As you guys are all aware, I am OBVIOUSLY a black woman. Many times often than not I talk about race issues, but sometimes I think about gender issues. I used to be a member of NOW. I believe in equal rights for women and people of color. I understand the need for such organizations to exist due to racism and sexism in society, the workplace, and higher education. I know why Affirmative Action, benefits BOTH groups. I sympathize, I really do.
As you know from previous posts, I have questioned the feminist movement. This last presidential election made me question the movement. When you have icons like Geraldine Ferraro and Gloria Steinem making the statements they made about our now President, and their views of race and gender, it makes me sincerely wonder if the feminist movement is for white middle and upper class woman exclusively. Chastising Oprah for choosing the male candidate instead of the female one, it makes you wonder, is the feminist movement able to empathize with other groups and struggles? It feels as if they have forgotten about those of us who deal with more than just gender, but those of us who deal with race and poverty. Steinem herself was under the impression black men have it easier in life as they were given the right to vote before women, which as we all know due to poll taxes and voter tests, was not the case.
NOW is currently has two women campaigning for the organization's presidency. One is Latifa Lyles, who is already a Vice President-Membership of the organization, and if she is chosen she will be the youngest NOW president ever. I should also note she is a black woman. The other candidate is Terry O'Neill a former Vice President and attorney who serves on NOW's national board. She is not black.
I know I should be happy at the nomination for Latifa Lyles, but I can't help to think that even with all her accomplishments, this was a knee jerk reaction to NOW's suffering relationship with African American woman. Similar to Michael Steele's being chairperson of the Republican National Committee. I know both these people are accomplished, but as I can see with the RNC, Michael Steele apparently has no power and appears to be there for looks and nothing more, as it seems the RNC is ignoring him.
NOW for years has ignored African American woman and really don't seem to be able to relate to the unique struggles of black women in general. Now with the firestorm of controversy after this election, it makes me wonder, are they trying to make amends for this?
Do you think that if Ms. Lyles is elected President she will be actually treated with respect, or ignored like Mr. Steele? I often wonder if this is what tokenism truly is. Even with all these two have accomplished, does their skin color override everything else? Note I am not questioning their qualifications, they seem more than qualified, but I do question the authenticity of those who put in their positions of power. If these two organizations didn't have the perception of only focusing on the "mainstream" (read white), do you think they would be so eager to put people of color into these positions at all? Is this pandering to prove their diversity or a true choice for the position?
Is this why Affirmative Action fails? Even with all their accomplishments, you know that someone within their organizations is going to say, they were put there based solely on the color of their skin and that they are unqualified and undeserving, no matter how much they really deserve their positions. The racism will still come out. There are people in this world who sincerely think for every black person in the workplace or college, there is a white person who was jilted. These people will never truly question why they think or assume a white person is automatically more deserving than anyone else. Which then makes me think, is this why Affirmative Action is still needed?
69 comments:
Hey there Siddity!
I don't think that NOW will elect Latifa Lyles. The "rumor" has it that she just doesn't have the full confidence of the national board members who want someone who will bring "stature" to NOW.
NOW needs to also reconsider the evolving political platforms of both the white Latina groups and black Latina groups - rather than attempting to lump ALL Latinas together as if they ALL have the same political agenda.
I think that this publicity is just a way for NOW to regain some visibility among black women.
Since I am not a feminist...or a womanist... I suppose my lens is very different than black feminists or black womanists and THAT is quite obvious at my blog forum every day when I read the comment section! *LOL*
As for Affirmative Action...if we look at the statistics, white women are the group that benefited most from it...and the group that CONTINUES to benefit most from it.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
I am all about calling mainstream feminism out, but at a certain point, I also decided to STOP allowing it to be the defining marker for me for what feminism meant or could mean because groups like NOW are really representative of not much to me.
Still, I explicitly call myself a black feminist to make it clear that the term does not belong just to white women. Feminism is for EVERYBODY. We have to move on and continue feminist work by any other critically creative means available.
Thus, I work hard (like tons of other women) to experience feminism on my own terms and within critical, progressive, multicultural circles that I can create or become a part of with other feminist women of color, male allies and progressive white allies, etc.
Truly, I locate myself with an illustrious and LONG legacy of black feminist intellectual tradition and black feminist activism: Shirley Chisholm, Anna Julia Cooper, Amy Jacques Garvey, Audre Lorde, Beverly Guy-Sheftall, Ruby Sales, Maria Miller Stewart, bell hooks, Angela Davis, Ida Wells-Barnett, Alice Dunbar-Nelson, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on for black women I perceive as living out, on whatever terms available to them, a black feminist perspective!
If sisters want to fight the good fight in orgs like NOW to make inroads, I will support them for making a decision to work within the "system." Sometimes tokens, however they get there, can work to try to make a difference (albeit small), it depends on the constitution of the person at issue.
But my ideals of progress and inspiration stem from the above women I mentioned. It is the conduct of their lives that reminds and affirms for me that I can't separate my race from my gender and vice versa. They are heavily intertwined and so I start from there to begin the work of honoring and reinvigorating black womanhood/humanity at large.
Hi Siditty,
Have you read Renee at Womanist Musings? She has quite a bit to say about the feminist movement.
And if you're waiting for a personal invitation, please join us at Color Online. Share with us what you think. I have you in our blogroll and I enjoy visiting your site.
That is just pandering and tokenism.
We need to learn serious lessons from the Michael Steel incident. Just because they let you in does not mean you are in. Even Obama that is half white still gets that "you can never be one of us" push back even from his own party.
Like those old commentators said, a black person in this society must have two masks. One for the white world and one for the Black one and to know the difference between the two.
The mistake most Blacks make is to think that they can live with one mask for both worlds, be your black self and they should accept you as you are. Not going to happen.
That is why I don't get proponents of social integration. A Black person after suffering at the hands of whites for so long in this country needs a tremendous amount of space to recuperate. You need to be your Black self in your own environment. Therefore I don't get silly ventures like "Prom night in Mississippi". Who gains most from such ventures? I am guessing Black Men. The Black woman has very little to gain.
And please, I am aware of good white individuals and I even know some. But as a whole and a group this behavior is always present. The collective white conscience just seems to be incapable of seeing a black person as having equal capacities as their own and this is manifisted in ways we are seeing the way Obama and Steel are being treated. And the whole 'if it wasn't for Affirmative Action.....' attitude.
What comes to mind is that anon from the previous post that said Blacks through affirmative action end up in institutions of higher learning without the intellectual ability to handle the challenge. That is typical White group thinking. Blacks need to get used to the reality that most Whites think this way.
And I hate the business of tokenism even in TV shows. The black person or couple always looks out of place and people look like they are being forced to be around them. Whenever I see the lone black in a show, I cringe and end up not watching it thus defeating the whole purpose of the idea.
I do appreciate the White Women's struggle and what it has achieved for us even as Black Women but I don't think our struggles are the same or compartible.
White women can not relate to having their own men completely abandon them and their children and consider it as a choice.
Though they have struggled to prove their humanity, they have not struggled to see the little that is left slowly taken way by other groups of people with the support of their own men.
In short, White women have historically gained and continue to gain from the Black Woman's struggles. It therefore is not in their interest to see the Black WOman overcome. I am now left wondering what the hell BW are doing in that organization.
Black women's loyalty does not belong to the Black man nor the White woman. I don't know what BW are thinking with this self destructive behavior.
What comes first? The one you are most virulently persecuted for.
I doubt that NOW will elect Ms. Lyles. By doing so, it broadens their focus and, in a way, narrows it in the eyes of the majority of the group. I imagine that they will focus on her and insist that her goals will benefit "ethnic minorities," which is not their mission, even if this is not the case. In other words, it would be like how movies that do not prominently feature white main characters become "other" and are no longer mainstream, but niche entertainment, irrespective of their themes or content.
On the other hand, the fact that she was even included in the running for a leadership position benefits NOW politically. It says that non-white women exist in now and have the -chance- to be important. Doesn't that make you feel like they care about you? Isn't a chance to lead more important than not being thought of at all? How could you not feel that it makes up for years of ignoring your existence?
At the heart of the matter, NOW, like the GOP, saw the demographics of voters in the last few elections (the Presidential race being most important) and wants to put that to work for them. It also allows them to ride on President Obama's coattails by appearing to be "post-racial."
