2009-08-02
Black Men Are Not A Factor In All IR Relationships Between Black Women & White Men
In this video the question is asked "There aren't any brothers out there?" and the comment is made "It can't beTHAT bad" in reference to seeing black women with white men. Maybe there are some wonderful black men out there, I think they are, but I don't think my dating white man was due to the lack of good black men in the world, but rather because I like white men. Why would black men factor into my relationship with a white man?
It is also said that "black women desire black men", that could very well be the case, but there are some black women out there who are just looking for a good man. A white man, black man, asian man, hispanic man, and everything in between kind of man. Good men regardless of race are hard to find, so why limit yourself?
One thing I hear a lot from black men who share this view is "Is a sister trying to make a black man jealous or feel bad about themselves?" That isn't my goal, but I find it odd that black men never ever ask this of other black men who berate and insult black women as a whole who are willing to date non black women. Remember black men are in greater numbers dating non black women than black women are dating non black men. Then you have those who exclusively date only non black women or black women who have "good hair", "light skin", or "bright eyes", so "regular" black women are excluded. Our beauty isn't appreciated within our own community, so why should we stay within it to wait around for black man who isn't into us?
Then we get to the stereotypes that black women are gold diggers just out for a man's money. I find this stereotype the worst, as usually when you see black men with non black women, they typically don't marry up, they marry down, meaning that maybe, just maybe, their non black women might be gold diggers too. "There are plenty of good black men for you. You think by dating this white guy you're going to some how climb up the economic ladder? Then come to find out, when you date this white dude that he's just like everybody else." I married my husband because he wasn't like everyone else. He became my best friend, we had a lot of shared goals, and he was just in general a really great guy. Black women are known for being self sufficient out of necessity, why would we be the gold diggers, we aren't expected to live off a man, because according to some black men, most black women aren't worthy of having any man, much less one that takes care of them financially.
I also find it telling that this guy questions the motives of black women:
"I question your motive. I believe that some of you sisters are just trying to upset a man, upset a brother by dating these white guys"
Why have black men not questioned the other motives of black men who on a daily basis insult, degrade, and stereotype black women in order to justify their dating preferences for non black women? Are black men dating non black women because they are trying to make black women jealous and upset? It sometimes seems that way, since so many want to talk about how horrible black women are, and how masculine we are, or ugly, fat, loud, full of attitude, or whatever other stereotype can be dished out towards black women as a whole.
I think we need to get out of the mindset we belong to one another, and we need to quit thinking that white men are somehow some "last resort" option for black women, especially when some black men are under the impression that non black women are the end all and be all of all things good, and black women are the lowest of the low. Sometimes black women actually like white men, and some of us actually prefer them. It isn't about money or achieving some social status, but actually liking a man, be it black, white, or any other race.
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You know what, I'm sick of people taking stereotypical simplistic views to interracial dating. I'm glad that you put this out here. And especially included the question: why limit yourself? Some of the tired assumptions are just that: tired.
Black men are narcissistic as hell. My love for white men has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with black men. White men are my strong preference. Very strong. I make no apologies for that, I do not feel the need to explain why because it is what it is. I have never dated a black male and I never will. I'm just not attracted to them like that. I resent videos like this because they never ask the same questions of their brothers. The anti-bw propaganda campaign these boys engage in is beyond reprehensible. People like this fool are dangerous because his poisonous message is more insidious. He's trying to innocently ask questions and then basically calls us golddiggers? WTH?
Once again, when they start asking their bro-thah's the same questions, maybe they can be taken seriously. Until then, this kinda of mess is on ignore for me.
this guy is over estimating his importance if he thinks black women date non black men just to get his attention, he needs to get over himself, the world does not revolve around him
I agree with your last sentences. I like white men not because of some hang ups with black men, I just happen to be more attracted to them. It's been that way since middle school actually. I will be so honest, I don't understand the black man's mindset about black women dating interracially.
Like Sweetsoul, I haven't ever dated a black man and my attraction to white men is strong, however, I would date other men as well.
this made me laugh.. He is such a narcissistic man.. talking about bw going out with wm to make bm jealous. I laugh and laugh and I really can't understand why this is really hurting this man. Plus, he's saying that he's not racist. He is!!
His message is really poisonous! I'm so thankful that I grew up in the Caribbean and never had to really listen to crap like this. Too much division when it comes to race. We all have red blood flowing through our veins. We all came from the same place.
He was so disrespectfil to bw... talking about bw's attitude. His wife needs to educate him.
Love is love... whatever the shade, religion or culture. Love is Love. I never go for a guy because of his looks.. I go for deeper qualities.. his mind, his compassion, his creativity, how he treats people and his outlook in life.
I've dated nearly all race (black, white, indian and now Turkish). I've met a guy who completes me and we've been together 2 and half years and never once have I had drama and never once have I been disrespected. Love is Love and where ever you find love, Go. Life is too short.
