for white, suburban, wannabe-gangsta boys as much as anything else.
But who are those white gangsta boys imitating? Why the gold tooth?
Hidden racism doesn't always mean you are stretching, reaching, or searching for racism; it just means it isn't the KKK is going to lynch you and call you the n-word overt racism. I see hidden racism all the time, and just because a white person doesn't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't racism.
The biggest problem with race relations today, is people don't want to acknowledge racism exists, unless it is overt, any other time it is "all in your head", which is really just blaming the victim.
i mean, they could easily be stereotypes for white, suburban, wannabe-gangsta boys as much as anything else.
But who are those white gangsta boys imitating? Why the gold tooth?
Hidden racism doesn't always mean you are stretching, reaching, or searching for racism; it just means it isn't the KKK is going to lynch you and call you the n-word overt racism. I see hidden racism all the time, and just because a white person doesn't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't racism.
The biggest problem with race relations today, is people don't want to acknowledge racism exists, unless it is overt, any other time it is "all in your head", which is really just blaming the victim.
"Hidden racism doesn't always mean you are stretching, reaching, or searching for racism; it just means it isn't the KKK is going to lynch you and call you the n-word overt racism. I see hidden racism all the time, and just because a white person doesn't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't racism."
EXACTLY!
And this is why institutionalized racism will always exist. It's as simple as throwing a job application into the trash to favor a more Euro-centric sounding name.
We don't see it, but it happens.
"And this is why institutionalized racism will always exist. It's as simple as throwing a job application into the trash to favor a more Euro-centric sounding name."
People have become so good at hidding racism that I am absolutely convinced its going no where.
I am in a middle of a discrimination case that I can't talk about much.
But what I have encountered is that with lawyers, a good disrimination case is when the N word has been used or a noose hung. Blatant stuff like that.
Purposefuly sabotaging one and advancing their less qualified peers' consistently first may not count as discrimination.
People have become extremely clever about it that I am not quick to dismiss claims of racism as over reaching because I have experienced it first hand at play and its real. And the worst people in my experience have been non Black minorities, this behavior in the end endears them to the White Boss.
A white person in the same position will be extremely careful. But a minority will fall back on being a minority and therefore can not be racist.
They talk of New racism but we have Reniewed racism which I believe is the type in this movie. Get robots and project the stereotypes on them, then do whatever you want with them.
Then there is Recycled racism.
I decided to come up with Recycled racism after I watched Bill Maher make a Joke about Obama's African brother. Something about him running around the White House with a skull on a stick. The audience was totally entertained by that one.
So now white liberals can make racist jokes about Africans and its Okay, even if its the President's brother. But a no no when its an AA. Is that acceptable? I never heard any one raise the issue on that joke.
If you want to see a liberal's true feelings on race, ask him of his views on Africa and VOILA!
They are only 'tolerant' to the "civilized" blacks.
@rippa: well, seems to me that you forgot in your post that black panther was the first black superhero (at least, in the beginning it seems), and second, that there ARE positive black superheroes, like Doctor Mist and the Green Lantern (the John Stewart incarnation) and what about Storm, for crying out loud? i mean, it seems like you're deliberately ignoring the positively portrayed black superheroes, just to focus on a negative one...
but that's a bit off-topic. sorry.
@siditty: they're a caricature of popular culture. it's not a representation of a representation of a stereotype of a black subculture. i mean, second generation racialism? that's why i call it reaching. it's looking for something to be offended at.
not trying to blame the victim, because i don't really see a victim. the only ones who are hurt - in this specific case - are the people who actually act like that in real life (which in my experience has been mostly dumb suburban white kids, and a small sample of other uneducated minorities - asians, latinos, blacks, etc).
if that's who you intend to defend however, then by all means. i could see the logic in your reasoning in that case.
@grata: i think you're giving bill maher no credit for the fact that he makes fun of EVERYONE, and then you build that up to suddenly include all "white liberals", as if bill maher was representational of every single one. (he's a libertarian by the way, which is a difference as you know.)
this is also reaching, in my opinion. which brings me back to the main point of the post: does transformers contain hidden racism? i still think it does not, at least, not intentionally. this is simply based off my experience with the story-line and the characters, and entire universe of transformers. if anything, it's about tolerance and cooperation to combat a greater evil. we can see this easily in the struggles between the robots and humans to work together, come to an understanding, and fight off the evil decepticons.
have you seen the movie grata? or had any experience with the transformers franchise? because i think that would help you to understand this particular scenario.
also, i'm curious, how would you then describe my true feelings on race if i told you that my opinion on africa is that it's just one big continental tragedy.