The demonization of Geraldine Ferraro by blacks proves how intolerant some blacks are of other opinions. She is entitled to her point of view and her opinion is valid. Obama would not have been so popular if he was a white male. He would have been just another white guy running for president and he probably would of lost to Hilary if he was white, IMO. Race always trumps gender when it come to democrats. Barack Obama’s life is drenched in race cynicism and racial identity. Barack Obama is where he is precisely because of his white and black parent combination. Obama has benefited from race to get ahead. So did Michelle Obama. “Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let’s address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up,” Ferraro said. Have to agree with Geraldine Ferraro – she is being attacked because she is white. Also, the name calling, the political correctness, is designed to shut up white people. Anyone else of any of a variety of skin-tones can say anything they like. What she said is her opinion which may or may not be true. Just like when you say white people all have white privilege. That is your opinion. Many whites may be offended by that, but that doesn't mean you're anti-white.
If you want to talk about the pervasive element of racism in the culture, we should first remember Sherman Hemsley aka George Jefferson of the Jeffersons in the late-70s, when it was widely regarded as comedy to call Tom Willis a honky.
it is funny to call whites honkies and crackers, and indeed, carlos mencia, chris rock, and other comedians have made careers out of ridiculing the white people of North America.
Amanda,
You could never understand why Geraldine Ferraro's "opinion" could be construed as racist. That is a benefit of your white privilege.
Race always trumps gender when it come to democrats.
I don't find that to be the case, case and point, white women's reactions or feigned ignorance to what Geraldine Ferraro said. Gender in your case trumps over race.
"Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let’s address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up"
This was racist because she assumed that Obama wasn't even in reality, and that he was ignorant to the problems facing this world, and that his blackness is the sole reason Barack got into the position he was in. Many white people like yourself automatically assume us black people no matter our background, or credentials, or experience are inferior to white people. It is as if your whiteness gives you automatic knowledge that us lowly black people can't comprehend, and if we do manage to get ahead, it is pity for our race that gets us there. That is why the statement is racist.
she is being attacked because she is white.
No she was attacked because what she said was racist.
Political correctness is needed so folks like you don't go around calling folks like me nigger. That is the truth, if we didn't have it, folks like you would have free range to call folks whatever the hell you want, whether offensive or not, without regards to understanding why what you say might be offensive.
Do you think that Sherman Hemsley, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia calling white people names negates the centuries of slavery and oppression. The subsequent lynchings and segregation. The rape, exploitation and murder can all be negated by George Jefferson calling Tom Willis a honkey?
I in everyday like don't go around calling people honkey, not even behind a white person's back, but I know many a white people who talk about blacks or mexicans, not to their face, but amongst each other.
bell hooks is another author you might want to read that addresses feminism and African American women. I am a fan of the blog also, and please continue to question and write.
-The Intellect-
yougottea.com
"The demonization of Geraldine Ferraro by blacks proves how intolerant some blacks are of other opinions."
What Geradine Ferraro said may not have been bad in itself but given the racial back ground against which she made the statement then it was bound to take on a life of its own.
It maybe true that if a white man was running he may have not been as popular as Obama. However given the racial tensions her statement may not only have been misinterpreted by Blacks but could also have been read as code by whites to not support the Black guy. And God knows white people are not above throwing the Black one under the bus if instructed to do so. That is why we have terms like "The Bradley Effect".
I personally didn't find her statement taken at face value as very offensive but placed on in the context that is American History it becomes troublesome.
"You could never understand why Geraldine Ferraro's "opinion" could be construed as racist. That is a benefit of your white privilege." And you can never understand why her opinion isn't racist. That is the benefit of your black privilege. The fact that they DID have a white Obama in the race - John Edwards - is proof of the proposition that he is viable ONLY because he is half-black. Edwards had the same Upton Sinclair mindset and smarmy rhetoric, but he was white with more experience, and he got <10% of the vote. Obama is the embodiment of affirmative action - unqualified but considered the leading candidate - the virtual logo of the Democrat Party. Ferraro won't back down, good for her, what she said was the truth.
"Do you think that Sherman Hemsley, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia calling white people names negates the centuries of slavery and oppression. The subsequent lynching's and segregation. The rape, exploitation and murder ." Oh please, shut the fuck up! Everybody on this planet have ancestors who were slaves and oppressed, that does not give someone the right to spew hateful non-sense. I guess southern Europeans have the right to hate blacks since African moors raped and murdered their ancestors. WAH, WAH, malcontent. Don't give me your fake oppression BS. You think you're dealing with some self-loathing white leftist.
Black folks were involved in Slavery way before white folks. Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the 300 years you talked about but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea. By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century.
As far as lynching,Robert Zangrando, cites statistics for the period of 1882–1968 in his book, The NAACP Crusade Against Lynching. Using figures from the Tuskegee Institute he finds a total of 4,742 for the 87-year period, of which 1,297 victims were white and 3,445 were black. Even though over a quarter of those lynched were white, this does not stop lynching from being described almost entirely in racist terms.
It is true that blacks were lynched more often than whites, but, as is the case today, blacks were also more likely to commit violent crimes, so even if lynching had been entirely race-blind, the number of executions would still have been racially unbalanced. Prof. Murphey, a blk prof from UCLA, who wrote a book about lynching, cites black homicide rates in 1921-22 for Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis and New Orleans per 100,000 that were 102.2, 97.2, 116.9 and 46.7 respectively. This corresponded to white rates of 15.0, 28.0, 29.6, and 8.4. According to Murphey, “These figures are eloquent testimony that serious crime was the primary provocation for lynching.” Even W.E.B. DuBois wrote disparagingly of "a class of black criminals, loafers, and ne'er-do-wells who are a menace to their fellows, both black and white."
Finally, it helps to keep lynching in proper perspective. The highest estimates of lynchings from after the Civil War until 1960 are around 5,000. This is hardly a remarkable level of violence for a 100-year period. Other blacks kill more blacks every year in America. Also, blacks have killed more than 5,00 whites in the past 40 years.
It was nice talking with you, my negro peasant , but I must go. Now get out your mop and wipe my floor. HAHAHAHAHA. Stupid Nappy Headed whore. Your man wants me!
And you can never understand why her opinion isn't racist. That is the benefit of your black privilege.
LOL Black privilege. Let me see my black privilege includes a shorter life expectancy, less pay for more work and education than my white male counterparts, the ability to have a harsher sentencing if I am convicted of a crime, the negative perception of stereotypes. Yay for me. Black privilege, it trumps white privilege every time!!!!! That was sarcasm if you couldn't tell.
The fact that they DID have a white Obama in the race - John Edwards - is proof of the proposition that he is viable ONLY because he is half-black.
John Edwards was a white Obama....hahahahaha. You forget something though, John got busted cheating on his wife, political suicide, Obama hasn't go busted cheating on Michelle.....yet. Never say never, but Edwards would have been at a handicap as a result of the controversy.
Obama is the embodiment of affirmative action - unqualified but considered the leading candidate -
Unqualified compared to what? Seriously let me know. You also fall under Affirmative Action, silly girl. White women are a protected class under the law and have benefitted from Affirmative Action way more than any other group. You are the ultimate proof of Affirmative Action, yet too stupid to understand you actually benefit from it. Sad and pathetic. Proves your racist ways.
Oh please, shut the fuck up! Everybody on this planet have ancestors who were slaves and oppressed, that does not give someone the right to spew hateful non-sense.
Remember this is MY BLOG, you can always leave if you don't like what I have to say. So tell me, when were your ancestors slaves? When were they subjected to segregation during Jim Crow? What schools did your parents attend that were segregated? What HWCU did you father attend because he was rejected from mainstream "all black colleges"?
By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865.
Black people did slavery, so it makes it ok in America. After 1865, you forgot the whole Jim Crow thing.....that counts as oppression too. My parents remember, do yours, or are you just some dumb ass.
It is true that blacks were lynched more often than whites, but, as is the case today, blacks were also more likely to commit violent crimes, so even if lynching had been entirely race-blind, the number of executions would still have been racially unbalanced.
I call bullshit. This is where you start to copy paste racist nonsense off of Front Page Mag here:
"would still have been racially unbalanced. Prof. Murphey, a blk prof from UCLA, who wrote a book about lynching, cites black homicide rates in 1921-22 for Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis and New Orleans per 100,000 that were 102.2, 97.2, 116.9 and 46.7 respectively. This corresponded to white rates of 15.0, 28.0, 29.6, and 8.4. According to Murphey, “These figures are eloquent testimony that serious crime was the primary provocation for lynching.” Even W.E.B. DuBois wrote disparagingly of "a class of black criminals, loafers, and ne'er-do-wells who are a menace to their fellows, both black and white."