Before a developed my beef with Black men, I already had a strong attraction for White men. The only Black men I would consider are those from my own culture. I don't see Western Black men at all. I don't care how good one looks, they just don't do it for me.
To think that BW date White men to annoy Black men is simply silly. First of all Black WOmen are not puruing these men, Its the men, who are few, that approach them. And given our 'low desireability', you go with the ones that look at you as a woman like any other.
And yes, it is that bad. Black men in general by their own admittance (Spike Lee) prefer lighter to White women. So what happens if you don't fit that category, wait around until some sympathetic Black man approaches you?
This guy is something else. When he first appeared on YT he made a video about why bw are dating outside their race and why he understood. Then he closed that account and made a new one w/ him wearing these goofy looking glasses acting like a nerd and doing a whole dedication vids to IR dating between bw/wm trying to convince bm that bw really do desire bm, they never desired wm and it's all threats that bw are making. Then he shuts down those vids and puts up this one. This guy is all over place, but it sure is funny watching him scratch his head about this when he is infact married to a black woman.
This guy has got it all wrong. He wants to assume that it's about black men. Just like SweetSoulSister, I'm not attracted to black men (for the most part) which also has nothing to do with black men and more with me and how I grew up. I grew up in the suburbs and I was a NERD. There were maybe four other black children in my grade. I saw mostly non-black faces and I became attracted to a mindset rather than race. I like nerdy, geeky guys and I am unapologetic for that. It's hard enough to find the elusive nerd out in the wild much less a black one. I am not going to change who I am or settle for something I'm not attracted to just to be with a black man.
This fool wants to make it seem like I have some agenda for dating men of different races/ethnicities. Thinking that I'm doing this because I have been hurt by black men is erroneous and stupid.
As for gold digging, I should note how many times my ex boyfriends have paid my rent or my car note. None. Anything a man can do for me, I can do for myself and I'm quite happy with that. I don't need anyone to shower me with expensive gifts either. The only precious gift I want from any man I find in the future is love.
Also he brings up the idea that black women don't show attitude to white men. That's not true either. I show my attitude to generally anyone who doesn't know how to treat me which means I get an attitude with a lot of people, not just black men. What can I say? Asshattery is my kryptonite.
I laugh at people like him these days because on the few dates I've been out on, everyone who has been visibly having conniptions were all black people who looked at me like WTF are you doing? I smiled and waved for good measure.
I'm not a black man's property by virtue of being black. I belong to myself and I can open my heart to whomever I like.
Rippa, SweetSoulSister, thelady,satonearth,Lion-ess,and Grata,
You have excellently and thoroughly articulated how I feel about my attraction to WM and the IRRELEVANCE of BM in that regard.
I find the chronic ARROGANCE and IGNORANCE of MANY of these DBR BM DISGUSTING and OFFENSIVE. They have the nerve to go out of their way to TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY OF BW when they have so MANY OBVIOUS FAULTS of their OWN that they SHOULD be dealing with.
Since BW are INDEPENDENT, INDIVIDUALS NO ONE, especially BM, has the right to tell us WHO we can love, date, or marry.
Siditty, I never liked that guy in the first place. He's fairly new to youtube and it's no surprise to me that he immediately jumps to the topic of BW dating IR (especially WM). In the past he made a video, discouraging Asian men from dating Black women and vice versa and I had to let him know that he CANNOT dictate who other people shall/shall not date! What a control freak wanna-be.
He can tell whatever he likes on his video to make himself and other black men who share his views (that all BW desire BM) feel better. In fact, I've never desired or sought out BM for dating, therefore never dated one. I've always dated and prefer to date WM and in all honesty, my dating habits have NOTHING to do with BM. I've also never dated WM with the intention of making BM jealous. It's quite the opposite, with some BM getting jealous and acting stupid at the sight of me with a WM. I think it's necessary to seperate black men from black BOYS in this regard. Real black MEN do NOT act insecure over what race of men completely strange/unknown BW are with.
I can't get mad at this guy because too many black women make excuses as to why they are with nonblack men. There are also too many who talk about how bad black men are instead of how appealing nonblack men are. Those who are genuinely attracted to nonblack men should not engage in either. I think that more bw who are genuinely attracted should become more vocal.
As for me, my preference for nonblacks began when I first went to an integrated middle/HS. My friends were head over heals for various white pinups and I began to see that these guys were very attractive. Not to mention, the school had a high Cuban population and I fell in love with the look possessed by many of the boys (light sometimes creamy skin and brown or black hair--most of them were clearly of Euro Spanish heritage). I guess you can say nonblack men have been my preference since my early teens.
There could be tons of good, professional bm available and I would still be more attracted to the latin, white, or happas guy. However, you will never hear me say that bm are ugly because no one is ugly.
So this guy can rest assured that no ill will causes me to avoid bm... IR's are simply more exciting to me.
It's obvious that the views of the video author are one-sided, and not well rounded. Siddity handled the rebuttal.