"@rippa: well, seems to me that you forgot in your post that black panther was the first black superhero (at least, in the beginning it seems), and second, that there ARE positive black superheroes, like Doctor Mist and the Green Lantern (the John Stewart incarnation) and what about Storm, for crying out loud? i mean, it seems like you're deliberately ignoring the positively portrayed black superheroes, just to focus on a negative one..."
Did you even click the link and read my post on Hancock? Whatever you posted as a response has no relation to anything I wrote as it pertains to the stereotypes which persist in that movie.
Just came back from that movie, almost 3 hours of epic race,gender, stereotype, and tired-ass movie plot device/trope fail from trailers (including the Airbender debacle and Twilight's save-the-innocent-white-girl-from-the-scary-black-dreadlocked-vampire-who-says-he-has-no-self-control-in-her-presence clip) to end credits.
My bf is usually oblivious to things like that and even he knew it was fucked up without any prompting, prodding, or influence from me.
It's the same story--Sam, the great human hope, must save the good robots so they can save mankind from the bad ones--just with longer transformation sequences and a new "must get before they do" item. Girlfriend screams his name a lot between jiggles. Latino guy can't keep his mind off sex or stop speaking Spanish. Tyrese looks mad; the other military guy tells him to chill. Stuff gets blown up. World is saved with some foreshadowing in case they want another sequel. Hasbro has inspiration for new marketing, tie-ins, and spin-offs.
@ Zek:
The injection of comics in to this discussion is interesting. As far as Marvel goes, Professor X and Magneto were intended to represent Dr. King and Malcom X, respectively, in Stan Lee's race allegory.
Unfortunately, Storm has been rendered less African and/or black since her inception. Another blog pointed out why she might be more damaging than uplifting in the manner you suggest. In recent years, they have made her weak in both the comic book canon and movieverse cannon.
Would you say that Spawn (formerly a non-burnt Al Simmons) is a positively or negatively portrayed black superperson? Do you think that his mask potentially puts him in a position for readers to "not see him as black" because his "real" face is gone?
I'm not asking to trip you up--I haven't had anyone to talk comics with in a long time. =)
"also, i'm curious, how would you then describe my true feelings on race if i told you that my opinion on africa is that it's just one big continental tragedy."
And you would base that conclusion on what? Have you been to Africa to sum it up as one big continental tragedy?
Your statement right there proves what I am talking about with liberals. Very typical. And yes I would question your views about race based only that statement.
"have you seen the movie grata? or had any experience with the transformers franchise? because I think that would help you to understand this particular scenario."
Oh no, I haven't and don't wish to now that there are questions surrounding it. Reaching? Hmmm why am I not surprised with your position.
"@grata: i think you're giving bill maher no credit for the fact that he makes fun of EVERYONE, and then you build that up to suddenly include all "white liberals", as if bill maher was representational of every single one. (he's a libertarian by the way, which is a difference as you know.)"
I stand corrected Maher is Libertarian. Though I wonder why he is often refered to as Liberal.
Oh and he is not the first "liberal" I have seen with that attitude. There plenty in blogosphere who channel their racism to Africans or Africa the continent. They are safe in that zone because no one is going to stand up to them. Zimbabwe is their favourite cause.
Your response about Africa is therefore typical and not surprising. You will run your typical statistics, run a list of dictators and the poverty and disease issues that are highlighted by Western Media. Thinking all along that you are well informed. And then turning around and claiming to be supportive of minority issues.
