2009-07-31

Should I Be Offended at the Yak or the Woman Twisting Her Neck?



Because we are talking about weave and wig(NSFW):

61 comments:

laromana said...

Ads that promote NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES of BW need to be ELIMINATED in the media world and more POSITVE, TRUTHFUL images of BW need to REPLACE them.

Whether BW choose to wear weaves that look like their hair or don’t wear them at all, is NOT the issue but rather the NEGATIVE connotation that is attached to a BW’s choice to wear a weave BY ANTI-BW RACISTS who create these types of ASSININE ads.

If it’s acceptable for NON-BW to wear weaves, get breast implants, face lifts, butt implants, or artificially alter their bodies in ANY WAY THEY WANT without having their beauty DEFAMED, DEGRADED and DISRESPECTED, it should be acceptable for BW to do the same.

A. Spence said...

I agree with laromana. The image that all BW act a certain way, wear weave, etc doesn't need to be shown. But, I always see them as a double edge sword. If they showed a WW asking about where her weave was from, I'm sure there would be BW saying that we should be in that commercial.

and as far as the 2nd video, I say...HELL NAWL...lol

Asha said...

The neck rolling and attitude was beyond stereotypical. I found this ad to be extremely ignorant and somewhat offensive. However a woman decides to wear her hair is her own damn business, period! Though for some reason people still like to go around policing (JUDGING) others on not only how they choose to wear their hair, but how they speak and what music they listen to as well. I've some across this ad on a few other blogs, and I'm surprised that (put the fact that the ad is about hair extensions aside) more black women, even those that don't wear extensions, didn't have a problem with the comparison of afro-textured hair to that of a damn yak.

graphixie said...

I was so mad when I saw that KGB commercial the first time. IMO It's not an issue to show BW getting their hair done, many women in general get their hair done (though I'd like to see black people portrayed in social settings other than barbershops & hair salons).

What pissed me off was the way they made this woman go from calm, to complete finger twirling psycho the moment she didn't like something. Why was that even necessary? Why is that even funny? How much did they pay that actress to act like such a dumb***?

I'm just tired of seeing this.

Oh, and as far as the wig snatching clip, I just feel bad for that lady, but I did find it funny nonetheless (I've never understood the appeal of male strippers, it's just so awkward to me. The guy was hot, but the gyrating? no)

Grata said...

Apparently the list of people one can still make fun of are gays, fat people and black Women. Only if it is in the benefit of the Black male will there be objection.

The other day I heard a leading British White feminist state that the Civil Rights movement was for the Black Male, the Feminist Movement was for the white women. Minority women simply fell through the cracks. I was I amazed to hear a White woman acknowledge that.
The Black woman among the minorities IMO even fell further.

See why I am off the Black male cause? There is nothing in it for the Black Woman for the Black Male to advance. Unless of course your appearance is not typical of a Black Woman.

laromana said...

Grata,
You're 100% correct. The lack of respect that BW are shown by EVERYONE is a MAJOR problem when it comes to Hollywood, the media, and American society.

BW need to be in CONTROL of OUR IMAGE so that we can DESTROY NEGATIVE, DISHONEST STEREOTYPES of BW and REPLACE them with an ACCURATE, POSITIVE, TRUTHFUL representation of the beauty, humanity, dignity, and intelligence, that BW truly posess.

uglyblackjohn said...

1) Really?
The KGB ads make fun of whomever they use to sell their service.

How would a real woman respond in the real world?
The commercial was pretty close to fact.

2) The brotha' kept the show going in the second video. He played it off fairly well.
I woulda' been like the guy in "I'm Gonna' Get You Sucka'" and just gotten up.
IMO - That's what the woman gets for fakin' da funk. She shoulda' worn her own natural hair.

扒Elly said...

i don't know usually i let things like that go but i was offended. And it's a weird feeling, i've never been so thrown off like that before. I also think i feel offended because they're displaying a stereotype about black female hair and as we all know, hair is for the most part a touchy topic in black culture.
Nothing more to say except that i hope they pull that commercial; i've never felt more uncomfortable.

Siditty said...

Ads that promote NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES of BW need to be ELIMINATED in the media world and more POSITVE, TRUTHFUL images of BW need to REPLACE them.

Exactly. I am so tired of this stereotype of the black woman with attitude, rolling her neck is the norm. I have never gone around rolling my neck in anger. I don't know many who do.

----------

I agree with laromana. The image that all BW act a certain way, wear weave, etc doesn't need to be shown.

It is just old to me. It is as if black women all have the same damn personality. There is no way we can be multi-faceted like other women of color.

----------

more black women, even those that don't wear extensions, didn't have a problem with the comparison of afro-textured hair to that of a damn yak.



Personally, I didn't get that afro textured hair was being compared to a yak. I figured natural hair used for weave wasn't human, as most weave or extensions that use human hair say so. It is like make up brushes, if they aren't synthetic, they are made with squirrel hair. The joke was back in the day was to call someone's weave horse hair, which could very well be the case. I bet the weave industry is upset though that folks are showing what "natural" means, (i.e., not human hair).

扒Elly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
扒Elly said...

and i just watched the second video but, i actually laughed a bit at that. I think a white stripper would the same damn thing. That's the woman's choice to "enjoy" that. Clearly she was, she was laughing.

Siditty said...

What pissed me off was the way they made this woman go from calm, to complete finger twirling psycho the moment she didn't like something.

That is what made me mad. Honestly I don't think as a black woman I have ever done that in even my most angriest get on the soap box moment. I don't know many black women who do.

I hate how ghetto or low class=black, and apparently white folks think all negros live in the ghetto or are low class.

(I've never understood the appeal of male strippers, it's just so awkward to me. The guy was hot, but the gyrating? no

I can't get into male strippers, I do not need your herpes infested crotch sweat anywhere near me or on me. Stay at a distance, you will be fine, get to gyrating all up on me, I will fight.
---------

Apparently the list of people one can still make fun of are gays, fat people and black Women. Only if it is in the benefit of the Black male will there be objection.