YET, the comments to this piece have disturbed me greatly, and I too am in an interracial relationship. Just as I am disturbed when black men state reasons for why they exclusively do NOT date black women, usually because we look to black etc... it has been equally disturbing for me to read these comments from my fellow black women and read that you're not attracted to black men, won't date a black man, for whatever reason(s).
I don't understand, be it black man or black woman, how you could not be attracted to another black person, when you are black, and so are your parents and family. You come from black, don't knock it.
The idea of a eurocentric beauty ideal is often bandied about on blogs, as why black men may be more apt to date non-black women (or lighter versions), maybe so too black women have internalized this notion. And as for the "attitude," or "ignorance" some black men exhibit, I've encountered the same within ALL races of men. Think about it.
A man is a man is a man. If he's attractive, intelligent, and treats you with respect, take that man for the individual.
I too find it disturbing that some black women are not attracted to black men at all.
The beauty is beauty... whichever shade of colour.
I remember this white guy who only dated black women and I found that so disturbing...
It's the same if black women state that they only date white men.
My parents are black Caribbean and something will be totally wrong with me if I can't find my own race attractive.
Why limit your self to a particular race. There are some decent and genuine black men out there and I would never talk them down. My father is a decent black man who I look up to in every way.
it has been equally disturbing for me to read these comments from my fellow black women and read that you're not attracted to black men, won't date a black man, for whatever reason(s).
I don't understand, be it black man or black woman, how you could not be attracted to another black person, when you are black, and so are your parents and family. You come from black, don't knock it.
----
Yeah, I come from women too, but I'm not trying to get with them either. No one has to include anyone in the group who they'll date because of race or because you say they should. So long as it's between consenting adults, people have just as much right to EXCLUDE as they do to include -- without explanation to anyone -- who they will date/marry regardless as to whether you like it or not.
Why do BM or this idoti think its ALL ABOUT THEM? Why can't we be attracted to Non-BM because WE'RE JUST ATTRACTED TO NON=BM? This idoit thinks life revolves around him. Give me a break. BW have minds. We can think for ourself. Statistics show more BW have college degrees then BM yet in his eyes BW can't do anything (even be attracted to Non-BM) without the involvement of the BM. Totally insane.
I notice that it is almost always black women who declare that people should be attracted to all races. This is especially laughable when they are in IR's themselves. I believe this stems from the fact that some bw feel so rejected by men that any kind of romantic race preference is traumatizing for them. The fact is, no one has to be attracted to bw just like we aren't required to be attracted to all races. To claim that we must is like telling a hetero or homo that they are wrong for not wanting both sexes. Also, the family argument simply does not work. No one should be sexually attracted to members of their own family so there's no logical reason to bring them up when it comes to sexual attraction. People have sincere reasons for avoiding IR just as they have for embracing them. I will go as far as saying that dating, marriage, and adoption are the only scenarios where racial preferences are acceptable. We are the only ones who will live with our decisions so we should make them as we see fit.
Now I will say that I do not understand people who claim that personality characteristics are found among certain races but their decisions are still their decisions. I also wish that IR bloggers would address some of the negative aspects of IR dating and marriage.
Whatever the case, like who you want. If you are secure with yourself, the decisions of others won't bother/disturb you.
Lormarie,
"I notice that it is almost always black women who declare that people should be attracted to all races."
Exactly. There is always harsh judgement against BW that prefer to date non Black. We are not that certain what causes sexual attraction. It is entirely possible that a BW may not be sexually attracted to BM, I know I have a hard time.
The mentality that Black Women desire only Black men is laughable really.
Like I said, the only Black men I would ever consider going out with are those of my immediate culture. And that would be simply for cultural reasons. The Black Male in the West is simply not attractive to me. And alot of it may have to do with my perception of the Western Black male and not necessarily their looks. Attraction is also highly mental.
Women want those men they can look up to and can protect them or atleast show the effort.
The Black Male in America for a Black Woman like me falls short on all accounts.Why would I be attracted to such a man?
I don't see ANYONE telling NON-BW who they're "allowed" to love, date, marry, or who is "appropriate" for them to be attracted to. NON-BW have the FREEDOM to be in relationships with WHOEVER they choose.
Like women of ANY RACE, BW also are FREE to love, date, marry and PREFER/not PREFER WHOEVER they want without having to explain themselves to ANYONE or listen to other people's IGNORANT, IRRELEVANT, JUDGEMENTS.
I get that everyone has their preferences and that is fine, and I have no problem allowing to each their own. However, what I find confusing is when black women who admittedly have a much stronger or exclusive preference for white and possibly other nonblack men harp on the "colorist and brainwashed" reasons for black men to date lighter-skinned bw or nonblack women.
In this post colorism against medium/dark-skinned black women was given as a reason for looking beyond black men to white men. If your preference was for white men all along, what is the relevance? Men you don't want don't want you either so what's the problem?
