2009-08-11

Women Do Not Exist For the Sole Purpose of Appeasing Men







It seems that as America pop culture evolves, the more it devolves. We have certain aspects of hip hop culture that is misogynistic and very volatile towards women. We have standards of beauty that all women are judged by. We have those who feel that women are here for the purpose of sexually harassing, and assume that women should enjoy it, or otherwise face consequences.

We have all met the men who feel they need to have a certain kind of woman. Their woman must be in shape, be at least a 8 on a scale of 10, and have a body if other men will drool over. The guy with these requirements is unemployed, maybe a 5, and the only exercise he gets is using his fingers on his game controller.

Those men are annoying, but not threatening. You then have the men who enjoy looking at the female body. They appreciate all shapes and sizes and stare down women all day long. It's creepy, it's a bit strange, but you just keep your guard up and move on.

The next step is the men who take things too far. Men who cat call to let you know they like your body or body parts. They approach you in a manner in which they think your name is Delicious and you work in a strip club. Your name isn't Delicious, and you aren't in a strip club, but they look you up and down, approach you like a common street whore, and then if you reject their advances, you then become ugly and unwanted. I've heard more than once by men who I refused to give my number to "Didn't no one want your ugly ass anyway!"

You then have the straight up crazy folks. The people who actually grab you. The ones who rub various body parts as you walk by. This is the stuff that scares me. This is the stuff that gets me running from folks.

These men are who I worry about. The men who can't handle being ignored or rejected. The men who are nice when they are talking about your chest, but mean as hell when they realize talking about your chest isn't going to get a phone number. The men who start yelling, the men who get in your face, the men who attack you when you don't respond, or worse yet say "no thank you." No matter if you are cordial and rude in your response, they are rude and downright angry in their response. It seems that sometimes it even ends in murder. No one should be shot for not giving out their phone number.

A lot of websites have popped up to stop street harassment, including folks putting up photos, but in some instances, that has been dangerous. How do women protect themselves? How do we as a society learn that women are here for more than the pleasure and appeasement of men?

29 comments:

graphixie said...

Thank you for posting these videos. The first I have seen, but I especially like the last two because they include black men. I loved that the male interviewer in the 2nd video asked that guy how long he catcalled and if it ever worked. Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results?

If someone's on the phone, what makes you think she'll stop talking to that person for some random she doesn't know? "If I didn't say anything, what the f*** do yo think that means?"

These videos are great, and it's nice to see that BM were involved in making both videos - you get different sides of the story, and ultimately highlight the issue of street harassment.

American Black Chick in London said...

Great videos. The first one I've seen, the other two I haven't. I thought the 3rd video was especially interesting since it went inside the heads of both the man and the woman. However, I seriously doubt if guys who respond to someone who's not interested by calling her a "ho" is thinking "wow, I wish I'd handled that better." At least the guy in the second video attempted to be respectful when he tried to pick up women (no derogatory names, no trying to holler at girls even after they said they had a boyfriend), but I agree with graphixie, why do the same thing for years without success and expect it to succeed?

Lauren said...

I think that it is important to remember that at times these techniques ARE successful. They do work on SOME women. I have seen it in action myself. Some women respond to things I would never respond to with more than a, "No thank you!"

I think what bothers me is that it seems as if the violence has gotten much more volatile. Ignoring a man can now be a death sentence. Especially if you outright reject their advances. Was it always like this? If not, when did it shift? I imagine sometime around the peak of gangsta rap? Anyone know?

Ronica said...

Suffice it to say, living in NYC, you get subway harassment and not from the homeless...lol But, luckily, my harassment has been minimal. My worst encounter so far was when I came up the staircase of the subway into Manhattan. I barely stepped on the sidewalk and he was in my face. He had me livid. The thought he could touch and rub his dirty hands on me and not know who the hell I was pissed me off even moreso. His excuse when I told him to chill wit dat shit, was "You from Jamaica, where your ppl from? I'm Jamaican." etc. Like if I was Jamaican that would make it okay for him to touch my body!? Respect is not in any of their vocabulary. Period.

Ehav Ever said...

Siditty Wrote
How do women protect themselves? How do we as a society learn that women are here for more than the pleasure and appeasement of men?