Go get another source, dummy. You white racist idiots have nothing better to do than copy paste nonsense off of racist web sites and use it as fact.
Please quit quoting from Frontpagemag.com. It makes it painfully aware you have no objective purpose here but to spew racist bullshit. Stop it.
David Horowirtz isn't an objective source. Now it is my turn to tell you to shut the fuck up, as obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
It was nice talking with you, my negro peasant , but I must go. Now get out your mop and wipe my floor. HAHAHAHAHA. Stupid Nappy Headed whore. Your man wants me!
LOL...hahahahaha. The lady who cleans my house is white, just like you, and I am nappy headed, but never a whore though, that is reserved for folks like you. My man is white, and he wanted me over you....must hurt your feelings. A white man choosing a "negro peasant" over you.
if qualifications and experience were all it took to become POTUS, kerry beats bush in '04. so please, amanda, be fair when you compare edwards to obama. yes, policy wise, edwards and obama had lots in common as did clinton and obama. i agree when you say the main difference is that obama's black.
except as a reading, it's lazy and obtuse to color this a mere skin color issue. being black, and furthermore being black and succeeding in america, alters your experience of america that allows you, among so many other things, a perspective that others (as in white men and women) just don't have access to, a facility with communication and cross cultural translation that the white majority doesn't have access to.
i imagine this hurts a bit. not having access to something, in a world where white men and women are accustomed (though with some differences) to access to shit. but racial minorities in the states are now getting hip to the advantages of being a racial minority. sotomayor said it best when she made a comment about how her very puerto rican-ness gives her an egde; how growing up with difference, poverty, institutionalized obstacles, informs her decisions in ways not possible for white men.
she's saying, in, like, a seth godin kind of way, that it's all about the story. and it *is* all about the story and the ability to communicate on multiple levels (a requisite for success when you're not white) or, again, kerry beats bush hands down in '04!! we are only now experimenting with leveraging our coloredness. a freaking men.
it seems, after hundreds of years of access, unfair that this very particular social positioning, white people don't have access to. and sucks a little, i know.
By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865.
Yes, in "the United States" it lasted that long. But it began in the 1600's when the "the United States" were the American Colonies. That means slavery lasted over 200 years. More than twice as long as you claimed.
It was nice talking with you, my negro peasant, but I must go. Now get out your mop and wipe my floor…. Stupid Nappy Headed whore.
Its disgusting comments like these from White people which amply illustrate that no matter what humanist movement Blacks try to be part of in the name of campaigning for equal rights for all, Whites will never see Black people even remotely human and why things will never change. They cannot see past their own belief that they are undoubtedly superior to Blacks in every way and like the loathsome, weak “peasants” that Blacks supposedly are, we are to unreservedly and categorically accept whatever blighted criticism that they feel they can voice about us and we are to grovel and accept and skip and smile like the good little N*ggers we are and of course any supposedly benevolent scraps they see fit to give us like the good little N*gger children we are since we obviously don’t have the IQ and intellectual capital to string two thoughts together without pleading affirmative action or that magical word “preferences” that send Whites and Asians into a frothing pit bulls.
In regards to the supposed problem of Affirmative Action—there is too much evidence which shows that it has bolstered White women into the upper echelons of professionals and higher education when before the Civil Rights bill passed, for enrollment in colleges was much lower, however with the 1964 passage and the Affirmative Action Executive order, there is no surprises that White Women enrollment skyrocketed and surpassed all other racial groups http://www.jointcenter.org/DB/factsheet/college.htm,
including their own White men in some areas although it never exceeded. Thus once again, how have White women been negated or discriminated against by Blacks and how have Black people held down White women and men when they continue to benefit from Affirmative, Action, nepotism, cronyism and all manner of preferential treatment that have and will continue to benefit White people ad infinitum.
And Geraldine Ferraro et al? Wasn’t she the token female pick just like Sarah Palin to galvanize White Women to vote for their respective candidates, thus to throw a the race card is the height of hypocrisy when she willing participated in a quota system that she blasts Obama. In addition, how about Sandra Day O’Connor. Not a peep out of White people that she was less than qualified because she was a woman or maybe because she was White that must trump the handicap of her gender. How about all those “informed” white people who voted for Regan and Bush twice because they can relate to his race and their down home personalities. They have wrecked untold damage with their schemes, buts it OK, Regan used to be a cowboy actor and Bush was a Cowboy and that make everything OK. Of course, Blacks are the only race on the planet that vote because of race and not all those Whites and non-Blacks who are so well informed, judicious, and objective voters who pick candidates solely on their political platforms and intellectual acumen.
All in all, destructive Paternalism from White men and rank faux identity politics that White women use as a leverage to bolster their bloated bid for equal rights at the expense of Black people is why race will undoubtedly come first before Black women can even come close to working with White women and all those other non-Blacks who think that Blacks are shit on the bottom of their shoe. If you cannot even see past skin color or the supposed advantages that Blacks are getting left and right and thus our animalistic thug like natures are merely pissing away these laughable advantages at the expense of all the good Whites and Asians who are losing out, how in the world you can change this indestructible social and cultural belief. In this instance, I don’t believe this thoroughly accepted premise will ever change.
Wow Amanda all that "research" to prove your point and you still came out sounding like the racist that you claim to not tolerate. It always comes out doesn't it. You have Siditty here giving you eloquent, logical, educated responses and you respond like the ignorant redneck you are and call her a negro peasant. I love how you and other white people like to justify slavery and oppresion of black people by talking about how Africans enslaved other Africans. Does that even matter? We are talking about America land of the free and home of the brave. You want to justify what happened to us with your stats. It's white people like you who keep the flames of racism roaring wildly. When it all boils down Amanda. You are just hateful, evil and racist. That is your bottem line and it's real thin. It's typical of you to say we are whining, while in the same breath spew out racist rants against Siditty. I have so many other names to call you,but I will respect Siditty's blog rules and not make you cry.
SIMONE
"Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the 300 years you talked about but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea. By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century".
Now this is a very racist argument. There are no ways of defending it as otherwise.
I have heard American whites claim that Africans enslaved themselves before the white man in order to somehow lessen the evil of what they did.
I am from East Africa and we don't have a local word for a slave any one that exists would most likely be in Swahili which has a mix of arabic.
The Slave traders were Arabs and yes they were there before the whites. This argument you presented is meant to deceive people that Africans traded themselves with each other before anyone came in. This slavery they talk about was mostly in West Africa and the East Coast of Africa with Arabs as the buyers. And from what I understand among the West Africans it was usually the annexed tribes and unwanted members of society that were sold off initally. It was all about conquests. When the Whites came in then it became highly commercial and the dynamics changed for good.
That is why today in the Western hemisphere you have over 50 million Blacks (I am guessing here) while you have about 2 million in the whole Arab world, which in case you know your geography is much closer to Africa.
If slavery was inherently African, you would still find it in traditional African societies, it doesn't exist. The Slavery that exists today is still practised mostly by Arabs living in Northern parts of Africa and the tradition may have spread into some black parts in West Africa. But in traditonal Black African societies it didn't exist. In old Kingdoms there was voluntary servitude and that is what silly Western anthropologists want to convince people as slavery. Subjects of a monarch voluntarily offered their labor for the common good of the community. There are peole that still do this today. In some cases a clan's duty to the monarch was a specific chore to perform for the Kingdom.
So please stop this stupid lie. Whites by far created the most damage.
This argument of African slavery sickens me to no end. Even the most seemingly intelligent people like to peddle it. Slavery was wrong. And whites benefitted the most from it. As for those so called tribes that fought against its end, have you bothered to researdch on those that fought against the traders and some even succeeded? I don't think so. Just the usuall lop sided blame the victim argument. When will you people stop this crap?
You just made a typical racist argument with out even realizing it.
"It was nice talking with you, my negro peasant , but I must go. Now get out your mop and wipe my floor. HAHAHAHAHA. Stupid Nappy Headed whore. Your man wants me!"
Amanda,
You are the quintessential definition of white trash. Truly insignificant in your own environment and seeking purporse and worth by bellittling blacks. How pityful. You feel better now?
Unfortunately you will still be insignificant among your own tomorrow.
Don't come back here we can't help you with you deficiency of humanity. Maybe you should eat your own children since your degenerate males defile their own, you the female equivalent should try otherways other than attack other people.