@rippa: yes, i did read the link, which is why i said that in the beginning of it, you made it seem like hancock is the first black superhero - but he isn't - and then later you acknowledged black panther, but without saying that he is the first black superhero - which he is.
i may not know what it's like to be black in america, but i do know comics... and sci-fi, fantasy, graphic novels, cartoons, anime, etc.
and what i said does pertain to the stereotypes in that movie, because your whole argument hinged on the fact that they portrayed a popular black superhero with negative characteristics, which is why you called it racist. but since positive black superheroes DO exist (and many of them way before hancock was even conceived) to say that this always happens and why can't you get a real superhero like superman seems to be a little narrow-minded on regards to the world of superheroes. also! hancock is not racist just because they portrayed a black superhero like that in the film. how many times have we seen white superheroes with emotional/intellectual problems and even "anti-hero" status? off the top of my head i can think of V, john constantine (who's gay in addition to being a chain smoker/a$$hole) wolverine, rorschach, the punisher, and so on.
would you be more pissed if the industry decided to make any of THOSE superheroes/comic-book characters black instead of hancock? because if hancock's comparitively minor instabilities made you feel like there was "hidden racism", then maybe i should be raging against the jewish intolerance present in the portrayal of magneto (who does often act like an anti-hero in many of the later comics, despite his well documented status as a villain).
@digitalcoyote: you didn't like the movie? think maybe the trailers put you in a bad mood, and that's why. i'll admit, the airbender trailer has me worried too, but lucky for me they didn't show the twilight one (which i agree could definitely be racist - by accident - just because they make the black guy the only one who succumbs to his hunger)
what you said about comics is interesting. read through that link, and while she made a convincing argument, i'm still not convinced. everyone knows that characters go through cycles in their portrayals. i mean, cyclops has gone from being the classic all-american good guy to suddenly being a bit shady. but i can see why she's unhappy with this direction because of the importance she puts on storm as a character representation of a black female fantasy.
eventually though, they'll change it around, because with her marriage to black panther, i'm sure they're going to exploit her african heritage to come up with new stories.
@grata: you're never surprised with my opinions, which seems a very passive-aggressive way of saying, "i knew you'd say that."
i'm glad i can fulfill your expectations regarding liberals and their positions on race, because while you admit bill maher doesn't represent liberals anymore, i TOTALLY do now. right?
i call it a continental tragedy because most of africa is very very sad. it has been raped and pillaged and exploited and yet still managed to produce things of such beauty you have to wonder where the people could have found it. however, i've never been to africa, but the beauty that i've seen has been in the people i've met who are from there (cameroon, sierra leone, burundi, and rawanda).
have you been to africa, grata?
i would question your intelligence on making an assumption about my beliefs based on one observation. have you always been this judgmental? or is it a recent development to some perceived slight from the world?
or is it because you feel safe in the zone of yelling at people for what you see as hypocrisy by committing hypocrisy of your own?
i guess it's better than that you don't bother to get educated on the issue in this post, because it makes your rant that much more difficult to deconstruct when it doesn't make sense.
"i think you're giving bill maher no credit for the fact that he makes fun of EVERYONE,"
I missed responding to this. So a person who makes fun of everyone should be allowed to make racist jokes? I guess then we overreacted with Imus.
Maher would have never made a stereotypical joke like that if Obama's brother was African American. That is the racism I call recycled. Can't direct it at AAs but Africans are game sice no one is going to defend them.
@Zek: I'm not going to debate semantics. I'll just ask: not counting "Blank Man" is "Hancock" not the 1st Black superhero to grace the big-screen? Secondly, was "Hancock" not representative of the many stereotypes of Black men?
You answer those questions honestly and get back to me.
"i call it a continental tragedy because most of africa is very very sad. it has been raped and pillaged and exploited and yet still managed to produce things of such beauty you have to wonder where the people could have found it. however, i've never been to africa, but the beauty that i've seen has been in the people i've met who are from there (cameroon, sierra leone, burundi, and rawanda)."
So you have met some Africans therefore you can't be racist towards them? Is this the new "I have a black friend" line? Man, your condenscetion has no limits.
"have you been to africa, grata?"
LOL! How about, its my HOME.
"i would question your intelligence on making an assumption about my beliefs based on one observation."
Ofcourse you would. Your condescending self would always question the intelligence of someone like me. That is expected. LOL!
"have you always been this judgmental? or is it a recent development to some perceived slight from the world?"
Oh dear, now we are getting personal and psychoanalytic ? Save your skills for someone else.
"or is it because you feel safe in the zone of yelling at people for what you see as hypocrisy by committing hypocrisy of your own?"