And why is it wrong and evidence of self-hatred for a black man to prize light skin/eyes and straight hair the same way you do but not for you? This what confuses me. Either it's pathological for neither bw or bm or it's pathological for both. I would really like a logical explanation for why some seem to be resentful when bm, whom they could not be less interested in having relationships with, do not cherish and laud the same physical attributes that they themselves openly find less attractive/unattractive.
I asked the same thing over on C1's blog a long time ago when some black women were saying how boring they found brown eyes and brown skin but no one ever had an answer.
I'm not sure why people find it so disturbing for black women to say that they aren't attracted to black men. I'm not sure if anyone knows how painful it is to try to like someone you're not attracted to, but it is more difficult than you would imagine. I wanted to want black men because I felt it would be easier. I still feel like it would be easier sometimes, but I can't spend my life worrying about what I can't change.
Wow.
I did not realize that choosing to date a man that is interested in me and treats me well was the product of a twenty some odd year conspiracy to upset a man that I do not know and others I have never met.
I also don't understand why it's his business if he's married (and happily at that)? If white men "are human just like everybody else," why is he tripping?
If I didn't know any better, I'd say it sounds like he's no longer on the market and thinking he's missing out. The combination of factors he outlines--non-black men, the possibility that said men are not "obviously" attractive (wealthy, cut, etc.), and the women being beautiful--seems to add insult to injury on his part.
Does it not matter if they only "take" the ones he doesn't find attractive? I guess "I question [his] motive": what does he have to gain from any of this?
And what, exactly, does the "black men have fucked up" brush he's painting all black men with have to do with who I date? That (dogging a whole group) is wrong in and of itself. If I've never dated a black man, then who I've dated can't be influenced by something "they" did to me. I don't hate them. I don't avoid them. It's just never happened.
Is there something I'm missing? Do I not have enough life experience to understand this logic?
blame those bitter BW bloggers who bash black men and then herald the greatness of non black men. They are bitter getting older and now are trying to preach the virtues of interracial dating after years of being used and abused by BM. they themselves probably aren't in a IR or a relationship period. They make it bad for the BW who are genuinely in love with a non black man when they go on those anti BM tirades. They are just as depressed as the BW bashers
Oh my goodness, where do a sistah start?
The idiot in that you tube video has some serious issues and I hope his wife sees that video and consider reassessing her options. He should not be allowed to procreate.
My husband flips out when he sees a sistah w/a white guy ON T.V.! He then draws his conculsions that there are more black women dating white men than the other way around. Yeah, he don't go out much, and when he do and I prove my point, it's all a coincidence.
This one of the reasons why I'm leaving his ass in addtion to the other sterotypical reasons such as:
Because I'm an electrician I'm butchy.
I gained weight(145 to 185 5'7" after 2 kids & diabetes), & never mind so did he by a wider margin, I'm too fat to have sex with.
I was born in the south therefore, I'm too loud compared to his ghettofied cousins, brothers & sisters.
Yeah I pretty much got in & stuck it out for the kids.
I found it amazing when I told my black male friends & soon-to-be-ex I have dated white guys in the past, they literally flipped out. How dare you, what brothas aint good enough, don't you know the history between you two? LOL
But they would graphiclly tell me about their experiences with white women like it was their obligation to have that experience and they really couldn't understand why in the hell I was offened on ALL FRONTS!
It's no wonder why we as a people of African descent can never get over this race problem we are having in America, because we won't get over our own internalized racism, classism, & sexism of each other. If anybody listen to the Doug Banks Show, could some inform them of this when they have their sterotypical topics of the day?
I told my kids that there is no shortage of men or women. You aren't obligated to no one but yourselves & each other, up to a point. I also told them if you don't love & respect yourself, don't expect from no one else.
That's why I'm a humanist.
Thank you for letting me rant. It seriously touched a nerve & it was something that needed to be said.
I gained weight(145 to 185 5'7" after 2 kids & diabetes)
I'm diabetic also and I never heard of diabetes causing weight gain; the opposite is closer to reality -- excess weight often brings about Type 2 diabetes.
Anonymous said...
I'm diabetic also and I never heard of diabetes causing weight gain; the opposite is closer to reality -- excess weight often brings about Type 2 diabetes.
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Had gestational diabetes while preggo & now borderline diabetic due to the weight gain after the kids.
I asked the same thing over on C1's blog a long time ago when some black women were saying how boring they found brown eyes and brown skin but no one ever had an answer.--yommamasad
I think your "assumptions" are correct. Any woman who expresses a race preference should not complain when bm (or any other man)prefer light or white. We can't have it both ways.
I get that everyone has their preferences and that is fine, and I have no problem allowing to each their own. However, what I find confusing is when black women who admittedly have a much stronger or exclusive preference for white and possibly other nonblack men harp on the "colorist and brainwashed" reasons for black men to date lighter-skinned bw or nonblack women.
In this post colorism against medium/dark-skinned black women was given as a reason for looking beyond black men to white men. If your preference was for white men all along, what is the relevance? Men you don't want don't want you either so what's the problem?