I find this to be true more and more everyday.

The other day I heard a leading British White feminist state that the Civil Rights movement was for the Black Male, the Feminist Movement was for the white women. Minority women simply fell through the cracks. I was I amazed to hear a White woman acknowledge that.

It's the truth, but most white women and most black men will not acknowledge that.

Siditty said...

1) Really?
The KGB ads make fun of whomever they use to sell their service.

How would a real woman respond in the real world?
The commercial was pretty close to fact.


Seriously all the black women you are around act like that? Seriously? I have never ever in my life rolled my neck or waved my finger, and acted like I was one step away from singing a negro spiritual in anger. I don't think most black women do that, that is a stereotype that has been propagated by the media and unfortunately the black community. It so needs to stop and if this is the type of woman you are hanging around, you need to run away.

IMO - That's what the woman gets for fakin' da funk. She shoulda' worn her own natural hair.

As a natural head for 10 years, who has never worn weave or extensions of any kind, I am not saying she should have been wearing a wig, but I understand. We are told unless we have "good hair" that black hair is unattractive, unkempt, and hard to manage. If she had gone with a short fro, somebody there would have been talking about her buckshots. Plus men prefer longer hair and there is a misconception, even within the black community that black women can't have long hair that blows in the wind just like white girls, so many of us fake it with weave. So as a black woman, no matter how you wear your hair, your damned if you do or damned if you don't.

I was still laughing when he pulled her wig off. My white husband even knew you don't go around touching on black women's hair. Even though I welcome it, I understand not a lot of black women do.

laromana said...

1) Really?
The KGB ads make fun of whomever they use to sell their service.

How would a real woman respond in the real world?
The commercial was pretty close to fact.

2) The brotha' kept the show going in the second video. He played it off fairly well.
I woulda' been like the guy in "I'm Gonna' Get You Sucka'" and just gotten up.
IMO - That's what the woman gets for fakin' da funk. She shoulda' worn her own natural hair.
=========================
Oh, I get it. When the media/American society promotes ANTI-BM stereotypes we ALL need to be up in arms and protest because it's hurtful to BM, but when BW are targeted by RACIST, ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, STEREOTYPES we just need to "accept it" and find it "humorous".

Grata said,
See why I am off the Black male cause? There is nothing in it for the Black Woman for the Black Male to advance. Unless of course your appearance is not typical of a Black Woman.

Grata, I agree with you completely in this regard. If MOST BM think it's fine (and funny) to TRASH BW and go along with those who do, there is NO reason why BW need to stand up in their defense when they are being attacked.
=========================
MOST BW are NOTHING like the ASSININE STEREOTYPES portrayed in this (and many) ad(s) like it.

Also, BW ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO WEAR WEAVES/EXTENSIONS (WIGS). Women of ALL RACES wear them, too.

Like women of ANY RACE, BW can wear their hair ANY WAY THEY WANT without having to expect to be DEGRADED, DEMEANED, and DISRESPECTED by the media/American society.

Seattle Slim said...

WOW! I was trudging along and then hit a big ass brick wall when I got to the "Oh no! You better not be puttin' no YAK up in my weave."

I mean, really? Why would you even cosign to read the part? I don't know. A check is a check I guess. I am giving this a big WTF.

Anonymous said...

more black women, even those that don't wear extensions, didn't have a problem with the comparison of afro-textured hair to that of a damn yak.
-------

Yeah, mink would have been all right, but not a damn yak, right?! LOL.

Anonymous said...

Nothing more to say except that i hope they pull that commercial; i've never felt more uncomfortable.
----

I felt no discomfort whatsoever as I don't wear weave, wigs, extensions, etc (and I don't act like Shanaynay, either). I think the BW who had the most visceral reaction to the commercial are the ones who can't imagine life without fake hair.

Siditty said...

I think the BW who had the most visceral reaction to the commercial are the ones who can't imagine life without fake hair.


I don't wear weave, never have in my life, but I was offended at the stereotypical neck rolling full of attitude black woman that is supposedly "accurate" and the norm for black women.

Anonymous said...

You're offended all the time. Get rid of you're TV and pc.

Siditty said...

You're offended all the time. Get rid of you're TV and pc.

Uuuhhhmmm no, I just prefer to get rid of the stupidity. I'm surprised you didn't just post some stuff from that racist website Stuff Black People Don't Like as you always do.

CB said...

I remember when I first saw this ad, and I was shocked. It wasn't so awful until they mentioned Yak hair and we got a nice dose of the of-so-funny angry finger spinning neck twisting black woman stereotype. That sort of came from nowhere, the women seemed so calm at first. I definitely didn't expect it.

Grata sd: "There is nothing in it for the Black Woman for the Black Male to advance. Unless of course your appearance is not typical of a Black Woman."

Do you mean non-black women (as they would not typical have the appearance of a black woman)? Or Black women who don't fit what I guess is your definition of typical? What would that be anyway? Black women (and Black people) in general come in every combination of skin shade, eye color, hair texture, and what ever else. So I have trouble understanding what is supposed to be typical. I feel like this concept of a typical black woman is a myth and only creates separation where there shouldn't be. If someone is Black, they're Black regardless of how well they match the typical or the stereotype.

Also the advancement of Black men, benefits (or doesn't benefit) all Black women equally.

Sorry to go a little off topic but I keep seeing this mentioned and it disturbs me. We keep inventing divisions for ourselves that ultimately screw us over.

Grata said...

"It's the truth, but most white women and most black men will not acknowledge that."

To me its no different from Whites denying racism.
The leader of this organization is the one who made the statements and is using her position to reach out to Minorities Women's cause.

The Fawcett Society
It makes you wonder what their true motivation is. Could it be that the White Feminist Movement has lost steam and they have to use those that have something serious to gripe about?

Grata said...