The hypocrisy jab. This is thrown around too much that it no longer has any meaning. Therefore you lost me. Or maybe I am not intelligent enough to catch the meaning.
"i guess it's better than that you don't bother to get educated on the issue in this post, because it makes your rant that much more difficult to deconstruct when it doesn't make sense."
Hahahaha. Dude, this is you at your condescending best. Educated about Transformers? Hmmm, I will pass on that one.
Carry on with your 'intelligent' conversation in which as usual your deconstruction of what are seen as racist incidents by blacks are simply overreactions or 'reaching'.
BTW did you notice that I never said much about the movie but rather the idea of hidden racism? I don't need to have an education in comic characters to talks about hidden racism, do I?
I notice that you are into debating by following the rules of logic. Maybe you need to practise your newly acquired knowledge by taking apart people's arguments but don't try to pass yourself off as having any empathy for the Black cause. You just don't have it. And that is OK too.
Leave it to you Zek to say racism is all in people's minds. You really are funny. I started to pass your post up, but then thought maybe he won't say something dismissive. I was wrong.
SIMONE
@Zek:
re: move trailers
I don't think the Twilight trailer is accidental. The same clip had her being attacked by a white vampire, but wasn't cut in such a fashion to linger on the attacker so you could get a good look at who he was. She was saved by the other beastly person---the Native American werewolf---who is a dramatic foil to her sunlight-allergic love interest. I'll concede that they did not help. At the same time, 3 minutes cannot outweigh more than two and a half hours of input.
The movie's plot was such that it had little to stand on and was filler between extended shaky cam scenes with little innovation. It's rather ironic that the director spent so much time showcasing the poster for Bad Boys 2, another sequel of his, because it suffers from the same visual disease.
Given how many people under thirty were asleep in the theatre around hour two, I'm pretty sure it wasn't just me. I'm not the only one that thought it was bad it it's holding around 22% (67% if you only count the open community and not the critics) on Rotten Tomatoes. A "D" may get you through school, but I wouldn't rely on it for conveying the quality of anything.
re: comics
"i mean, cyclops has gone from being the classic all-american good guy to suddenly being a bit shady. but i can see why she's unhappy with this direction because of the importance she puts on storm as a character representation of a black female fantasy."
Did they make him less WASP-y looking as part of that change? Besides, Scott has always been a tool (both definitions applicable).
It's not just the change in her personality: it's the change in her demeanor along with the change in her physical appearance. Logan, after many iterations, plot twists, devolution, etc., still looked like Logan. He also looks like himself irrespective of who draws him.
Judging from the pictures the blogger used as evidence, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to identify the "sharp featured" version of Storm as African. Her physical appearance has always been integral to her struggle IE going from all powerful weather goddess to being worthless in America because of her color and being a mutie.
This is an issue if they're going to rely on her as proof of diversity. It is an issue if you're going to count her as a "positive" black superhero but ignore considered all which that entails, good and bad.
Why is Storm held up "as a character representation of a black female fantasy"? You say that like she was plucked from our own imaginations. Storm was sold to women of color as a black African (or as botch African and African-American) woman first and foremost through all of her transformations, even the punk phase. If such an iconic character is no longer black, it sends a horrible message. If we approach it from the context that she is the fantasy black female of a white male mind, it's still disturbing.
You have been quick to dismiss the blogger's argument (as well as many others) as simply a problem that they project because they care too much about something. I suspect this is easy if it doesn't affect you directly or cannot/does not impact how you are seen. That's a luxury.
Many of the issues that Sid tackles on her blog arise from incidents that come in to being because of what some people are comfortable with (setereotypes, for example). If they perpetuate it(because it was ok/non-offensive to them, it's ok to share), it reinforces it (sharing so blatantly must mean that the original assumption is correct and that it's ok to share if others are doing it) and makes it widely acceptable to those same unaffected folks over time.
The intersectionality of much of what is being discussed on Sid's blog isn't invisible nor does saying you (as a person who is not affected in any significant way) don't see it mean it's not there or that it will go away.
P.S. You also didn't answer any of the questions I put to you regarding "Spawn."