And why is it wrong and evidence of self-hatred for a black man to prize light skin/eyes and straight hair the same way you do but not for you? This what confuses me. Either it's pathological for neither bw or bm or it's pathological for both. I would really like a logical explanation for why some seem to be resentful when bm, whom they could not be less interested in having relationships with, do not cherish and laud the same physical attributes that they themselves openly find less attractive/unattractive.
I asked the same thing over on C1's blog a long time ago when some black women were saying how boring they found brown eyes and brown skin but no one ever had an answer.
************************
This is an excellent synopsis of a rather insidious phenomena which is why I can see why bitter black men are always booted off IR blogs when they ask this very same question. Or Black women are called mammies for daring to ask that question. Some Black women cry about White men not finding them attractive even though they are intensely attracted to these men and will denigrate or say that they are not attracted to Black men for a number of reasons—being middle class, having only white friends--- just doesn’t make that much sense. I grew up around Whites and went to majority schools but I don’t see them as any more remarkable then Black men. And I know many whites that grew up around Blacks but that certainly didn’t intensify their attraction to Black women. Yet the same scenario, of I grew up around White people so that is what I am attracted to—really doesn’t ring true.
I am all for Black women empowering themselves, but when you discriminate in the same manner that Black men discriminate against their own women, then they are only showcasing their own blatant hypocrisy.
Who cares what this Black man thinks? Black women don't have to answer to anyone for who they date or marry.
I hope that Black women continue to connect with good men - regardless of race or nationality.
Black men have made it clear that they have no problem crossing the color line and physically/verbally attacking Black women - especially the darker-skinned variety of Black women. Black women have no reason to explain their motives to Black men - just do what's best for you.
Yet the same scenario, of I grew up around White people so that is what I am attracted to—really doesn’t ring true.
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I see this used a lot by BW to explain their attraction to WM. It never rang true to me either.
I grew up in a black neighborhood and only had limited contact with non-blacks; yet I've never felt a sexual attraction to black men. My attraction is to white and Middle Eastern men. I don't, however, limit myself to these men only. I am open to dating decent and stable men of any ethnic background, including AA.
"I am all for Black women empowering themselves, but when you discriminate in the same manner that Black men discriminate against their own women, then they are only showcasing their own blatant hypocrisy."
Yes, on the one hand a couple of the regulars here have made it clear that they think it's okay if a black woman has a preference for white men but wrong for black men to prefer light, bright or white women. Now, that's hypocrisy.
On the other hand, you'll never see ME complaining about black men's choice in women, as it's really no skin off my ass one way or the other who they date. That's NOT hypocrisy.
YanMomma,
I think you asked an excellent question, and I would love to hear someone give a well-reasoned answer to it. It seems like some people have a tendency to come up with "acceptable" justifications for their preferences while denigrating others for essentially the same thing.
Then there's the whole issue of preference. When someone I meet finds out I date White guys, they usually assume that I have a preference for WM and date them exclusively. That's not true--it took me awhile to realize that my preference is for guys with strong features (rectangular faces, strong jaws, etc.) and that's not particular to any one race. However, it seems like people like to force me into either the "dates Black men" camp or the "dates White men" camp. In the dating world, do all IR daters have to be exclusively IR daters? (For the record, I feel like this happens with others too; how often do you hear about a Black man dating "only White girls" as opposed to a Black man who dates Black and White women?)
I think it's always wrong to justify your preference for one group by putting down another, but it's also unfair to say that Black men have been brainwashed by slavery practices, "White is right," etc., and then suggest that you have somehow overcome those circumstances and your motives are pure. Either everyone is affected by colorism or no one is--it's contradictory to label colorism as this grand societal influence when referring to others but ignore its effect when referring to oneself.
I married a White man because I loved him. Truth be told "good brothers" or not. With very few exceptions, I would not have married a Black man. Especially one that butchers the English language like this dude. I do not desire Black men, and some Black men need to get over that. It's not about YOU, it's about life. Period.
Really, the constant bitching from darker-skinned BW about BM not wanting them is just embarrasing, and is not going to shame most of those BM into thinking dark and/or Negroid women are beautiful, anyway. Get it through your heads: They DON'T have to want you...it's as simple as that! Just go and find someone who does.
@ the video:The attitude of this type of black man is astounding! Black women genuinely dating non-black men has nothing to do with black men. Aren't they aware that the world does not revolve around them? That the lives of Black women do not revolve around them?
@Yanmommasaid:
Good question. I think it's be hard to answer since you cant really be in a person's head and can only really examine their actions. As for the double standard, I think ego plays that biggest part in it. Additionally, it may be the idea that even though they may not be interested in him another good black woman may be a perfect match.
"In this post colorism against medium/dark-skinned black women was given as a reason for looking beyond black men to white men. If your preference was for white men all along, what is the relevance? Men you don't want don't want you either so what's the problem?"