Her man wants your wrinkly waterless leather skinned self? I don't think so. Get over it.
Some white men will take a woman of color over your humanless self anyday you witch!
Some of you white women are too amusing. You think your physical appearance makes you better than other women, LOL! How come your men are leaving you for Asian women and the ones married to your princess selves are sill hitting on us eh? You know it, you are so insecure about BW because you really can't tell whether your men desire us or not. Well keep guessing. But I would watch my man if I were you.
Your type like to put down Black women because deep inside you are terribly scared of her sexuality. Guess what, be real scared. So your last attempt is to ursurp the Black Woman's confidence and knock her to the ground so no man can find her attractive. It doesn't work. Your forefathers and probably your own grandfather slept with her in her miost unattractive state, imagine what happens now that she is all styled up. LOL! Be real scared next time you have a man (I pitty theat man) with you and there is a Black Woman around. I am giving you a free tip here, Woman to creature (you).
Like I said, have those claws of yours tight on your man. Spend your energy holding on to him than attacking a sister. But given your attitude, mark my words, you are going to lose him anyway LOL! Its coming to you. And remember this convo when it happens.
I bet you are too cowardly to return and respond to these comments.
Next time you feel like boosting your humanity, why don't you just go shopping.
Next time you feel like boosting your humanity, why don't you just go shopping.
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Or just go get more botox. You know once alot of you turn 25 you look like the texas chainsaw massacare. You leather face trollip. I know alot of white women have such a hard time realizing that not all white men worship them. It's hard for you. I know so many of you and so many of you are so insecure. The secure ones don't think anything like you and are the ones I relate to because they don't have superiority complexes. You are Such a loser Amanda.
SIMONE
Update:
Terry O'Neill has been elected President of NOW. I am not surprised.
"The secure ones don't think anything like you and are the ones I relate to because they don't have superiority complexes. You are Such a loser Amanda."
Any woman that thinks she is better than the next is truly delluded.
White women get this confidence because black men "worship" them. What they don't realize is that these black men have a sick need to be validated by whites. In my books if a man has such an inferiority complex and is with me to validate his humanity, he is a loser. White women seem not to see that the vast majority of Black men chasing them fall into this category. As long as such BM exist, I hope they keep running to White women. they are useless to BW.
Unfortunately this gives white women a false confidence and they think they are better than black women. NOT. I have personally had the whitest of men with the blondest of wives seriously pursue me. I have seen them leave their "Princesses" for ebony skinned African women. A woman is a woman, to think you are better than the next one is incredible serious stupidity.
The Amanda's of this world are the reason women will remain oppressed for a long time.
Ok; off topic onto another rant.
The Arrogance of the BM is unbelievable. The beloved Morgan Freeman married his light skinned woman, damped her for a White one while maintaining and affair with his very dark skinned step daughter. Needless to say he split up with the White one.
Now this is behavior typical of West African men especially in the UK. If ever they marry a WW, its for show, but they marry a black one back in Africa and have kids with her. The White one never knows about it.
Women hear that? At the end of the day one is no more special than the other to the BM, just a means to an end.
Wow, Amanda. How much more of a racist pig can you be? "Black privilege"? Don' make me laugh.
Siditty, hehehe, your blog never fails to amuse me. I've had some good laughs this morning! Especially from Amanda.
LMAO @ "Or just go get more botox. You know once alot of you turn 25 you look like the texas chainsaw massacare. You leather face trollip."
That just made my day...thanks for that one!!
Anonymous right above me: I agree about the good laughs (though it's afternoon here).
I don't see why (racist) people go on and on about so-called "Black privilege" like it's a unique phenomenon. There's a privilege for everything! Thin people are often privileged over fat people, Attractive people get privileges over people deemed unattractive, hell, I "privilege" people who are more like me (i.e., outgoing) than people who are shy because I'm more likely to hang out with the former.
People benefit from innocuous things like race, gender, and attractiveness everyday. The difference is, none of these pseudo-privileges are big enough to set up an entire system like White privilege is. If I said I was going to rally all slender people together to oppress fat people, they'd stick me into a padded cell somewhere. But White people are a large enough group to harness that privilege on a large scale and to use it to gain even more power by shutting others out.
A great book that kind of gets into this is called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" by Beverly Tatum. I think she makes an interesting point when she argues that only White people can be racist. She defines racism as discrimination + power. So, although minorities can discriminate against whites or each other, they don't have the power to harness it into an institutionalized system of holding others down and pushing themselves up. I'm not sure if I agree with her definition, but her explanation definitely makes sense.
**Formerly Jamesthegirl28**
A great book that kind of gets into this is called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" by Beverly Tatum. I think she makes an interesting point when she argues that only White people can be racist. She defines racism as discrimination + power. So, although minorities can discriminate against whites or each other, they don't have the power to harness it into an institutionalized system of holding others down and pushing themselves up. I'm not sure if I agree with her definition, but her explanation definitely makes sense.
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THis is a great explanation and definition to me. It's sad and kind of depressing, but I am sure even some white people would agree with this. I don't know how the hell white people could ignore the fact that they have white priveledge. Even if they don't realize it. Most of them have to know that the color of their skin gives them advantages. No one is suspicious of them, thinking they will steal something from their store, they are assumed to have good credit, and have no problems moving into any neighborhood in America they want. People just have a totally different way of dealing with white people in my opinion. It's like they are considered the safe race. I don't know if that makes any sense. I think white people discriminate against everyone else more than any other race of people because they want to hold on to their priviledges. I think C1 put it best when he talked about white people not wanting to lose their power in this country. Power=privelege. We all have the opportunity to access those priveledges, but not without being twice as good as the white person we may go up against. So for the white folks reading the blog. How can you deny that your whitenes gives you leadway? I wish race wasn't such an issue, because then we could talk about something else more important like Global warming or Corn seeds.
Simone
A great book that kind of gets into this is called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" by Beverly Tatum. I think she makes an interesting point when she argues that only White people can be racist. She defines racism as discrimination + power. So, although minorities can discriminate against whites or each other, they don't have the power to harness it into an institutionalized system of holding others down and pushing themselves up. I'm not sure if I agree with her definition, but her explanation definitely makes sense.
_______________________________
Agreed, also Amanda might benefit by getting a hold of Jane Elliot's brown eyed/blue eyed project. For those unfamiliar, Eliot conducted experiments on a bunch of 3rd graders in the 60s. Amanda might be surprised that the mere suggestion of inferiority in these experiments, conducted on just ONE day, left some of Elliot's students feeling inferior and traumatized in their adulthood.
"Amanda might be surprised that the mere suggestion of inferiority in these experiments, conducted on just ONE day, left some of Elliot's students feeling inferior and traumatized in their adulthood".
Amanda's ignorance is beyond repair. Don't bother. She was just on break from a Klan rally.
Amanda's ignorance is beyond repair. Don't bother. She was just on break from a Klan rally.
June 22, 2009 7:13 PM
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Yeah she's probably mad because they didn't find any culud folk to decorate her tree with. Evil monster.
SIMONE
You know what's funny about the feminist movement. The white women that are involved in the feminist movement always complain about the injustices that they have faced from their own men, but when things don't go there way,they play the "white women victim" card LOL which allows people to sympathize for them. So one minute they are playing hardball the next minute they are playing the victim which includes their race to allow people to sympathize. So yes the feminist movement has always been about upperclass and middle class white women. If you are for injustices for women, then you cannot use your race in favor to help other women because of women do not have that advantage.
I just want to say a few things.
First, there is no such thing as 'black privelege'.
Most white people KNOW they have something called 'white privelege' but refuse to aknowledge it infront of non white people.
Second, please don't sink to Amandas level by calling her names etc. Just ignore her because she is getting exactly what she wants by you calling her these names and getting upset/angry.
I wish BW could free themselves of the "brotha sistah" mindset they have...what i noticed with Amandas post was that she was trying to hit a nerve by saying "YOUR men want us". First of all, BM are NOT OUR men, they do not belong to us just be cause we share melanin/dna.
And what you should of responded to Amanda when she wrote that was just that.
BM are not our men.
But instead you responded by saying how HER men (white men) don't want YOU etc...which is just so wrong.
When you meet racist people like this do not give them that satisfaction, you are above that.
As a BW you always have to be the bigger person because you know how people love us to become the 'angry black woman' stereotype.
Just let those people and their words go in one ear and out the other because they are not worth your energy or time.
that's all.