"Grata, I agree with you completely in this regard. If MOST BM think it's fine (and funny) to TRASH BW and go along with those who do, there is NO reason why BW need to stand up in their defense when they are being attacked."

The latest incident with Gates showed how fatigued Black Women have become over issues affecting the Black Male.


"Do you mean non-black women (as they would not typical have the appearance of a black woman)? Or Black women who don't fit what I guess is your definition of typical? What would that be anyway? Black women (and Black people) in general come in every combination of skin shade, eye color, hair texture, and what ever else. So I have trouble understanding what is supposed to be typical. I feel like this concept of a typical black woman is a myth and only creates separation where there shouldn't be. If someone is Black, they're Black regardless of how well they match the typical or the stereotype."

Oh please, for how long will we continue to pretend that BW are discrimninated against by Black men based on their looks and skin color?

Yeah, Black is Black right and we should look out for each other. Who looks out for the the down trodden Black female that looks phenotypically West African? We are supposed to ignore our internal discrimination for what purpose exactly?

It is very evident that Black men discriminate dark skinned Black Women. When is this issue going to be seriously addressed? But no, we are supposed to not be angry and bitter about being discriminated against but be ready to stand up and defend the Black man when he gets discriminated by Whites? For the sake of Unity, really?
What do you take those dicriminated women for, Slaves?

laromana said...

I think the BW who had the most visceral reaction to the commercial are the ones who can't imagine life without fake hair.
=======================

BW who don't/have NEVER worn extensions/weaves and those who do have been EQUALLY OFFENDED by this ASSININE ad because it promotes a RACIST, ANTI-BW STEREOTYPE about ALL BW.

The issue ISN'T whether a BW does or doesn't wear extensions/weaves because women of ALL RACES do. The point is that BW have the RIGHT to wear their hair ANY WAY THEY WANT without being DEFAMED, DEGRADED and DISRESPECTED by Hollywood/media world and American society.

graphixie said...

"You're offended all the time. Get rid of you're TV and pc."

Anonymous, if you're going to try and be gutsy and take a jab at the author of a blog, at least take the time to use proper grammar. A blog is a place for the author to share whatever they want. If you don't like what they're sharing, don't read it. Are there topics you'd prefer Sid to post about? If you have suggestions, start your own blog.

Anonymous said...

Also the advancement of Black men, benefits (or doesn't benefit) all Black women equally.
-----------------------------------

Some people just choose to stay stuck on stupid

laromana said...

Do you mean non-black women (as they would not typical have the appearance of a black woman)? Or Black women who don't fit what I guess is your definition of typical? What would that be anyway? Black women (and Black people) in general come in every combination of skin shade, eye color, hair texture, and what ever else. So I have trouble understanding what is supposed to be typical. I feel like this concept of a typical black woman is a myth and only creates separation where there shouldn't be. If someone is Black, they're Black regardless of how well they match the typical or the stereotype.
=====================

Although BW come in "every combination of skin shade, eye color, hair texture, and what ever else", it's OBVIOUS that Hollywood/media world DO NOT present a POSITIVE image of ALL types of BW.

HW/media world have chosen to only present CERTAIN TYPES of BW in a POSITIVE way.

Ehav Ever said...

I have a question and statement concerning the particular women in the first video, and maybe even the second on some level.

The question part:

Is it considered that the actresses in the first video also bear some of the responsibility for the image as actors they are potraying? Is it a harder struggle to erase the stereotype when there are women willing to fill it?

For example, if every African American actress refused such a role on the basis of the stereotype then the ad company would have to reconsider their approach. If they decide to try to fill in the gap by using non AA women in order to meet the stereotype they would then more openly expose their racism, which would make it easier to fight them since they would have made it clear.

Also, in that concord if the ad company were made to fear the wrath of a defined and organized group able to severaly affect their financial holdings whenever such ads were made, in conjunction with the refusal of AA actresses to play the parts could this eventually acheive the desired affect? If it is agreed that such an approach could work, what actions can be physically organized by AA women and other like minded types to start making such a thing the reality?

The statement part will be in my next post.

Ehav Ever said...

Now for the statement part 1:

When I was about to enter high school my family moved out of our tight knit community, for the suburbs where there was no community. I attended a high that was about 60% Euro-American (white), 30% African American/Black, and 10% other. I found out that there was a ritual called freshman day where every Friday black male upperclassmen (sophmores to seniors) would beat up African American male freshman. Sometimes they would declare other days of the week as freshman day and beat us up on those days also. This was done quite publically and EVERYONE knew about including administrators and teachers.

The school had ONE black official who was the vice president, but he was worthless and did nothing to help us. No one at the school put an end to freshman day, and the most of they would do was escort us to class. They would claim that they could not help us since none of us would snitch on those who were beating us (pretty much most of the black upper classmen). Please not there were about 5 rules to freshman day. One of them was if a freshman snitches he would be beat up worse. My take on it back then was because it was only blacks doing it AA's they did not care. If it had been blacks doing it to whites they would have put an end to it early on.

So one day I was having a debate with some of my Euro-American (white) friends about stereotypes and race and just as I about to win the arguement a group of black male upperclassmen came and beat me up in front of them. Of course When they finished my white friends said, "See what mean, I am glad I am not black. You guys are getting your butts kicked by your own people." I didn't have a come back for that one, at that time. At that time the world I was living in was broken up into black, white, and other. Also because I was new at the school and I made the mistake of sitting at the freshman table I was marked.

I once was beat up on birthday when a fellow AA freshman, who bullied me, told all the upperclassmen it was my birthday. The black upperclassemen beat me so bad that day I couldn't move my left arm for almost two weeks. Thus some of the stereotypes that my white friends had were further entrenched because the beat down I received was a PUBLIC one in gym class. I was chased in front of everyone in my gym class into a closed off area and beat up for about 10 minutes.