Just because some black women are looking beyond black women, it doesn't mean that they had a pre-existing preference toward white/non-black men. It is not hypocritical if the woman didn't have pre-existing, exclusively non-black preference and is open to dating a good man regardless of race. Even if the woman had general or slight preference, to me, it's still not hypocritical; and vice versa.
Even though a Black person has preferences that blacks or a type of black person may not fit into, it doesn't mean that that person cannot find beauty in those who do not fit into their preference. Me, for example, I find deep, dark skin (like, turn off the light and where'd you go, dark), full lips, high cheek bones, black curly hair, and dark brown eyes stunning. That is my preference and standard of beauty, but, it doesn't mean that I don't find people who don't fit that preferences attractive. I love's me some Wentworth Miller, Alexander Skarsgard, Sam Trammell, Oguri Shun, and Johnny Depp; I could stare at them all day, lol. They are no where near my preference, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're hot.
One of the reasons that BW who are not necessarily attracted to BM have a problem with them dating out maybe because the same Black men go to great lenghts to justify their reasons for doing so. The main reason always comes down to the Black Woman and her attiude. So in essence they trash the Black Woman as the date out. Its not enough for them to reject their women, they have to make their woman they don't want even more unattractive to everyone else. ANd encourage everyone else to abuse here. Which makes you wonder if they are not truly motivated by self hatred.
The reason I as an African woman would freely date out and have a problem with my own men doing so is simply because there are serious social structural consequences when the men of my group marry out. It breaks down the community. The children become alienated and froeign to the community. As a female, I don't have the privilage of carrying the family's lineage and I am therefore free to marry almost anyone. Its the men that put these rules into place and don't wish to see them changed.
We are now seeing a generation of men that married out and its pure confusion. Many of them are struggling to assert their cultural identity but since their wives are "foreign" its quite difficult for them to pass on what they don't know to their children. So in the end they are further alienated from the core community.
American society is different. But if you look closely there are groups of people that follow this rule. The girls can go but the men have to stay. Its only in Black America that this is the reverse.
As for colorism. Again, people want to call this preference but I see it as discrimination on the part of men.
By the way I knew many African boys growing up who showed a preference for lighter skin. The irony is that almost all of them married dark skinned women. At some point one has to grow out of that bias. In America, it is taken to the extreme with Dark skinned women being abused for their skin tone misrepresented in the Media.
Yes, I have a problem with that. What is shocking to me is the real denial in the BC and refusal to accept this as basic discrimination. In otherwords the pro light skin crowd can continue denying its existance and continue to make the darker ones seem bitter and angry.
And guess what, its working.
Isn't it funny how hard it is to acknowledge injustice when such injustice is to your own benefit? Now you know how whites feel.
I am so dissappointed that this problem of colorism is so hushed in the BC yet IMO today its deadlier than racism.
"However, what I find confusing is when black women who admittedly have a much stronger or exclusive preference for white and possibly other nonblack men harp on the "colorist and brainwashed" reasons for black men to date lighter-skinned bw or nonblack women."
People harp on the "colorist and brainwahsed" reasons because like I said before, Black men make it obvious why they go for these women, they publically state their color preferences forgetting that their own children may turn out dark skinned. Now something is wrong with that.
There are many African men I know now who married light skinned women and I now see that they may have been color struck, but you would never know it. Its just something they would never confess out loud. American Black men on the other hand will rub it in the face of dark skinned women. Again, Something is wrong with that.
My attraction to WM has little to do with looks. If it were for looks I would never date them. Its more temperement. There are very few that I am just physically attracted to. Even all these celeb poster boys in the IR world, none of them does it for me. I am not sure how to describe it but its a quality I get from White Americans, some Europeans and Some Africans. I haven't seen it in Asians or Latin Americans.
This temperement can be be found among some African tribes in my region. And since I am not there, WM are the next best thing. And not all WM have it. I doubt one could find it in the South.
I have seen one American BM with it. I even never spoke to him. But I bumped into him in the Cafeteria and he had a strong sense of presence and I knew instantly he had it. Nigerian men too tend to have it.
Like I said attraction is highly mental and especially in this society people should be free to date whoever they please but that does not absolve one from some responsibility to their commuity. A Black man marrying a White woman does not take away his responsibility to his community especially if he needs the same community to fight his for his cause. Women by nature always nurture their communities so the same message does not apply to them.
A person marrying or dating out does not give them the license to denigrate of the opposite sex.
I will admit, I am highly critical of the Black Male in America and probably will continue to be so, just look around and anyone will understand why. But I wouldn't go to the level these Black men go to debase Black women's sexuality and desireability. My criticism is based on what is clearly there. Their lack of support of the Black Woman and Child.
To equal the Black Man's public abuse of the Black Woman, the BW would have to strip down his masculinity verbally while appraising that of the white male.
And that is very easy to do. One would have to show what the WM has to offer in terms of security, care and comfort while all you get from the Black male is Baby mama drama. All stereotypical, but if this was carried out long enough, the Black Male would be destroyed pretty fast.