-- DC
There is no discussing race and discrimination with Zek because he does not get it, at all. It is only a reality to minorities who deal with racism on a regular basis. That is why it is easiy for us to see racial undertones in movies, books, or anything else in life because we are usually the target. I guess Zek thinks if he gives us his logic on racism, which you can't because racism is illogical, that he will have helped us to see the light. Having a white guy who probably has never been discriminated against argue with blacks about us "reaching" when it comes to talking about racism is comical.
SIMONE
@rippa: does responding "honestly" to you mean agreeing with you?
hancock is not the first black superhero to grace the big screen (besides blank man, as you said). you forgot spawn. also known as al simmons.
hancock could be a bunch of different stereotypes. you're focusing on his skin color as if that's the only part of him the audience sees. he could be an anti-hero sterotype, or the origin-search stereotype. hell, his emotional problems are relatable to blacks, whites, browns, and yellows.
i don't see this as semantics so much as what hancock really represents. true, that is debatable and up to each person to decide for themselves, but i think you're truly misunderstanding the character if you look at hancock and think, "this guy is a hidden racist stereotype" instead of, "this guy is a troubled soul, but he's been gifted with such incredible powers."
or something like that.
@grata: i'm not condoning - or condemning - bill maher's jokes. i'm just pointing out the difficulty of calling someone a racist when they make fun of everyone, including themselves. it's not prejudice so much as their prevalent worldview. he sees everything as grounds for comedy, for laughter, for laughing at ourselves and each other. maybe that isn't something you enjoy, but it's hardly something to hate and get angry about.
would you be just as upset about the jokes he makes about jews or hispanics or even asians?
my "line" about africa is my own personal experience. if you want to encapsulate it into something you're more comfortable condeming, then i guess go ahead... but that seems to leave out a lot of shades and complexity.
i'm not racist because i don't see skin color as a big deal. there are for more important, and fundamental aspects of a person to look at. but that's not really what you're asking is it? because if this is your lead in to the "try and turn the white guy into a closeted racist" line, i wouldn't be surprised.
see, now i am going to be condescending because you assume i am this or that or something else that you've experienced, but you don't know me anymore than i know you (which is why i asked if you've been to africa, because how the hell should i know?) you persist in making judgmental statements about my character like you know me - which is okay, if you're a judgmental person (i just wish you'd admit it) - which is why i am making personal, psychoanalytic statements now; so i can understand why it is you're acting the way you do, and say the things you do, that are completely ignorant of who i am.
also, i don't see how you're going to go completely off-topic to talk about what YOU want to talk about, when the post was about transformers and whether it contains racist over/subtones. i mean, that's like going into someone's house and changing the channel without even asking. you don't need an education in comics to know that either. but you do need to know something about transformers if you're going argue whether or not it's racist.
and yes, i am a little into debate. was in debate club in high school, but that was a long time ago. mostly i'm just into coherency, consistency, and intellectual hospitality. logic is a useful tool to gain understanding.
also, i never said i was empathetic to the "black cause." i don't even really see one. i just see a human cause, an everyone cause. maybe i just don't see color like you do; not looking for skin tones, but for genuinity.
Zek,
What I genuinely do not get is that if you do not see racism as being more of a minority issue then WHY are you arguing with others about their position when they are black, they do/have experience the racism and can readily identify the nuances when they see it? YES, admittedly some can be too sensitive and call everything racism, but the issue I am having with you is that you will not even entertain the idea - since you are not subject to the daily realities of such racism every day from birth to no - that maybe just MAYBE the folks here have a valid point that you need to consider. They just might. Everything is NOT just the human condition - US slavery, the holocaust, putting people of Asian descent on crack down, punishing those of Latino descent lets me know that racism is not just in large a human condition. For some it is worse and more pervasive than others. YOU may not want to deal with the nuances, and I have a feeling that you don't see any and if you don't then in your mind they MUST not exist. To each their own.
I am going to be honest, when i saw it in the theaters I was hyped.
When the twin robots come on, I thought they were imitating kids, so I paid it no mind, then I noticed how they were talking, I was a little annoyed by it, but I paid no attention to them. Then towards the end when they were in the movie a little more, I stopped paying attention to them, period.
When sid, mentioned it on twitter, I didn't think anything of it.
I usually pick up on shit like that.
In the first movie, I did notice the Jazz character and how he was the only one to get killed (as usual).