I carried that pain with me for years, and I refused to become to close with the adminstrators who did nothing to stop it and made excuses why they couldn't do the moral thing and put our safety as a priority. This and that school was supposed to be the pinnicle of the typical white suburban school dream.

At the same time, I also remember fellow students hiding me, when they saw the upperclassmen coming to beat up AA freshmen. Some of these people had no reason to help me besides their own humanity, some of them were Euro-American, and some of them were AA girls who took an interest in my safety. I remember once a group of AA girls yelling for me to run as fast as I could when I was being chased to my bus, in full public view, by a group of black upperclassmen who I narrowly escaped.

Thus it was hard to fight the stereotype because the reality I had accepted, at that time, was that skin color alone connected me to a group of guys who I had nothing in common with. That type of beat down treatment went on for a year. Once I entered my sophmore year there was a freshman being chased by some upperclassmen, most of whom had beat me up the year before. They started beating up the freshman near my locker and then called for me to join in. I told them that I refused, and they answered "You need to pay him for what happened to you last year." I responded, "If I have a problem with someone it was with the people who beat me up last year, which was all of you guys. My eyes are wide open, you are not my people and I don't know you." Then I walked off.

Ehav Ever said...

Now for the statement part 2:

Over the next two years, freshman day stopped, and with it many of the stereotypes about AA previlent at the school ceased. The reason was that the next group of AA's did not continue the practice, and those who did take part in it graduated; some of whom led horrible lives after high school. Also the freshman during the next few years were more numerous and bigger than we were in comparison to the upperclassmen. They were also more bold than we were, and by the time I was a senior more of them were willing to fight back. Thus when the supply of black young men willing to continue to perpetuate freshman day dried up and more AA young men were willing to fight against those who were their enemies, the stereotypes freshman day helped foster about AA's also ceased at the school.

Even as a male I can completely understand where Grata is coming from. The struggle to destroy the stereotypes of AA women is a war that only AA women, and anyone willing to attach themselves to the struggle, can win by being organized, focused, and willing to fight until the desired result is achieved. The struggle of AA men is not the same as that of the AA women, and the solutions are also different in nature as well as the affects on society. That doesn't mean that there are no crossroads, but it has to be realized that solving one problem doesn't always equate to solving problems for both sides.

I know exactly what it is like to think someone shares your struggle only to find out that you are alone, and that the solution can ONLY come from yourself and a minority of outside like minded people who have made the choice to make your struggle their struggle. I also know what it is like to declare people, who should be a part of the struggle, to be in bed with the enemy. These people must be declared to be in league with the enemy and dealt with as if they are also the enemy. These are simply the realities of life.

Anonymous said...

Get rid of your blog,If you want to get rid of stupidity.

CB said...

Grata sd: "Yeah, Black is Black right and we should look out for each other. Who looks out for the the down trodden Black female that looks phenotypically West African?"

Again what is phenotypically West African? There has so much interracial "mixing" in Africa as well as everywhere else, that Africans come in every shade, eye color, hair texture, etc. You still have not been able to demonstrate what is a "typical Black person or a typical African".

---------------------------------------
Grata sd: "We are supposed to ignore our internal discrimination for what purpose exactly?

It is very evident that Black men discriminate dark skinned Black Women. When is this issue going to be seriously addressed? But no, we are supposed to not be angry and bitter about being discriminated against but be ready to stand up and defend the Black man when he gets discriminated by Whites? For the sake of Unity, really?"

Black men also discriminate against "light-skindedededed" women too. They discriminate against natural hair, relaxed hair, weaves. Some Black men discriminate against women period. My point is because of what some men (and women who are just as sad and ignorant) do you think it's better to play into their discrimination.

I understand it is an internal issue and it should be addressed, but do you think people addressing it properly when they mention the divide over and over again; when they make accusations or assumptions about a so-called group. It really seems like you're just discriminating back. Fighting discrimination with discrimination.

And what is stranger still is that in constantly referring to this division of black women based on their appearance your only giving it validity. Why would you validate something that was created by people you don't support and discriminate against you.

Finally, you mentioned standing up for black men, I didn't even mention them in my previous comment, b/c this is an issue among black women that should be squelched. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you're doing anything to stop it.

Yanmommasaid said...

The anon who said only women who wear weaves would be offended comes off as oh so pleased with herself for not wearing fake hair. I have 100% real and natural hair and I'm smart enough to know the issue was bigger than weaves and more about the propagation of an ugly stereotype about ALL black women being obnoxious, loud, and entirely déclassé. The ad was disgusting.

Another thing is many libraries offer what they are selling, text reference services, for FREE anyway.

If you are angered by this ad, send some comments to the company. I intend to.
KGB
655 Madison Ave., 21st Fl.
New York, NY 10021-8043
Phone: 212-909-8282
Toll Free: 888-463-6699
Fax: 610-997-1050

Chairman & CEO
Robert A. Pines

Network Global CFO
David Freedman

Network Global CTO
Christine A. Baumeister

Network Chief People Officer Kevin Gaugush

Network Chief Communications Officer
Amy L. Wolfcale

________________

To Ehav, the actresses in the ad or also at fault but not nearly as much as the company. You will ALWAYS find someone ready to disgrace themselves and their race/sex/whatever other group for some nominal personal profit. Do we need to make peace with being portrayed in a certain negative light as long as even ONE black person is willing to live up to the stereotype? BTW, that was a horrible story. I am sorry you had to experience and glad the practice stopped.
________________
I'm also extremely tired of weaves and wigs being exclusively linked to black women even though we are hardly the only ones using them. Every black woman with more than 2 inches of hair is assumed to have a weave or wig on her head. I've personally had white people demand I admit my hair is fake when it is not. Should I start asking white women with plump lips where they got their collagen, or asian women who aren't flat-assed/chested who did their implants?

thelady said...