"Yeah she's probably mad because they didn't find any culud folk to decorate her tree with. Evil monster."
LOL! Simone, you are something else.
"So one minute they are playing hardball the next minute they are playing the victim which includes their race to allow people to sympathize. So yes the feminist movement has always been about upperclass and middle class white women."
And this is what has led to the demise of the feminist movement.
White Women try to have it all ways. Taking advantage of their race over minorities and using their gender to get sympathy from the same minorities against the White man then turning around and exploiting the White man to get an edge of the minorities.
And you thought the White man was the bad one. Atleast his hussle is plain and simple. The White Woman's, not so much.
"As a BW you always have to be the bigger person because you know how people love us to become the 'angry black woman' stereotype."
S,
Your sentiments are appreciated. But there are many ways to skin a cat.
Just like some people are more likely to understand the language of violence when the oppressed use it against them, so is the use of the language that Amanda understands. What makes her think she is superior to anyone? Maybe if someone made her feel inferior then she would understand the nature of her language. I have no regrets whatsoever. If someone wants to dehumanize me I will try my best to give them a taste of that too. I am not the turn the other cheek sort. If that works for you, more power to you.
Note to "Amanda" and "Mandy":
You broke the rules, as a result the comments get rejected. I am sorry that you have nothing of value to add to the conversation. I am sorry you now have to live amongst "animals" because some of your ancestors decided "us animals" need to come to America. I am also sorry we are not interested in leaving our adopted home. I am also sorry you are under the impression that "us animals" get a free ride, even though if you read statistics,that really isn't the case. We make less money and get harsher penalties for crime. On average of course. If you didn't get your information from Stormfront and Front Page Mag, you might know that.
I am sorry your white privilege does not get you as far as you think it should.
Obviously in your mind, race always trumps gender.
Sincerely,
Dumb ugly b*tch who enjoys whoring and getting AIDS
PS: I don't eat fried chicken. I'm a vegetarian.I'm also HIV negative.
Second, please don't sink to Amandas level by calling her names etc. Just ignore her because she is getting exactly what she wants by you calling her these names and getting upset/angry.
She gets nothing she wants. She wants for me and other people to feel inferior to her. She failed. She proved that she is inferior in each and every way with her comments.
hat i noticed with Amandas post was that she was trying to hit a nerve by saying "YOUR men want us".
She actually said "Your man wants me". My man is a white man, and he doesn't want her. No one was using this as a forum to protect black men from people like Amanda. It was a personal attack against me.
No one here said BM were our men. If you haven't noticed, some BM aren't big fans of mine.
But instead you responded by saying how HER men (white men) don't want YOU etc...which is just so wrong.
Where was it said that I said white men don't want black women?
As a BW you always have to be the bigger person because you know how people love us to become the 'angry black woman' stereotype. Just let those people and their words go in one ear and out the other because they are not worth your energy or time.
Sometimes you have to go to the gutter, and sometimes BW need to not stand down to folks like Amanda. I don't give a damn about stereotypes. Black women are going to be thought of as angry black women, regardless of how we act. We need to quit worrying about what other groups think of us sometimes and do what we need to do to get ahead. I am tired of being told to worry about how I am perceived. We are the only group of people told not to have emotions and instead "suck it up" I am no longer sucking it up.
wow, the comments in here are deeeeep...i just want to add my little 2 cents, considering i wrote an essay last night entitled, "How We Both Black & Our Kid Is 'Post-Racial'?" it seems like the issues of race & how we define ourselves (or how others define us) is still quite relevant today.
i think having to choose which comes first, race or gender, unfairly pits the two against each other. racism & sexism is still very rampant and can only be ended when we stop telling one to sit down & wait until we sort out the other first. all "isms" are a products of the white, patriarchal system in which we live in and are therefore intertwined. they must be fought together. how can you ask someone to divorce parts of themselves for the cause? that leads to divisiveness and blame.
very intense discussion though. i love it.
oh, if you'd like to read my post, go here:
http://theprisonerswife.blogspot.com
I agree that black people are always having to worry about what we should and should not say. I can be an angry black woman, a happy,sad,funny, complex and loving black woman. I am not going to let anyone dictate how I should behave feel. White people don't. If white people like Amanda think we should not be angry when they treat and talk to us anykind of way then that is there problem. I know I could have ignored her comments, but that bitch needed to be told about herself. She is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, because her mind is so small. She will not survive a healthy life thinking that way. She may get by but she will suffer. I don't care about people like her, but sometimes they get on my damn nerves. Most of the time I ignore them. She can take her racist ass and jump off a canyon into a bunch of sharp stakes. She is an ugly miserable human being and needs to vanish.
SIMONE
I am another HIV negative black woman Amanda. Can you believe that. I do take care of plenty of white people with Herpes and Hep C though. So don't get too high on your horse. Your diseased ridden horse. You are probably walking around now with a petri dish for a vagina. Skank.
I do luuuuuuuuv me some fried chicken though. No, no watermelon, but thanks for thinking it.Gutter slut.
SIMONE
Okay Siditty that's it, I am done with my last ugly comment to her. I just had to get it out. I actually toned down what I really wanted to say.
Why is Frontpage mag a bad place for info? They are not pulling there stats out of their ass? What makes a left-wing source more credible than a right wing source? My ancestors didn't take anybody from Africa. My ancestors came to America in 1971. It was your ancestors who sold you to the white man. You say you have no interest in leaving America, but why? If America is so racist and bad. If you feel so oppressed why don't you move to a predominantly black nation? Nobody is forcing you to stay here. I didn't say blks get a free ride but you get an easier ride than a poor white person does that for sure. You make less money because blk people are less educated on average compared to whites. You don't get paid less for the same work, it's against the law. And if there is a difference, the difference is miniscule. You don't get harsher sentences for crimes. You get harsher sentences for certain drug crimes, because black politicians wanted it that way because they felt that crack was destroying the blk community in the 80's, and blk officials demanded harsher sentences.
Wow Mandy can actually put together a sentence. Frontpage Magazine is akin to me obtaining information from Znet and saying it is absolute truth. The stats used at Front Page mag are skewed and taken out of context, like many stats so often are from all sides. Front Page Magazine is not a mainstream right wing publication and there is a reason for that. David Horowitz has gone so far extreme that he has ostracized himself to being aligned with racist people, and he has largely been discredited for never ever providing actual proof for all of his allegations. That is why I can't take what is said on FrontPage mag as factual or even legitimate. There is an agenda there.
My ancestors didn't take anybody from Africa. My ancestors came to America in 1971.
No one said your ancestors did. We aren't pissed off about slavery. What about Jim Crow? What about the benefits of white privilege you get based upon skin color alone, but you fail to acknowledge that. You say blacks make less money because they are less educated, but that doesn't explain the income disparities between blacks and whites of the same educational level.
It was your ancestors who sold you to the white man. You say you have no interest in leaving America, but why? If America is so racist and bad. If you feel so oppressed why don't you move to a predominantly black nation?
Mandy,
What black nation do I move to? I don't know where I really come from. Most black people don't. Even if I were to get DNA testing, I could only figure out which area of Africa I should move to, not the exact country of origin. Not to mention what about the fact that many of us slaves probably are of mixed african ancestry, as well as mixed with white and native american. I have a better shot at tracing my native american and white ancestry than I do my black ancestry. Sad isn't it? That probably scares you that many of us with slave ancestry have traceable European ancestry doesn't it? This is the country I know, it is flawed, but it is MY country. If you hate us black folks so much, why don't your family move to where ever the hell they came from. I have the right to claim to be an American even more so than you. My family has fought in America's wars, just to come home to be treated as 2nd class citizens, unless you really believe separate, but equal Jim Crow laws worked.
You said everything I owned was created by white men, and that is how I know the educational system has failed you and feed into your ignorant notion that I as a black woman are inferior to you, and enjoy fried chicken (which coming from the south, I know many a white folks who love fried chicken as well). Black people have contributed to this country and why should I deny their accomplishments because you are ignorant to what they have done?
I didn't say blks get a free ride but you get an easier ride than a poor white person does that for sure.
Prove it what do black people get that white people can't get? They get the luxury of people not assuming they are "gutter people". They get the luxury of people not assuming they enjoy fried chicken and have AIDS. Most black folks don't have AIDS, but yet you went there with your insults. I am college degreed and I didn't get a minority scholarship to get into college. But you must be under the impression I did.My father went to a HBCU so he certainly didn't get into college on a quota. So you just assume blacks have it easier because you want to believe we black people are inherently inferior to white people.