Ehav Ever's Response
Concerning your first question there are several different methods that can be considered. Women can protect themselves by learning how to defend themselves. This may consist of learning how to handle verbal and physical confrontation through martial arts training, specifically self defense orientated forms. Women can also start holding community meetings with like minded men to inform them (the like minded men) of the situation, and setup community watch groups. Women can move out of areas or not frequent areas where there is a higher percentage chance of such things happening. This would consist of moving into a community orientated neighborhood, where neighbors look out for each other. I once lived in a neighborhood where men looked out for widows, single women, and single mothers. It was a closed off neighborhood and the various families were involved in one another. I remember 1 or 2 incidents where a women in the neighborhood was threatened and the men in the community came out in her defense.

Concerning your second question, also several similar methods can be considered. Women can get invovled in local schools to try and reach young boys before they are influenced, and give them strong positive images of women. In some situations, where the culture supports it, marriage mindedness can be promoted amongst the youth. I.e. cut them off at the pass. Start afterschool programs to teach both young boys and young girls the reality of relationships, and how to approach or not approach each other. Also, organize married men to work with young boys in the local communities in order to give them a better image.

Also, concerning that last video, I doubt that the guys who are making those kind of cat calls are actually thinking the way the guy in the video was. I think the guys that make those kind of cat calls think they are 100% correct from the jump, and have no concern for the rejection they may receive and simply doing so because they believe that they can't be rejected or they are trying to show off. In any case, it doesn't matter what the perspective is on that side. His actions and persepective were wrong. He was a regular guy he simply would have either learned how to read signals and simply stayed away, knowing that she was not giving off signals of interest or he would have approached in a professional mannor accepted what ever response she gave and moved on.

Ehav Ever said...

Graphixie wrote:
Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results? "If I didn't say anything, what the f*** do yo think that means?"

Ehav Ever's Response:
As a guy who once, in my younger years, tried for a short while to play the role I can give you a few reasons. Many of the guys who are doing these things are simply playing out roles that they have seen and that they think are successful ways to express manhood. In some cases it has nothing to really even do with the woman, but with the man's warped view of how to exert his manhood. The woman, for those kinds of men, are simply one tool to exert his manhood to himself and to his peers.

In some cases these guys are acting out when they are around other males so that they can show that they have the ability to exert their manhood. Some of those kinds of guys would not know what to do if the women accepted their advances. Many of them, I have found, are simply big scared male children with no sense of direction. A lot of the guys I remember from that time were all talk, and it was important to show off in front of other males in order to be perceived as Alpha males. I remember, for about a year in high school, I hung out with guys in that environment and we spent our summers trying to find girls that were putting out, 99% of the time not finding anyone but acting like we had. If they were rejected, the only response was to try and playing it off to be the man. If it was successful some of us didn't know what to do with it.

I remember how, during that short phase of my life, I hung around a group of guys who were without a form of community molding. I started hanging around guys like this when my mother moved us to the suburbs because I was used to be in a tight knit community and we moved to suburb where I had no role models. After living there for 5 years I never met about 90% of the people who lived there. So I rebelled against my family culture and grapped onto anything that gave me a sense of belonging. I did this thinking that I was going to be happy, but no matter what I did I was never happy for long. It was basically living for the moment, and I was at least able to recognize it, but I didn't know what to do about it. Other guys I was around didn't recognize it and some never moved on from it.

Most of the boys I was around at that time were never to the extreme in the videos shown, but we may have been the precursor to such, just as there was a precursor to our behavior. What broke me out of all of that was when I sat down in my room alone with the door closed at 17 and saw how my life had no meaning, and how I was basically alone in a fake world that was not of my own creation. I saw how I didn't have any real friends, and the people who I thought were my friends I didn't really fit in with. I also had someone I respected tell me that my actions were messing up my family name, and thus I had to make a decision.

So one day I made my decision and I showed up in my class the next day and I told my then group of friends that I couldn't be around them anymore. I told them that I had to get my life together. None of them understaood at that time, but I never the less walked away. Once I heard my mother on the phone with one of her friends about how one day I came out of my room and I was a completely different person. I heard her saying she didn't know what had happened in there, but that I came out for the better.

Ehav Ever said...