I agree with those that stated no person deserves to be demeaned over how they wear their hair or their other beauty choices. If it was really about real vs fake then we'd be publicly shaming women who wear makeup. Really what this ad is about is demeaning and stereotyping black women. The idea that all black women have fake hair is rampant, I was on some random twitter page and several white people had put up a picture of a black woman with micro braids to mock.

@ Ehav, I experienced a great deal of bullying in school and while none if it every escalated to the point of physical violence the threat was there and the damage was done. I learned my lesson early on not to expect racial solidarity.

Jasmin said...

Ehav Ever,

A question: Do you use the terms "African American" and "black" interchangeably? In one post, when you mentioned the racial makeup of your school, you grouped them together, so I assumed they were the same thing. But then you started switching it up, so I was under the impression that Black American upperclassmen were beating up African Americans (meaning children of African immigrants). I'm not sure if that's what you meant; I would suggest (as a professor once suggested to me) that you use either Black or African American, but not both, since you aren't talking about 2 different groups. :-)

Ehav Ever said...

Hello Jasmin,

Just to let you know I have a different perspective when it comes to race and the terms used for it. I.e. I also use Euro-American and white to denote known and unknown ethnic make up in American. I.e. where most Americans would say white to group all whites together, if I know that there is a specific grouping of them with a clear ethnic identity and I am being pluralistic I will use the word Euro-American. If it is an unknown ethnic group I will use white.

Concerning the terms African American vs. Black. I use both terms seperately for a reason similar to what I mentioned above. Like how Chris Rock told a joke about how there was a civil war going on between black people and the N-people. I use African American when I am speaking of what I would call the various ethnicities that make up African Americans. I.e. a known cultural, linquistic, and religious identity. Because of the threat against all freshmen, during that time I knew what their ethnicities were thus I could use the term African American. The upperclassment on the other hand because of their behavior I could determine their ethnic or moral identity.

I use the two terms in stories like this to denote the difference between the two groups. I.e. that they are not the same people. The group that were beating us up did not identify their ethnic or moral make up and their actions made them a different class of people. I.e. anyone no matter their ethnic make up who is African American can be related to, but those who I cannot identify their ethnic or moral or who make it clear that they are at a completely diametrically opposed position to what I know to be African American I term differently. I once wrote an article on my blog about how I see this here.

For example, I would never call a gang member who is black an African American. I consider that person to have placed themselves outside of the ethnic and moral constructs that I relate to being African American. That is just me.

Ehav Ever said...

thelady wrote:
@ Ehav, I experienced a great deal of bullying in school and while none if it every escalated to the point of physical violence the threat was there and the damage was done. I learned my lesson early on not to expect racial solidarity.

Ehav Ever's Response
Sorry to hear about the bullying you experienced. I can be a wake up call though. You are right about the soladarity. I only believe in the soladarity of like minded people and that can cross all kinds of ethnic and racial lines. This is why I believe that there needs to be an organized front of African American women and any liked minded people to lead the way in defeating the stereotypes. These things are international now and people around the world are forming opinions on what Western media is feeding them. I am going to be doing a couple of YouTube videos on this topic next month.

Ehav Ever said...

To Jasmin,

I forgot to mention. When I broke down what appeared to be a racial component at my old high school, that was based on my perception when I first arrived there. At that time I only saw the world in terms of black, white, and other. Once the freshman day thing started and continued I saw the world in a more broader sense, and that list of the make up expanded. Once I realized that I needed to remain within my own family cultural context I realized why such a thing could happen and such people could not be reasoned with. I.e. their cultural and moral outlook was different than many of the freshman they were beating up. Though in their eyes they saw us all as the same people. In their minds they had the power and the right to inflict that pain on us because they considered us one of them. One upperclassman once began hitting me in front of a teacher and when she jokingly interviewed he claimed to her he was related to me, and he hit me some more when she left.

Looking back, and this may sound harsh, if I had known more about the situation and had a more clear view that things were not so black and white I would have made a better choice of who to associate with. The African American kids who were not easily identified as being somehow connected to the upperclassmen who did freshman day were left alone until they were identified as being freshmen.

No one intially know who I was, so at first I was left alone. That was until I made the mistake of sitting at the wrong table. After that beat downs commenced every friday for me. Gym class was the worst because we were often attacked in the locker room, and the coaches treated it as boys being boys.

Truth B. Told said...

The struggle to destroy the stereotypes of AA women is a war that only AA women, and anyone willing to attach themselves to the struggle, can win by being organized, focused, and willing to fight until the desired result is achieved.

Thank you ehave. You said what I have been trying to tell her. Instead of focusing so much on what Black men in general are doing/not doing and demonizing them for it, she should be focused on Black women and those who are doing something for them.

And what is stranger still is that in constantly referring to this division of black women based on their appearance your only giving it validity. Why would you validate something that was created by people you don't support and discriminate against you.

Finally, you mentioned standing up for black men, I didn't even mention them in my previous comment, b/c this is an issue among black women that should be squelched. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you're doing anything to stop it
.

Bravo and amen to CB. Once again, she is too focused on what Black men are doing to be useful to other Black women at this time. Maybe your statement will resonate with her.

Grata said...

"Again what is phenotypically West African? There has so much interracial "mixing" in Africa as well as everywhere else, that Africans come in every shade, eye color, hair texture, etc. You still have not been able to demonstrate what is a "typical Black person or a typical African"."

Oh dear, is this how far in denial we are. Pretend every one looks mixed and therefore there is no reason to address the issue.
And please don't play dumb and pretend not to know what I mean.

Before coming to America I believed Black Americans were all light skinned and were "mixed". I was informed by the Media. Then I went to School for 2 years in the South Bay and had to go through Urban neighborhoods that some may call ghetto and Lo and Behold I say saw many dark people that were even darker that my own people. And according to research the Urban Landscape is populated mostly by darker skinned Blacks. But some want us to believe that Black Americans are all mixed. I have even heard someone say that Africans are much darker than American Blacks. From my observation and experience this is not true at all. All groups vary in hue. However in America this has serious implications in terms of social mobility especially for the dark skinned woman.