Why is Frontpage mag a bad place for info? They are not pulling there stats out of their ass? What makes a left-wing source more credible than a right wing source?
Neutrality makes a source more credible. The moment you choose a wing--in this case, you've chosen extreme right--your ability to show unbiased truth is compromised.
Further: it's not a primary source--a document or physical object which was written or created during the time under study--it's secondary, so they might have pieces of statistics in them and could very well be using them in a way that does not accurately reflect the work that was done nor the conclusions of the investigators, who are infinitely more qualified to interpret those numbers and trends than life-long English majors (Horowitz and his associate Collier) and people who make their living by serving easily debunked misinformation with a side of inflammatory yellow journalism (the majority of their contributors).
My ancestors came to America in 1971.
..........And?
My family has always been here: they're the not-white people who found the continent and were living here when the immigrants figured out the logistics of the long sea voyage. Those members of my family who weren't already living in America arrived before the 1700s. For someone with so little relevant history, you're making an awful lot of claims to MY country and what ought happen here.
It's rather laughable that you should think that your opinion as to whom should repatriate means something. Are you one of those people that shows up after a Halloween party is over, then tries to tell the empty venue where the tape on the streamers should've been?
Perhaps you and yours should return to where they came from if it's so hard being associated with the possibility that your immediate family or somewhat more distant relatives may have had a hand in slavery or continue to profit socially and economically from the systems and traditions it helped foster?
You'll have much less to pack than the rest of us before you leave.
P.S.: Maybe you ought to ask if the "ac" for the word "black" stowed away in their luggage and that's why you can't seem to find it when you post.
"Dumb ugly b*tch who enjoys whoring and getting AIDS:"
LOL! That is the bitterness of a White woman who can't swallow the fact that a Black Woman is married to a white man. Like I said, Witch go eat your children, you may become more human.
"Sometimes you have to go to the gutter, and sometimes BW need to not stand down to folks like Amanda."
Exactly, those that feel like it should keep floating in the clouds while riding Unicorns. The rest of us will be in the gutter cleaning the mess up.
"Why is Frontpage mag a bad place for info? They are not pulling there stats out of their ass?"
I can't believe I am going to ask a reasonable question to this thing. But let me throw this stone in the bush and see what comes out.
Mandy/Amanda,
Have you ever taken a class in Logic ? Did you learn about the misrepresentation of statistics and how they are commonly misreptresented for the author's aims ?
*lets wait and see*
"My ancestors didn't take anybody from Africa. My ancestors came to America in 1971."
LOL! This says plenty about you Amanda,
Being a descendant of recent immigrants, you should be the last person to be miffed by "Black privilage". But you are, WHY?
I am guessing you are even not a top tier white, ie Nordic or Anglo Saxon. You must be one those only recently recongnized whites and I wouldn't even be surprised if you were more Middle Eastern than white. Or even Asian. I have met crazy Asians that try to be more white than the whites. They defend White Supremacy like there is no tomorrow.
What people like you are doing is to go through the now known ritual performed by non Black minorities. And that is to prove your disdain and dehumanize blacks so you can be accepted by whites.
Amanda dear, this is the wrong forum to do that. Notice there are not many white people here to see your efforts. You need to go to a Website or environment where there are real whites so they can see you perform your skills.
Or are you just going to go and brag how you called a black person a "negro peasant" and expect them to take your word for it. LOL!
You need some real Negro bashing Cred.
But you are not going to get it here.
But I think we could do you a little favor and ask Sid to let your comments through for a a short time while you show them off to your "Superiors". LOL!
Oh Man, this totem pole climbing is getting more hillarious by the day.
Siditty, you sound extremely unintelligent. Firstly, if one race is out-performing all other races time and time again then it says something about that race doesn’t it? If in your family tree you had a bunch of people who had invented some of the most amazing inventions ever, I am sure you would be claiming that, which is only fair. You have superior genetics. This is the same for race. Whites are more intelligent than blacks and it is proven time and time again. Black people just love to blame all their downfalls on whitey. Give white people a desert and they will turn it into a paradise, give black people a paradise and they will turn it into a desert.
I've read "why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria" and it was very insightful. It explained a lot about how we self-segregate and why. Race will always come before gender, because there are some people who will see your color/ethnicity before they see your gender. Sojourner Truth's "Ain't I a Woman" comes to mind. But first, I think that the humanity of a person should be acknowledged before anything else. We know that there are some White people who still do not see Black people as remotely human. The whole racial superiority thing obviously stems from White insecurity and fear of losing their "control".
"Amanda"
If in your family tree you had a bunch of people who had invented some of the most amazing inventions ever, I am sure you would be claiming that, which is only fair. You have superior genetics. This is the same for race.
Hmmm...let's address the oversights apparent in this statement:
1. Did you not go far enough in biology to know that all humans belong to the same species? And that we all share the same common ancestors? In other words, we are all in the same family
2. If you are talking about more direct familial relations, please advise, WHO in YOUR family tree has made some of these astounding inventions that YOU lay claim to and what did they invent? Or are you claiming all white people as your relatives in the sense that, say, Hitler is white and therefore part of your family tree? Remember, you must take the good with the bad if you want to go that route so you also get to be responsible for American slavery and Jim Crow, regardless of whenever your parents arrived here.
3. You make this assertion as though there are not also black, asian, and latino people who have made astounding contributions to science and technology. Are you truly this ignorant? Do you really assume that every aspect of your convenient modern life is courtesy of white people only? Pardon me, but that makes YOU seem quite unintelligent.
4. Why are bigoted white people like yourself so quick to ride the coattails of other white people? Don't you have any accomplishments o be proud of yourself? What is YOUR IQ, YOUR educational background, YOUR occupational status? They are probably nothing to brag about, and so you make tenuous claim to the achievements of other whites. "I was born white so that makes me special. I cam claim credit for things that really have nothing at all to do with me." It's quite sad that you have nothing else to prop up your ego.
5. And why is that your ilk never mentions how Asians are outperforming white in education and scientific discovery? Does that not make you genetically inferior? Does that mean you would not have an issue if all the high level executives and politicians were mostly Asian? Surely, that is what would happen in a meritocracy.
6. My direct ancestors built this county, literally, and for centuries they did so without pay or basic human rights. They fought and died in wars to protect it so it would endure and bigoted little cretins like yourself could come here and reap the rewards. So you don't get to tell me to go anywhere. If you don't like black folks, you leave. And take your parents and any siblings you may have with you.
"Oh Man, this totem pole climbing is getting more hillarious by the day."
Leads you to wonder who they're REALLY trying to convince. Themselves or the people they're supposed to be so much better than.
Yanmomma, How long are we going to pretend that origins play no role in our world, the origins of the inventions, science, technology, and economics of the world in which we live? I didn't say blacks should leave. I said if you feel so discriminated against and feel like you can't catch a break, you should move. People who hate this country always seem to want to stay here for some strange reason. Your direct ancestors did not build this county. Many people contributed to the building of America. Everybody is outperforming blacks. Most of the people who died in wars so you can be free were white not black. How many nobel prize winners are Asians? Asians only make up 5% of the population. What scientific discovery are you talking about? What scientist of any race ranks along side Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Galileo, Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta, Louis Pasteur, Guglielmo Marchese Marconi, Nikola Tesla.
Trains, planes, cars, rockets, telescopes, tires, telephones, radios, television, electricity, atomic energy, computers, and movies. All miracles made possible by the minds and spirits of men with names like Ampere, Bell, Caselli, Edison, Ohm, Faraday, Einstein, Cohen, Teller, Shockley, Hertz, Marconi, Morse, Popov. Ford, Volta, Michelin, Dunlop, Watt, Diesel, Galileo, and other white males.
The great majority of "booms" past and present have been brought about by the genius and inventiveness of that most "despicable" of genders, the dreaded white male. This is not to discredit the many contributions coming from non-whites, but fact is fact. Our most important and consequential inventions have come almost exclusively from white males or females. Marie Curie, greates female scientist was white. She was the only person to receive Nobel Prizes in two different sciences: Physics and Chemistry.
Curse me, or all whites, if you wish, that changes nothing. But if you call me a liar, you’ll have to come up with the proof that I’m wrong. Remember, I didn’t say there were no important contributions by non-whites; I said the overwhelming majority. Of course, I know about such things as the Chinese and gunpowder, but they didn’t take it much beyond firecrackers and pyrotechnics. And I know about the pyramids and masonry of South America and the zero of the Arabs.