Cont'd
After that point, EVERYTHING in my life changed, including how I dealt with women. That doesn't mean that I always understood women, even to this day I admit that I don't know as much as I once thought I did, but once I made a firm decision to get myself on track in all areas, how I dealt with people in general improved. Once I immersed myself in my own culture I began to understand that what I really wanted from the start was ONE woman who understood me and my complexities and was willing to deal with me where I am. Because of the mistep I made in my behavior way back at that age between 15-17 I missed on three women who may have been the right one's because I had spent so much time (15-17) looking in the wrong direction. In the end when I did an analyze of what I was doing with my life I realized the error in my ways, and I made corrective actions.

Golden Silence said...

I would love to know what makes these men so angry to the point of violence when a woman rejects them. I also want to know what these men, who are usually doing nothing but hanging out on a corner with their pants sagging, with no job and no education, think they have to offer to the women who walk by. Those useless men (if I can even call them that) have the audacity to get offended when rejected. I wish I knew the answers.

Street harassment is too much a part of my life. I cannot be out of the house for even a few seconds without hearing "Hey, shorty!" or "Hey, baby!", being followed in cars by these men, or even threatened with violence for rejecting them. I'm trying to figure out how "Not interested" justifies a "F*** you, b****!" Something severe has happened to this subclass of men for them to behave like this.

What I don't like about street harassment is that we women are being told what we're supposed to do to not make these men mad, but no one ever tells these men to stop harassing. Why should I have to watch what I do or say to keep some Neanderthal from bothering me? This is not a woman's world.

Here's a clip from a doc-in-progress about street harassment: Back Up! Concrete Diaries

roslynholcomb said...

This is yet another benefit of being a woman of a 'certain age.' For the most part the street harassment has stopped for me, but I still remember being terrified as a young girl by adult men talking filth out from under my clothes. It definitely impacted my interactions with men, and to this day, I rarely make eye contact with men outside of certain social situations.

S said...

I agree with golden silence, why do people always tell women what WE need to do in order for MEN to stop harassing us?
All i hear is "take self defense classes, use peppar spray, just smile and go along with it, ignore him,move to another neighbourhood", sigh.
Please rest my head by saying what MEN should do instead for other MEN to stop harassing women period.

it's a blame the victim symptom i keep seeing everywhere and it is incredibly sickening and frightening.
I see this kind of thing with rape victims.

"well you shouldn't have worn those shorts, afterall, that IS an open invitation for rape...oh you didn't know? well you do now!"

And to the person who said that for some harassers their approach actually works - well, ofcourse there is always that exception but the MAJORITY of women do NOT like it, obviously.
it's not about what "works", these men aren't looking for a date, it's power play, especially when it comes to BM/BW. They want to make sure you know your place and it's all about showing you that you are beneath them. They know you don't like their approach but they want to see how far they can take it and if you smile (and believe you me they know it's a fake smile and they know that is a frightened face plastered on you) it means they have succeeded on frightening you and putting you in your place.
if you don't fake it they get angry because it means you don't feel as if you are beneath them or feel the need to make them at ease and they have failed on putting you in your place.

graphixie said...

Ehav Ever, I appreciate your side of the story and your ideas about getting BM involved, however, I agree with S in that there is only so much re-arranging of one's life a woman can do before enough is enough. I shouldn't have to walk some 3-4 blocks out of my way, or spend money on a bunch of safety equipment or special training because some idiot can't keep his d*** in his pants long enough to show a woman some respect when she walks by.

Self Defense is for women who are actually attacked. I haven't heard of a course that teaches women how to make it MORE CLEAR to the creep-o outside the grocery story that I'm not interested in screwing him or being his personal stripper. I don't understand how hard it is to grasp the concept that if someone is NOT EVEN LOOKING at you, that you should not go up to them and ask them to have sex with you.

Luckily Ehav, you were able to recognize that the life you were living wasn't taking you where you wanted to be, but I just wonder what kind of wake up call it will take for these guys to get their s*** together. I just don't understand how that 21yr old was catcalling for how ever many years, and he's STILL standing there, convinced that what he's doing works.

Ehav Ever said...

Greetings S,

The reason why I posted what women would have to do is because the problem being discussed affects women in a completely different way than it does men. The question was also posed by a women.

I already know what the solution is for men to do, and that is something that I have seen men doing. I talked about this on a prior post on this blog.