Besides, the two annoying robots the movie was good, especially Shia. ;)
Is that wrong of me to say? *shrugs*
Yes, the Black robots in Transformers 2 are based off of the urban Black male, and yes, Black people are aghast that this would be how Black robots are depicted in the film. To quote Kurtz,"the horror, the horror." One of the Black 'bots even has "grillz".Black people love to act Black, but they don't like to have a mirror held up so that they can see how their actions look on film. It hurts their feelings.
One of the Black person inspired robots does actually say, "don't do much readin," which must be inspired by the literacy rate in Detroit, where reportedly 50 percent of the population can't read.
Black people are horrified when reality is shown on film, instead of a fabricated lie and the portrayal of Black robots is just too much truth for the Black community. The negative depiction of Black robots is a disgusting reminder of the brutal truth Black people have been trying to suppress: that Black people aren't all as articulate and charming as Barack Obama.
Amanda,
Honestly are you that mentally challenged? Seriously? I cannot fathom you walking around saying black people can't read as you come to a blog (a website made up of words) by a black woman with a large black audience. Most black people can read.
The worst part is you come to a blog in which I just recently did a book review. Amanda, I probably read more books in one month, than you have in your whole entire lifetime. You seem grossly uneducated and ignorant.
In terms of how I act? You would be surprised Amanda, but I don't have any gold teeth, nor do I speak ebonics. I know this is crazy, but no one in my family does. My mother is a teacher, she shuns such things.
Do you speak redneck?
@siditty: they're a caricature of popular culture. it's not a representation of a representation of a stereotype of a black subculture.
Zek,
Amanda who just posted is prime example of how racism works. You can call it reaching, but it shows to me you have no want or desire to understand how racism works in America from the perspective of black people. You really are no more than a step away from Amanda in your thinking, which scares me. She thinks those robots actually represent black people, just like many whites think BET is the channel that reflects all black people.
What should be considered offensive. From your last few responses, nothing should be considered offensive. I should expect to be called the n-word, have people assume that I am illiterate and cannot read, that I live in poverty, and get hand outs all day long for the simple basis that I am intellectually inferior to white people based upon my skin color.
The difference between you and me is you see racism as perfectly ok and not affecting anyone.I see racism as a means to continually oppress whole groups of people, even if on a small level. The perception that people like Amanda have isn't rare, in fact I am thinking it is the norm. If people think it is ok to assume blacks are illiterate and unable to be on the same mental capacity of white people, that hinders black people, regardless of actual mental capacity to be denied basic common courtesy of being talked to like normal person. It also denies them jobs, which denies them opportunities to get out of a lower socio-economic status, which causes a vicious cycle of oppression steeped deep in slavery and Jim Crow. You don't understand that because you have the luxury of not doing so. I grew up upper middle class, and I know that the poorest, trashiest person like Amanda will still think I am inferior to her, even if I make more money, have a better education, and have a higher IQ.That is racism. My skin color in her mind gives her authority to talk down to me, even if I or if most black people do not fit into the perception of what is black.
Maybe you and Amanda can have a discussion on race relations?
also, i'm curious, how would you then describe my true feelings on race if i told you that my opinion on africa is that it's just one big continental tragedy.
I would say that is based upon ignorance and a sense of superiority. Africa like most of the world was colonized, depleted of resources, and basically left for dead. Many of the nations of Africa have relatively new independence and have not been established for centuries like much of Europe and America. America 40 years into it's inception was not well established, why would I expect any other country to be that way?
Africa needs to be re-colonised. $#%@ political correctness becuase it is one of the reasons problems do not get attention. It is very sad but all of Africa is a total basket case. In honesty Africa was better off under white Colonial rule. The African political oligarchs use the top-down method and screw their own people over for power and monetary gains. Throw in tribalism, nepotism and corruption and you have Africa. There is no solution to Africa’s problems unless they accept Colonial rule.
Amanda, you truly are simple. Do you think anyone takes you seriously? Your techniques are childish. You need to become more sophisticated and subtle in your attempts at faux racism. Right now you're just funny - in a "bad joke" kind of way. My cat could do a better job of race-baiting than you do. And you call yourself a human! But keep at it - you might improve.
Part 1
"maybe that isn't something you enjoy, but it's hardly something to hate and get angry about."
The hate word. WYou are quick to throw that out, I wonder why. Angry I accept but hate, that is your wishful thinking.