Now it is certainly true that China did lead the world in technology and commercial inventiveness about 1,000 years ago. They had great coal-mining operations, gunpowder, six-masted sailing ships, and intense commercial enterprise. But it all collapsed because the elites, the long-nailed Mandarins, centralized control--1,000 years before Mao--and crushed the expansion and inventions.
But the facts tell us that many of the great men pursued their genius at great personal risk--like the astronomer Galileo, who proved that the earth revolves around the sun. He and other men of genius and courage refused to be suppressed even if it meant their lives. They would permit no race, gender, group or class to keep them from their pursuit of truth and excellence whatever the cost.
If you eliminate, suppress, or debase my men, the while males, you kill the goose that laid the golden egg. If you ace him out with "affirmative" action, exile him from the family, teach him that he’s a blight on mankind, then bon voyage to our society. We will devolve into a third-world cesspool. Where has there ever before in history been a group of human beings who have brought about the likes of the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and the countless life-saving and life- improving inventions that we now enjoy?
Amanda or Amana or whatever your name is. The audacity of your need to impose your ignorance on us is astounding. Black people in your minds have done nothing. West Africans were the first group of people in the world to discover the concept of counting. The proof, tally sticks. This was done in 35,000 BC. Google it. Without the concept of counting, math wouldn't exist. Open heart surgeries wouldn't exist without Dr. Daniel Hale Wiliams, who figured out how to open the chest cavity without killing a person. Of course he was just a negro. Dr. james Watson, the same man who said that black africans were less intelligent than whites was found to have African ancestry, a great grandparent was african, making him 16% african, and he was also found to be 9% asian. He has a nobel prize and is a racist, even though he has been "soiled" with black blood. Imagine. WIlliam Arthur Lewis won a Nobel prize in economics. In case you don't know economics requires a knowledge of math. And to think he was black and able to master math and get a nobel prize.
Just because you are uneducated and lack the common sense to look things up for yourself, doesn't mean you are superior based upon your racist views alone.
Oh "Amanda", she who would align herself with the great minds of science, but in reality has much more in common (in mindset and probably genes also) with your common 60's era Klansman, burning crosses under the anonymity of his sheet.
First of all, I don't hate MY country. I hate people like you. As you said the majority of people in this country are white, so it would be quite odd if most of the people who died in our wars had been black, would it not be? Please think before you type, if possible. It's astounding that nonwhites fought for this country considering they did not even have basic rights of citizenship.
I see now you emphasize white men specifically over whites in general, even further minimizing your claims to greatness and emphasizing your role as a pathetic rider of coattails with no accomplishments of her own to boast. And you ignore the ugly fact that your claims also make you culpable for rape, genocide, and enslavement on a mass scale. Not so proud of that side of the family? And the fact that Asians are outperforming white people on the same indicators you like to throw around, which would mean white people are not at the top of the genetic totem pole and are slipping by the minute.
Really why do you even come here, except for to troll? To think you would get a group of highly literate college-educated middle class black folks to be swayed into thinking that they are inferior based on the color of their skin is the definition of stupidity. Was this to be your great contribution to humanity? As Kenya said, who are you really trying to convince? Is this extra credit for your summer white supremacy 101 class?
If you eliminate, suppress, or debase my men, the while males, you kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
Funny how no one anywhere on this blog suggested doing any of these things. And "your men"? My white boyfriend asked me to tell you to please snap out of your delusion that he has any affiliation whatsoever with you. And I'm sure that most, if not all, of the innovators you named would hotly refute your claims of kinship- just as the scientific community soundly and swiftly refuted and ostracized the authors of The Bell Curve.
The one seeking to eliminate, suppress, and debase is you, as you have demonstrated again and again with your postings to this blog. White people with your mindset HAVE eliminated, suppressed, and debased throughout history. Even with Affirmative Action, white men are still doing pretty darn well. I propose we do a test case, though, let's remove women from the groups covered under Affirmative Action. They are the biggest AA beneficiaries and the group that white men have lost the most ground to as a result. Would that make you feel better?
Keep flailing away under that sheet of yours. Feel free to have the last word- at least that way you can finally "win" at something.
I forgot to add that people like "Amanda" are actually the best argument for Affirmative Action as they demonstrate that the exact kind of people whom it was created to counteract still exist to this day: the kind who believe the best person for the job is always a white man, no matter what, and that no one else could posses equal or superior intelligence or ability. So thank you, Amanda, for your endeavors to demonstrate that racism and bigotry are indeed not dead.
"And the fact that Asians are outperforming white people on the same indicators you like to throw around." What are those indicators? Again, the only racist here is Yonmomma and Siditty. I stated my facts and you can't deny them. The greatest scientist, doctors, inventors have all been white. I didn't say other people haven't contributed, but the best and most important were white. The best from the present world are white also.
From a white persons perspective, I would say that black people in general do seem to be less inteligent than either white or asian people. That said, black people seem to do better at sport/athletics. Personally, I also think that black people are more gifted vocally, but this area is more or less subjective.
I don’t really see why some people get so defensive about this whole debate, as no matter how much people desire all people to be equal in every respect, this is just not a reality. I also find it hypocritical that many of those who decree “racism” when the above opinion is presented are the same people to point out how superiour black people are in the field of athletes.
I hope no one is offended by my post. This is simply my realistic view of the world. One need look no further than what Gandhi thought about blacks (he considered them inferior). Whites think blacks are stupid because you’ve never given us any reason to think otherwise.
I think Amanda is correct. Throwing polical correctness aside ,There are 3 main things that make a country rich or poor” 1 Capitolist or Communist 2 How much corruption you have 3 How intelligent the general population is
Capitalist countrys are normally more rich then communist.
A country that has less corruotion is normally richer. And the more inteligent the general population and there leaders are equals normally a richer country. You can check the average IQs of most countrys online and all that have a lower IQ are poor. And countrys that have a higher average IQ are normally wealthy. You can also check the same point about corruption and capitalisic or socialism.
The countinent of arica has the lowest IQ ratings ,with very high corruption. Put the 2 together and you have poor countrys.
There is a reason that white people sailed across the globe 500 years ago ,while africans were still in the stone age” I am sorry to say that most people know that but dont like to talk about it”’
Black people are better at many things then other races example
running jumping dancing singing ets but as a race it is not thinking”
These talent do not make a rich country ”History shows that”’
"I said if you feel so discriminated against and feel like you can't catch a break, you should move. People who hate this country always seem to want to stay here for some strange reason."
Take your own advice? If you feel so set upon because of being white, because people think your family contributed to slavery, leave.
You hate that people aren't going to smile and nod as you try to affirm your superiority by clinging to the achievements of others you have no connection to and the happenstance that your family couldn't hack it where they were originally....so why are YOU still here?
"They would permit no race, gender, group or class to keep them from their pursuit of truth and excellence whatever the cost."
Pope Urban did a pretty good job of it by keeping him house arrest until he croaked and keeping his work under wraps long after he was dead.
You also blatantly ignore the fact that science in the "Western" world, until recently, was a hobby of the rich. That means plenty of white dudes were excluded just like people of color and women. It also means that science was going on without the snobs, albeit unrecognized, in the rest of the world.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees the irony leaking from A man, duh!'s statements?
Why is it the people that insist that non-white people need to get over the past are the first to try to reach back to antiquity to prove a point? We all know there were absolutely no white folks running around butt naked in woad and animal hides while the rest of the world was doing all the intellectual heavy lifting.
In her "realistic view of the world," all white men are hers. How does that work? Is she collecting them like Pokemon? Gotta catch 'em all, I guess, since they sure won't go willingly. Let's hope we never find out what she does to the corpses of those white men that passed on before she took up her crusade.
She's more intelligent than us, but she can't spell or figure out how to use spell check.
Her very existence disproves her "white people make oases" spiel since her family couldn't make one where they were--otherwise they wouldn't be here.
"Don't be offended by my post" but don't post telling tell me my skin color doesn't make me special!! It's offensive!
"We will devolve into a third-world cesspool."
If your muddled mind and logic are any indicator, you're already there. There's no "we" in it; I'm not going with you and I doubt anyone else here will either.
"Where has there ever before in history been a group of human beings who have brought about the likes of the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and the countless life-saving and life- improving inventions that we now enjoy?"