Besides I gave a number of different solutions, not just one. All the suggestions I made are not inclusive and are not exclusive.

As has been said before on this blog if women are waiting for men to solve thee problems more than likely that is not going to happen. At least not for the majority of women. Without a PHYSICAL community that is established within women can be protected there is very little any man can do to protect a women who is no where near his community.

There is very little a man in Brooklyn can do to protect a woman who lives in Oakland, CA. They are seperated by a lot of distance and they are not a part of the same PHYSICAL community. Now if a woman is harrassed within Brooklyn and a man happens to witness it, then yes he is there and he can do something about it.

Yet, if he does not come in contact with cat calling men who harress women or the women who are being harressed there is very little he can do. Thus, logically, the only real solution, at least intially can only come from the women who are affected.

Now if said women have husbands or boyfriends, that is a different story. Said husband or boyfriend can get invovled because he has a connection to the victim. If she has male family members, they can also get involved. Yet, the only way they can know she was ever put in harm's way is if she informs them. Otherwise they would have no way of knowing.

Ehav Ever said...

S Wrote:
Please rest my head by saying what MEN should do instead for other MEN to stop harassing women period.

Ehav Ever's Response
So your question is what men can do to stop other men from harrassing other women. That is easy, but once again the only way for a man to know what to do is when he is informed by a women of the incidents (who, where, and when).

Personally, I consider any man that would harress a women an enemy. As anyone who has ever had an enemy knows, most enemies can't be reasoned with and they only fear or respect a superior show of force. Thus my male driven solutions are the following.

A) A group of men can form a community task force to patrol their local community for predators/harrassors and expel them from their communities.

B) Groups of men can volunteer to escort women through areas where there is a threat to the women's safety and honor.

C) Men who know martial arts and self defense can volunteer to teach women how to defend themselves in case the woman is without a male escort.

D) Groups of men can literally declare war on men who harress women and confront (violently or non-violently) the men who harress women.

E) Men can volunteer to teach children at local schools in order to stear the male children away from one day becoming harressors and stear young girls away from accepting victimization. With no one to carry on in their tradition the harrassors would one day become extinct.

F) Groups of men can buy property and move into at risk areas where there is a lack of a protective male presence to protect women. Said men can then do A-E listed above.

G) Men can join city counsels and push legislation that severally punishes any man who would harress a woman.

So all of the above are serious male driven solutions, that can be done in conjunction with the female driven solutions I listed earlier. In the end the ONLY way to defeat harressing men is consider them the ENEMY. You don't reason with your enemies you confront them and plow right through them. That is because any person who would willingly harress someone the way we are talking about is not reasonable.

How do I know the above can work? Because I have seen a group of men and women do it before.

Ehav Ever said...

As a side note to my response to S. When I was in University during the time of the OJ Simpson trial when OJ was found not guilty white students at Texas A&M U. began to send death threats to African American students at the campus. In response the men of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. and several other fraternities began a program to escort African American women from their classes to their dorms.

Now it would have almost impossible for those men to implement such a program at for example Baylor University because Baylor was about 2.5 hours away. Thus the men at Texas A&M U. could only affect the protection of African American women at their own campus i.e. local community.

As I mentioned before I grew up in a neighborhood where the men were VERY protective of the women. Yet, it was a PHYSICAL COMMUNITY. Thus it was easier to protect women who you knew who they were, what their situation was, and you were in close proximity to them.

One of my mentors once told me how in past in my one of the communities my family was a part of that if a man ever disrespected a woman all of the men from her family and his would wake him up in the middle of the night and talk to him. If he listened and made changes to his behavior they would leave him alone. If he didn't they would beat him up every night until he either got with the program or left town.

That is the only approach I know to such a situation.

Ehav Ever said...

S Wrote:
I agree with golden silence, why do people always tell women what WE need to do in order for MEN to stop harassing us?
All i hear is "take self defense classes, use peppar spray, just smile and go along with it, ignore him,move to another neighbourhood", sigh.
Please rest my head by saying what MEN should do instead for other MEN to stop harassing women period.

Ehav Ever's Response:
The reason why I gave the type of solutions I gave at first, concerning woman driven solutions was because Siditty's first questions in her post was:

How do women protect themselves?