How many times have you seen the Black Women attitude stereotype and the woman was light skinned?

"I understand it is an internal issue and it should be addressed, but do you think people addressing it properly when they mention the divide over and over again; when they make accusations or assumptions about a so-called group. It really seems like you're just discriminating back. Fighting discrimination with discrimination."

Very convinient for you to throw back discrimination at me. Did I suggest light skinned women should be discriminated against?
By the way I am aware of the Light skinned woman's challenges too as regards the Black Male. I am addressing the Darker skinned woman's issue right now.
Generally people who benefit from a system are reluctant to get active against it. Lighter skinned women by far benefit from the status quo. There are down sides but very few would want things to change. Interesting how discrimination works. One who chooses to protest is a threat to that one that benefits thus your convinient accusation of me being discriminating.
Just like whites and racism. The parallels are unbelieable.
Light skinned women are generally silent about this issue. There are afew activists out there that call out for the injustice and intra racial discrimination but the majority like your self (I am guessing oyu are light skinned) would hate for things to change.
Black men will continue to discriminate against Black women as long as people like you enable them and defend them in their efforts.

Truth B. Told said...

The struggle to destroy the stereotypes of AA women is a war that only AA women, and anyone willing to attach themselves to the struggle, can win by being organized, focused, and willing to fight until the desired result is achieved.

Thank you ehave. You said what I have been trying to tell her. Instead of focusing so much on what Black men in general are doing/not doing and demonizing them for it, she should be focused on Black women and those who are doing something for them.

And what is stranger still is that in constantly referring to this division of black women based on their appearance your only giving it validity. Why would you validate something that was created by people you don't support and discriminate against you.

Finally, you mentioned standing up for black men, I didn't even mention them in my previous comment, b/c this is an issue among black women that should be squelched. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you're doing anything to stop it
.

Bravo and amen to CB. Once again, she is too focused on what Black men are doing to be useful to other Black women at this time. Maybe your statement will resonate with her.

Truth B. Told said...

If my last post is a double post, please delete one of them and this message. Sorry, not sure if went through twice or at at all.

Grata said...

"And what is stranger still is that in constantly referring to this division of black women based on their appearance your only giving it validity. Why would you validate something that was created by people you don't support and discriminate against you."

Really?! So we are supposed to shut up for fear of being divided and conquered while some at the bottom continue to suffer? Again who do you think these Dark skinned women are, Slaves?
Are you familiar with the Sick Family Rules? One of the rules in sick twisted or Alcoholic families is never to air the dirty laundry. So the Children with in the family suffer from chronic in silence and are damaged for the rest of their lives.

In essence what you are telling those women receiving the short end of the stick is to be quiet since light skinned women too have their challenges and raising the issue gives teh "enemy" more power to "conquer". Do you realize how sick that sounds? I am guessing you don't. The status quo obviously works for you.


"Finally, you mentioned standing up for black men, I didn't even mention them in my previous comment, b/c this is an issue among black women that should be squelched. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you're doing anything to stop it."

That was not in response to you.
Stop what? My personal opinion is that Black Women need to minimize their support for Black men because it is simply not paying off for them. Only those that have the desired appearance that Black men like will gain from the success of Black men.
Until Black men collectively wake up and for once address issues affecting Black Women and Children, support for them IMO is wasted.

Asha said...

Whats funny about this stereotype is that I RARELY see any black women in REAL LIFE behaving in such a manor, I only see this on films and television. Also anonymous I never suggested extensions to be called anything "cuter" such as mink, my question is where did the word yaki come from in the first place, if not in comparison to a yak?

uglyblackjohn said...

@ Sid - Do you squirm when you see a Black person getting arrested on the news?
Do you cringe when you see a Black television show?

I don't.
Those people are NOT me.
The ads portayed an image put forth by those in the BLACK media (Tyler Perry, Wayans Bros, Barbershop/Beautyshop movies).

BLACK actors, directors and producers put these images out there.
For many whites, the only Blacks they have in their homes are those on their T.V..

Truth B. Told said...

The latest incident with Gates showed how fatigued Black Women have become over issues affecting the Black Male.

And by my estimation, Dr. Gates is doing just fine. The charges were dropped, this incident will give him "street cred" among the his students and with white liberals. The whole world now knows of his friendship with the president, so that is more social currency for him.

Oh and he still has his home, his job, and his wife.

Siditty said...

How would a real woman respond in the real world?
The commercial was pretty close to fact.

This is why it matters. When folks go around thinking this is normal, no matter how absurd it is, it is a problem and feeds into the continuous racism and stereotypes that plague black people.

uglyblackjohn said...

@ Sid - I bet a lot of Black women "went ghetto" when they saw the ad and began head shakin' and finger waggin' at their sets..

graphixie said...

"Those people are NOT me.
The ads portayed an image put forth by those in the BLACK media (Tyler Perry, Wayans Bros, Barbershop/Beautyshop movies).

BLACK actors, directors and producers put these images out there.
For many whites, the only Blacks they have in their homes are those on their T.V.."

They don't reflect me either, but if this is the consistent image seen in the media, it becomes the norm in the way Black people in America are seen -- and then it goes from being the norm to being the punch-line of a joke. The frustration comes from the lack of variety (yes, we have some excellent examples of Black achievement in the media--but then compare that to the plethora that perpetuate only the negative stereotypes). Clearly not all black people act this way, but someone who isn't familiar with multi-racial environments wouldn't think so if they turned on a tv.

Based on these blog responses, it's clear that not all black people think or talk (or write I guess) the same way, but consistently showing stereotypes like the ones in the commercial make it seem like we're a homogeneous group with no deviations whatsoever.
__________________

Ehav:
"If I have a problem with someone it was with the people who beat me up last year, which was all of you guys. My eyes are wide open, you are not my people and I don't know you."

Good for you for saying this and standing up to those idiots.