I have learnt that by calling someone hateful it gives one's conscience comfort to discriminate against them, which they would have done anyway without being given a reason. It gives you the right to further dehumanize them. Hmmm, so why again did you call me hateful?
So we are not supposed to react or get angry over abuse? Dude do you think before you write?
"would you be just as upset about the jokes he makes about jews or hispanics or even asians?"
If that joke was dehumanizing to the group in question, yes I would be offended. The controversial Burger King Ads showing mexicans as dwarfs was pretty offensive. They are off my list of Fast Food places as a result.
Making a stereotypical joke about the President's brother by making him a cannibal is seriously racist. I don't think you get it or ever will.
"my "line" about africa is my own personal experience."
Your personal experience being, having a brief encounter with a handful of Africans? How enlightening.
"because if this is your lead in to the "try and turn the white guy into a closeted racist" line, i wouldn't be surprised."
Oh no, I don't think I would call you closeted. I would call you ignorant of your own racism.
I am glad I met your expectations.
"you persist in making judgmental statements about my character like you know me - which is okay, - which is why i am making personal, psychoanalytic statements now;"
LOL! I don't know you but unless you are some kind of freak, what you write says alot about you. Feel free to make any conclusions about me. I expect people to judge me from what I write. I don't do the escapist thing of separating my writing from my persona or person. Alot of what one writes says alot about them.
"if you're a judgmental person (i just wish you'd admit it)"
Hehehe. I have admitted many times before that I am judgemental. So I am wondering what the purpose of this line was.
I am especially judgemental with people I consider to be harmful to teh Black person especially the woman and child. I hope that clears up alot for you.
"also, i don't see how you're going to go completely off-topic to talk about what YOU want to talk about, when the post was about transformers and whether it contains racist over/subtones".
Aren't you like the guest that starts making the house rules?
Transformers is a small aspect of a larger concept which happens to be Hidden racism. I chose to look at the bigger picture that is hidden racism. You choose to look at a close up of an incident that may or may not be hidden racism. So I don't see how off topic I am.
Incase you haven't noticed, I am a world view person. In most of my arguments I reference what is happening else where in the world as it relates to American issues. For African American culture, I will reference Africa alot because there is a historical and spiritual connection between what goes on there and what is happening in Black America.
If you are going to call me out for being "off topic", brace yourself.
"mostly i'm just into coherency, consistency, and intellectual hospitality. logic is a useful tool to gain understanding."
Logic is a useful tool to gain understanding?
Why is that not helping you?
Isn't one of the prerequisites to logical debate, the separation of any personal or emotional feelings?
What ever logical expalanation you are presenting here could easily be given by a computer if programmed to deconstruct arguments.
So you as a person can be become quickly irrelevant with only the possibility of being a Defence Attorney.
"also, i never said i was empathetic to the "black cause." i don't even really see one."
Now you say. And all along I thought there was some merit to reading your stuff.
Part2
" i just see a human cause, an everyone cause."
Well if all things were equal then it would be a human cause.
That is white privilage right there. The inability to see that not all humans in this society are treated equally and those that suffer the most discriminatory practises are blacks at the hands of everyone else. I guess you will call this an idea in the minds of Black people. But that is expected of you.
" maybe i just don't see color like you do; not looking for skin tones, but for genuinity."
The color blind line. Tell me you have never seen a black man on the street walking towards you and your system didn't go on the ALERT! LOL! See, if you can't have any empathy with the Black cause atleast have honesty with yourself.
"There is no solution to Africa’s problems unless they accept Colonial rule."
Hahahaha, Amanda the coward. Try saying that shit to an African's face.
America does not have, nepotism, tribalism ( whose master is racism), corruption and hungry people?
Ahh, simple minds. You make some of us look really good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Maybe you and Amanda can have a discussion on race relations?"
Good idea.
"Africa like most of the world was colonized, depleted of resources, and basically left for dead. Many of the nations of Africa have relatively new independence and have not been established for centuries like much of Europe and America. America 40 years into it's inception was not well established, why would I expect any other country to be that way?"
This is what racist myopia does to people. They fail to see that all is not good for the future of this country either. The rest of the world is catching up rapidly and not too far from now will take over the lead.
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