Thus I was answering the question that Siditty asked concerning how WOMEN can protect themselves. As a man I only know a FEW ways for a person to protect THEMSELVES. I don't beleive there is a magic formula for such things. I also believe that person who is intent on causing harm cannot be reasoned with and if a woman is without a male escort who can protect her she only has the recourses I listed.

If there are other recourses for an un-escorted woman I would love to hear them. Yet, if a protective male is not present she will have to know how to improvise and do the best she can to protect herself until she can find the proper re-enforcements.

No different than if I am in a bad area and I am unarmed I will need to know how to use all my other skills in order to protect my person and my honor.

Ehav Ever said...

Golden Silence wrote:
I would love to know what makes these men so angry to the point of violence when a woman rejects them. I also want to know what these men, who are usually doing nothing but hanging out on a corner with their pants sagging, with no job and no education, think they have to offer to the women who walk by. Those useless men (if I can even call them that) have the audacity to get offended when rejected. I wish I knew the answers.

Ehav Ever's response
The answer is easy. The men who live like the ones you described are not living as men. They are simple taking up space and are acting on almost low level human behavior. I.e. food, shelter, sex.

Some of their egos has been further bolstered by segments of society that praises that kind of behavoir. I remember how when that song Ruff Neck by MC Lyte came out praising that kind of man, there were some guys who got an ego boost. When the gangster rappers started imitating prison culture (for those who don't know sagging pants is believed to have been influenced from prison culture prisoners can't wear belts) that also boosted that kind of mindset.

In the end the men and women who buy into that type of culture in some case can't be reasoned with, and they do not act on logic. They just do based on the programming they have accepted.

As I said before for many of those men what they are doing is not 100% about the woman. It is about them expsosing and flaunting their hyper masculintiy to themselves or to other males. The woman to them is just a tool to faciliate their warped sense of reality.

To quote the Dark Knight: Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Aisha said...

S said:
"I agree with golden silence, why do people always tell women what WE need to do in order for MEN to stop harassing us?
All i hear is "take self defense classes, use peppar spray, just smile and go along with it, ignore him,move to another neighbourhood", sigh.
Please rest my head by saying what MEN should do instead for other MEN to stop harassing women period.

it's a blame the victim symptom i keep seeing everywhere and it is incredibly sickening and frightening."
____________________________________

I don't see these techniques as blaming the victim, I see them as survival. It puts you in control because you can defend yourself no matter who or what you encounter.

At the end of the day, why these men act the way they do is irrelevant once you are engaged in an unpleasant encounter them. The only thing that matters is trying to get away safely. I'm all for learning anything that will help me protect myself.

thelady said...

Every female over the age of 10 has experienced street harassment. Back in college when I had to walk everywhere it got so bad I started to avoid black men. One incident involved some black guy with green eyes approaching me and asking why I was acting brand new. I swear I had never seen this guy before in my life. He was cute but when I tried to diffuse the situation he continued to be confrontational. My female friend and I walked away and when our back was turned someone threw a football at us, it bounced on the ground next to us. After that I refused to walk pass that court without a male chaperon.

Yet when I try to talk to male friends about this form of harassment their first question is "what were you wearing". This lack of empathy hurts because this is guys I know, who saw me everyday, they know damn well I dress like a prude, and so what if I was dressed differently, that doesn't give someone the right to yell at me or threaten me. Clearly because I am female I couldn't possible have an accurate rational memory of the scenario.

Ehav Ever said...

graphixie wrote:
Ehav Ever, I appreciate your side of the story and your ideas about getting BM involved, however, I agree with S in that there is only so much re-arranging of one's life a woman can do before enough is enough. I shouldn't have to walk some 3-4 blocks out of my way, or spend money on a bunch of safety equipment or special training because some idiot can't keep his d*** in his pants long enough to show a woman some respect when she walks by.

Ehav Ever wrote:
Greetings Graphixie. I hope you are well. Again, I was not one solution, I was giving a body of solution. One solution may not work for every woman, but I think we can ALL agree there is a war on African American women. If we agree that there is a way, then unfortunately you have no choice but to fight it along side like minded people. The men who harress women are 95% of the time not going to stop simply because you want them to. They are not going to start respecting you just because it is the right thing to do. The fact that they are doing it, and if they are threatening, then either have completely lost their moral compass or they never had one to begin with.