Ehav Ever said...

Yanmommasaid wrote:
To Ehav, the actresses in the ad or also at fault but not nearly as much as the company. You will ALWAYS find someone ready to disgrace themselves and their race/sex/whatever other group for some nominal personal profit.


Ehav Ever's Response:
Greetings Yanmommasaid. You are correct that people can always be found to disgrace themselves and others who can be connected to them. The question though is what do you do about those people? If they are willfully filling a demand for the stereotype they are helping to perpetuate it regardless of how small or how great their part is.

Without those kind of people the Ad Companies would have to go another route, and that route would more than likely openly expose their racism. Without actresses willing to portray these kinds of roles they would be hard pressed to try and find ways to generate a product that contins them.

So with that said, the only way I know how to deal with the type of people who are willing to disgrace themselves and those who can be associated with them is to:

1) Reach out to them and try to bring them back to the fold.

2) Give them an opportunity to respond to the gesture.

3) If they are willing to recant and be down with the cause bring them back with open arms.

4) If they are unwilling to listen to reason and/or to continue to stand against the cause by their actions, excommunicate them and the add company would be publically and eternally boycotted.

Ehav Ever said...

Yanmommasaid wrote:
Do we need to make peace with being portrayed in a certain negative light as long as even ONE black person is willing to live up to the stereotype?


Ehav Ever's Response:
Concerning your question about making peace with being portrayed in a negative light. I think you may have misunderstand what I am getting at. I am saying that there should be NO PEACE with ANYONE who willingly and willifully help perpetuate those kind of stereotypes. If the above steps were taken and they refuse to be on the side of truth, then there is no peace with them.

I am trying to understand what various black women think is the solution when you are fighting a war against a stereotype and people who should be on your side of the battle are sneaking over or even just running over to the side of the enemy. At some point you have to do something about them, because without them the ad company would have had a hard time making the comerical. I have a personal and harsh veiw of what to do, but I am trying to understand the view of the women here who are affected by the stereotype.

If the women in the comercial who assitted with the perpetuation of the stereotype and the ad company (filled with men and women of all classes and races) claim ignorance to the issues, maybe they can be given a respite for their ignornace. For me they would have to publicly denouce it and redirect their energies to the proper portrayal of black women to win me over. Yet, the minute it is known that they knew full well what they were doing I would say it is war. To me, that means there is no friendship with them or kinship with them or any of their financial supporters EVER.

So in the case of the ad company, I would basically go out and do a public smear compaign against them, and I would do it in the places that they don't exactly have direct access..to the youth, the schools, and any open ear willing to hear the issue and side with the cause. I would make it publically known that there will be an ETERNAL boycott of them and their activities with my people and all like minded people. I would organize all like minded people against said company for an ETERNAL boycott, and nothing said company can do would bring us back to them.

I would offer my support to any company willing to portray the truth. I would also support those people like myself who are portraying ourselves in the right light. This is the ONLY approach I know to take when it comes to destroying stereotypes. Otherwise people become complacent in simply complainging about the stereotype and not fighting it. Yet, it take organization, planning, strategy, and the will to fight until the desired goal is acheived.

I like your approach of listing and mailing those who are responsible. Letting them know they have been put on notice that their actions are that of an enemy.

Ehav Ever said...

graphixie wrote:
Good for you for saying this and standing up to those idiots.


Ehav Ever's Response:
Thanks graphixie. The MAJOR regret I have, looking back, was I would have made a more powerful statement if I had stood up to them when it really mattered. That is when they were coming to beat me up while I was a freshman. If I had learned back then, like I have been learning now, how to defend myself and do ANYTHING it takes to take down an identified enemy it would have made a stronger statement and would have left me with a better state of mind about that time of my life instead of the regret I someties have.

There were two freshmen that year who fought back against the upperclassmen. Both of them were bigger than the average freshman that year. One of them was named Aron and when a few upperclassment tried to hit him one day he started randomly fighting back against them and their friends. A teacher only saw him hitting them and took him to the office to get detention.

Another one was a guy named Jason. He was the freshman I mentioned that bullied me. One day on his bus home 3 upperclassmen were harassing a freshman, and Jason went off. I think he was a having a really bad day and even though they weren't attacking him the story goes he suddenly jumped up and let out a yell like the Incrediable Hulk. He beat all 3 upperclassment up.

Needless to say the next day I was walking to the locker room and I heard someone being beat up. I came around the corner and a really tall senior who should have graduated at least a year or two earlier was holding Jason while one of the upperclassment he beat up the day before was hitting him. Because Jason had bullied me and had gotten me beat up on my birthday I didn't feel like I owed him any favors. So I just ran off and hid for a while.

When I came out of hiding I heard Jason was looking for me and he was angry. So I prepared myself for him to try and go off on me for not helping him. When he found me he yelled out, There you are! Look what they did to me!. Jason was light brown in complexion and they had beat him so hard you could see the knucle prints on his chest and stomach. He then jumped on a bleacher next to me laid out on it face down and started sobbing.

Ehav Ever said...

Cont'd
Weird as it may sound, there was a freshman that year that was helping the upperclassman beat up freshman. He was a bigger guy and some say he had gang affiliations. Everyone thought he was a sophtmore. My second year I had a class with him that was only for sophmores and he admitted to me that while he was beating us up he was a freshman, but no one knew it because of his size.

There was even a time when all the African American freshmen got together in the only free hall way where we were somewhat safe. He declared unity amongst us and that we would not allow Freshman day to go on. We said we were going to fight back if the upperclassmen came for us. Everyone was down for the cause. Then a large group of upperclassmen started making their way down the hallway. Every AA freshman in the hallway made a run for it. We all hid in whatever classroom we could get to, even if it wasn't ours. A kid named Earle who had a knew condition where he needed a cane decided he was tired of hiding and he walked out to go to class. Needless to say we heard him yell out, we saw the upperclassmen beat him up, we saw his legs fly in the air as his was knocked to the ground, and then we saw him trying to getting off the floor.