Because all civilizations that didn't have those documents, including many societies chock full of white folks from top to bottom, were third world countries? No one else in the world found medicine or made anything either? Riiiiiight.
Remember, if you get a blood transfusion, it's black man that made it possible for blood to be stored longer and blood banks to exist. If you have cancer treatment, it's because HeLa cells were taken from a black woman without the consent of herself or her family. Tell the doctors to keep those evil things to themselves when you get sick. Make sure to tell your family, too!
I think you're stupid because you've given us no reason to think otherwise. I guess I'm more white than you, A man, duh!.
Can we keep feeding this troll, Sid, please? It's funny as hell. I'm starting to feel bad for it, though, because it's more than slightly over-matched here. Maybe we can take up a collection to get it an open wet paper sack? It might be able to argue its way out of it.
Siddity, thank you for keeping the "idiots" comments up. I'm just laughing over here thinking what if all the white people who think like this idiot woke up one day and were black??? LOL. The thought alone cracks me up.
Would they think they needed to run to the nearest KFC to get that good ol fried chicken we all love?
or
Would they think they should automatically have the most amazing singing and dancing ablilities?
or
Would they get upset that they actually were not the greatest beneficiaries of Afrimative Action?
or
Would they go to Africa (asssuming they knew where it was) thinking they should already know how to speak "African?" Because we all know thats what those Africans speak.
Seriously, its really pathetic how some people use their whiteness as protection for their own insecurities. Its a false sense of protection.
"Amanda"-
Check IQ tests, SAT scores, and the science departments/units of any research university or business for Asians outperforming white people. The only upside to China overtaking the US will be watching the bigoted whites like yourself change their tune. "It's NOT genetics! They're not smarter, they are better test takers."
Oh, was that not you referencing IQ and SAT tests on the Even As First Lady, A Black Woman Can't Catch A Break? I am so sorry, all of you anonymous internet cross-burners all look alike to me.
Elected yourself spokesperson for all white people now, have you? If all white people felt as you do, I do not think we'd have a black president right now. You speak for your racist self only, and I bet you speak such things only anonymously on the internet for fear of repercussions from other white people.
Your statements, especially the "negro peasant" insult, have revealed you to be a racist through and through. There were also the ones you wrote that were too vile to even be approved. Your entire intention in posting here has been to offend. The only place you have been moderate and respectful in your comments is in your mind.
You have nothing of import or relevance to add to the conversation so as far as I'm concerned, you are dismissed.
________________
Siditty,
Sorry for enabling our pal here to turn this into a forum for regurgitating "her" stale old racist rhetoric and Stormfront talking points. I'll go back to ignoring the ICB's- Internet Cross-Burners.
Yanomoma, Give me the links were you Check IQ tests, SAT scores, and the science departments/units of any research university or business for Asians outperforming white people. You sound insane. Again, how are black folks doing? Perhaps you can to some extent train black children to be polite and to have good work habits, but intelligence is an inherent trait that cannot be taught — you either have it or you don’t. Polishing granite doesn’t turn it into a diamond.
The funny thing about people who say that blacks need a change in environment or to be “educated” in order to advance is that this was precisely the argument behind colonization (and, indeed, blacks did behave better, had better standards of living, and had more opportunities for advancement under colonization than they do now).
It’s this difference in mentality that explains the differences in achievement between blacks and other races. Unfortunately, this racial difference is inherent, it’s not just a bad habit blacks accidentally fell into one day and can easily come out of.
Of course, not *all* blacks fit the pattern, but the majority do, and it’s the majority that makes the difference.
Amanda aka Biggest Benefactor of Affirmative Action Ever,
BW have no fear of you. You have a fear of us, which explains why you are on a blog with overwhelmingly college educated middle class black women who interestingly enough are with white men, arguing with them. We are a threat, a bigger threat than you would ever care to admit. Why argue with those who are inferior to you, if you are indeed superior?
Proof asians outscore whites on at least math SAT scores. Maybe this information shows whites aren't able to comprehend math as well as those math inclined asians.
The score are very similar between whites and Asians. As far as ww benefiting from Affirmative action, it must be pointed out that in practicing such sex-based preferences in the admissions process, schools are compelled neither to delve deep into the pool of female applicants, nor to admit large numbers of women who are far less qualified than many men who are rejected. In this very important respect, the practical application of sex-based affirmative action bears virtually no resemblance to its race-based counterpart. The scholastic qualifications of females as a whole are largely comparable to those of males. The College Board reports that in 2002, female test-takers achieved an average score of 500 on the math SAT, a relatively modest 34 points lower than the male average. Meanwhile, the verbal SAT scores of females and males were nearly identical – 502 and 507, respectively. These differences come nowhere near the black-white disparity, which generally hovers around 200 points (on the math and verbal tests combined) in any given year. Indeed black students at most competitive colleges and elite universities have median SAT scores ranging from 180 to 230 points lower than the median of their white classmates. Moreover, the median SAT scores of black admittees are often significantly lower than the median scores of whites who are rejected. This state of affairs simply does not exist across gender lines. Philosophically, the pro-affirmative action crowd is correct in asserting that it makes no sense for conservatives to condemn race-based preferences while quietly accepting legacy- and sex-based preferences. But lumping together these three faces of affirmative action conveniently masks the very relevant fact that the degree of preference involved in race-based affirmative action dwarfs any preference given to women and legacies. Race-based preferences have no peer in rendering all objective standards virtually irrelevant.
As far as ww benefiting from Affirmative action, it must be pointed out that in practicing such sex-based preferences in the admissions process, schools are compelled neither to delve deep into the pool of female applicants, nor to admit large numbers of women who are far less qualified than many men who are rejected.
Amanda,
Do you even understand what you are saying? I can't even talk to you like you are a human. You are so far in denial and so far unable to grasp facts and use them to reflect REALITY and not your racist views. Of course white women benefit from affirmative action. I have shown you this using government websites. I have shown you that I, even with a small negro mind had a higher SAT and GPA than over half the people in my college. It still doesn't register. Explain to me if women are scoring lower on their SAT scores than men, why is women enrollment in colleges and universities higher now than ever before. Aren't you taking some poor white man's place since AA benefits you with your lower scores? Of course you would never want to admit that. Think about it, if on average a white woman is scoring lower than a white man, but yet white women are outnumbering white men on college campuses, doesn't that mean some poor white man is not getting a break in favor of a white woman? Affirmative Action at work. LOL
Moreover, the median SAT scores of black admittees are often significantly lower than the median scores of whites who are rejected.
Amanda you also fail to forget other factors in your warped rationale. Socio-economic status. I went to school with kids whose parents could afford for them to take some test preparation courses. I didn't have to, even with my small negro mind, but these really smarter than me white kids did, and their parents had the money for it. Most people, regardless of race, who do not have the money to do such things, or do not have the tax base to have wonderful schools, do not score as well as these supposedly smarter kids whose parents have money. Using your rationale, I guess poor people are less intelligent than middle class people and rich people are more intelligent than middle class folks. Paris Hilton is smarter than you Amanda, let's face it.
Contrary to popular belief Amanda, my parents made their money working, not dancing or singing, or even robbing a store. I know that is hard for you to imagine, but it happens, even to us black folks. They also both hold master degrees. I know they took some precious white person's spot, even if they did it before the advent of AA, but they managed to graduate even with their subpar intelligence!!! How crazy is that?
But lumping together these three faces of affirmative action conveniently masks the very relevant fact that the degree of preference involved in race-based affirmative action dwarfs any preference given to women and legacies.
Prove it Amanda. You can't I can prove that gender based admissions work. Look at my previous link. I can't say the same for race based admissions. Site your sources, and quit pulling stuff out of your ass.
Just because you quit spouting the "Negro peasant" comments doesn't mean I can't still smell bullshit on your racist stupidity you pass off as fact.
Good luck to Ms. Lyles.
In my opinion, whether I agree with White feminists or not, they have their place. What issues are unique to Black women that are not also experienced by White women?
We can separate ourselves from every other group if we want to, but the truth is that women (whether here or Africa, Asia, Europe, etc.) share many of the same burdens (although to varying degrees).
I hope that Ms. Lyles focuses on uplifting all women period.
"From a white persons perspective, I would say that black people in general do seem to be less inteligent than either white or asian people."
Amanda,
I bet you 1000$ that you are not white, in the American definition. You are fighting too hard to be one. Even the worst trailer cross burning type would not try this hard.
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