If this is the case then you only have two options:

1) Accept it as it is.
2) Join with like minded people and fight back.

Once again, many of the guys who are harressing women are doing so because they are unreasonable people. Many of the women who either like or thrive on that sort behavior in some cases do because they are also unreasonable. So how do you reason with unreasonable people? You can't as long as they CHOOSE to be unreasonable. So that leaves with you with the two options I listed above.

Most people who have fight against injustice more than likely would have loved to have a simple life without any conflict. Yet, when a problem exists complaining about it changes nothing only standing up against it, no matter the cost, changes things. Look at any movement in history that has accomplished any real change. It only came about through the blood, sweat, and tears of those who fought for their rights and the rights of those who could not defend themselves.

I am sorry that fighting these kind of men requires a lifestyle change, yet IF these things are a problem then people willing to fight them will have to change. That is simply the reality, and until that reality can be changed those are your options. Yet, if African American women and liked minded people fight it NOW, maybe the next generation won't have to suffer under it.

I am sorry that in America a situation like this exists, but the fact that it exists requires that you take offensive and defensive measures. You are right that you shouldn't have to rearrange your life, I agree 100%. You shouldn't have to walk an extra 2-3 blocks to aviod confrontational men. YET, if these men exists and if REASONING with them at this point is unsuccessful you don't have many options. If the local men who witness these kinds of acts are not willing to fight these men (violently or non-violently) then African American have very LIMITED options all of which requires an adjustment.

I train in martial arts, and I do so because in a situation where someone could try to kill me, hurt me, or hurt other people in my community. So one day I decided that I was tired of being a victim to unreasonable people. WHY? Because I remember various times when unreasonable people harrassed me, and I remember their mere existance forced me to have to take action. I either had to accept my victimhood or train myself to make them pay if they infringed on my rights, my person, or to those I care about.

Ehav Ever said...

graphixie wrote:
Self Defense is for women who are actually attacked. I haven't heard of a course that teaches women how to make it MORE CLEAR to the creep-o outside the grocery story that I'm not interested in screwing him or being his personal stripper. I don't understand how hard it is to grasp the concept that if someone is NOT EVEN LOOKING at you, that you should not go up to them and ask them to have sex with you.

Ehav Ever wrote:
Actually, any good self defense course deals with not just being attacked physically, but also how to diffuse or avoid confrontation (verbal, harressment, etc.). The hope in any self defense course is that you NEVER have to use what you learn. Yet, if you are confronted with a fight or flight situation having the right training can help you make the right choice.

As I said before you can't reason with these kind of men because they are not trying to be reasonable. As I said before, many of them are not doing these things for the sake of the woman. They are doing it for THEMSELVES, THEIR EGOS, AND THE ATTENTION OF THEIR MALE FRIENDS. Now you can see WHY many of the males who do these kind of things could care less about what YOU want. It all about what HE wants.That is why if you don't respond the way he wants he may become violent, because he has no moral compass.

That is why I left those kinds of friends behind because I grew up with a moral compass that I was trying to avoid. The more I tried to avoid it the more fake I became. I also had a point come where I saw where that was going to lead. I.e. at some point that behavior becomes learned and that is when the next generation takes it a step further. So I woke up because I already had a foundation to wake up to. Some people can totally reject that foundation, and others never had it to begin with.

For example, I have been reading a book called On Combat. The author, who was in special forces and trains military, police, etc, told a story of a police officer who prepared his entire family for possible situations that could bring violence to their front door. He knew that when trouble hits his wife always would try to grab his arm. So he trained with her to make sure to grab his left arm so he could use his right arm to go for his weapon and defend her. He also taught and trained with her to get behind him if someone begins shooting so that he can respond and act as a shield for her. He then trained with her for her to run and use his police raido to call for help while he draws the enemy fire away from her. He knew that the only way for them to deal with their reality was to TRAIN and PREPARE together. WHY? Because of his work and their location there was a possibility of confrontation coming to their doorstep. The book goes to talk about an incident where the couple was in a store where a robber pulled a gun. The officer's wife grabbed his left arm and got behind him, he drew his gun and exchanged fire with the suspect, he wife then ran with his police radio to call for help while he drew the suspect's fire. They both came out alive because they recognized the reality that existed and trained for it.