Who would be left to feel sorry for the BM? He would be locked up 5times faster than he is now.
But BW have been taking this abuse all along.
Women dating IR and still don't like BM doing same are simply reacting to the "primitive" instinct of community preservation. Almost all groups have it. If one did a survey, you would find that White women dating BM would have the same feeling towards tehir men dating out. Any self respecting society wishes to preserve its self and this can only be done by keeping the men close to home which means they marry natives.
That is why in Europe you now find Nigerian Men especially trying to have it both ways. In attempting to advance their careers, they will marry White Women. Then they will head back to Africa and marry and African woman. The White woman never knows this until many years down the line just in time for a divorce.
I know of 2 men back home that did the same thing. Is it right? NO! But these men understand the need for community preservation and their role in it.
"Really, the constant bitching from darker-skinned BW about BM not wanting them is just embarrasing, and is not going to shame most of those BM into thinking dark and/or Negroid women are beautiful, anyway. Get it through your heads: They DON'T have to want you...it's as simple as that! Just go and find someone who does."
I love those parallels with racism.
Don't white people discriminate against Blacks based on their distinctive appearance?
Blacks should get over it and accept that Whites will never accept them, go find their own country where they can be comfortable amongst themselves?
Hmmmm interesting isn't it? Next time you get wrongfully arrested, don't assume its your skin color you shouldn't be around white people in the first place.
Don't white people discriminate against Blacks based on their distinctive appearance?
Blacks should get over it and accept that Whites will never accept them, go find their own country where they can be comfortable amongst themselves?
Hmmmm interesting isn't it? Next time you get wrongfully arrested, don't assume its your skin color you shouldn't be around white people in the first place.
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We are speaking of intimate/romantic relationships. People should have the right to choose who they will or will not share their bodies and personal space with, without having to explain it to you. If you disagree then go ahead and get with all those Western BM who you say you have no attraction for. After all, according to your analogy, you have no right to exclude them. Hypocrite.
Hmmmm interesting isn't it? Next time you get wrongfully arrested, don't assume its your skin color you shouldn't be around white people in the first place.
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Yeah, I keep all that in mind the next time I'm next time I'm wrongfully arrested....
And you can keep in mind the next time youre arrested that you can be around black men, whites or anyone else all you want AND they still don't have to desire you.
And it really is too late to try to get grown men to change a deeply neurotic need to acquire and be seen with acceptable, fashionable, trendy, coveted, etc. thngs and people. Black men often have more of a need to acquire highly sought after and conspicuous "objects" (sadly enough, this often includes women) because they feel these "things" prove they have worth.
Black mothers need to raise their children up to find beauty and desirabilty in dark skin and African features -- maybe then you won't have a generation of young women banging their heads against a brick wall because the men they want don't want them.
All that moaning and groaning that's going on now isn't changing anything.
"We are speaking of intimate/romantic relationships. People should have the right to choose who they will or will not share their bodies and personal space with, without having to explain it to you."
It has been argued that one of the underlying driving factors of the Civil Rights movement was the Black Male's need to sleep with the White women. White women before that weren't exactly running in droves to the Black Men.(Though you would like to believe that was the case).
But Black men argued and continue to argue their way into bedding them. So what is wrong with Black women demanding that they get bedded by the men that look like them? Is this what we have come to now, to convince Black men to desire their own women. really?
Judging by your tone, you sound disgusted by the idea confirming your own self hatred.
Is it so much for Black women to demand that their own men desire them(Excluding me ofcourse) or atleast not trash their image publically?
And my lack of desireablity for the Western Black Male again is not physical, its my perception of them. Men who treat their women the way present day Black Western men do are not worthy to me.
"And you can keep in mind the next time youre arrested that you can be around black men, whites or anyone else all you want AND they still don't have to desire you."
LOL! For the record. I have no problem attracting either group.
Focus, we are talking about a societal problem. As an individual I really don't have much to complain about. I know its hard for you to grasp that some people can sympathize with an issue that does not have an immediate impact on them. Incase you hadn't noticed the owner of this blog is happily married but she still addresses issues affecting Single Black women. Why do you think that is?
Many of us are going to raise children in this world and we don't like the way it looks. We want a better environment for our children. Yes its that simple.
"Black mothers need to raise their children up to find beauty and desirabilty in dark skin and African features -- maybe then you won't have a generation of young women banging their heads against a brick wall because the men they want don't want them."
WOW! So it is the Black Woman's responsibility to bear the children, take care of them herself and give them the confidence they need to face the world? Where is the Black male in all this? So if your are a Black woman and you have African looking children its up to you to raise your children with all the confidence they need to face the world? I mean WOW! Where does society's responsibility come in?
This is one hell of a battle that will most likely be lost by all those dark skinned African looking women. In essence these women are really totally on their own.
Thanks for the insight.