Looking back, that was time when I wish I had been brave enough to stand up. That would have been the time when all of us AA freshmen and those people who were like minded could have stood together and fought against those upperclassmen and made them pay for what they did to Earle and what they were doing to us and the image of AA's. Even if we had failed, if we had continued to fight everytime they threatened us maybe freshman day would have ended that year. Maybe, had enough of us had been bold enough like Aron and Jason were and had been fearless in our self-defense, the upperclassmen would have had to reconsider their venture. Maybe, the high level of intensity on our part, no matter the cost would have roused the school to put an end to the whole thing. Also, maybe if we had threatened to cause havoc at the school by going after individual upperclassmen involved in freshman day, unless the officials do their job and protect our safety things would have been different.

This may sound harsh, but this is how I think now a days. Action...action....action and action. That is how I feel this whole situation concerning the honor of black women can be solved. Yet, it requires ORGANIATION, FOCUS, and the will to fight until the desire goal is acheived.

laromana said...

Ehav,
Thanks for sharing your very personal and sad experience of being attacked, on the basis of your race and sex, by other BM who should have been on your side. Thanks, too, for the excellent suggestions (please see below) you've shared of what BW can do to put an end to the disrespect and discriminatory treatment we receive from the media world/American society.

EHAV'S POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS TO ANTI-BW MEDIA ATTACKS:

-For example, if every African American actress refused such a role on the basis of the stereotype then the ad company would have to reconsider their approach. If they decide to try to fill in the gap by using non AA women in order to meet the stereotype they would then more openly expose their racism, which would make it easier to fight them since they would have made it clear.

-Also, in that concord if the ad company were made to fear the wrath of a defined and organized group able to severaly affect their financial holdings whenever such ads were made, in conjunction with the refusal of AA actresses to play the parts could this eventually acheive the desired affect? If it is agreed that such an approach could work, what actions can be physically organized by AA women and other like minded types to start making such a thing the reality?

-So in the case of the ad company, I would basically go out and do a public smear compaign against them, and I would do it in the places that they don't exactly have direct access..to the youth, the schools, and any open ear willing to hear the issue and side with the cause. I would make it publically known that there will be an ETERNAL boycott of them and their activities with my people and all like minded people. I would organize all like minded people against said company for an ETERNAL boycott, and nothing said company can do would bring us back to them.

-I would offer my support to any company willing to portray the truth. I would also support those people like myself who are portraying ourselves in the right light. This is the ONLY approach I know to take when it comes to destroying stereotypes. Otherwise people become complacent in simply complainging about the stereotype and not fighting it. Yet, it take organization, planning, strategy, and the will to fight until the desired goal is acheived.

collegebound11 said...

Ha Ha. I saw the second on on MediaFakeOut.com. They tore her up.

CB said...

"Light skinned women are generally silent about this issue. There are afew activists out there that call out for the injustice and intra racial discrimination but the majority like your self (I am guessing oyu are light skinned) would hate for things to change.
Black men will continue to discriminate against Black women as long as people like you enable them and defend them in their efforts."

again, what the hell? and LOL. You guessed wrong, I'm not "light-skinnededed". I figure I'm medium since some people have taken it upon themselves to inform me that I am "light-skindeded" and others have told me I'm "darker". Honestly it seems that as dark or light as anyone is there is always someone darker or lighter, and the whole thing becomes arbitrary and ridiculous. As far as me benefitting from it and hating for things to change. I already stated my feelings about it. I really find the division and discrimination based upon it unnatural and sickening. You maybe too consumed with whatever to believe me, but I can't do anything about that.

Again you bring up black men? I thought we were talking about black women I'm not defending them, it just happens that in this instance I'm not attacking them b/c I'm discussing this issue as it relates to black women's treatment of each other. Support or opposition of what black men do, in this particular discussion is just irrelevant. I do agree with you that black women need to be looking out for black women b/c the civil rights movement and the feminist movement did not address our needs. A division between black men and women based on gender does make sense (history has shown this),because it will allow black women to focus on our issues.

Ehav Ever said...

Hello Laromana,

You summed up my points very well. I am going to do two videos in Octobor for my blog basically laying out those points and others on how I fell stereotypes about black women can be destroyed and overturned. It is for a thing called A Month of Positive Solutions.

I think I have a pretty solid foundation on how it can be done. The hard part is for people to organize and and start putting in the work. Thus getting beyond debate and getting into action mode is always the hardest part.

laromana said...

Ehav,
Thanks for your encouraging, inspiring, and uplifting actions to help BW defend themselves against the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that is evident in the media world/American society.

This subject has been discussed on several BW empowerment blogs. Please let them know about your plans to post practical solutions for this problem so that we can organize ourselves in an effective way.

Ehav Ever said...

Hello Laronamo,

No problem at all. Do you know of any sites that I should focus towards?

laromana said...

Sure, Ehav.
Check out the Black Fire/White Fire blog link on Siddity's site. There are several excellent BW empowerment blogs linked to that blog.

Grata said...

"And by my estimation, Dr. Gates is doing just fine. The charges were dropped, this incident will give him "street cred" among the his students and with white liberals. The whole world now knows of his friendship with the president, so that is more social currency for him. "


tbt,
LOL! you are back. Street Cred?! Really. So from what cred was he speaking from before. If he is just getting his cred now it shows that he has been a phony all along exploiting the misery of Black people to enrich himself.

"Oh and he still has his home, his job, and his wife."

Obviously you haven't seen the mug shots. And so what if he still has his wife? Oh I forget she is White so that means everything to you right?! LOL! That magically restores his humanity that was stripped of him that day.

Like it or not an incident like that rapes one of their humanity even if its for moment. However much money you make or color of spouse you have the mark is made. Street cred my foot. I bet you are one of those who would be proud of having been to jail. LOL!
I sometimes underestimate your twistedness.