It would be preferable that no person ever have to use such training, or change their lifestyle in order to save or protect their own life. Yet, IF someone is willing to threaten you YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. As a man, I am tellin you that I UNDERSTAND that there is a war against AA women. I know it because I have seen it from the male side, before and after it got to its current level. So I am simply telling you that you have VERY FEW OPTIONS, that do not include a change in your own way of doing things. I am sorry that this is the reality, but is the reality I saw coming before I left America.

Ehav Ever said...

When talking about the solutions I presented earlier, I am talking from experience. From my childhood up into my college years various people used to see me as weak. Thus I was picked on until I learned how to (physically and verbally) defend myself.

Concerning harrassing men, I have seen this behavior up front having been attacked (physically and verbally) because some people saw me as weak in my younger years. I was once almost attacked by a group of guys who were in the same fraternity as me, but from a different school. They claimed to that they didn't believe that I was part of the fraternity. Even though they were a rouge chapter and many of them had pledged illagally. They asked me question after question after question, and even though I answered 99% of their charge up questions there was 1, that was actually disputed information, they claimed that I didn't know anything. I later found out that they had been plotting on me the night before because they saw I was alone, and they considered me weak.

I remember trying to reason with one of them, and when I put my hand on his shoulder to try to talk reason to him slapped my hand away and said, Get your $#@@ hand off of me. I pledged way before you. You can't tell me anything. One of them even yelled out You want to fight? I say we beat him up and take his fraternity paraphanalia. There about 15 of them, and 1 of me and NO ONE stood up for me. There were two guys who were from the local school who tried to defend, a little bit, but they did nothing to stand with me or defened me. At that time I didn't know how to defend myself, and I was afraid. So I did nothing, and they took some of my fraternity paraphanalia. They paraded around in front of everyone with the things they took from me, and only a few people came to comfort me. I remember watching those guys do their little victory dance with my stuff wishing that I had some kind of weapon to use against them, but having no way to reacquire he manhood that they stole from me.

I felt really bad after this had happened and I blamed myself. Maybe if I had just not gone to that particular event, maybe if I had not gone alone, maybe if I had just left instead of going to that picnic, maybe if I had just never joined a fraternity and stayed in my own world, or maybe if I had just continued to train in Karate when I was kid none of these things would have happened. I felt like I was right back in high school during freshman day, as I described in another post.

When the word of what happened reached my chapter of the fraternity, people who had issues with me to begin with, made fun of me called me weak and made it out to be my fault for being weak. So I had to make a decision. I decided to go internal and pretty much not involve myself with my chapter and the guys who harressed me. I had to make an etire lifestyle change because of a group of people who would not listen to reason, they didn't care about my feelings, nor would they back down. So I had to learn a lesson that had been brewing earlier in my life.

I remembered that they were no different than the bullies in my past. I remember once a bus driver, in my youth, who saw that I was being picked on a lot by other kids because I was not like them. He knew my mother, and one day he gave me a knife. He said to me, Don't be afraid. Take it and if those kids continue to harress you this way you pull it out and if you have to you use it. Of course my mother had strong words for him when she found out I had been given a knife to defend myself with. Yet, he did have a valuable point. A situation existed where I couldn't reason with those kids. I HAD to make a change to my lifestyle because I learned that there existed whom I could not reason with.

I realized that it didn't matter WHY they were doing it. The fact that they were willing to go there required that I deal with the reality as it is. That is why I started training for physical and non-physical confrontations so that I no longer had to be the one walking around in fear.

Ehav Ever said...

graphixie wrote:
I just wonder what kind of wake up call it will take for these guys to get their s*** together. I just don't understand how that 21yr old was catcalling for how ever many years, and he's STILL standing there, convinced that what he's doing works.

Ehav Ever's response:
Once again you are looking at it from the wrong angle. The guys who are doing this, are more than naught, not trying to get their s*** together. WHY because in their world their s*** is together. The rejection comes par for the course with the behavoir they go hand in hand with the ego issues I mentioned earlier.

You have to erase from mind that these guys are doing this because of the women. In my opinion, they are doing it for their own glofication to themselves and in front of their buddies.

Concerning the 21 year old guy. As has been stated before, no rational person does something that has a low success rate. So either what he was doing is succesful enough for his purposes, OR he is only doing it for his own gratification.