My comments are specifically geared towards the situation of American black women who seem to have, or who have overtly professed an inborn markedly higher or sole preference for white men.In that scenario, I don't see what the preference of some black men for non-black or lighter-skinned black women has to do with it, if indeed "black men are not a factor". They could be singing the praises of dark skin and natural hair from on high and it would have made no difference for whom these women wanted to date.
Pulling it into conversations about why one dates out does lend creedence to the popular theory that bw date out just b/c they are "mad at the brothers". I'm with Laramona- bw do not need to give any justification for who they are dating. If anyone ever again asks me why I date out, I'll say "why not? Why shouldn't I?" instead of buying into the thought that my choices need to be defended. "My boyfriend and I are happy and in love. Why shouldn't we be together?"
Certainly I was not asking anyone to justify or defend their dating preferences. I was asking for an explanation of what appeared to be a double standard. I can't condone preferring another race/"discriminating against your own race" as liberating and open-minded for black women but as a manifestation of self-hatred and traitorism when done by black men. It's all the same to me.
I did neglect to mention the tendency of many black men to go out of their way to trash black women in any medium they can find.
I find that behavior despicable and I absolutely do not believe in turning the other cheek. After bearing the brunt of such attacks for so long, most bw realize you only sound like a damn fool when tearing down the same physical attributes you yourself possess, so we attack the behaviors and attitudes of bm instead. There is certainly plenty to be said about that, and it should be said, but perhaps not in the context of why you are in or drawn to IR relationships, if that is NOT what "drove" you to IR date.
Many of these defamers still date/marry black women and doubtless not every black man who dates out engages in this behavior. However, it's not a universal behavior among all black men so I think it's more than a stretch to declare it pathology every time you see a black man with a white or light-skinned black woman...unless you want to see it that way for black women also. Is wanting to escape blackness really the only reason someone could want to be with a light-skinned black person or nonblack person?
I was talking to my boyfriend, yes, he is white, about how black folks often need to put down the opposite sex members of their race when they date out, and he said perhaps it is because of guilt. I can see that. Perhaps for SOME people, and I am not saying this applies to anyone here, deep down inside they suspect self-hatred so in order to avoid that feeling they vociferously make the case that the same race people they do not want to date are defective and unworthy of romantic attention.
Will it ever get through these fools' thick skulls that just because someone's the same race as you, doesn't mean you're entitled to them? Good grief.
-Black men are narcissistic as hell
-the chronic ARROGANCE and IGNORANCE of MANY of these DBR BM DISGUSTING and OFFENSIVE.
-The Black Male in America for a Black Woman like me falls short on all accounts.Why would I be attracted to such a man?
- I do not desire Black men, and some Black men need to get over that.
Interesting from a group of people who claim that Black men had no influence on their decision to date white men.
*****Yanmomma******
Excellent job pointing out the glaring Hypocrisy of SOME of these Black women.
I never had any issues by black men who's sister/daughter I have dated. In fact I have mostly been met by "Are you hungry?"
There is NO "hypocrisy" in NOT having a preference for BM. That's the MAIN POINT of this post.
La -
If you didn't care about Black men. You would call them "DBR". (Cult follower).
The opinion of Black men shouldn't matter, any more than the opinion of Asian men to you. Right? Because Black men were no factor in your decision to date white.
So why the hatred? Why the animosity?
I have never said that Black women couldn't and don't have a preference for white men or whatever race of man.
BLACK WOMEN DATING OUT ARE NO BETTER OR WORSE THAN BLACK MEN DATING OUT.
When will you hypocrites get them message.
btw. I am engaged to a dark skinned black woman. I just don't like the hypocrisy.
Again, this post doesn't have ANYTHING to do with BW who criticize BM's relationship preferences.
The fact that CERTAIN BM feel the need to come to this blog and judge BW'S relationship preferences is proof enough of their ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE, and STUPIDITY.
BW don't need PERMISSION/APPROVAL from ANYONE (LEAST OF ALL BM) to decide who we prefer to love, date, or marry.
BM ARE NOT the CENTER of a BW's universe and WE DON'T NEED YOUR INPUT IN ANY PART OF OUR LIVES.
If saying that seems "HATEFUL" to CERTAIN BM, they can learn to DEAL WITH IT and MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS.
Well, I guess I have to explain why I haven't dated a black man. I haven't dated one because the ones that come up to me aren't worth dating aka the thug looking ones and the older men that are 20 years my senior, that's not my thing. I like a man who can hold a meaningful conversation. I like nerdy looking men because that's what I am. I did say I would date other men, but I have a stronger attraction for white men. I didn't say I ONLY have an attraction for white men.
"BM ARE NOT the CENTER of a BW's universe and WE DON'T NEED YOUR INPUT IN ANY PART OF OUR LIVES."
I meant to say,
BM ARE NOT the CENTER of a BW's universe and we don't NEED ANTI-BW BM'S INPUT in ANY PART of OUR LIVES.
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