At some point you may have to accept in life that there are just some people who don't care. As that saying I mentioned before goes.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

As I said before I am sorry that this is the reality, but it is.

Yanmommasaid said...

I agree with what Ehav said, In some cases it has nothing to really even do with the woman, but with the man's warped view of how to exert his manhood. The woman, for those kinds of men, are simply one tool to exert his manhood to himself and to his peers.

A lot of these men have no authentic masculinity so they deal in substitutes for it. I am a man based on how many women I sleep with, how I dress and what I own, how hard I am all the time (too hard to smile in a photograph). Because they lack real masculinity they are always hypersensitive to any perceived threat to their manliness and sometimes this means they feel justified in killing women for "disrespecting" their manhood by rejecting them. Who says we don't have honor killings in America?

I have not had any bad incidents occur to me and this may be b/c 1. I have luckily never encountered anyone who tried to get physical and 2. I have usually smiled, laughed, and kept walking and when pressed said that I was living with my boyfriend who was super jealous. I even thought about getting a fake engagement ring for a while. But I see the folly of this approach is that it doesn't convey the impression that this is wrong and that "not interested" is sufficient and probably even encourages them. :(

Anyway, to Ehav THANK YOU for being one of the few black men to speak on the topic and to acknowledge it is a serious problem. The lack of concern and intervention by other black men is one of the main reasons it is not going to stop.

graphixie said...

Ehav, that was my favorite quote from Dark Knight. For whatever reason it just stuck out. You bring up great points arguments for learning defense, and how catcalling with those irrational guys (I'm not going to call them men) is merely a numbers/ego game. Protect yourself, however you can, because you have to. You shouldn't have to, but that's just the world we live in.

S said...

Unfortunately this isn't an american thing.
I live in London and it happens here and i'm pretty sure it happens in every major city when it comes to BW. Men seem to think it's ok to treat BW this way because i have yet to see WW or non BW be harassed like this although i do know it happens but i don't believe as much as BW.

I think it's the image peole have of BW as less than women and there for it's OK to harass us in the middle of the day on an open street with people passing by.

Unless that image of us changes i doubt things will change.
First we have to free ourselves from that stereotype which isn't easy and also we have to make people aware of the fact that it is NOT ok and we WILL take legal action if necessary.

I encourage BW to call the police if being harassed.
Harassers must fear harassing us and be afraid of the consequences of harassing someone.
I agree that these idiots can't be reasoned with but i can't walk around with peppar spray everywhere heck in some places it's illegal to have peppar spray, and it's only so much self defense classes we can take when a harassers have a gun or a knife waving in our faces.
There must be stricter laws against harassing, it is a crime after all.

I would like to see the police get involved more and take these things more seriously.

laromana said...

Ehav,
Thanks for being a BM who stands up for the defense of BW against ANTI-BW HATER BM.

S.,
I heartily agree with you that BW need to involve the police (and take ANY other available LEGAL means) against harassers. ANTI-BW harrassers need to LEARN that there will be a HEAVY PRICE to pay for their ANTI-BW CRIMINAL ACTIONS.

Golden Silence said...

People need to band together and stand against this nonsense. Another reason why this is allowed is because there are people standing by watching this mess happen, either because they're too chickenmess scared to take action, they think it's entertaining (horrible) or they're simply indifferent. You don't need to get physically involved if you see this crap going on, but please call the police or something.

I do notice when I take my phone out to call the police the harassers don't take me seriously, but believe me I'll call them in a heartbeat. (Or I get some idiots who think I'm pulling out a gun when I'm reaching for my cell phone and start running. Losers.)

This hideous behavior should no longer be accepted as the normal way to treat women. I'm sick of raggedy men talking to me as if I'm a piece of trash, simply because I'm a Black woman.

Ehav Ever said...

No problem ladies. Just doing my duty.

Anonymous said...

You all ahve the nerve to whine about white people and the image of the 'black male predator' yet turn around and do the SAME thing yourselves!! Please and this whole rappers singlehandely INVENTED sexism and misogyny is getting OLD with a capital O. Right because there is just NO other form of entertainment that treats women that way. Certainly not the mainstream or the white males you gush and fawn over all the damn time it just NEVER happens with them!